Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (glen matejcek)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
3. 06:26 AM - Blue Mountain EFIS (James H Nelson)
4. 06:41 AM - Controlling defrost fans (Ralph E. Capen)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: Controlling defrost fans (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 07:56 AM - Re: Controlling defrost fans (jtortho@aol.com)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage (vozzen)
8. 09:25 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Chuck Jensen)
9. 11:05 AM - IFR GPS requirements ()
10. 01:40 PM - Z-11 Main Battery Bus (AlRice)
11. 01:40 PM - IFR GPS requirements (James H Nelson)
12. 02:05 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Bryan)
13. 03:14 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (BobsV35B@aol.com)
14. 05:08 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements (Henry Trzeciakowski)
15. 07:12 PM - Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:44 PM - Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 07:48 PM - Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus (Matt Prather)
18. 08:57 PM - Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus (AlRice)
19. 09:19 PM - IFR (GPS) requirements (Emrath)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: IFR GPS requirements |
Hi Bill et al-
Re: >Hello Bill, Avoid that poor soul -- he has not been around long
enough or
>cared enough to learn that type certificated aircraft and amateur built
>experimental aircraft are treated very differently in the FAA's paperwork
>system.
While I greatly appreciate and highly regard and respect the source of that
comment, I couldn't disagree more. If this inspector has run 50
unnecessary 337's through the system, he has cost a lot of people a lot of
money, spread misinformation across the system, and will no doubt cause
other improperly educated or motivated inspectors to take the
'conservative' (ignorant) route at our collective expense. In other words,
there has been a gross misuse of governmental power. These kinds of topics
have gone to DC and back via OSH, and we have the tools to correct the
problem you are facing.
My personal experience with an amateur built rule hose-up was to be very
(politely) clear with the person involved about the nature and basis for
our disconnect, and then call OSH with the details. Within 24 hours they
had achieved understanding with the head of the directorate involved, and
within another 24 the fed involved had been re-educated. That ended the
problem for me, and, presumably, everyone who came along after.
Also, the feds now have a program to handle customer service issues in
house. As I understand it, it's the equivalent of 'let me speak to your
supervisor', although I don't recall the precise terminology. Mike, can
you fill us in?
While I don't advocate getting into hostile conflicts with The Man, I
strongly urge you (and anyone else having bogus reg interpretation issues)
to fight the good fight with the resources we have developed and paid for
through our EAA dues and those gate fees at OSH we are all unhappy about.
Heck, Brian got a law in Jacksonville repealed with a little help from his
friends. What's one confused inspector?
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Note #24 in appendix Z part number ? |
Bob, Thanks for the quick reply about the heat sink, so that does mean that
I found the correct part for this function at digikey ?
Info shows:
Technical/Catalog Information
GBPC3502A-ND
<http://rocky.digikey.com/scripts/ProductInfo.dll?Site=US&V=698&M=GBPC3502A>
Standard Package <http://dkc1.digikey.com/US/EN/help/help14.html>
100
Category
Discrete Semiconductor Products
Family
Bridge Rectifiers
Vendor
Vishay IR <http://www.digikey.com/scripts/Redirect/Redirect.dll?R=9&V=698>
Diode/Rectifier Type
Single Phase
Voltage - Rated
200V
Current Rating
35A
Package / Case
GBPC-A
Packaging
Bulk
Speed
Standard Recovery > 200mA
Reverse Recovery Time (trr)
-
Lead Free Status
Lead free
RoHS Status
RoHS compliant
Other Names
*GBPC3502A
GBPC3502A
GBPC3502A-ND
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Note #24 in appendix Z part number ?
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 11:00 PM 1/16/2008 -0600, you wrote:
<jskiba@icosa.net>
>
>Hello List
>
>I am getting ready to order some parts for my OBAM aircraft electrical
>system and would like to verify I have found the correct Diode Bridge per
>note #24 in appendix Z.
>
>I found this at digi key
>Is it the correct part?
>http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GBPC3502A-
N
>D
>
>My next question is how big of a heat sink do I need for it if the device
>getting power from it draws about 6 amps?
Mount it to any metal surface and it
will be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Hi Stan,
His reference must be of the "civilian" world. I run a small
business and with all the customer interface, I can verify the 85 / 15
do'ers and riders. I think he is overly optimistic on the 85 /15, I
think it is really 90 / 10.
Jim Nelson
Retired: US Army (aviation)
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Controlling defrost fans |
I have a pair of 1.5"x1.5" fans (Radio Shack 273-240) mounted forward of the instrument
panel on my 6A slider - think about the intersection of the support bulkhead
parallel and forward of the instrument panel and the ribs that point aft
that support the top of the instrument panel in three places.
I am wondering if a straight on-off switch is sufficient or should I put in a rheostat
to control the fan speed? KISS would dictate that a simple on-off switch
would work - but has anyone out there wished for a half-speed?
Here on the DelMarVa peninsula - I'm certain that I'll need it on a regular basis
Thanks,
Ralph
Message 5
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| Subject: | Controlling defrost fans |
I doubt it...Just give it full blast to de-mist then shut them off...Once your
flying I doubt you'll ever turn 'em back on.
I wish I had installed a fan now too on my tip up in Western oregon
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:36 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Controlling defrost fans
--> <recapen@earthlink.net>
I have a pair of 1.5"x1.5" fans (Radio Shack 273-240) mounted forward of the instrument
panel on my 6A slider - think about the intersection of the support bulkhead
parallel and forward of the instrument panel and the ribs that point aft
that support the top of the instrument panel in three places.
I am wondering if a straight on-off switch is sufficient or should I put in a rheostat
to control the fan speed? KISS would dictate that a simple on-off switch
would work - but has anyone out there wished for a half-speed?
Here on the DelMarVa peninsula - I'm certain that I'll need it on a regular basis
Thanks,
Ralph
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Controlling defrost fans |
I just put a 5 ohm resistor across a SPDT switch to give a? high-off-low option.
Works great in the garage, but not flying yet.
Jim Timoney
-----Original Message-----
From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:15 am
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Controlling defrost fans
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
I doubt it...Just give it full blast to de-mist then shut them off...Once your
flying I doubt you'll ever turn 'em back on.
I wish I had installed a fan now too on my tip up in Western oregon
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:36 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Controlling defrost fans
--> <recapen@earthlink.net>
I have a pair of 1.5"x1.5" fans (Radio Shack 273-240) mounted forward of the
instrument panel on my 6A slider - think about the intersection of the support
bulkhead parallel and forward of the instrument panel and the ribs that point
aft that support the top of the instrument panel in three places.
I am wondering if a straight on-off switch is sufficient or should I put in a
rheostat to control the fan speed? KISS would dictate that a simple on-off
switch would work - but has anyone out there wished for a half-speed?
Here on the DelMarVa peninsula - I'm certain that I'll need it on a regular
basis
Thanks,
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: OT-- Solar panel overvoltage |
> Suggest you team the solar panels with a regulating
charger, the largest battery
Yep, those are the charge controllers I'd looked at, and I understand the role
of the battery.
I had tested a direct-driven 12v. boat bilge pump (1.5A) in a water-garden-fish-pond,
but found the 16-18v roasted the pump (it did work for a whole summer).
Other thought was for an attic exhaust fan-- but without controller, will have
same problem.
Will head down to local H.F. Chinese outlet store, get a controller, and go from
there.
Thanks, Bob, and others, for suggestions.
--RJV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158804#158804
Message 8
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS |
Jim,
The 90:10 ratio of spear carriers to spear throwers is about right.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James
H Nelson
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blue Mountain EFIS
Hi Stan,
His reference must be of the "civilian" world. I run a small
business and with all the customer interface, I can verify the 85 / 15
do'ers and riders. I think he is overly optimistic on the 85 /15, I
think it is really 90 / 10.
Jim Nelson
Retired: US Army (aviation)
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | IFR GPS requirements |
1/17/2008
Hello Rick, Thanks for your input and interest in this subject. You wrote:
1) "It depends on what the inspector wrote into you ops limits."
The FAA Inspector or DAR is directed by FAA Order 8130.2_ (edition F, with
change 3 incorporated is the current version) what to write into the
Operating Limitations when issuing the Special Airworthiness Certificate for
an amateur built experimental aircraft. His prerogative to ad lib in this
specific area (IFR GPS requirements) is extremely limited to non existent.
2) "If he referenced 91.205 as a requirement for IFR flight, then you must
get the
system tested by an FAA certified shop." and "If not you can proceed as you
wish."
These two statements are misleading / incorrect.
2A) First off, There is no "if" about it. He most certainly will reference
91.205 as a requirement for IFR flight. He will do this by incorporating
this statement into the Operating Limitations: "After completion of phase 1
testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in
accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated VFR day only." See
paragraph 1 above.
2B) Second, Other than the normal regulatory requirements for periodic
inspections of the altitude encoder, the altimeter, and the transponder
(these inspection requirements also apply to type certificated aircraft)
there is no requirement to "get the system tested by an FAA certified shop."
2C) Third, It is not clear what you mean when you write the word "system".
I have prepared a table that serves as a quick reference on this subject:
MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT
EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT.
I will email a copy of this table to any reader requesting it.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
-------------------------------------------------------
Time: 06:50:54 AM PST US
From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements
Peter, et al, It depends on what the inspector wrote into you ops limits. If
he referenced 91.205 as a requirement for IFR flight, then you must get the
system tested by an FAA certified shop. If not you can proceed as you wish.
In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11:
"After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for
night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is
to be operated VFR day only."
Rick Girard
Message 10
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| Subject: | Z-11 Main Battery Bus |
Bob:
On diagrams Z-11 and Z-13 I notice that you have the Hobbs meter powered off the
main battery bus which is on all the time. Shouldn't the Hobbs come off the
main power bus instead?
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158861#158861
Message 11
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| Subject: | IFR GPS requirements |
Hi Bob,
Could you send me a copy of the list? I am setting up for lite
IFR but having the right stuff is important also.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
RV9-A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Bob,
I could sure use a copy of your table.
Thank You,
Bryan
>
> I have prepared a table that serves as a quick reference on this subject:
>
> MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT
> EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT.
>
> I will email a copy of this table to any reader requesting it.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Good Afternoon OC,
I would appreciate a copy of your listing!
_BobsV35B@aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com)
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/17/2008 1:07:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
bakerocb@cox.net writes:
MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR POWERED AMATEUR BUILT
EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT.
I will email a copy of this table to any reader requesting it.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements |
Good evening OC:
I also would appreciate a copy.
Thanks
hammer408@comcast.net
Henry
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements
Good Afternoon OC,
I would appreciate a copy of your listing!
BobsV35B@aol.com
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/17/2008 1:07:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
bakerocb@cox.net writes:
MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR POWERED AMATEUR
BUILT
EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT.
I will email a copy of this table to any reader requesting it.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather
and
understand knowledge."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus |
At 01:36 PM 1/17/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Bob:
>On diagrams Z-11 and Z-13 I notice that you have the Hobbs meter powered
>off the main battery bus which is on all the time. Shouldn't the Hobbs
>come off the main power bus instead?
A Hobbs may be POWERED by the battery bus (as it is
in virtually ALL Cessna single engine aircraft) it is
CONTROLLED by an oil pressure switch so that it records
engine run time, not bus hot time.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Oil_Pressure/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
Bob . . .
>--------
>Al Rice
>Skybolt 260
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158861#158861
>
>
>--
>9:01 AM
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus |
Good Evening Al Rice,
For What It Is Worth!
It is done that way to make it more difficult for the thieves who would turn
the Master Switch off in an effort to cheat the FBO!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/17/2008 9:14:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nuckolls.bob@cox.net writes:
A Hobbs may be POWERED by the battery bus (as it is
in virtually ALL Cessna single engine aircraft) it is
CONTROLLED by an oil pressure switch so that it records
engine run time, not bus hot time.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Oil_Pressure/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
Bob . . .
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus |
Keeps the FBO's renting out airplanes in business... :)
Matt-
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 01:36 PM 1/17/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Bob:
>>On diagrams Z-11 and Z-13 I notice that you have the Hobbs meter powered
>>off the main battery bus which is on all the time. Shouldn't the Hobbs
>>come off the main power bus instead?
>
> A Hobbs may be POWERED by the battery bus (as it is
> in virtually ALL Cessna single engine aircraft) it is
> CONTROLLED by an oil pressure switch so that it records
> engine run time, not bus hot time.
>
> See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Engine/Oil_Pressure/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>>--------
>>Al Rice
>>Skybolt 260
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158861#158861
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>9:01 AM
>>
>>
>>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Z-11 Main Battery Bus |
I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.
--------
Al Rice
Skybolt 260
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158963#158963
Message 19
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| Subject: | IFR (GPS) requirements |
Please clarify the statements make by Old Bob and Rumen. What entries are
to be made to the logs showing the the required IFR equipment is installed?
Or are we just saying the installation has been tested and proven/observed
to be satisfactory? Can you give us the wording for the papers, I assume in
the aircraft log, not the engine or prop logs.
Marty in Brentwood TN
Time: 11:04:15 AM PST US
From: rd2@evenlink.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: IFR (GPS) requirements
Right on!
Hello (Old) Bob, Rick,
Night or IFR for OBAM or production aircraft is a function of how equipped
(per FAA requirements for night or IFR equipment) and whether such equipment
has been checked as required (e.g. 24 months for pitot-static, X-ponder, 30
days VOR check, currency of GPS data bases as required by the manufacturer,
etc.) rather than pre-approval by the FAA in the ops specs.
It can be gained (or lost) by the owner/operator at any time after
airworthiness is obtained. No need for FAA involvement.
If I filed IFR and an inspector meets me after landing for a ramp check, I'd
have to show the required IFR equipment (also as logged entries) and that
the required checks have been complied with.
Some production aircraft are "certified" for "Night flight" from the
factory, which nothing more than meaning the required equipment for night
flight was installed, checked, and properly placarded. If e.g. my nav light
became inoperative, I am no longer "night" "certified".
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from BobsV35B@aol.com; Date: 10:04 AM 1/16/2008
EST) ________________________________________________________________
Good Morning Rick,
That is exactly the way it should read!
The next step is to equip it in accordance with the specifications of 14 CFR
Part 91, section 91.205 for the type of flight you wish to conduct and make
an entry into the ship's papers stating that you have done so.
No need to change anything on your ops spec and no need to contact any Fed.
Just install the equipment and test it in accordance with the manufacturers
directions. As long as you have the proper equipment, just hop in the
machine and go fly IFR and/or night
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/16/2008 8:53:03 A.M. Central Standard Time,
jindoguy@gmail.com writes: In the Ops Limits I received yesterday, Item 11:
"After completion of phase 1 testing, unless appropriately equipped for
night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is
to be operated VFR day only."
Rick Girard
Marty
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