Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (BobsV35B@aol.com)
2. 01:19 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Richard Talbot)
3. 03:17 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (William Gill)
4. 05:33 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Peter Laurence)
5. 05:51 AM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Ernest Christley)
6. 05:56 AM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (vozzen)
7. 06:02 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (N395V)
8. 06:10 AM - IFR GPS requirements ()
9. 06:50 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Richard Girard)
10. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Ernest Christley)
11. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
12. 07:07 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (BobsV35B@aol.com)
13. 07:29 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (N395V)
14. 07:34 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Richard Girard)
16. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
17. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Chuck Jensen)
18. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Steve Thomas)
19. 10:42 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights ()
20. 11:04 AM - IFR (GPS) requirements (rd2@evenlink.com)
21. 01:59 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain EFIS (Valovich, Paul)
22. 03:09 PM - EFIS screen brightness (Carlos Trigo)
23. 03:45 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 (Lee Logan)
24. 05:57 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Speedy11@aol.com)
25. 07:18 PM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 (Henador Titzoff)
27. 09:06 PM - Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
28. 09:42 PM - Re: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 09:47 PM - Re: EFIS screen brightness (Scott R. Shook)
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Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Good Morning Bill,
I agree with 'Lectric Bob's comment, but may I add a bit more?
What it basically amounts to is that you are the certifying agent. As long
as the equipment operates in the manner required to meet the IFR requirement
s,
you are good to go. However, that does seem to mean that you should do the
checks that would be required for the flight testing to assure yourself that
the set is working properly. Just follow the directions given in the
installation manual for the test flight and so certify in the ship's papers
.
I don't have the regulations memorized, but EAA has issued a paper on the
subject of IFR certification of experimental aircraft. It may have been auth
ored
by Earl Lawrence, but I am not sure. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable
than I will pipe up with a better reference.
In any case, don't get in an argument with a local FSDO inspector.
Remember, even though most of them are great guys who want to do a good job
,
they are still at the very bottom of the food chain.
Just listen and then do what you want! You are the responsible party. No
arguments needed.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/15/2008 9:44:48 P.M. Central Standard Time,
wgill10@comcast.net writes:
Hello All,
I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During
discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to use
this
unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field approval, and
completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the experimental s
hips
had to jump through the same hoops as the Type Certificated aircraft. Can t
his
possibly be true? I welcome all input on this subject.
Bill
RV-7
Lee=99s Summit, MO
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
I don't personally own a BMA unit but I have certainly evaluated every
competitor out there. There are a few observations I would make about their
top of the line product:
* Until recently very few of the avionics shops would sell it.
Several privately told me to consider why that was but did not actually give
me a specific reason.
* As far as I am aware only one is openly selling BMA stuff today.
That same person told me at Oshkosh several years ago that he wouldn't sell
it and recommended another product. Times change and commercial realities
change that is for sure, but has the reason for the original decision
changed? I don't know.
* Second hand BMA stuff seems to come on the market frequently. I
have not seen this occur with too much other gear that is to all intents and
purposes the latest model.
* Stories abound if you ask about of people that are not happy with
the product, many continue to swear by it though. Some must have had good
service, some may not wish to conclude they spent a lot of money on
something that is not perfect. Some are happy pushing the envelope or
investing in the technology. However other vendors exist that no one has a
bad thing to say about. Surely this would make many people's decision easy
if they are looking for a polished product. However, I would say this is
experimental aviation and each has their own reason for purchasing.
What really convinced me is the method these guys use to develop and ship
code. This is something I am very well qualified to comment on as I work in
the software industry and have been doing so for many years. From
discussions with them and observation of the activities on their message
board I would not fly their latest code under the IFR. This was my priority
and it was a deal breaker for me. I could ask why people buy these units
when they do not want to fly NVFR or IFR, but that would be a whole other
can of worms.
However, If you own BMA hardware, or you want to buy it, please do not take
offense. I support the nature of experimental aviation and your continuing
investment in the technology will no doubt lead to competition and
improvements in the marketplace for everyone. BMA is not for me, for the
reasons I outlined above. If you want to buy it, then that is cool too.
Good luck with your project and happy flying!
Richard
Message 3
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Subject: | IFR GPS requirements |
Bob,
This inspector said he has done over 50 field inspections via 337 in
experimental aircraft in the Kansas City area. He did not say who the
submitting agency was, but I believe it was a repair station that he has
oversight responsibility. Strange. I will take everyone's advice and
quietly stay back away from the FAA and proceed. I have done a flight
test in visual conditions performing GPS approaches (as well as LOC/ILS
approaches) and all went great. Thanks for your input.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 09:39 PM 1/15/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>
>I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During
>discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to
>use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field
>approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that
the
>experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type
>Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input
on
>this subject.
It would be interesting to see who he recommends for
an IA to sign this off! Assuming you can get it submitted,
it would be interesting to watch what happens to the document
once it hit the appropriate offices for approval and filing.
337's are the equivalent of a one-time STC against a particular
certificated airframe.
The guys here tell me to install it, go fly it, satisfy yourself
that it is functioning as advertised and be done with it. Be
cautious about getting into any serious discussions with
a bureaucrat.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Bill
I did a bit of research on this subject last year. The FAA inspector is
WRONG!
Peter Laurence
----- Original Message -----
From: William Gill
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements
Hello All,
I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7.
During discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not
allowed to use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a
field approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware
that the experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the
Type Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all
input on this subject.
Bill
RV-7
Lee's Summit, MO
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
Ron Quillin wrote:
> <rjquillin@gmail.com>
>
> At 20:16 1/15/2008, you wrote:
>>
>> Sorry to drift off topic, but chalk it up to Remote Hangar
>> Power-Supply Project.
>>
>> I've got a couple solar (PV) panels, each rated 48 watt, 3 amp @ 16
>> volts, 18-19 volts open circuit. Problem is that I bought an
>> inverter that has a 15.5 high-voltage cutoff, so no worky for 110a/c.
>> My question(s):
>> If I got a "Solar Charge Controller", designed to limit charge into
>> batteries, could I use it to supply the inverter ??
>>
>> And how about a 12-v. resistive load, or pump/fan motors, (no
>> inverter) that would pull down the voltage at max draw ?? ...
>> assuming the charge controller could handle the current.
>>
>> Any other ideas for regulating 16 v down to a usable 13-14 (for 6 A.)
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any advice.
>> --Richard V., 601xl in a cold shop in KC
>
> Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel?
>
> Ron Q.
My thought exactly. This will have the added advantage of allowing you
to draw more than 6amps on the rare occasion that you need it.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
>Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel?
I really wanted to see what was possible without a battery...
--RJV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158503#158503
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
> Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind your BMA?
>
>
About 700hrs.
>
> What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to support it,
or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it and are forced to
love it.
>
>
Yeah,
My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess I'm just
lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work .
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505
Message 8
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Subject: | IFR GPS requirements |
1/16/2008
Hello Bill, Avoid that poor soul -- he has not been around long enough or
cared enough to learn that type certificated aircraft and amateur built
experimental aircraft are treated very differently in the FAA's paperwork
system.
What he has described in the way of paperwork approval just simply does not
apply to your airplane.
Here is a quote from the signature section of the FAA Form 337:
"I certify that the repair and/or alteration made to the unit(s) identified
in item 5 above and described on the reverse or attachments hereto have been
made in accordance with the requirements of Part 43 of the U.S. Federal
Aviation Regulations and that the information furnished herein is true and
correct to the best of my knowledge."
And here is a quote from FAR Part 43.1:
"(b) This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has issued
an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a
different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft."
Since part 43 does not apply to amateur built aircraft issued a Special
Airworthiness Certificate in the Experimental Category for the purpose of
operating amateur-built aircraft (FAR 21.191 (g)) how can one properly
comply with the signature certification requirement on the FAA Form 337?
Several years ago a poster described his mistaken attempt to comply with all
FAA type certificated regulatory and advisory circular requirements for the
IFR GPS installation in his amateur built experimental airplane. He even
flew a test flight with a terrified FAA inspector who spent the entire
flight frantically looking out the window in fear of a mid air collision.
The entire effort was wasted because no FAA agency or procedure for the
approval existed -- just initial erroneous assumptions by uninformed FAA
employees.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
-----------------------------------------
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>Subject: IFR GPS requirements
Hello All,
I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During
discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to
use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field
approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that
the experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type
Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on
this subject.
Bill
RV-7
Lee's Summit, MO
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Peter, et al, It depends on what the inspector wrote into you ops limits. If
he referenced 91.205 as a requirement for IFR flight, then you must get the
system tested by an FAA certified shop. If not you can proceed as you wish.
In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11:
"After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for
night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is
to be operated VFR day only."
Rick Girard
On Jan 16, 2008 7:27 AM, Peter Laurence <Dr.Laurence@mbdi.org> wrote:
> Bill
>
> I did a bit of research on this subject last year. The FAA inspector is
> WRONG!
>
> Peter Laurence
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* William Gill <wgill10@comcast.net>
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:39 PM
> *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements
>
> Hello All,
>
>
> I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During
> discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to use
> this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field approval,
> and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the
> experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type
> Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on
> this subject.
>
>
> Bill
>
> RV-7
>
> Lee's Summit, MO
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
vozzen wrote:
>
>
>> Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel?
>>
>
> I really wanted to see what was possible without a battery...
> --RJV
>
>
You can operate without a battery. Anything is possible, if you throw
enough money at it. But the utility you will get from a couple of
batteries will be by far the biggest bang for the buck. Not only will
they let you have an occasional large power draw that the panels
wouldn't support, but they will let you have limited power at night or
when it's cloudy. If you're rotating cheap batteries as Bob suggests,
then you should be able to rotate the 2yr old battery into a "solar
panel support" position. A spare lawn tractor battery would suffice
until it's time to rotate one in from the airplane. The batteries
should last a LONG time, being constantly charged and only occasionally
drained, so you can keep adding capacity by hooking more up in series as
they rotate out of the plane.
Again, it's possible to solve the problem with some creative
electronics. You could chop the panel's DC to create AC, then run that
through a regulator, then rectify it back to DC. Or you could put a
large capacitor and enough Zener diodes to handle 6amps across the
panel's output. What you'll end up with is some electronics to
maintain, without the added benefits of the stored capacity. You'll
spend a lot more than the $30 battery will cost, even if you kit and
build it yourself.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Milt,
You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
<Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
> Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind
your BMA?
>
>
About 700hrs.
>
> What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to
support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it
and are forced to love it.
>
>
Yeah,
My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess
I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work
.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Good Morning Rick,
That is exactly the way it should read!
The next step is to equip it in accordance with the specifications of 14 CFR
Part 91, section 91.205 for the type of flight you wish to conduct and make
an entry into the ship's papers stating that you have done so.
No need to change anything on your ops spec and no need to contact any Fed.
Just install the equipment and test it in accordance with the manufacturers
directions. As long as you have the proper equipment, just hop in the machine
and go fly IFR and/or night
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/16/2008 8:53:03 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jindoguy@gmail.com writes:
In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11:
"After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for
night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to
be
operated VFR day only."
Rick Girard
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
mlas(at)cox.net wrote:
> Milt,
>
> You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :)
>
> Mike
>
> --
Nah! they are way too ugly to marry but it is a short flight to the shop.
In all seriousness though I am lucky in that my units have functioned well and
I have had a pleasant experience when interacting with them.
I do know many BMA owners who rightfully are really pissed off at them and have
had nothing but trouble with their units and have had anything but a pleasant
experience in attempting to obtain service. Also know a lot of BMA owners who
got the unit, slapped it in their plane and tried to use it without ever looking
at the install manual, installed them incorrectly nand then raised hell
with BMA.
I think currently BMAs major problem is support for the older units. They do not
have enough staff to fully bring the Gen 4s online and support the gen1s and
3s at the same time. Their G4 launch was a real nightmare for those who needed
their units in a timely fashion. (timely meaning on the date promised)
I do not think BMA or its owners are unethical or do not care about their customers
I think they are exceedingly brilliant techno geeks who hadn't a clue on
how to run a company and had no knowledge of consumer relations.
Hopefully they have learned a lesson and hopefully will survive the past and continue
to grow.
While I am a happy customer and an unashamed supporter I do recognize the problems
they have had and the problems they still have.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158533#158533
Message 14
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Subject: | IFR GPS requirements |
At 05:13 AM 1/16/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>This inspector said he has done over 50 field inspections via 337 in
>experimental aircraft in the Kansas City area. He did not say who the
>submitting agency was, but I believe it was a repair station that he has
>oversight responsibility. Strange. I will take everyone's advice and
>quietly stay back away from the FAA and proceed. I have done a flight
>test in visual conditions performing GPS approaches (as well as LOC/ILS
>approaches) and all went great. Thanks for your input.
>
>Bill
What he "has done" compared to what he is supposed
"to do" may have some serious disconnect here. But
then KC is the home of the Small Aircraft Directorate.
As Thomas Paine noted many moons ago: When subject to
dictatorships, monarchy, or oligarchy, at least we
KNOW the source from which our irritations emanate.
With democracies, we can only just begin to perceive
the major players in a mass of individuals who's
power needs to be metered through constitutional
boundaries. It would not surprise me that what
was recited to you by this individual was a portent
of things to come. After all, the FAA is only here
to help! With the numbers of TC light aircraft
dwindling, he's only looking for more things to
do.
The prohibition against night and/or IFR flight
speaks only to having the necessary equipment under
part 91 rules to safely conduct such operations.
It does not speak to whether it's silver plated,
platinum plated, or holy-watered by individuals
knighted by the oligarchy.
A wise mentor of many years ago once advised me
never to ask a question of anyone with power unless
I already knew what that answer would be. Seems
like a silly notion but as I grew older, it made
a lot of sense. Folks with much power over my life
leave a trail of activities that can be researched
for predictors of their answers. If you don't like
what the answer is going to be, then don't ask it.
It many cases, the expenditure of $time$ to receive
permission far exceeds the $time$ expended to
beg forgiveness.
So sifting through the pile of wreckage after
bagging your remains they discover that your
GPS was not holy-watered . . . what are they
going to do, fine you?
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest in any of
this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating daily. Bob created
this site for information exchange, how about keeping it that way and leave
the personal insults and disingenuous apologies to political hacks. Enough,
please.
Rick Girard
On Jan 16, 2008 9:01 AM, Mike <mlas@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Milt,
>
> You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :)
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of N395V
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
>
> <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
>
>
> > Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind
> your BMA?
> >
> >
>
>
> About 700hrs.
>
>
> >
> > What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to
> support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it
> and are forced to love it.
> >
> >
>
>
> Yeah,
>
> My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess
> I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work
> .
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505
>
>
> 10/2/2007 11:10 AM
>
>
> 10/2/2007 11:10 AM
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Rick,
Go look up reading between the lines=85. The intended reader got it!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest in
any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating daily.
Bob created this site for information exchange, how about keeping it
that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous apologies to
political hacks. Enough, please.
Rick Girard
On Jan 16, 2008 9:01 AM, Mike <HYPERLINK "mailto:mlas@cox.net"
\nmlas@cox.net> wrote:
"mailto:mlas@cox.net" \nmlas@cox.net>
Milt,
You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com"
\nowner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com"
\n owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM
\naeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
<HYPERLINK "mailto:Bearcat@bearcataviation.com"
\nBearcat@bearcataviation.com>
> Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind
your BMA?
>
>
About 700hrs.
>
> What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to
support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it
and are forced to love it.
>
>
Yeah,
My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess
I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work
.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
\nhttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
\n
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
\n
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
===========
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505"
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Rick,
The postings aren't necessarily insults and attacks; they are just raw
data. We're all grown ups. It would be nice, but not necessary, that
posting be routed through a "pleasantness filter", but I suspect
everyone is able to do their own receipt inspection of the information
and recalibrate it as necessary. Sugar coating is best left to cakes
and donuts. I've seen postings, pro and con, on the BMA matter and take
it all at face value as I'm sure others do.
Bob prefers posting be tilted more toward facts and conclusions based on
repeatable data. Unfortunately, in this matter, its virtually
impossible to conduct objective testing that's useful for the potential
buyer/user. In this case, we are stuck with reliance on anecdotal
observations and subjective opinions. I personally don't put great
weight in any one anecdotal observation, but as the observations,
objective or subjective, continue to pile up on one side of the ledger,
then at some point I decide that yes, that may be useful information.
Even if some of the postings were quite blunt, even harsh, I don't
perceive it as a coordinated attack against any individual, company or
product. If there happens to be a large number of unhappy users, then
that is the problem of the Seller and his product, not of the
individuals who posted their personal experience, even if in colorful
and direct language. So, the open exchanges of information is
commission no great sin, but useful information has been exchanged that
can be used as seen appropriate.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest in
any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating daily.
Bob created this site for information exchange, how about keeping it
that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous apologies to
political hacks. Enough, please.
Rick Girard
On Jan 16, 2008 9:01 AM, Mike < mlas@cox.net> wrote:
Milt,
You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :)
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto: <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
< Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
> Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind
your BMA?
>
>
About 700hrs.
>
> What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to
support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it
and are forced to love it.
>
>
Yeah,
My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess
I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work
.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Couldn't agree more. I'm totally tired of the BMA bashing. Let's get
back to the basics.
On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:58 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest
> in any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating
> daily. Bob created this site for information exchange, how about
> keeping it that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous
> apologies to political hacks. Enough, please.
>
> Rick Girard
Message 19
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Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
Found a nice example while browsing. Why build anything? Just install
the lights in the panel and label to suit.
http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Installations/RobbinsPanel.JPG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett
Ferrell
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
--> <bferrell@123mail.net>
I made my panel out of Honeywell microswitches. It's not really a cheap
way, but the results are nice, and it's fairly straight-forward, with
"dead face" (labels so you KNOW the lamp is out, because it cannot be
read unless illuminated from behind). I also built a push-to-test
circuit.
http://www.velocityxl.com/Electrical.htm
(just the pictures)
http://www.velocityxl.com/annunciator.JPG
http://www.velocityxl.com/press_to_test.JPG
http://www.velocityxl.com/IMAGES2/GRT3.JPG
I bought mine from these folks http://www.fmw411.com/
Brett
Quoting Carl Morgan <zk-vii@rvproject.gen.nz>:
> I took Mark's work as a basis, and this is what I ended up with....
>
> Close up: http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/photos/2007-06/Web_Img_9760.jpg
>
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-07-28.html the
> final look,
>
>
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-18.html and
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-19.html for some
> of the fabrication process.
>
> Just another possible source of ideas.
>
> Carl
>
> --
> Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A - Inspection next Tue!
> http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Fiveonepw@aol.com
> Sent: 10 January 2008 18:14
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights
>
>
> Here's another take on rollin' yer own:
>
>
> http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126
>
> Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info
> (several
> pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc...
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark Phillips
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> --
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new
year.
>
>
> 10:16
>
Message 20
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Subject: | IFR (GPS) requirements |
Right on!
Hello (Old) Bob, Rick,
Night or IFR for OBAM or production aircraft is a function of how equipped
(per FAA requirements for night or IFR equipment) and whether such
equipment has been checked as required (e.g. 24 months for pitot-static,
X-ponder, 30 days VOR check, currency of GPS data bases as required by the
manufacturer, etc.) rather than pre-approval by the FAA in the ops specs.
It can be gained (or lost) by the owner/operator at any time after
airworthiness is obtained. No need for FAA involvement.
If I filed IFR and an inspector meets me after landing for a ramp check,
I'd have to show the required IFR equipment (also as logged entries) and
that the required checks have been complied with.
Some production aircraft are "certified" for "Night flight" from the
factory, which nothing more than meaning the required equipment for night
flight was installed, checked, and properly placarded. If e.g. my nav light
became inoperative, I am no longer "night" "certified".
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from BobsV35B@aol.com; Date: 10:04 AM 1/16/2008
EST)
________________________________________________________________
Good Morning Rick,
That is exactly the way it should read!
The next step is to equip it in accordance with the specifications of 14
CFR Part 91, section 91.205 for the type of flight you wish to conduct and
make an entry into the ship's papers stating that you have done so.
No need to change anything on your ops spec and no need to contact any Fed.
Just install the equipment and test it in accordance with the manufacturers
directions. As long as you have the proper equipment, just hop in the
machine and go fly IFR and/or night
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/16/2008 8:53:03 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jindoguy@gmail.com writes:
In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11:
"After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for
night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is
to be operated VFR day only."
Rick Girard
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain |
EFIS
As often happens during forum debates, we tend to veer from the original qu
estion and digress into personalities. FWIW, I'm now wiring the panel in my
-8A, and spent more time by far on the EFIS decision than any other compon
ent over the past 3 years (hey, I may be old, but I'm awfully slow). My goi
ng in PANEL requirements were an IFR capability (please do not start a deba
te on whether RVs are really IFR airplanes - I have significant IFR experie
nce and wanted my plane to have the capability if I wanted to ever exercise
it). That implied an HSI and ILS capability, and the ability to tie to a G
PS and SL30. Display could be a 106 or internal to the EFIS. Reliability ma
tters. So does customer relations. Just like the basic safety rule of aviat
ion: Listen to the experiences of others - you can't possibly live long eno
ugh to experience them all yourself. Word of mouth reputation matters, but
should be taken as a subjective assessment unless hard data is presented. C
ost was a concern, but not the driver. Autopilot compatibility was also att
ractive.
I initially ranked BMA ahead of GRT, with Dynon third (because of lack of H
IS stuff at the time). As I researched more, GRT became first choice. Then
AFS came out with the 3500. After talking to them and learning more about t
he company and the reputation of their other products, I settled on an AFS
3500 and a TruTrak ADI Pilot. No regrets - customer service from both compa
nies has been outstanding, and the capabilities of the 3500 satisfy all my
personal requirements at reasonable cost. Even though I am over a year from
first flight, I have continued to acquire additional EFIS knowledge - and
haven't found anything yet to imply I made an incorrect - or even marginal
- decision.
Rightly or wrongly, in the fast-moving, public world of experimental avioni
cs, you're only as good as your last sortie - or customer experience. There
was enough unanswered negative stuff about BMA to make me think "Why bothe
r", when other companies offered similar or better capabilities at comparab
le or affordably higher cost. As always, it gets back to personal requireme
nts and personal hot buttons that need to be addressed in satisfying those
requirements. There is no cook book. However, a "Do you guys have time to s
hoot the breeze about EFIS systems?" call to customer service (with your ho
mework already done) of each company will give you some pretty good indicat
ors.
And another FWIW - I also carefully researched engine choices, and in the e
nd paid Bart & Sue at Aerosport over $28K for a new IO-360 - mainly because
their approach to customer service resonated so well with me. Other compan
ies would have also satisfied my requirements - perhaps even more cheaply -
but Bart and Sue had an attitude and approach that worked for me.
In this business you will almost never have the 100% solution - and many ti
mes not even the 75% solution. Sometimes your ahead if you're only 51% sure
. Just like Dirty Harry sez: "Do ya' feel lucky, punk? Well do ya?"
Message 22
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Subject: | EFIS screen brightness |
Does anybody know which is the brightness / resolution (in nits) of the
AFS-3400 EFIS' displays ?
Carlos
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 |
"Being a military guy has nothing to do with it unless you want to pay 85%
slouches and 15% good guys to get the job done."
Say what?
I must have never been introduced to the 85% of Marines I served with who
were "slouches"...
Glad to discuss this with you personally some time, however...
Lee...
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS |
Henador Titzoff,
Regarding your statement below - you are wrong.
But, you have a really cool name.
Had you been good enough to join the military, you could have been king of
the call signs!
What aircraft are you flying/building?
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
USAF, Ret
Do not archive
Being a military guy has nothing to do with
it unless you want to pay 85% slouches and 15% good guys to get the job done.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
Sorry to drift off topic, but chalk it up to Remote Hangar Power-Supply
Project.
I've got a couple solar (PV) panels, each rated 48 watt, 3 amp @ 16 volts,
18-19 volts open circuit. Problem is that I bought an inverter that has a
15.5 high-voltage cutoff, so no worky for 110a/c.
My question(s):
If I got a "Solar Charge Controller", designed to limit charge into
batteries, could I use it to supply the inverter ??
Kinda, sorta . . . Solar panels have a significant source
impedance. Hence the drop from 19 volts no load to 16 volts
at a 3A load. DeltaV of 3 volts divided by DeltaI of 3A
yields a source impedance on the order of 1 ohm. Two panels
in parallel would drop this to 1/2 ohm for the array.
16 volts would smoke most 12/14v accessories and some
accessories would draw less than 6A which boosts the
voltage still more.
The most "stable" application of solar power is to combine
the array with a battery maintainer designed to integrate
the array with a rechargeable battery. This allows you to
store energy even if you're not using it for the moment
(until battery is charged). It also allows you to tax the
system with loads much larger than 6A albeit intermittently.
And how about a 12-v. resistive load, or pump/fan motors, (no inverter)
that would pull down the voltage at max draw ?? ... assuming the charge
controller could handle the current.
Any other ideas for regulating 16 v down to a usable 13-14 (for 6 A.)
A Google search for "solar battery charger" yielded
a bucket full of hits . . . a few are cited below.
http://tinyurl.com/ybh9wz
http://tinyurl.com/246w34
http://tinyurl.com/2c3orf
Suggest you team the solar panels with a regulating
charger, the largest battery you're willing to
acquire and maintain. NOW you have an energy source
that will run a pretty hefty inverter and permit
you to run a variety of loads rain or shine.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 |
Lee and Stan,
You boys are correct. What I meant, per Peter's original email, is military guys
= defense contractors that design and produce EFISs and autopilots. I am very
proud of our military guys. They are the best in the world. I know many,
and I have NEVER met a Marine slouch. I can't say that about the USAF, but nonetheless
they are great. My best friend is a major in the USAF, and I am ex-USAF.
I like civilian life, though.
Henador
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:42:44 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08
"Being a military guy has nothing to do with it unless you want to pay 85% slouches
and 15% good guys to get the job done."
Say what?
I must have never been introduced to the 85% of Marines I served with who were
"slouches"...
Glad to discuss this with you personally some time, however...
Lee...
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 27
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Subject: | Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? |
Hello List
I am getting ready to order some parts for my OBAM aircraft electrical
system and would like to verify I have found the correct Diode Bridge per
note #24 in appendix Z.
I found this at digi key
Is it the correct part?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GBPC3502A-N
D
My next question is how big of a heat sink do I need for it if the device
getting power from it draws about 6 amps?
Thanks in advance
Jeff.
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? |
At 11:00 PM 1/16/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Hello List
>
>I am getting ready to order some parts for my OBAM aircraft electrical
>system and would like to verify I have found the correct Diode Bridge per
>note #24 in appendix Z.
>
>I found this at digi key
>Is it the correct part?
>http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GBPC3502A-N
>D
>
>My next question is how big of a heat sink do I need for it if the device
>getting power from it draws about 6 amps?
Mount it to any metal surface and it
will be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 29
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Subject: | EFIS screen brightness |
Rob at AFS should be able to answer that question. Just go to their website
and ask.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, 16 January, 2008 16:06
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS screen brightness
<trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Does anybody know which is the brightness / resolution (in nits) of the
AFS-3400 EFIS' displays ?
Carlos
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