AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 01/16/08


Total Messages Posted: 29



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:18 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (BobsV35B@aol.com)
     2. 01:19 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS  (Richard Talbot)
     3. 03:17 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (William Gill)
     4. 05:33 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Peter Laurence)
     5. 05:51 AM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Ernest Christley)
     6. 05:56 AM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (vozzen)
     7. 06:02 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (N395V)
     8. 06:10 AM - IFR GPS requirements ()
     9. 06:50 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Richard Girard)
    10. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Ernest Christley)
    11. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
    12. 07:07 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    13. 07:29 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (N395V)
    14. 07:34 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Richard Girard)
    16. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Mike)
    17. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Chuck Jensen)
    18. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Steve Thomas)
    19. 10:42 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights ()
    20. 11:04 AM - IFR (GPS) requirements (rd2@evenlink.com)
    21. 01:59 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain EFIS (Valovich, Paul)
    22. 03:09 PM - EFIS screen brightness (Carlos Trigo)
    23. 03:45 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 (Lee Logan)
    24. 05:57 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Speedy11@aol.com)
    25. 07:18 PM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    26. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 (Henador Titzoff)
    27. 09:06 PM - Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
    28. 09:42 PM - Re: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    29. 09:47 PM - Re: EFIS screen brightness (Scott R. Shook)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:18:00 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: IFR GPS requirements
    Good Morning Bill, I agree with 'Lectric Bob's comment, but may I add a bit more? What it basically amounts to is that you are the certifying agent. As long as the equipment operates in the manner required to meet the IFR requirement s, you are good to go. However, that does seem to mean that you should do the checks that would be required for the flight testing to assure yourself that the set is working properly. Just follow the directions given in the installation manual for the test flight and so certify in the ship's papers . I don't have the regulations memorized, but EAA has issued a paper on the subject of IFR certification of experimental aircraft. It may have been auth ored by Earl Lawrence, but I am not sure. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable than I will pipe up with a better reference. In any case, don't get in an argument with a local FSDO inspector. Remember, even though most of them are great guys who want to do a good job , they are still at the very bottom of the food chain. Just listen and then do what you want! You are the responsible party. No arguments needed. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 1/15/2008 9:44:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, wgill10@comcast.net writes: Hello All, I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the experimental s hips had to jump through the same hoops as the Type Certificated aircraft. Can t his possibly be true? I welcome all input on this subject. Bill RV-7 Lee=99s Summit, MO **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:19:29 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Talbot" <richard@talbots.net.au>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    I don't personally own a BMA unit but I have certainly evaluated every competitor out there. There are a few observations I would make about their top of the line product: * Until recently very few of the avionics shops would sell it. Several privately told me to consider why that was but did not actually give me a specific reason. * As far as I am aware only one is openly selling BMA stuff today. That same person told me at Oshkosh several years ago that he wouldn't sell it and recommended another product. Times change and commercial realities change that is for sure, but has the reason for the original decision changed? I don't know. * Second hand BMA stuff seems to come on the market frequently. I have not seen this occur with too much other gear that is to all intents and purposes the latest model. * Stories abound if you ask about of people that are not happy with the product, many continue to swear by it though. Some must have had good service, some may not wish to conclude they spent a lot of money on something that is not perfect. Some are happy pushing the envelope or investing in the technology. However other vendors exist that no one has a bad thing to say about. Surely this would make many people's decision easy if they are looking for a polished product. However, I would say this is experimental aviation and each has their own reason for purchasing. What really convinced me is the method these guys use to develop and ship code. This is something I am very well qualified to comment on as I work in the software industry and have been doing so for many years. From discussions with them and observation of the activities on their message board I would not fly their latest code under the IFR. This was my priority and it was a deal breaker for me. I could ask why people buy these units when they do not want to fly NVFR or IFR, but that would be a whole other can of worms. However, If you own BMA hardware, or you want to buy it, please do not take offense. I support the nature of experimental aviation and your continuing investment in the technology will no doubt lead to competition and improvements in the marketplace for everyone. BMA is not for me, for the reasons I outlined above. If you want to buy it, then that is cool too. Good luck with your project and happy flying! Richard


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:17:14 AM PST US
    From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
    Subject: IFR GPS requirements
    Bob, This inspector said he has done over 50 field inspections via 337 in experimental aircraft in the Kansas City area. He did not say who the submitting agency was, but I believe it was a repair station that he has oversight responsibility. Strange. I will take everyone's advice and quietly stay back away from the FAA and proceed. I have done a flight test in visual conditions performing GPS approaches (as well as LOC/ILS approaches) and all went great. Thanks for your input. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> At 09:39 PM 1/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Hello All, > > >I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During >discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to >use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field >approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the >experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type >Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on >this subject. It would be interesting to see who he recommends for an IA to sign this off! Assuming you can get it submitted, it would be interesting to watch what happens to the document once it hit the appropriate offices for approval and filing. 337's are the equivalent of a one-time STC against a particular certificated airframe. The guys here tell me to install it, go fly it, satisfy yourself that it is functioning as advertised and be done with it. Be cautious about getting into any serious discussions with a bureaucrat. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:33:52 AM PST US
    From: " Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence@mbdi.org>
    Subject: Re: IFR GPS requirements
    Bill I did a bit of research on this subject last year. The FAA inspector is WRONG! Peter Laurence ----- Original Message ----- From: William Gill To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements Hello All, I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on this subject. Bill RV-7 Lee's Summit, MO


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:51:12 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage
    Ron Quillin wrote: > <rjquillin@gmail.com> > > At 20:16 1/15/2008, you wrote: >> >> Sorry to drift off topic, but chalk it up to Remote Hangar >> Power-Supply Project. >> >> I've got a couple solar (PV) panels, each rated 48 watt, 3 amp @ 16 >> volts, 18-19 volts open circuit. Problem is that I bought an >> inverter that has a 15.5 high-voltage cutoff, so no worky for 110a/c. >> My question(s): >> If I got a "Solar Charge Controller", designed to limit charge into >> batteries, could I use it to supply the inverter ?? >> >> And how about a 12-v. resistive load, or pump/fan motors, (no >> inverter) that would pull down the voltage at max draw ?? ... >> assuming the charge controller could handle the current. >> >> Any other ideas for regulating 16 v down to a usable 13-14 (for 6 A.) >> >> Thanks in advance for any advice. >> --Richard V., 601xl in a cold shop in KC > > Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel? > > Ron Q. My thought exactly. This will have the added advantage of allowing you to draw more than 6amps on the rare occasion that you need it.


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:56:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage
    From: "vozzen" <vozzen@yahoo.com>
    >Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel? I really wanted to see what was possible without a battery... --RJV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158503#158503


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:02:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    From: "N395V" <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
    > Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind your BMA? > > About 700hrs. > > What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it and are forced to love it. > > Yeah, My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work . -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:10:59 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: IFR GPS requirements
    1/16/2008 Hello Bill, Avoid that poor soul -- he has not been around long enough or cared enough to learn that type certificated aircraft and amateur built experimental aircraft are treated very differently in the FAA's paperwork system. What he has described in the way of paperwork approval just simply does not apply to your airplane. Here is a quote from the signature section of the FAA Form 337: "I certify that the repair and/or alteration made to the unit(s) identified in item 5 above and described on the reverse or attachments hereto have been made in accordance with the requirements of Part 43 of the U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations and that the information furnished herein is true and correct to the best of my knowledge." And here is a quote from FAR Part 43.1: "(b) This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft." Since part 43 does not apply to amateur built aircraft issued a Special Airworthiness Certificate in the Experimental Category for the purpose of operating amateur-built aircraft (FAR 21.191 (g)) how can one properly comply with the signature certification requirement on the FAA Form 337? Several years ago a poster described his mistaken attempt to comply with all FAA type certificated regulatory and advisory circular requirements for the IFR GPS installation in his amateur built experimental airplane. He even flew a test flight with a terrified FAA inspector who spent the entire flight frantically looking out the window in fear of a mid air collision. The entire effort was wasted because no FAA agency or procedure for the approval existed -- just initial erroneous assumptions by uninformed FAA employees. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ----------------------------------------- From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>Subject: IFR GPS requirements Hello All, I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to use this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field approval, and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on this subject. Bill RV-7 Lee's Summit, MO


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:50:54 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: IFR GPS requirements
    Peter, et al, It depends on what the inspector wrote into you ops limits. If he referenced 91.205 as a requirement for IFR flight, then you must get the system tested by an FAA certified shop. If not you can proceed as you wish. In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11: "After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated VFR day only." Rick Girard On Jan 16, 2008 7:27 AM, Peter Laurence <Dr.Laurence@mbdi.org> wrote: > Bill > > I did a bit of research on this subject last year. The FAA inspector is > WRONG! > > Peter Laurence > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* William Gill <wgill10@comcast.net> > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:39 PM > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements > > Hello All, > > > I have a Bendix-King KLN 94 GPS (IFR certified unit) in an RV-7. During > discussions with an FAA inspector, I was told that I was not allowed to use > this unit for IFR use until I completed a 337 form with a field approval, > and completed the required test flight. I was not aware that the > experimental ships had to jump through the same hoops as the Type > Certificated aircraft. Can this possibly be true? I welcome all input on > this subject. > > > Bill > > RV-7 > > Lee's Summit, MO > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:53:02 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage
    vozzen wrote: > > >> Why not just dump them into a battery and the inverter in parallel? >> > > I really wanted to see what was possible without a battery... > --RJV > > You can operate without a battery. Anything is possible, if you throw enough money at it. But the utility you will get from a couple of batteries will be by far the biggest bang for the buck. Not only will they let you have an occasional large power draw that the panels wouldn't support, but they will let you have limited power at night or when it's cloudy. If you're rotating cheap batteries as Bob suggests, then you should be able to rotate the 2yr old battery into a "solar panel support" position. A spare lawn tractor battery would suffice until it's time to rotate one in from the airplane. The batteries should last a LONG time, being constantly charged and only occasionally drained, so you can keep adding capacity by hooking more up in series as they rotate out of the plane. Again, it's possible to solve the problem with some creative electronics. You could chop the panel's DC to create AC, then run that through a regulator, then rectify it back to DC. Or you could put a large capacitor and enough Zener diodes to handle 6amps across the panel's output. What you'll end up with is some electronics to maintain, without the added benefits of the stored capacity. You'll spend a lot more than the $30 battery will cost, even if you kit and build it yourself.


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:04:45 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    Milt, You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :) Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> > Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind your BMA? > > About 700hrs. > > What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it and are forced to love it. > > Yeah, My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work . -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505 10/2/2007 11:10 AM 10/2/2007 11:10 AM


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:07:15 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: IFR GPS requirements
    Good Morning Rick, That is exactly the way it should read! The next step is to equip it in accordance with the specifications of 14 CFR Part 91, section 91.205 for the type of flight you wish to conduct and make an entry into the ship's papers stating that you have done so. No need to change anything on your ops spec and no need to contact any Fed. Just install the equipment and test it in accordance with the manufacturers directions. As long as you have the proper equipment, just hop in the machine and go fly IFR and/or night Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 1/16/2008 8:53:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, jindoguy@gmail.com writes: In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11: "After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated VFR day only." Rick Girard **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:29:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    From: "N395V" <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
    mlas(at)cox.net wrote: > Milt, > > You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :) > > Mike > > -- Nah! they are way too ugly to marry but it is a short flight to the shop. In all seriousness though I am lucky in that my units have functioned well and I have had a pleasant experience when interacting with them. I do know many BMA owners who rightfully are really pissed off at them and have had nothing but trouble with their units and have had anything but a pleasant experience in attempting to obtain service. Also know a lot of BMA owners who got the unit, slapped it in their plane and tried to use it without ever looking at the install manual, installed them incorrectly nand then raised hell with BMA. I think currently BMAs major problem is support for the older units. They do not have enough staff to fully bring the Gen 4s online and support the gen1s and 3s at the same time. Their G4 launch was a real nightmare for those who needed their units in a timely fashion. (timely meaning on the date promised) I do not think BMA or its owners are unethical or do not care about their customers I think they are exceedingly brilliant techno geeks who hadn't a clue on how to run a company and had no knowledge of consumer relations. Hopefully they have learned a lesson and hopefully will survive the past and continue to grow. While I am a happy customer and an unashamed supporter I do recognize the problems they have had and the problems they still have. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158533#158533


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:34:25 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: IFR GPS requirements
    At 05:13 AM 1/16/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Bob, > >This inspector said he has done over 50 field inspections via 337 in >experimental aircraft in the Kansas City area. He did not say who the >submitting agency was, but I believe it was a repair station that he has >oversight responsibility. Strange. I will take everyone's advice and >quietly stay back away from the FAA and proceed. I have done a flight >test in visual conditions performing GPS approaches (as well as LOC/ILS >approaches) and all went great. Thanks for your input. > >Bill What he "has done" compared to what he is supposed "to do" may have some serious disconnect here. But then KC is the home of the Small Aircraft Directorate. As Thomas Paine noted many moons ago: When subject to dictatorships, monarchy, or oligarchy, at least we KNOW the source from which our irritations emanate. With democracies, we can only just begin to perceive the major players in a mass of individuals who's power needs to be metered through constitutional boundaries. It would not surprise me that what was recited to you by this individual was a portent of things to come. After all, the FAA is only here to help! With the numbers of TC light aircraft dwindling, he's only looking for more things to do. The prohibition against night and/or IFR flight speaks only to having the necessary equipment under part 91 rules to safely conduct such operations. It does not speak to whether it's silver plated, platinum plated, or holy-watered by individuals knighted by the oligarchy. A wise mentor of many years ago once advised me never to ask a question of anyone with power unless I already knew what that answer would be. Seems like a silly notion but as I grew older, it made a lot of sense. Folks with much power over my life leave a trail of activities that can be researched for predictors of their answers. If you don't like what the answer is going to be, then don't ask it. It many cases, the expenditure of $time$ to receive permission far exceeds the $time$ expended to beg forgiveness. So sifting through the pile of wreckage after bagging your remains they discover that your GPS was not holy-watered . . . what are they going to do, fine you? Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:02:13 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest in any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating daily. Bob created this site for information exchange, how about keeping it that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous apologies to political hacks. Enough, please. Rick Girard On Jan 16, 2008 9:01 AM, Mike <mlas@cox.net> wrote: > > Milt, > > You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :) > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of N395V > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS > > <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> > > > > Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind > your BMA? > > > > > > > About 700hrs. > > > > > > What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to > support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it > and are forced to love it. > > > > > > > Yeah, > > My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess > I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work > . > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505 > > > 10/2/2007 11:10 AM > > > 10/2/2007 11:10 AM > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 08:36:00 AM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    Rick, Go look up reading between the lines=85. The intended reader got it! Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:59 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest in any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating daily. Bob created this site for information exchange, how about keeping it that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous apologies to political hacks. Enough, please. Rick Girard On Jan 16, 2008 9:01 AM, Mike <HYPERLINK "mailto:mlas@cox.net" \nmlas@cox.net> wrote: "mailto:mlas@cox.net" \nmlas@cox.net> Milt, You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :) Mike -----Original Message----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com" \nowner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com" \n owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM \naeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS <HYPERLINK "mailto:Bearcat@bearcataviation.com" \nBearcat@bearcataviation.com> > Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind your BMA? > > About 700hrs. > > What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it and are forced to love it. > > Yeah, My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work . -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" \nhttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505 HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" \n HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" \n HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" =========== HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" HYPERLINK "http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505" "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion 10/2/2007 11:10 AM 10/2/2007 11:10 AM


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:52:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
    Rick, The postings aren't necessarily insults and attacks; they are just raw data. We're all grown ups. It would be nice, but not necessary, that posting be routed through a "pleasantness filter", but I suspect everyone is able to do their own receipt inspection of the information and recalibrate it as necessary. Sugar coating is best left to cakes and donuts. I've seen postings, pro and con, on the BMA matter and take it all at face value as I'm sure others do. Bob prefers posting be tilted more toward facts and conclusions based on repeatable data. Unfortunately, in this matter, its virtually impossible to conduct objective testing that's useful for the potential buyer/user. In this case, we are stuck with reliance on anecdotal observations and subjective opinions. I personally don't put great weight in any one anecdotal observation, but as the observations, objective or subjective, continue to pile up on one side of the ledger, then at some point I decide that yes, that may be useful information. Even if some of the postings were quite blunt, even harsh, I don't perceive it as a coordinated attack against any individual, company or product. If there happens to be a large number of unhappy users, then that is the problem of the Seller and his product, not of the individuals who posted their personal experience, even if in colorful and direct language. So, the open exchanges of information is commission no great sin, but useful information has been exchanged that can be used as seen appropriate. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest in any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating daily. Bob created this site for information exchange, how about keeping it that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous apologies to political hacks. Enough, please. Rick Girard On Jan 16, 2008 9:01 AM, Mike < mlas@cox.net> wrote: Milt, You must live next door to the shop or married into the family. :) Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of N395V Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS < Bearcat@bearcataviation.com> > Just Curious, how many successfull flight hours do you have behind your BMA? > > About 700hrs. > > What I think is funny, is that people who don?t have one want to support it, or people who spent all the money they had are stuck with it and are forced to love it. > > Yeah, My first two units sucked so bad I felt compelled to buy 3 more guess I'm just lucky that my 5 units are the only ones in the world that work . -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158505#158505>


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:52:21 AM PST US
    From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    Couldn't agree more. I'm totally tired of the BMA bashing. Let's get back to the basics. On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:58 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > Guys, I don't own an EFIS of any kind. I have no personal interest > in any of this except in the ad hominem attacks that are escalating > daily. Bob created this site for information exchange, how about > keeping it that way and leave the personal insults and disingenuous > apologies to political hacks. Enough, please. > > Rick Girard


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:42:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Question about Annunciating Lights
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Found a nice example while browsing. Why build anything? Just install the lights in the panel and label to suit. http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Installations/RobbinsPanel.JPG -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:18 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights --> <bferrell@123mail.net> I made my panel out of Honeywell microswitches. It's not really a cheap way, but the results are nice, and it's fairly straight-forward, with "dead face" (labels so you KNOW the lamp is out, because it cannot be read unless illuminated from behind). I also built a push-to-test circuit. http://www.velocityxl.com/Electrical.htm (just the pictures) http://www.velocityxl.com/annunciator.JPG http://www.velocityxl.com/press_to_test.JPG http://www.velocityxl.com/IMAGES2/GRT3.JPG I bought mine from these folks http://www.fmw411.com/ Brett Quoting Carl Morgan <zk-vii@rvproject.gen.nz>: > I took Mark's work as a basis, and this is what I ended up with.... > > Close up: http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/photos/2007-06/Web_Img_9760.jpg > > http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-07-28.html the > final look, > > > http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-18.html and > http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-19.html for some > of the fabrication process. > > Just another possible source of ideas. > > Carl > > -- > Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A - Inspection next Tue! > http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > Fiveonepw@aol.com > Sent: 10 January 2008 18:14 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights > > > Here's another take on rollin' yer own: > > > http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126 > > Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info > (several > pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc... > > From The PossumWorks in TN > Mark Phillips > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > -- > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. > > > 10:16 >


    Message 20


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    Time: 11:04:15 AM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: IFR (GPS) requirements
    Right on! Hello (Old) Bob, Rick, Night or IFR for OBAM or production aircraft is a function of how equipped (per FAA requirements for night or IFR equipment) and whether such equipment has been checked as required (e.g. 24 months for pitot-static, X-ponder, 30 days VOR check, currency of GPS data bases as required by the manufacturer, etc.) rather than pre-approval by the FAA in the ops specs. It can be gained (or lost) by the owner/operator at any time after airworthiness is obtained. No need for FAA involvement. If I filed IFR and an inspector meets me after landing for a ramp check, I'd have to show the required IFR equipment (also as logged entries) and that the required checks have been complied with. Some production aircraft are "certified" for "Night flight" from the factory, which nothing more than meaning the required equipment for night flight was installed, checked, and properly placarded. If e.g. my nav light became inoperative, I am no longer "night" "certified". Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from BobsV35B@aol.com; Date: 10:04 AM 1/16/2008 EST) ________________________________________________________________ Good Morning Rick, That is exactly the way it should read! The next step is to equip it in accordance with the specifications of 14 CFR Part 91, section 91.205 for the type of flight you wish to conduct and make an entry into the ship's papers stating that you have done so. No need to change anything on your ops spec and no need to contact any Fed. Just install the equipment and test it in accordance with the manufacturers directions. As long as you have the proper equipment, just hop in the machine and go fly IFR and/or night Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 1/16/2008 8:53:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, jindoguy@gmail.com writes: In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11: "After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated VFR day only." Rick Girard


    Message 21


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    Time: 01:59:56 PM PST US
    From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain EFISBlue Mountain
    EFIS As often happens during forum debates, we tend to veer from the original qu estion and digress into personalities. FWIW, I'm now wiring the panel in my -8A, and spent more time by far on the EFIS decision than any other compon ent over the past 3 years (hey, I may be old, but I'm awfully slow). My goi ng in PANEL requirements were an IFR capability (please do not start a deba te on whether RVs are really IFR airplanes - I have significant IFR experie nce and wanted my plane to have the capability if I wanted to ever exercise it). That implied an HSI and ILS capability, and the ability to tie to a G PS and SL30. Display could be a 106 or internal to the EFIS. Reliability ma tters. So does customer relations. Just like the basic safety rule of aviat ion: Listen to the experiences of others - you can't possibly live long eno ugh to experience them all yourself. Word of mouth reputation matters, but should be taken as a subjective assessment unless hard data is presented. C ost was a concern, but not the driver. Autopilot compatibility was also att ractive. I initially ranked BMA ahead of GRT, with Dynon third (because of lack of H IS stuff at the time). As I researched more, GRT became first choice. Then AFS came out with the 3500. After talking to them and learning more about t he company and the reputation of their other products, I settled on an AFS 3500 and a TruTrak ADI Pilot. No regrets - customer service from both compa nies has been outstanding, and the capabilities of the 3500 satisfy all my personal requirements at reasonable cost. Even though I am over a year from first flight, I have continued to acquire additional EFIS knowledge - and haven't found anything yet to imply I made an incorrect - or even marginal - decision. Rightly or wrongly, in the fast-moving, public world of experimental avioni cs, you're only as good as your last sortie - or customer experience. There was enough unanswered negative stuff about BMA to make me think "Why bothe r", when other companies offered similar or better capabilities at comparab le or affordably higher cost. As always, it gets back to personal requireme nts and personal hot buttons that need to be addressed in satisfying those requirements. There is no cook book. However, a "Do you guys have time to s hoot the breeze about EFIS systems?" call to customer service (with your ho mework already done) of each company will give you some pretty good indicat ors. And another FWIW - I also carefully researched engine choices, and in the e nd paid Bart & Sue at Aerosport over $28K for a new IO-360 - mainly because their approach to customer service resonated so well with me. Other compan ies would have also satisfied my requirements - perhaps even more cheaply - but Bart and Sue had an attitude and approach that worked for me. In this business you will almost never have the 100% solution - and many ti mes not even the 75% solution. Sometimes your ahead if you're only 51% sure . Just like Dirty Harry sez: "Do ya' feel lucky, punk? Well do ya?"


    Message 22


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    Time: 03:09:10 PM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: EFIS screen brightness
    Does anybody know which is the brightness / resolution (in nits) of the AFS-3400 EFIS' displays ? Carlos


    Message 23


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    Time: 03:45:50 PM PST US
    From: "Lee Logan" <leeloganster@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08
    "Being a military guy has nothing to do with it unless you want to pay 85% slouches and 15% good guys to get the job done." Say what? I must have never been introduced to the 85% of Marines I served with who were "slouches"... Glad to discuss this with you personally some time, however... Lee...


    Message 24


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    Time: 05:57:52 PM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS
    Henador Titzoff, Regarding your statement below - you are wrong. But, you have a really cool name. Had you been good enough to join the military, you could have been king of the call signs! What aircraft are you flying/building? Regards, Stan Sutterfield USAF, Ret Do not archive Being a military guy has nothing to do with it unless you want to pay 85% slouches and 15% good guys to get the job done. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 25


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    Time: 07:18:24 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage
    Sorry to drift off topic, but chalk it up to Remote Hangar Power-Supply Project. I've got a couple solar (PV) panels, each rated 48 watt, 3 amp @ 16 volts, 18-19 volts open circuit. Problem is that I bought an inverter that has a 15.5 high-voltage cutoff, so no worky for 110a/c. My question(s): If I got a "Solar Charge Controller", designed to limit charge into batteries, could I use it to supply the inverter ?? Kinda, sorta . . . Solar panels have a significant source impedance. Hence the drop from 19 volts no load to 16 volts at a 3A load. DeltaV of 3 volts divided by DeltaI of 3A yields a source impedance on the order of 1 ohm. Two panels in parallel would drop this to 1/2 ohm for the array. 16 volts would smoke most 12/14v accessories and some accessories would draw less than 6A which boosts the voltage still more. The most "stable" application of solar power is to combine the array with a battery maintainer designed to integrate the array with a rechargeable battery. This allows you to store energy even if you're not using it for the moment (until battery is charged). It also allows you to tax the system with loads much larger than 6A albeit intermittently. And how about a 12-v. resistive load, or pump/fan motors, (no inverter) that would pull down the voltage at max draw ?? ... assuming the charge controller could handle the current. Any other ideas for regulating 16 v down to a usable 13-14 (for 6 A.) A Google search for "solar battery charger" yielded a bucket full of hits . . . a few are cited below. http://tinyurl.com/ybh9wz http://tinyurl.com/246w34 http://tinyurl.com/2c3orf Suggest you team the solar panels with a regulating charger, the largest battery you're willing to acquire and maintain. NOW you have an energy source that will run a pretty hefty inverter and permit you to run a variety of loads rain or shine. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 26


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    Time: 07:29:36 PM PST US
    From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08
    Lee and Stan, You boys are correct. What I meant, per Peter's original email, is military guys = defense contractors that design and produce EFISs and autopilots. I am very proud of our military guys. They are the best in the world. I know many, and I have NEVER met a Marine slouch. I can't say that about the USAF, but nonetheless they are great. My best friend is a major in the USAF, and I am ex-USAF. I like civilian life, though. Henador Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:42:44 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/08 "Being a military guy has nothing to do with it unless you want to pay 85% slouches and 15% good guys to get the job done." Say what? I must have never been introduced to the 85% of Marines I served with who were "slouches"... Glad to discuss this with you personally some time, however... Lee... Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


    Message 27


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    Time: 09:06:36 PM PST US
    From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
    Subject: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ?
    Hello List I am getting ready to order some parts for my OBAM aircraft electrical system and would like to verify I have found the correct Diode Bridge per note #24 in appendix Z. I found this at digi key Is it the correct part? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GBPC3502A-N D My next question is how big of a heat sink do I need for it if the device getting power from it draws about 6 amps? Thanks in advance Jeff.


    Message 28


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    Time: 09:42:11 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ?
    At 11:00 PM 1/16/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Hello List > >I am getting ready to order some parts for my OBAM aircraft electrical >system and would like to verify I have found the correct Diode Bridge per >note #24 in appendix Z. > >I found this at digi key >Is it the correct part? >http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GBPC3502A-N >D > >My next question is how big of a heat sink do I need for it if the device >getting power from it draws about 6 amps? Mount it to any metal surface and it will be fine. Bob . . .


    Message 29


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    Time: 09:47:28 PM PST US
    From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook@cox.net>
    Subject: EFIS screen brightness
    Rob at AFS should be able to answer that question. Just go to their website and ask. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, 16 January, 2008 16:06 Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS screen brightness <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> Does anybody know which is the brightness / resolution (in nits) of the AFS-3400 EFIS' displays ? Carlos




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