---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/23/08: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:49 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Speedy11@aol.com) 2. 07:00 AM - Re: LED Lighting (Speedy11@aol.com) 3. 07:39 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (rampil) 4. 09:19 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (CharlieTango) 5. 01:19 PM - Re: Mode S & 430 - Was Blue Mountain EFIS (Peter Pengilly) 6. 03:31 PM - Re: LED Lighting (dj45) 7. 03:33 PM - TurboCAD software at a discount (jayb) 8. 04:10 PM - Re: Mode S & 430 - Was Blue Mountain EFIS (rampil) 9. 05:41 PM - Re: TurboCAD software at a discount (B Tomm) 10. 10:10 PM - Re: Re: Mode S & 430 - Was Blue Mountain EFIS (Werner Schneider) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:07 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS Ira, Nice response. And, in my opinion, accurate. Stan Sutterfield Hi All, This thread about BMA has made for interesting reading over the past few days. I've enjoyed it and feel modestly motivated to weigh in. I am a BMA customer, in fact, one of the first E/1 black plastic boxes came to me. Why did I choose it? Features for price, an analysis that, in my eyes is as true today as it was 6 years ago. I upgraded to the gold box when it was available, and just recently replaced it with a Gen4 E/2. Yes, I paid the freight and kept going with BMA. The original up to the Gen3 models got a bad rep for what I consider a poor reason. The original schema was completely flexible in its input configuration. That meant for people like me with a rotax, could use the probes that came with the engine, any probes would work. They just needed to be calibrated, a concept it turns out in practice was foreign to many builders, "system integrators (I think panel builders is a far more accurate description BTW)", and especially non-building owners of experimental aircraft. It turns out, most of the general aviation never calibrates anything except the mandated encoder. This is really sloppy practice for non-mated sensor / indicators, especially when they are non mil or medical grade. My little experience informs me that you cant expect better than 10%, maybe 20% accuracy in an automotive sensor unless you calibrate it to the indicator. How many people calibrate their oil temp and pressure probes on their RV? Not many. Does the 10% really matter, not really in most applications. But the BMA required calibration. The BMA also had its ADCs outside the engine compartment and the repeated warnings about low resistance gounds to the battery and engine block were apparently inadequate for many people. Digital avionics and low level voltage signals just require more care in grounding and layout than older analog systems, especially in composite airframes (like mine). I will certainly grant you that the manuals are a bit sparse, but then I always found that the telephone worked for me. For what Greg has told me, most problematic installations eventually work once external wiring errors are caught and corrected. The BMA guys sought to simplify installation wiring by mandating a fixed set of sensors, none of which are unipolar and return back through the engine block. Wiring is now much simpler as I can attest in my own install last month. Calibration is no longer needed. I think that BMA will be out with a skin for the Rotax engines soon so I can integrate the VDO sensors built in to the engine. The stuff works and I believe it provides the most advanced EFIS functions for the price. It is also among the simplest to use in flight. So there have been some problems with the company. I see these kinds of issues in IT all the time. Greg chose the brand-new at the time SISC CPU chip for Gen 1-2. Many thought SISC would win out the future of computing over CISC chips like the Pentium. It was faster and cheaper right up until SISC guys went out of business. No more parts. No evolution of SISC. Technology moves fast, airplane building slow. I bought early, so do most. Some get more burned than others. Anyone want a Mode S transponder? ANyone want a 430, I heard the WAAS upgrade will be simple and very cheap! Most of Gen3 features worked out the door, but some did not. Some worked for some owners and not for others. More strenuous beta testing might help. Again not very different for many vendors from airframe kits to headsets. Ever hear of ADs? I don't work for Greg, et al, I'm just a customer who has appreciated life on the bleeding edge with my experimental aircraft. You might even find me at the BMA booth at SnF talking about my experience in using the EFIS for nearly 4 years. I am always delighted to talk to fellow listers ;-) Cheers -------- Ira N224XS **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:10 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting Dan, As Bevan mentioned, aeroleds.com is manufacturing two LED based landing/taxi/recognition lights. I don't know if they perform well as I haven't seen them in person yet. I was on the verge of ordering a pair when I discovered they have a 10% restocking fee. That, in my opinion, is too high, so I didn't order them. I would like to try them out - and if suitable I would keep them. I'm experimenting with 1W LEDs with optics and it appears you can produce enough illumination with multiple LEDs to at least make an acceptable taxi/recognition light. I'm not yet convinced they will suffice for a landing light. I'm also experimenting with MR-16 lights, but they get very hot and would require cooling to be mounted in an enclosed wingtip. I intend to use HIDs for the landing lights and perhaps the Aerosun Lite for the taxi/recognition light. Stan Sutterfield _www.rv-8a.net_ (http://www.rv-8a.net) Has anyone thought much of making LED landing/taxi lights? Just something that might be fun to mess around with. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS From: "rampil" Sorry for the confusion, After medical school, RISC became SISC for me ;-) -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159969#159969 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS From: "CharlieTango" i have 300 hours of flying with a BMA EFIS. first i flew with a gen 4 EFIS Lite Plus, it was the largest unit offered that fit my panel. i fly mostly in the high sierra nevada with terrain up to 14,000'+ all around while limited to 10,000' ( sport pilot limitation ) the bma unit with the synthetic vision was the best choice for me. the vertical and horizontal terrain views are very useful when flying below the surronding terrain. on a flight last year i went imc due to shifting smoke from southern california fires, turning back didn't help. i was without visibility for 40 minutes and was perfectly comfortable with the situational awareness provided by the bma. since then i upgraded to a larger unit, the 9" EFIS / two. i can't imagine ever flying without. the company is matured and they have gone the extra mile in providing service. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159991#159991 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:32 PM PST US From: "Peter Pengilly" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Mode S & 430 - Was Blue Mountain EFIS Hey Ira, Interesting thoughts. If you need to sell a Mode S txpdr or non WAAS 430 you could always send them to Europe. No WAAS and we will all have to have Mode S very soon. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: 22 January 2008 17:27 Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS Hi All, This thread about BMA has made for interesting reading over the past few days. I've enjoyed it and feel modestly motivated to weigh in. I am a BMA customer, in fact, one of the first E/1 black plastic boxes came to me. Why did I choose it? Features for price, an analysis that, in my eyes is as true today as it was 6 years ago. I upgraded to the gold box when it was available, and just recently replaced it with a Gen4 E/2. Yes, I paid the freight and kept going with BMA. The original up to the Gen3 models got a bad rep for what I consider a poor reason. The original schema was completely flexible in its input configuration. That meant for people like me with a rotax, could use the probes that came with the engine, any probes would work. They just needed to be calibrated, a concept it turns out in practice was foreign to many builders, "system integrators (I think panel builders is a far more accurate description BTW)", and especially non-building owners of experimental aircraft. It turns out, most of the general aviation never calibrates anything except the mandated encoder. This is really sloppy practice for non-mated sensor / indicators, especially when they are non mil or medical grade. My little experience informs me that you cant expect better than 10%, maybe 20% accuracy in an automotive sensor unless you calibrate it to the indicator. How many people calibrate their oil temp and pressure probes on their RV? Not many. Does the 10% really matter, not really in most applications. But the BMA required calibration. The BMA also had its ADCs outside the engine compartment and the repeated warnings about low resistance gounds to the battery and engine block were apparently inadequate for many people. Digital avionics and low level voltage signals just require more care in grounding and layout than older analog systems, especially in composite airframes (like mine). I will certainly grant you that the manuals are a bit sparse, but then I always found that the telephone worked for me. For what Greg has told me, most problematic installations eventually work once external wiring errors are caught and corrected. The BMA guys sought to simplify installation wiring by mandating a fixed set of sensors, none of which are unipolar and return back through the engine block. Wiring is now much simpler as I can attest in my own install last month. Calibration is no longer needed. I think that BMA will be out with a skin for the Rotax engines soon so I can integrate the VDO sensors built in to the engine. The stuff works and I believe it provides the most advanced EFIS functions for the price. It is also among the simplest to use in flight. So there have been some problems with the company. I see these kinds of issues in IT all the time. Greg chose the brand-new at the time SISC CPU chip for Gen 1-2. Many thought SISC would win out the future of computing over CISC chips like the Pentium. It was faster and cheaper right up until SISC guys went out of business. No more parts. No evolution of SISC. Technology moves fast, airplane building slow. I bought early, so do most. Some get more burned than others. Anyone want a Mode S transponder? ANyone want a 430, I heard the WAAS upgrade will be simple and very cheap! Most of Gen3 features worked out the door, but some did not. Some worked for some owners and not for others. More strenuous beta testing might help. Again not very different for many vendors from airframe kits to headsets. Ever hear of ADs? I don't work for Greg, et al, I'm just a customer who has appreciated life on the bleeding edge with my experimental aircraft. You might even find me at the BMA booth at SnF talking about my experience in using the EFIS for nearly 4 years. I am always delighted to talk to fellow listers ;-) Cheers -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159780#159780 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:27 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting From: "dj45" Stan, thanks for the reply. How are you coming on the lights? I have just started messing around with them and was wondering if anyone else had come up with anything. I agree about the charge for restocking for something you don't know will be as advertised. -------- Do not archive Dan Stanton N9801S 99.9% Done & Flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160076#160076 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:19 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: TurboCAD software at a discount From: "jayb" I recently purchased a copy of TurboCAD Deluxe 14 from academicsuperstore.com for $70 (including shipping). This price seemed like a really good deal as it retails for $149. Here's the catch... You have to have a student in your household to qualify. Cheers, Jay do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160077#160077 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:24 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mode S & 430 - Was Blue Mountain EFIS From: "rampil" Hi Pete, Sadly, I project there will not be a market in Europe much longer for general aviation products. The EU seems absolutely bound and determined to terminate private flight. A buddy of mine just returned from London, where he tells me a C172 rents for over 200 BPS per hour, thats over $400/hr! Who can afford a used Garmin after that? -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160085#160085 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:07 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: TurboCAD software at a discount You can get it on ebay for less than $20.00. I got mine for less than $20 including shipping. Brand new in a sealed box with the book. It didn't come with very many useful symbols though. I had to purchase those separately for an additional $30.00 Bevan Officially not a student Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: TurboCAD software at a discount --> I recently purchased a copy of TurboCAD Deluxe 14 from academicsuperstore.com for $70 (including shipping). This price seemed like a really good deal as it retails for $149. Here's the catch... You have to have a student in your household to qualify. Cheers, Jay do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160077#160077 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:28 PM PST US From: Werner Schneider Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mode S & 430 - Was Blue Mountain EFIS That's why we build our own planes here as you do in the US! Werner (from Switzerland) rampil wrote: > > Hi Pete, > > Sadly, I project there will not be a market in Europe much longer for > general aviation products. The EU seems absolutely bound and determined > to terminate private flight. A buddy of mine just returned from London, > where he tells me a C172 rents for over 200 BPS per hour, thats over > $400/hr! > > Who can afford a used Garmin after that? > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160085#160085 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.