Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Alternator / Charging issue ()
2. 05:11 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Chuck Jensen)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Brett Ferrell)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (SteinAir, Inc.)
7. 07:59 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Chuck Jensen)
8. 08:18 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:35 AM - Re: KX-155 / KT-76A pin wiring & antennas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:40 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
11. 08:52 AM - Re: Alternator / Charging issue (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:54 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
13. 09:19 AM - Off Subject - Barry Controls Engine Mounts (Bill Bradburry)
14. 11:09 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (John W. Cox)
15. 11:21 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 11:55 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Peter Pengilly)
17. 01:09 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 02:06 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (sam@fr8dog.net)
19. 06:45 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Henador Titzoff)
20. 07:05 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Henador Titzoff)
21. 07:42 PM - IFR GPS requirements (William Gill)
22. 08:05 PM - Re: Alternator / Charging issue (William Gill)
23. 08:17 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 08:22 PM - OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (vozzen)
25. 08:49 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 01/14/08 (Jeff Page)
26. 09:12 PM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Ron Quillin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alternator / Charging issue |
1/15/2008
Hello Steve, Suggest that you check the wiring, particularly the ground
wire, on your voltage regulator.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
----------------------------------------------
Time: 06:36:07 PM PST US
From: Steve Reeves <sreeves@gw.med.sc.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator / Charging issue
A while back my alternator decided to start cycling on and off every
now and again, mostly when under load. It will never do it during a
day flight, and only during the day when running strobes. I can
induce it at night fairly easily sometimes with the navs, fuel pump,
landing light, and panel lights (no strobes needed..they seem able to
induce the problem by themselves). I was returning from Miss. a few
nights ago and it decided to do this. I shut down the strobes and
everything was fine (as usual). I turned the strobes back on and the
last 30 min or so of the flight was uneventful.
I installed a new B&C battery yesterday and the problem occurred
again yesterday evening 1 time near the beginning of the flight, and
more so on the ground after I landed and had the engine at idle
power. I stayed in the pattern since I had a "known" electrical issue.
Here are few things I may have forgotten to mention, and I can't be
sure if this could be a cause of my problem.
2) I notice both my EI voltmeter as well as the Dynon (backup to my
gyro ;) ) are reporting about 13.5V when in flight. I would assume
this should be around 14.5 or so. I think before this problem it
did. Funny the little things you start to notice when you actually
have a problem.
3) The main problem is that if under load, the system will "shut
down" the charging system intermittently and then come back
online. Sometimes in a rapid (5 secs or so) succession or sometimes
in more erratic unpredictable intervals. Like the flight back the
other night, it acted up then stayed online for the remainder of the
flight. I'll see the voltage annunciator come on and the voltage
drop to 11.8 or 12...then it will go back up to 13.5. It may stay
for a while...the remainder of the flight...or maybe 10 secs. It's crazy.
I thought I had the alternator tested at one time and was told it was fine.
I also just replaced my main solenoid (it was going bad..wouldn't
connect when I turned the master on). That's fine now, but that
didn't help the problem either.
This problem is driving me crazy. Any and all input would be appreciated.
I'm almost convinced I'm never going to find the root if this
thing. Thanks again.
Steve Reeves
Glasair 38SR
Message 2
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Bruce,
The experiences reported by others are just data bits. It's up to the
recipient to determine whether the props or reported dings apply to
their situation or not. One is free to discount the comments of all
others. The advantage of doing so is the opportunity to relearn the
same lessons they have already learned. If I recall correctly, that's
why history keeps repeating itself.
Certainly, because someone reports something about a product or person
doesn't make it a fact or an opinion, but simply information to
consider, digest and factor into one's own actions. That reporting is
one of the most valuable aspects of these lists. That reporting is one
of the reasons I bought dual GRT EFIS--because of the feature set,
reputation of delivering on promised upgrades and excellent customer
support; all of which I have found to be accurate.
You are certainly welcome to ignore outside information, but one does so
at their own peril and pain.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Peters
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product!
You know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to
listen to anyone else cause it nust be true!
On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell < bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
bferrell@123mail.net <mailto:bferrell@123mail.net> >
Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been satisfied. I
think
that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
functionality, but
I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
can
mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the option
of
perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
Brett
www.velocityxl.com <http://www.velocityxl.com/>
Quoting Mike < mlas@cox.net>:
>
> Henador,
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
> are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
> written four posts today on this subject on two different sites. I
have
> been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
> between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
> what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
> then BMA is not for you....
>
> Mike
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
I'm missing something here, Bruce. As I said, I HAVE owned (and still do) the
product, you can see pictures of it on my website (listed below), so I'm not
sure how this message is relevant. Or, were you not trying to make a relevant
point??
http://www.velocityxl.com/EFIS_one.JPG
B
Quoting Bruce Peters <rv9aplane@gmail.com>:
> Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product! You
> know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to listen to
> anyone else cause it nust be true!
>
> On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell <bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
>
> > bferrell@123mail.net>
> >
> > Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been satisfied. I
> > think
> > that for the price, they offer the most capable and current functionality,
> > but
> > I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
> > can
> > mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the option of
> > perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
> > discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
> >
> > Brett
> > www.velocityxl.com
> >
> > Quoting Mike <mlas@cox.net>:
> >
> > >
> > > Henador,
> > >
> > > I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
> > > are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
> > > written four posts today on this subject on two different sites. I have
> > > been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
> > > between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
> > > what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
> > > then BMA is not for you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Bruce,
I have a BMA EFIS, I=92ll sell it to you for half price!
What I think is funny, is that people who don=92t have one want to
support
it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it and are
forced to love it. I just want to keep people informed and keep them
from make the same mistake others including myself have made. The BMA
product looks good on paper. When I started looking at it I saw the
problems with the original product and the second generation product. I
used some of the same deduction and reasoning that has been exhibited
here on this site. I said self, they should have their shit together by
the third iteration and the price should be right. The whole time the
product litterateur got prettier and prettier. Well it doesn=92t work!
The screens freeze up, the unit crashes, most of the info coming from
the probes on the engine system is not correct, the database they use is
not certified(this may have changed recently), and their product support
in a word sucks (It=92s the worst in the industry). Caveat emptor!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Peters
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product!
You know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to
listen to anyone else cause it nust be true!
On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell <HYPERLINK
"mailto:bferrell@123mail.net"bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
"mailto:bferrell@123mail.net"bferrell@123mail.net >
Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been satisfied. I
think
that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
functionality, but
I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
can
mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the option
of
perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
Brett
HYPERLINK "http://www.velocityxl.com/" \nwww.velocityxl.com
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Chuck,
Well said!
Mike
Ps- How=92s the GRT system treating you?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:09 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Bruce,
The experiences reported by others are just data bits. It's up to the
recipient to determine whether the props or reported dings apply to
their situation or not. One is free to discount the comments of all
others. The advantage of doing so is the opportunity to relearn the
same lessons they have already learned. If I recall correctly, that's
why history keeps repeating itself.
Certainly, because someone reports something about a product or person
doesn't make it a fact or an opinion, but simply information to
consider, digest and factor into one's own actions. That reporting is
one of the most valuable aspects of these lists. That reporting is one
of the reasons I bought dual GRT EFIS--because of the feature set,
reputation of delivering on promised upgrades and excellent customer
support; all of which I have found to be accurate.
You are certainly welcome to ignore outside information, but one does so
at their own peril and pain.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Peters
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product!
You know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to
listen to anyone else cause it nust be true!
On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell <HYPERLINK
"mailto:bferrell@123mail.net"bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
"mailto:bferrell@123mail.net"bferrell@123mail.net >
Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been satisfied. I
think
that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
functionality, but
I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
can
mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the option
of
perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
Brett
HYPERLINK "http://www.velocityxl.com/" \nwww.velocityxl.com
Quoting Mike <HYPERLINK "mailto:mlas@cox.net"mlas@cox.net>:
"mailto:mlas@cox.net"mlas@cox.net>
>
> Henador,
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
> are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
> written four posts today on this subject on two different sites. I
have
> been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
> between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
> what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
> then BMA is not for you....
>
> Mike
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind your BMA?
Cheers,
Stein
do not archive
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brett
>Ferrell
>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:44 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
>
>
><bferrell@123mail.net>
>
>I'm missing something here, Bruce. As I said, I HAVE owned (and
>still do) the
>product, you can see pictures of it on my website (listed below),
>so I'm not
>sure how this message is relevant. Or, were you not trying to
>make a relevant
>point??
>
>http://www.velocityxl.com/EFIS_one.JPG
>
>B
>
>Quoting Bruce Peters <rv9aplane@gmail.com>:
>
>> Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the
>product! You
>> know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to listen to
>> anyone else cause it nust be true!
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell <bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
>>
>> > bferrell@123mail.net>
>> >
>> > Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been
>satisfied. I
>> > think
>> > that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
>functionality,
>> > but
>> > I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
>> > can
>> > mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have
>the option of
>> > perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
>> > discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
>> >
>> > Brett
>> > www.velocityxl.com
>> >
>> > Quoting Mike <mlas@cox.net>:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Henador,
>> > >
>> > > I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
>> > > are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
>> > > written four posts today on this subject on two different
>sites. I have
>> > > been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
>> > > between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
>> > > what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
>> > > then BMA is not for you....
>> > >
>> > > Mike
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Mike,
I'm certainly satisfied with the GRT EFIS and the "service experience."
At one time, GRT was way ahead in features with ability to fly coupled
approaches, maps overlays and what all....many of the things BMA
promised but never delivered (and no, I don't own a BMA, but that
doesn't mean I can't have an opinion!). The main ding on GRT was the
low resolution of the display. The display was not as beautiful as a
BMA, but then, it would consistently boot up and not go dark--a good
tradeoff.
They have responded to concern about display resolution by shipping a
higher resolution display next month that is a little bigger and, no
surprise, costs a little more, but they will upgrade previous units for
a reasonably fair cost. The higher resolution, reported to be a good
looker, should be helpful in displaying maps, obstructions, wx,
airports, et al. When that many details were shown on the lo-res units,
readability did become a bit of an issue.
In sum, even though not bullet proof (even the certified units aren't),
I believe GRT is an excellent choice and a good value for the offered
feature set with excellent service to back it up. With that said, there
are several competing systems that are also very good and if the price,
aesthetics and features strike your fancy, they will do well for you
also. With all the new choices available, life-is-good.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Chuck,
Well said!
Mike
Ps- How=92s the GRT system treating you?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:09 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Bruce,
The experiences reported by others are just data bits. It's up to the
recipient to determine whether the props or reported dings apply to
their situation or not. One is free to discount the comments of all
others. The advantage of doing so is the opportunity to relearn the
same lessons they have already learned. If I recall correctly, that's
why history keeps repeating itself.
Certainly, because someone reports something about a product or person
doesn't make it a fact or an opinion, but simply information to
consider, digest and factor into one's own actions. That reporting is
one of the most valuable aspects of these lists. That reporting is one
of the reasons I bought dual GRT EFIS--because of the feature set,
reputation of delivering on promised upgrades and excellent customer
support; all of which I have found to be accurate.
You are certainly welcome to ignore outside information, but one does so
at their own peril and pain.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Peters
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product!
You know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to
listen to anyone else cause it nust be true!
On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell < bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
bferrell@123mail.net <mailto:bferrell@123mail.net> >
Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been satisfied. I
think
that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
functionality, but
I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
can
mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the option
of
perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
Brett
www.velocityxl.com <http://www.velocityxl.com/>
Quoting Mike < mlas@cox.net>:
>
> Henador,
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
> are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
> written four posts today on this subject on two different sites. I
have
> been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
> between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
> what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
> then BMA is not for you....
>
> Mike
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
- The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
At 08:31 PM 1/14/2008 -0500, you wrote:
><sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
>
>I've been in the aircraft business as long as most people on this list,and
>I've never head as many complaints about any other vender as Blue
>Mountain. Why don't you just blow off the advice of this list,and go ahead
>and buy there product, then tell us were wrong! :-)
>Sam
What we're witnessing here is a "snowstorm" of
anecdotal data and the attempts by many to deduce
a "degree of goodness" for a product based on
analysis of that data.
In the TC aircraft world, we rely on repeatable
experiments that put a product through a representative
set of tests that benchmark performance.
These tests are completely independent of the
producer's talents for design, manufacturing and
customer service.
Complaints are valuable information but must be
sorted for relevance to (1) science or (2)
business model. The world's most elegant product
is worthless when it cannot be supported by
quality workmanship and honorable marketing.
On the other hand, many a marginal and/or
even dangerous product has gained a marketplace
toe-hold when manufactured and promoted by
persuasive individuals. Just watch late night
TV for a host of examples for the later class
of merchandise.
We've all heard less than complimentary reports
about Blue Mountain. I've received numerous
stories from knowledgeable system integrators,
pilots and marketing folks who had nothing
but good wishes for success of this product. They
wanted to sell it as a supporting system in their
own airframes.
All of these stories are dated. I would hope
that Blue Mountain's longevity in the marketplace
has more to do with IMPROVEMENTS to both their
science and marketing than for an ability to
squeeze, bottle and sell snake-oil.
When evaluating the usefulness of anecdotal data
from the field, one would do well to view that
data through the filters of reasonableness. Does
the data item make sense? The data items need to
be sorted into two piles: (1) science and (2)
production, marketing and customer service. Finally,
one is well advised to deduce the story teller's
intent . . . informative, humorous, persuasive
or simply hurtful.
If this sounds like more effort and skill
than most of us are able to bring to the argument,
the risk to value for participating in such
discussions becomes obvious. It's an fundamental
element of human nature that individuals with unhappy
experiences will tend toward persuasive words
intended to hurt. But without knowing the
simple-ideas which support an individual's
experience, the intent and value of their words
is not calculable.
I hope individuals who wish to contribute
to the List's collective knowledge and understanding
will do a bit of pre-filtering for their own words
before committing them to the archives. Try to be
informative as to fact and the outcomes of repeatable
experiments. Avoid passing on information that
was not observed/experienced first hand.
Whether you support or disfavor a product or service,
be specific as to the PERSONAL command of facts
upon which you've based your opinion.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: KX-155 / KT-76A pin wiring & antennas |
At 09:37 AM 1/14/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I am attempting to install a KX-155 (no GS) and KT-76A in my Zenith CH701
>project. I have the pin wiring diagrams from Bendix/King showing what pin
>does what, but I'm confused about the pin labeling.
>
>I referenced Bob's site at
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KX155.pdf and
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KT76A-76C-78A.pdf
>
>but my unit has a different number of pins. My A1 board is only 15 pins
>and the A2 board is 11 pins. How are the pins labeled (1-15, a-z,
>etc.). Also, what letters are skipped (I, O)?
The data posted on my website was purloined from an
out of print publication called "Where the wires go",
the effort of an avionics technician that bothered to
compile and share his personal library of knowledge.
I have no way to confirm or deny the accuracy of these
drawings. Obviously, if the drawing differs physically
from what your particular equipment items show, then
the data are suspect and probably cannot be relied upon.
Suggest you visit an avionics shop on a small airport
and make friends with the owner. Years ago, I was
privileged to enjoy the friendship of one of the real
grey-beards in avionics. He had a library of data that
went all the way back to these wonderful products:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Radios/P1012765.JPG
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Radios/P1012780.JPG
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Radios/P1012763.JPG
I used to buy, refurbish and sell these radios back
in the days when I was the proud holder of a 1st
Class Radio Telephone License.
The radios you're wrestling with are not nearly so
dated . . . but finding useful data out in the wild
is becoming increasingly difficult. If you do find some
information that's more useful than what I've
published, I'd be pleased to receive some copies
which I will scan and make available to others.
>Second question: I realize the transponder antenna should not be bundled
>with other wires, but is it okay to bundle the COM and NAV antenna cables
>with other wires?
There are no fundamentals in physics that recommend
separation of wires between potentially antagonistic
systems. There are two purposes for DO-160 testing
against a TSO document for TC aircraft appliances.
(1) make sure the device performs as advertised and
(2) relieve the installer from making concessions
to one system versus another system for happy
coexistence in an airplane.
Folks who experienced success at eliminating
interference by repositioning wires have only
succeeded in masking the root cause of a
problem. The practice of sorting wire bundles
as a prophylactic against interference problems
is not an industry practice.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Chuck,
That has been our experience with the GRT stuff. Not polished but works
very well! I personally own two EIS systems from GRT based on all the
success I have experienced helping other builders and customers.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Mike,
I'm certainly satisfied with the GRT EFIS and the "service experience."
At one time, GRT was way ahead in features with ability to fly coupled
approaches, maps overlays and what all....many of the things BMA
promised but never delivered (and no, I don't own a BMA, but that
doesn't mean I can't have an opinion!). The main ding on GRT was the
low resolution of the display. The display was not as beautiful as a
BMA, but then, it would consistently boot up and not go dark--a good
tradeoff.
They have responded to concern about display resolution by shipping a
higher resolution display next month that is a little bigger and, no
surprise, costs a little more, but they will upgrade previous units for
a reasonably fair cost. The higher resolution, reported to be a good
looker, should be helpful in displaying maps, obstructions, wx,
airports, et al. When that many details were shown on the lo-res units,
readability did become a bit of an issue.
In sum, even though not bullet proof (even the certified units aren't),
I believe GRT is an excellent choice and a good value for the offered
feature set with excellent service to back it up. With that said, there
are several competing systems that are also very good and if the price,
aesthetics and features strike your fancy, they will do well for you
also. With all the new choices available, life-is-good.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Chuck,
Well said!
Mike
Ps- How=92s the GRT system treating you?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:09 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Bruce,
The experiences reported by others are just data bits. It's up to the
recipient to determine whether the props or reported dings apply to
their situation or not. One is free to discount the comments of all
others. The advantage of doing so is the opportunity to relearn the
same lessons they have already learned. If I recall correctly, that's
why history keeps repeating itself.
Certainly, because someone reports something about a product or person
doesn't make it a fact or an opinion, but simply information to
consider, digest and factor into one's own actions. That reporting is
one of the most valuable aspects of these lists. That reporting is one
of the reasons I bought dual GRT EFIS--because of the feature set,
reputation of delivering on promised upgrades and excellent customer
support; all of which I have found to be accurate.
You are certainly welcome to ignore outside information, but one does so
at their own peril and pain.
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Peters
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product!
You know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to
listen to anyone else cause it nust be true!
On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell <HYPERLINK
"mailto:bferrell@123mail.net"bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
"mailto:bferrell@123mail.net"bferrell@123mail.net >
Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been satisfied. I
think
that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
functionality, but
I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being first
can
mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the option
of
perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at my
discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
Brett
HYPERLINK "http://www.velocityxl.com/" \nwww.velocityxl.com
Quoting Mike <HYPERLINK "mailto:mlas@cox.net"mlas@cox.net>:
"mailto:mlas@cox.net"mlas@cox.net>
>
> Henador,
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
> are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
> written four posts today on this subject on two different sites. I
have
> been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
> between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
> what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
> then BMA is not for you....
>
> Mike
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
- The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
--> HYPERLINK
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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tion
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10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator / Charging issue |
At 09:34 PM 1/14/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>A while back my alternator decided to start cycling on and off every now
>and again, mostly when under load. It will never do it during a day
>flight, and only during the day when running strobes. I can induce it at
>night fairly easily sometimes with the navs, fuel pump, landing light, and
>panel lights (no strobes needed..they seem able to induce the problem by
>themselves). I was returning from Miss. a few nights ago and it decided
>to do this. I shut down the strobes and everything was fine (as
>usual). I turned the strobes back on and the last 30 min or so of the
>flight was uneventful.
>
>I installed a new B&C battery yesterday and the problem occurred again
>yesterday evening 1 time near the beginning of the flight, and more so on
>the ground after I landed and had the engine at idle power. I stayed in
>the pattern since I had a "known" electrical issue.
>
>Here are few things I may have forgotten to mention, and I can't be sure
>if this could be a cause of my problem.
>
>
>2) I notice both my EI voltmeter as well as the Dynon (backup to my gyro
>;) ) are reporting about 13.5V when in flight. I would assume this
>should be around 14.5 or so. I think before this problem it did. Funny
>the little things you start to notice when you actually have a problem.
>
>3) The main problem is that if under load, the system will "shut down"
>the charging system intermittently and then come back online. Sometimes
>in a rapid (5 secs or so) succession or sometimes in more erratic
>unpredictable intervals. Like the flight back the other night, it acted up
>then stayed online for the remainder of the flight. I'll see the voltage
>annunciator come on and the voltage drop to 11.8 or 12...then it will go
>back up to 13.5. It may stay for a while...the remainder of the
>flight...or maybe 10 secs. It's crazy.
>
> I thought I had the alternator tested at one time and was told it
> was fine.
>
>I also just replaced my main solenoid (it was going bad..wouldn't connect
>when I turned the master on). That's fine now, but that didn't help the
>problem either.
>
>This problem is driving me crazy. Any and all input would be appreciated.
>
>I'm almost convinced I'm never going to find the root if this
>thing. Thanks again.
I've never encountered a system problem that was not
fixable.
You don't say what kind of alternator. External or internally
regulated?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Bob,
I respect your opinion but I must make a distinction between designing
systems vs. purchasing high dollar systems that you have really no
practical way of modifying or changing. A system where failure is
common vs. occasional. Most of the issues discussed on this site are
based on simple boiler plate system design that can be tested thoroughly
prior to full use. My fear is people will add these off the shelf
products using the marketing as fact on units that seem to work and
sometimes do for a short period of time, this leading toward a false
sense of security. The bottom line is most of what is reported here is
not opinion but fact of failure regard failure with out systematic data
collection. For example I have experienced more then 20 hard failures
of my BMA system while running side by side with a Chelton non-certified
EFIS and an Advanced Flight System AF engine system with no failures at
all on these unites over a period of 18 months and three hundred hours
of in-flight time. Just to clarify!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 08:31 PM 1/14/2008 -0500, you wrote:
><sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
>
>I've been in the aircraft business as long as most people on this
list,and
>I've never head as many complaints about any other vender as Blue
>Mountain. Why don't you just blow off the advice of this list,and go
ahead
>and buy there product, then tell us were wrong! :-)
>Sam
What we're witnessing here is a "snowstorm" of
anecdotal data and the attempts by many to deduce
a "degree of goodness" for a product based on
analysis of that data.
In the TC aircraft world, we rely on repeatable
experiments that put a product through a representative
set of tests that benchmark performance.
These tests are completely independent of the
producer's talents for design, manufacturing and
customer service.
Complaints are valuable information but must be
sorted for relevance to (1) science or (2)
business model. The world's most elegant product
is worthless when it cannot be supported by
quality workmanship and honorable marketing.
On the other hand, many a marginal and/or
even dangerous product has gained a marketplace
toe-hold when manufactured and promoted by
persuasive individuals. Just watch late night
TV for a host of examples for the later class
of merchandise.
We've all heard less than complimentary reports
about Blue Mountain. I've received numerous
stories from knowledgeable system integrators,
pilots and marketing folks who had nothing
but good wishes for success of this product. They
wanted to sell it as a supporting system in their
own airframes.
All of these stories are dated. I would hope
that Blue Mountain's longevity in the marketplace
has more to do with IMPROVEMENTS to both their
science and marketing than for an ability to
squeeze, bottle and sell snake-oil.
When evaluating the usefulness of anecdotal data
from the field, one would do well to view that
data through the filters of reasonableness. Does
the data item make sense? The data items need to
be sorted into two piles: (1) science and (2)
production, marketing and customer service. Finally,
one is well advised to deduce the story teller's
intent . . . informative, humorous, persuasive
or simply hurtful.
If this sounds like more effort and skill
than most of us are able to bring to the argument,
the risk to value for participating in such
discussions becomes obvious. It's an fundamental
element of human nature that individuals with unhappy
experiences will tend toward persuasive words
intended to hurt. But without knowing the
simple-ideas which support an individual's
experience, the intent and value of their words
is not calculable.
I hope individuals who wish to contribute
to the List's collective knowledge and understanding
will do a bit of pre-filtering for their own words
before committing them to the archives. Try to be
informative as to fact and the outcomes of repeatable
experiments. Avoid passing on information that
was not observed/experienced first hand.
Whether you support or disfavor a product or service,
be specific as to the PERSONAL command of facts
upon which you've based your opinion.
Bob . . .
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 13
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| Subject: | Off Subject - Barry Controls Engine Mounts |
I have 4 new in box Barry Controls mounts. They are Barry Controls part
number 94150-41. They are for the Lancair O-235, O-320, or O-360 per the
Aircraft Spruce catalog. They sell them for $104.95 each. AeroCraftParts
(Lancair) sells them for $95 each plus shipping in each case.
You can have mine for $50 each and I will pay shipping. They have a CD of
0346. (Construction Date of 46th week of 2003) Tech support at BM says that
they have a shelf life of 10 years.
If you need to replace your mounts now or in the near future, you will not
find a better deal.
Thanks,
Bill B
Message 14
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Brent, I think you might be missing something. Many are reading these
posts and wondering the viability of a specific product. Greg does a
sizzling hot job on a web page to promote his products (Marketing
wise)but I have heard static for three years on service, tech support
and product reliability.
It is always great to hear of people who are happy. Knowing if they
have 10 hours or 600 on the system helps establish a benchmark.
I have a close friend that bought the highest end BMA four years ago for
a tandem seat project rebuild. Two years ago, Greg said the equipment
(New and in the box) was value-less and the sub-manufacturers had gone
south. The owner had to pay twice and the aircraft is still yet to fly.
These discussions tap on an important discussion point as firms such as
AFS court larger suitors and companies like OP Technologies sell out to
bigger fish.
My question remains "Who will be here in three years and which products
are well supported for the Experimental Build market. EFIS is grand but
a shakeout is inevitable.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett
Ferrell
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<bferrell@123mail.net>
I'm missing something here, Bruce. As I said, I HAVE owned (and still
do) the
product, you can see pictures of it on my website (listed below), so I'm
not
sure how this message is relevant. Or, were you not trying to make a
relevant
point??
http://www.velocityxl.com/EFIS_one.JPG
B
Quoting Bruce Peters <rv9aplane@gmail.com>:
> Wow! So much information from people who have never owned the product!
You
> know I heard from someone that Elvis is alive...I don't have to listen
to
> anyone else cause it nust be true!
>
> On Jan 14, 2008 7:59 PM, Brett Ferrell <bferrell@123mail.net> wrote:
>
> > bferrell@123mail.net>
> >
> > Just to play devil's advocate, I HAVE a BMA, and have been
satisfied. I
> > think
> > that for the price, they offer the most capable and current
functionality,
> > but
> > I think you need to be choiceful with your upgrades because being
first
> > can
> > mean things aren't as solid as many expect. I'd rather have the
option of
> > perfectly stable or leading tech with some possibility of issue - at
my
> > discretion. They are certainly not for everyone.
> >
> > Brett
> > www.velocityxl.com
> >
> > Quoting Mike <mlas@cox.net>:
> >
> > >
> > > Henador,
> > >
> > > I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what
you
> > > are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I
have
> > > written four posts today on this subject on two different sites.
I have
> > > been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
> > > between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor
is
> > > what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the
clouds
> > > then BMA is not for you....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
At 09:53 AM 1/15/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I respect your opinion but I must make a distinction between designing
>systems vs. purchasing high dollar systems that you have really no
>practical way of modifying or changing. A system where failure is
>common vs. occasional. Most of the issues discussed on this site are
>based on simple boiler plate system design that can be tested thoroughly
>prior to full use. My fear is people will add these off the shelf
>products using the marketing as fact on units that seem to work and
>sometimes do for a short period of time, this leading toward a false
>sense of security. The bottom line is most of what is reported here is
>not opinion but fact of failure regard failure with out systematic data
>collection. For example I have experienced more then 20 hard failures
>of my BMA system while running side by side with a Chelton non-certified
>EFIS and an Advanced Flight System AF engine system with no failures at
>all on these unites over a period of 18 months and three hundred hours
>of in-flight time. Just to clarify!
>
>Mike
I don't see where I've argued with you. Your
data are first-hand, unarguable facts which
should given due attention by folks who are
making up their own minds as to how the best
investment of $time$ is made for their project.
I didn't intend to come down for or against
Blue Mountain. The preponderance of evidence
in the marketplace is decidedly not in their
favor. My hope is that folks learn sift the
clouds of floobydust that invariably arise
when searching out useful data.
This is especially important when the equipment
is part of a closed loop stabilization and
navigation system. Doing a reliable display
based on rate sensors as opposed to gyros
is an exceedingly non-trivial software task.
Not only is there a need for robust sensing,
interpretation, calculation for valid display,
there's an equally critical task for sensing
and notification of crew when the display is
not valid.
I've been intimately involved in programs that
replaced iron gyros with laser rate sensors
for the autopilots in 0.5M to 4.0M targets
which maneuvered at up to 10Gs! I've watched
those processes. We expended manpower and
taxpayer dollars that would make most of the
low-cost EFIS OBAM aircraft systems look like
crystal sets.
So in no way do I want to trivialize anyone's
offering of hard data. I do want to encourage
folks to make decisions based on hard data
and to sift that data from information that
is more emotional noise than data.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Henador,
It has nothing to do with military experience, it has to do with the
experience of the designer with systems that have flown and acquired
time in an airborne environment. That environment is very different from
a lab or a car.
There are some useful and useless questions to ask,
Useless: How many colors on the display
Useful: What is the update rate of the display when using the full color
palate?
Useless: How fast is the processor?
Useful: What is the latency from the air data or attitude sensor sensing
a parameter to it being displayed when the system is displaying its most
complex page? If more than 100ms you will notice the lag, it will be
more difficult to fly the airplane than with a faster system).
Useless: How fast does the internal data bus run at, what is the update
rate of the screen?
Useful: How many times a second does the flight data get updated on the
screen when displaying the most complex page? If less than 20Hz
(preferably 40 or 60Hz) you will notice jumpiness in the display.
Useless: What language did you use for coding?
Useful: What precautions did you take with the software and hardware
designs to ensure accurate and reliable data is always presented to the
pilot, and that any data that is unreliable or stale is not displayed?
The point is airplane guys usually understand what is required from a
system to allow a pilot to properly fly the airplane, what kind of
dynamic response is desireable, and where to optimise the system at the
design stage. Electronics guys might be tempted to use a better
resolution screen, but not consider updates rates or latency in the
basic systems architecture. Errors at the design stage are difficult to
overcome during testing and development.
Any company who claims you should buy their product because it has a big
display that shows lots of data doesn't understand the task that display
will have to perform! If they claim that the basic flight data is
updated much more quickly than the graphics intensive map or terrain
data, then that would make much more sense.
It is really difficult for the average homebuilder to get a good
assessment of the real world performance that might be offered by any
particular EFIS or similar. There are very few comparative evaluations.
One of the only factors is the skill and background of the folks who
designed and built the equipment.
Peter
PS If anyone can answer the above questions for Blue Mountain (or any
other EFIS) I, for one, would be interested.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Henador Titzoff
Sent: 15 January 2008 01:17
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
Peter,
Your view seems biased to me. You work in military avionics yet ou
think that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much better
EFISs and autopilots than "electronic guys" who move into airplanes.
I'm not sure what you mean by "electronic guys," but I suspect it is
workers who produce commercial products. That's like Lenin claiming
that communism is better than capitalism.
I also do not have direct experience with BMA products, but I've seen
their reps at airshows. They seem to know what they're talking about
just like the other guys. If they're having problems, I am willing to
bet that they are business related decisions, i.e., shipping too early
to meet deadlines, not ordering enough parts on time, technical problems
due to hurried schedules, etc. These problems plague any organization
that isn't run properly. It has nothing to do with whether someone has
military experience or not.
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:25:57 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<peter@sportingaero.com>
I work in military avionics (I started out as an aerodynamicist); my
view is that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much
better
EFIS and autopilot products than electronics guys who move into
airplanes. Ask about the background of the company who built the
product
and make a decision accordingly. I have no direct experience of BMA
products, but their representatives at the various airshows did not
talk
enough 'airplane' for me.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Sully
Sent: 14 January 2008 04:20
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
I wanted to find out if anyone has recent experience with performance
and support from Blue Mountain. I have an opportunity to buy a EFIS/One
from someone who hasn't been satisfied, but most of the negative posts
I've seen, seem to be several months old. Any current info will
appreciated.
Sully
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157917#157917
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
At 07:52 PM 1/15/2008 +0000, you wrote:
><peter@sportingaero.com>
>
>Henador,
>
>It has nothing to do with military experience, it has to do with the
>experience of the designer with systems that have flown and acquired
>time in an airborne environment. That environment is very different from
>a lab or a car.
>
>There are some useful and useless questions to ask,
>
>Useless: How many colors on the display
>Useful: What is the update rate of the display when using the full color
>palate?
>Useless: How fast is the processor?
>Useful: What is the latency from the air data or attitude sensor sensing
>a parameter to it being displayed when the system is displaying its most
>complex page? If more than 100ms you will notice the lag, it will be
>more difficult to fly the airplane than with a faster system).
>Useless: How fast does the internal data bus run at, what is the update
>rate of the screen?
>Useful: How many times a second does the flight data get updated on the
>screen when displaying the most complex page? If less than 20Hz
>(preferably 40 or 60Hz) you will notice jumpiness in the display.
>Useless: What language did you use for coding?
>Useful: What precautions did you take with the software and hardware
>designs to ensure accurate and reliable data is always presented to the
>pilot, and that any data that is unreliable or stale is not displayed?
>
>The point is airplane guys usually understand what is required from a
>system to allow a pilot to properly fly the airplane, what kind of
>dynamic response is desireable, and where to optimise the system at the
>design stage. Electronics guys might be tempted to use a better
>resolution screen, but not consider updates rates or latency in the
>basic systems architecture. Errors at the design stage are difficult to
>overcome during testing and development.
>
>Any company who claims you should buy their product because it has a big
>display that shows lots of data doesn't understand the task that display
>will have to perform! If they claim that the basic flight data is
>updated much more quickly than the graphics intensive map or terrain
>data, then that would make much more sense.
>
>It is really difficult for the average homebuilder to get a good
>assessment of the real world performance that might be offered by any
>particular EFIS or similar. There are very few comparative evaluations.
>One of the only factors is the skill and background of the folks who
>designed and built the equipment.
>
>Peter
Exactly!
To your list of questions I would add:
Has your product been designed to comply with design goals
set forth in DO-160? If so, which levels and which chapters?
Have any tests been conducted to confirm compliance?
Does your product feature any form of data integrity
monitoring? Does the software monitor internally or
externally developed data for reasonableness? If any
item becomes suspect, how is it handled in displays
to the pilot?
Are there provisions for useful if degraded performance
if some feature of normal operations is no longer
reliable?
Are there any maneuvers that exceed the sensor/software
ability to deduce true conditions? If the system falls
out of bed, how fast and under what conditions might
the user expect the system to get stood up again?
There are probably more questions but these came to
mind first. Peter is right, the average homebuilder
should not be expected to know enough to ask such
questions or understand the answers. But these ARE
questions that should be addressed in detail in the
product's published specifications, installation
and service data. No details as to circuit design,
software or even sources of components need be revealed.
All these questions go to the designer's ability to
do the job right and the manufacturer's ability
and willingness to support it. The capable and
honorable supplier will have no problems with
answering them. These are exactly the kind of
questions I'm expected to answer for clients
. . . clients who couldn't care less about the
gee-whiz and do care a lot about delivering
to customer's expectations at a price he/she
is pleased to pay.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
No, my apologies, just tired of of vendors that stretch the truth, to sell there
junk. You can find the answer to your questions if you read between the lines
here on this fourm. These are the people that have been at your crossroads
in life and taken both roads, at one time or another.
Sam
---- Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com> wrote:
============
Sam, the advice on this list sometimes gets pretty ridiculous, like telling me
to buy an EFIS that I don't need. What are you, some kind of control freak?
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: "sam@fr8dog.net" <sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:31:29 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
I've been in the aircraft business as long as most people on this
list,and I've never head as many complaints about any other vender as Blue
Mountain. Why don't you just blow off the advice of this list,and go
ahead and buy there product, then tell us were wrong! :-)
Sam
---- Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com> wrote:
============
<henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
Peter,
Your view seems biased to me. You work in military avionics yet ou
think that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much better
EFISs and autopilots than "electronic guys" who move into airplanes. I'm
not sure what you mean by "electronic guys," but I suspect it is
workers who produce commercial products. That's like Lenin claiming that
communism is better than capitalism.
I also do not have direct experience with BMA products, but I've seen
their reps at airshows. They seem to know what they're talking about
just like the other guys. If they're having problems, I am willing to
bet that they are business related decisions, i.e., shipping too early to
meet deadlines, not ordering enough parts on time, technical problems
due to hurried schedules, etc. These problems plague any organization
that isn't run properly. It has nothing to do with whether someone has
military experience or not.
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:25:57 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<peter@sportingaero.com>
I work in military avionics (I started out as an aerodynamicist); my
view is that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much
better
EFIS and autopilot products than electronics guys who move into
airplanes. Ask about the background of the company who built the
product
and make a decision accordingly. I have no direct experience of BMA
products, but their representatives at the various airshows did not
talk
enough 'airplane' for me.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Sully
Sent: 14 January 2008 04:20
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
I wanted to find out if anyone has recent experience with performance
and support from Blue Mountain. I have an opportunity to buy a EFIS/One
from someone who hasn't been satisfied, but most of the negative posts
I've seen, seem to be several months old. Any current info will
appreciated.
Sully
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Sam, you are a noble man. I must apologize to you, also.
Well, you aren't the only one who's tired of vendors who don't deliver and when
they do, they deliver crapp product. I believe we all are. The reason I've
been abrupt with you and Peter is because I believe that both of you misread what
I initially said. Nowhere in my response did I say that I wanted an EFIS.
And nowhere did I defend or condone BMA products. What I simply said is that
Peter is biased being a military guy and saying that only airplane guys know
how to design autopilot and EFISs. Being a military guy has nothing to do with
it unless you want to pay 85% slouches and 15% good guys to get the job done.
Later on he makes the same mistake you made and tells me to blow off the advice
of the people on this list and go buy BMA products. Again, I never said
I wanted to buy BMA products nor do I condone them, because I have no direct
experience with them. I plainly say that I do not have direct experience with
them, but that I have seen BMA
guys at airshows, and they seem to know what they're talking about. Anybody can
talk good shiite, because they are salespeople and have static displays to
show. This is true of any company. The only way to evaluate a good product is
to try it out under normal and extended operating conditions. Nothing beats
experience. What you hear on this email list is, as Bob said, lots of anecdotal
data, no -prefiltering of data, and some good stuff. Often times, when people
post to this and other lists, their intentions are to either sale, sale,
sale what they bought regardless of how good or bad it is, or condemn, condemn,
condemn for several reasons, some being questionable.
P.S. I'm perfectly happy with the equipment I have. If I ever decide to move
up in the EFIS world, I will ride shotgun in people's planes who have such equipment,
then make up my own mind. I know enough EFIS owners already, and they
all talk great about what they have (sale, sale, sale).
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: "sam@fr8dog.net" <sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
Cc: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:02:22 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
No, my apologies, just tired of of vendors that stretch the truth, to
sell there junk. You can find the answer to your questions if you read
between the lines here on this fourm. These are the people that have
been at your crossroads in life and taken both roads, at one time or
another.
Sam
---- Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com> wrote:
============
<henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
Sam, the advice on this list sometimes gets pretty ridiculous, like
telling me to buy an EFIS that I don't need. What are you, some kind of
control freak?
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: "sam@fr8dog.net" <sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:31:29 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<sam.marlow@adelphia.net>
I've been in the aircraft business as long as most people on this
list,and I've never head as many complaints about any other vender as
Blue
Mountain. Why don't you just blow off the advice of this list,and go
ahead and buy there product, then tell us were wrong! :-)
Sam
---- Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com> wrote:
============
<henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
Peter,
Your view seems biased to me. You work in military avionics yet ou
think that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much better
EFISs and autopilots than "electronic guys" who move into airplanes.
I'm
not sure what you mean by "electronic guys," but I suspect it is
workers who produce commercial products. That's like Lenin claiming
that
communism is better than capitalism.
I also do not have direct experience with BMA products, but I've seen
their reps at airshows. They seem to know what they're talking about
just like the other guys. If they're having problems, I am willing to
bet that they are business related decisions, i.e., shipping too early
to
meet deadlines, not ordering enough parts on time, technical problems
due to hurried schedules, etc. These problems plague any organization
that isn't run properly. It has nothing to do with whether someone
has
military experience or not.
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:25:57 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<peter@sportingaero.com>
I work in military avionics (I started out as an aerodynamicist); my
view is that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much
better
EFIS and autopilot products than electronics guys who move into
airplanes. Ask about the background of the company who built the
product
and make a decision accordingly. I have no direct experience of BMA
products, but their representatives at the various airshows did not
talk
enough 'airplane' for me.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Sully
Sent: 14 January 2008 04:20
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
I wanted to find out if anyone has recent experience with performance
and support from Blue Mountain. I have an opportunity to buy a EFIS/One
from someone who hasn't been satisfied, but most of the negative posts
I've seen, seem to be several months old. Any current info will
appreciated.
Sully
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Mike,
I know you're not trying to be rude, but please go back and read what I said again.
Nowhere does it say that I am in the market for an EFIS, BMA or whatever.
Nowhere does it say that I am condoning BMA products. I did say that I've
talked to their salespeople at airshows, and they seem to know what they're talking
about. This does NOT amount to my condoning their products. Anybody can
talk a good talk. My post was to contradict Peter about military guys and why
companies get in trouble and nothing else.
Have a wonderful evening, Mike and Peter and Sam.
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike <mlas@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:41:50 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Henador,
I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you have any idea what you
are talking about as it pertains to Blue Mountain Avionics. I have
written four posts today on this subject on two different sites. I
have
been nice and danced around the issue figuring that all could read
between the lines. But for you let me be direct, if a boat anchor is
what you need then BMA is for you. If you want to fly in the clouds
then BMA is not for you....
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Henador Titzoff
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
Peter,
Your view seems biased to me. You work in military avionics yet ou
think that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much better
EFISs and autopilots than "electronic guys" who move into airplanes.
I'm not sure what you mean by "electronic guys," but I suspect it is
workers who produce commercial products. That's like Lenin claiming
that communism is better than capitalism.
I also do not have direct experience with BMA products, but I've seen
their reps at airshows. They seem to know what they're talking about
just like the other guys. If they're having problems, I am willing to
bet that they are business related decisions, i.e., shipping too early
to meet deadlines, not ordering enough parts on time, technical
problems
due to hurried schedules, etc. These problems plague any organization
that isn't run properly. It has nothing to do with whether someone has
military experience or not.
Henador
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:25:57 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
<peter@sportingaero.com>
I work in military avionics (I started out as an aerodynamicist); my
view is that airplane guys who move into electronics produce much
better
EFIS and autopilot products than electronics guys who move into
airplanes. Ask about the background of the company who built the
product
and make a decision accordingly. I have no direct experience of BMA
products, but their representatives at the various airshows did not
talk
enough 'airplane' for me.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Sully
Sent: 14 January 2008 04:20
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
I wanted to find out if anyone has recent experience with performance
and support from Blue Mountain. I have an opportunity to buy a EFIS/One
from someone who hasn't been satisfied, but most of the negative posts
I've seen, seem to be several months old. Any current info will
appreciated.
Sully
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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| Subject: | IFR GPS requirements |
Hello All,
I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During
discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to
use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field
approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that
the experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type
Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on
this subject.
Bill
RV-7
Lee's Summit, MO
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| Subject: | Alternator / Charging issue |
Hello Steve,
The 13.5 volt output appears to be too low, possibly due to a bad diode.
The intermittent nature also could be due to excessive leakage from one
or more of the other diodes when the alternator gets hot. It might be
wise to take it to an alternator overhaul shop to be checked vs. the
local auto parts establishment. What type of alternator do you have? Any
cooling via blast tube? Please let us know what you find. Thanks.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Reeves
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator / Charging issue
<sreeves@gw.med.sc.edu>
A while back my alternator decided to start cycling on and off every
now and again, mostly when under load. It will never do it during a
day flight, and only during the day when running strobes. I can
induce it at night fairly easily sometimes with the navs, fuel pump,
landing light, and panel lights (no strobes needed..they seem able to
induce the problem by themselves). I was returning from Miss. a few
nights ago and it decided to do this. I shut down the strobes and
everything was fine (as usual). I turned the strobes back on and the
last 30 min or so of the flight was uneventful.
I installed a new B&C battery yesterday and the problem occurred
again yesterday evening 1 time near the beginning of the flight, and
more so on the ground after I landed and had the engine at idle
power. I stayed in the pattern since I had a "known" electrical issue.
Here are few things I may have forgotten to mention, and I can't be
sure if this could be a cause of my problem.
2) I notice both my EI voltmeter as well as the Dynon (backup to my
gyro ;) ) are reporting about 13.5V when in flight. I would assume
this should be around 14.5 or so. I think before this problem it
did. Funny the little things you start to notice when you actually
have a problem.
3) The main problem is that if under load, the system will "shut
down" the charging system intermittently and then come back
online. Sometimes in a rapid (5 secs or so) succession or
sometimes
in more erratic unpredictable intervals. Like the flight back the
other night, it acted up then stayed online for the remainder of the
flight. I'll see the voltage annunciator come on and the voltage
drop to 11.8 or 12...then it will go back up to 13.5. It may stay
for a while...the remainder of the flight...or maybe 10 secs. It's
crazy.
I thought I had the alternator tested at one time and was told
it was fine.
I also just replaced my main solenoid (it was going bad..wouldn't
connect when I turned the master on). That's fine now, but that
didn't help the problem either.
This problem is driving me crazy. Any and all input would be
appreciated.
I'm almost convinced I'm never going to find the root if this
thing. Thanks again.
Steve Reeves
Glasair 38SR
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
At 09:39 PM 1/15/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>
>I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During
>discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to
>use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field
>approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the
>experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type
>Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on
>this subject.
It would be interesting to see who he recommends for
an IA to sign this off! Assuming you can get it submitted,
it would be interesting to watch what happens to the document
once it hit the appropriate offices for approval and filing.
337's are the equivalent of a one-time STC against a particular
certificated airframe.
The guys here tell me to install it, go fly it, satisfy yourself
that it is functioning as advertised and be done with it. Be
cautious about getting into any serious discussions with
a bureaucrat.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
Sorry to drift off topic, but chalk it up to Remote Hangar Power-Supply Project.
I've got a couple solar (PV) panels, each rated 48 watt, 3 amp @ 16 volts, 18-19
volts open circuit. Problem is that I bought an inverter that has a 15.5 high-voltage
cutoff, so no worky for 110a/c.
My question(s):
If I got a "Solar Charge Controller", designed to limit charge into batteries,
could I use it to supply the inverter ??
And how about a 12-v. resistive load, or pump/fan motors, (no inverter) that
would pull down the voltage at max draw ?? ... assuming the charge controller
could handle the current.
Any other ideas for regulating 16 v down to a usable 13-14 (for 6 A.)
Thanks in advance for any advice.
--Richard V., 601xl in a cold shop in KC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158464#158464
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 01/14/08 |
David,
I have a different model PSE intercom in my Cessna. It has a failover
mode that connects the radio directly to the headset when the intercom
power is off. When you turn it on, some relays click and the intercom
inserts itself into the radio to headset circuitry. So with the power
off, you cannot measure a short.
Try measuring for a short between the headset, mic and ptt leads to
ground and see if you mis-wired something.
PSE has great tech support. I spent quite a while talking with a tech
named Brad when I had a weird incompatibility issue with the intercom
and my headset.
They will take your unit back for test and trade, but check all your
wiring first. Just disconnect the connector at the back of the unit
and search for grounds that are not supposed to be.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> Time: 05:43:02 AM PST US
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Troubleshooting Help Needed
> From: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher@ge.com>
>
> I put power to my PS Engineering PM501 intercom last night for the
> first time and
> have a problem that has me at a dead-end. When I powered it up, the
> fuse blow
> immediately. I metered the power lead to ground and got infinite resistance
> which tells me that there are no dead shorts in the wiring. I moved
> the power
> circuit to a breaker, just to eliminate the fuse from contention, and it also
> popped. Again, no short to ground with the meter. When the unit is switched
> off, power can be applied and the breaker will stay latched. This
> also appears
> to tells me that there are no dead shorts in the wiring. It is only when
> turned on that it blows. Is this a problem inside the box that I may not be
> able to troubleshoot, let alone fix? Any thoughts on what my
> options are here,
> maybe something I have overlooked?
>
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL, tail and wings completed,
> fueslage almost done. Working engine and electrical systems.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
At 20:16 1/15/2008, you wrote:
>
>Sorry to drift off topic, but chalk it up to Remote Hangar
>Power-Supply Project.
>
>I've got a couple solar (PV) panels, each rated 48 watt, 3 amp @ 16
>volts, 18-19 volts open circuit. Problem is that I bought an
>inverter that has a 15.5 high-voltage cutoff, so no worky for 110a/c.
>My question(s):
>If I got a "Solar Charge Controller", designed to limit charge into
>batteries, could I use it to supply the inverter ??
>
> And how about a 12-v. resistive load, or pump/fan motors, (no
> inverter) that would pull down the voltage at max draw ?? ...
> assuming the charge controller could handle the current.
>
>Any other ideas for regulating 16 v down to a usable 13-14 (for 6 A.)
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice.
>--Richard V., 601xl in a cold shop in KC
Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel?
Ron Q.
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