---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/24/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:00 AM - Mono Isolation Amp - Where to get circuit board? (Craig Winkelmann, CFI) 2. 05:02 AM - Re: TurboCAD software at a discount (jayb) 3. 06:39 AM - Re: LED Lighting (Eric M. Jones) 4. 07:28 AM - Re: MagnaFlite MZ-6222 starter (jayb) 5. 09:27 AM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Re: LED Lighting () 6. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: TurboCAD software at a discount (B Tomm) 7. 12:27 PM - Low Volt Warning breaker (John Tvedte) 8. 02:56 PM - Voltage drop under load (Bill Bradburry) 9. 03:25 PM - Re: LED Lighting (mikef) 10. 03:56 PM - Re: Voltage drop under load (Ken) 11. 03:56 PM - Re: Low Volt Warning breaker (Ken) 12. 04:36 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Rv7flyer) 13. 04:56 PM - Dimmer hookup to Avionics (ronaldcox) 14. 06:31 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (FLAGSTONE) 15. 07:53 PM - Re: LED Lighting (Speedy11@aol.com) 16. 08:21 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Bruce Gray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:52 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mono Isolation Amp - Where to get circuit board? From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" I am adding a second radio to a plane that has no room for a full audio panel without making a whole new panel. I am going to route two coms and one marker beacon to the intercom. I have speced out the switched and dome a wiring diagram. I looked at the Isolation Amp at the AeroElectric web site. However, under parts, I don't see where I can order the circuit board to make the amp (part no 9009-301-2A). Where do I get one? Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160175#160175 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:38 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: TurboCAD software at a discount From: "jayb" You can't find v14 on eBay for anywhere near $20. The lowest I found was $80 + shipping (or up for bids). Good comment about the extra symbols needed though. Sort of like buying a car and then finding out it needs tires to be able to drive. Jay do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160176#160176 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:14 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting From: "Eric M. Jones" I have written about this extensively on this list and IMHO-- 1) Aeroleds is to be saluted for making their led landing and taxi light. There will be many good led products. I have said to interested parties that any led product you can now buy becomes obsolete in the time it takes to develop a product. The design engineer's current nightmare! The best LED product efficiency is nearly 100 lumens/watt and soon will be 150 lumens/watt (7X better than halogens). For experimenters, I recommend you check-- http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.917 Dig around the site until your head spins. Also Kaidoman.com . Cheap prices, fast shipping. Amazing stuff. As for LED landing lights, you could just tape together a few of their big flashlights and do the job cheaply. Check their 20W and 50W leds!!!! Awesome. I still have a couple LED technical notes on my website: www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/aircraft_beacons_using_leds.pdf (out of date now but still interesting). www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/redandgreenledpositionlights.pdf and I still sell the LED tail light, which I have upgraded to a 2X brighter led. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160190#160190 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:29 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: MagnaFlite MZ-6222 starter From: "jayb" #2 wire it is... Response received from Kelly Aerospace: The only information we have is for testing the starters in a "no load" condition on our test bench which does not correlate to the current draw under load with the starter turning the engine. I recall from past experiences that the current draw during cranking would be 250 - 350 amps under normal conditions, obviously higher at the initial onset of the start, then tapering off as the engine rotates. I think the best idea would be to review a service manual for a production aircraft and use its electrical system schematic as a guide. Any Piper PA-235 Commanche or PA-23-250 Aztec series might be good examples to consider. Each of them run a Lycoming 540 engine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160204#160204 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting From: Eric, Interesting website. A venerable oasis for flashlight builders. For anyone thinking about building LED flashlights I saw you can now buy a nice 4" job at Harbor Freight for < $5 now. Don't waste your time building them unless you are simply interested a project. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting --> I have written about this extensively on this list and IMHO-- 1) Aeroleds is to be saluted for making their led landing and taxi light. There will be many good led products. I have said to interested parties that any led product you can now buy becomes obsolete in the time it takes to develop a product. The design engineer's current nightmare! The best LED product efficiency is nearly 100 lumens/watt and soon will be 150 lumens/watt (7X better than halogens). For experimenters, I recommend you check-- http://www.dealextreme.com/products.dx/category.917 Dig around the site until your head spins. Also Kaidoman.com . Cheap prices, fast shipping. Amazing stuff. As for LED landing lights, you could just tape together a few of their big flashlights and do the job cheaply. Check their 20W and 50W leds!!!! Awesome. I still have a couple LED technical notes on my website: www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/aircraft_beacons_using_leds.pdf (out of date now but still interesting). www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/redandgreenledpositionlights.pdf and I still sell the LED tail light, which I have upgraded to a 2X brighter led. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160190#160190 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:10 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: TurboCAD software at a discount Jay I think V14 is the latest release, and availability will vary from time to time on Ebay. I just checked my buying history, I paid 99cents plus $5.75 shipping for a total of $6.74 for brand new TurboCad Designer 14. Previous to that I won a version 11 for $13 plus shipping but was refunded because they didn't actually have it in stock. I just looked now and you're right there's none in this price range now, but keep looking, it can happen. I'm not sure the versions change much from year to year and Bob had mentioned that anything above a version 7-8-9 (I don't remember which) will work fine for our purposes. Keep looking. Bevan RV7A wiring now DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jayb Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 4:58 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: TurboCAD software at a discount --> You can't find v14 on eBay for anywhere near $20. The lowest I found was $80 + shipping (or up for bids). Good comment about the extra symbols needed though. Sort of like buying a car and then finding out it needs tires to be able to drive. Jay do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160176#160176 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:56 PM PST US From: John Tvedte Subject: AeroElectric-List: Low Volt Warning breaker Just curious why there is a breaker for the Low Volt OV sense - on the LR3C regulator - Z13 - and not just combined with the ALT field breaker? Tks. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:34 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop under load I noticed today that my voltage would drop from about 14.5 volts down to 13.3 volts when I turned all my lights on. That is two 100W landing, two 100W taxi, position, and strobe lights. I made sure that I had plenty of rpm to be certain that the alternator was putting out its max. The alternator is rated at 55A. Is it possible that I am pulling more amps than the alternator can handle? Is the drop of voltage an indicator of this? What should be the size of the B lead wire for a 55A alternator? Thanks, Bill B ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:01 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting From: "mikef" I purchased the AeroSun 800 for my weight shift trike nose landing light. Flying sport pilot I don't fly at night, but do land in civil twilight. The product is well made, very sturdy, bright as hell, easy to wire up. My single light is controlled with one switch, as either light or wig-wag/flasher. I talked to the folks at Aerosun before purchase. They even sent me to Aircraft Spruce for a lesser price than direct from them. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/1105710.php Yes, I could build my own LED light but for the $$ their unit is very nice, works well. Whatever floats your boat. Fly safe, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160321#160321 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:30 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage drop under load Yes voltage starts to sag as the alternator output starts to lag demand. Quick math suggests that your alternator is working properly. (100 watts divided by 13.3 volts is about 7.5 amps per 100 watt load) My alternator can handle all loads but the voltage will drop a bit if I pull the throttle to idle on approach. No big deal if the battery helps out for a few dozen seconds on final approach. In cruise my taxi lights wig wag which halves the current draw. Ken Bill Bradburry wrote: > > I noticed today that my voltage would drop from about 14.5 volts down to > 13.3 volts when I turned all my lights on. That is two 100W landing, two > 100W taxi, position, and strobe lights. > I made sure that I had plenty of rpm to be certain that the alternator was > putting out its max. The alternator is rated at 55A. > > Is it possible that I am pulling more amps than the alternator can handle? > Is the drop of voltage an indicator of this? > > What should be the size of the B lead wire for a 55A alternator? > > Thanks, > Bill B > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:30 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Volt Warning breaker If the ALT breaker pops (and it will in milliseconds in an OV situation) wouldn't that also kill the low voltage warning and defeat the purpose of it? Ken John Tvedte wrote: > > Just curious why there is a breaker for the Low Volt OV sense - on the LR3C regulator - Z13 - and not just combined with the ALT field breaker? > > Tks. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:47 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS From: "Rv7flyer" I too am a BMA customer with a G4 lite plus. I have gone through the same problems that others have mentioned. looking back I can remember several occasions that I wanted to rip out the unit and drive over it with my truck. Nothing worked as advertised, Software was incomplete, Features were missing etc... It has been over a year now and with the updates that have been released it has become quite useful. Right now as it stands I have a very stable and informative EFIS. The autopilot is now functional and has good integration with external device as the Sl30 and GNS430. I now trust it for my primary IFR but i also have backup gauges. I can not find a single EFIS system out there that I would trust solely for IFR without some backup anyway. Trust me.. I looked at every EFIS company out there. I looked at the features and performance and still I stayed with the Blue Mountain. It has been a love hate relationship with them. Greg is not the best business manager I have ever dealt with. He really screwed the pooch with the roll out of the G4 line. Releasing it before it was fully tested or the software was fully implemented would not have been my first choice. But I do not know the full story or what his game plan was. I know he was forced to put out the G4 line as the design for the G3 had too many limitations. In the last six months I have seen a huge change in the product and his efforts to release quality updates. Every update is carefully tested and refined and shows major improvements. The first six months the releases were just to add the functionality he promised it was to have and the last six months the updates have refined small issues. Over all I now have a unit that is 95.5% of what was first promised. I have not found any EFIS that has everything that I would like to have. Dynon has a good unit but the decision not to support 3rd party autopilots is a Big turn off for me. BMA has their own autopilot that now works very very good but they still chose to allow integration with other autopilots. Bravo!! Advance's EFIS has a really complicated GUI. BMA is a small company. Releasing the G4 line before it was fully ready might have been a financial one but I am happy that they stuck with it and now they can focus on marketing a product that can hold it's own against any other. I find it really ironic that I am defending them after all this time. But I really like the design and simplicity of the design now. I would defiantly put another one in my next plane. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160329#160329 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:29 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dimmer hookup to Avionics From: "ronaldcox" I know some (ALL?) of you folks know a lot more about this than I do, and rather than take a chance of frying something, I'm going to ask here. I am hooking up several of the AeroElectric dimmer boards units Bob used to sell on the AEC site to my panel, (Now B&C sells them as DIM15-14's) and one of them is to be used for dimming the internal lighting on my MAC 1700 (Really a KX-170A) radio, and a King KT-76 transponder. I want to make sure I get the hookups right. I hate letting the smoke out of expensive "stuff". On the pre-wired harness I bought (years ago) with the NavCom, it had one wire labeled "Lighting" and another yellow wire labeled "Dimmer". I don't want to just start trying things, so can any of you tell me which of those wires I need to hook to the output of the dimmer unit? Does one of these wires from the radio go to +14VDC, and the other to the dimmer board output? I have tested the dimmers and they work fine with light bulbs, etc., but I don't want to fry anything internally in the radio(s). Thanks in advance. -------- Ron Cox Glasair Super II F/T Under Construction at C77 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160331#160331 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:27 PM PST US From: "FLAGSTONE" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C Hi: For those of you with non-certified EFIS systems that you also use to encode your transponder, what do you have to do to comply with FAR 91.217(c) in meeting the requirements of TSO-88C. Thanks Mark ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:22 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED Lighting In a message dated 1/24/2008 3:00:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes: Stan, thanks for the reply. How are you coming on the lights? I have just started messing around with them and was wondering if anyone else had come up with anything. I agree about the charge for restocking for something you don't know will be as advertised. Dan, I did some experiments about a year ago and then again recently. I'm using Luxeon K2s which are one watt and produce about 80 lumen. Later model LEDs produce more lumen per watt. I have some optics for them that focus the light nicely but it would require 6 or 8 to adequately illuminate in front of the plane. Also, mounting them and heat sinking are problems to be solved. The number of LEDs in series on a single power supply has to be carefully studied to make sure you don't over or under voltage them too much. With the Luxeon K2s, I can have only 4 on a single 12v power supply. It appears the aeroleds.com guys have solved the problems and the best solution may be to wait for them (or someone else) to work out the bugs. ACS sells the AeroSun 800 for $155 each. My estimate is that you will have to invest about $100-120 to develop a similar light yourself, so their price is not too bad. If the AeroSun 800 produces sufficient light, then I believe that is the best current option for LED-based landing/taxi lighting. Stan **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:23 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C In essence, passing the bi-annual check, satisfies the regulation. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLAGSTONE Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:31 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C Hi: For those of you with non-certified EFIS systems that you also use to encode your transponder, what do you have to do to comply with FAR 91.217(c) in meeting the requirements of TSO-88C. 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