Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
2. 06:10 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (BobsV35B@aol.com)
3. 08:36 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
4. 08:54 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Dj Merrill)
5. 09:35 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (rampil)
6. 10:36 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
7. 11:07 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Ernest Christley)
8. 11:13 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Dj Merrill)
9. 11:15 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 11:27 AM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Chuck Jensen)
11. 12:26 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
12. 12:42 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
13. 12:48 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (BobsV35B@aol.com)
14. 12:52 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Dj Merrill)
15. 01:05 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
16. 01:15 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
17. 01:34 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Dj Merrill)
18. 01:49 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (rampil)
19. 02:18 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Kelly McMullen)
20. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
21. 02:40 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
22. 02:42 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Sam Marlow)
23. 05:44 PM - Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C (Bret Smith)
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
My FAA office required a certified encoder, I think it was about a
$200.00 box. Yours may not be so stupid, because the EFIS encoder is a
superior unit.
Sam
FLAGSTONE wrote:
>
> Hi:
>
> For those of you with non-certified EFIS systems that you also use to encode
> your transponder, what do you have to do to comply with FAR 91.217(c) in
> meeting the requirements of TSO-88C.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Good Morning Sam,
Maybe I have missed something, but how did the FSDO get involved?
As near as I can tell, there is no need to ask them anything.
If you elect to fly your experimental airplane IFR, all that is required is
that it meet the specified functional requirements. There is no requirement
that any piece of equipment be TSO'd. The only requirement is that it perform
properly.
What am I missing here?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/25/2008 7:58:18 A.M. Central Standard Time,
sam@fr8dog.net writes:
My FAA office required a certified encoder, I think it was about a $200.00
box. Yours may not be so stupid, because the EFIS encoder is a superior unit.
Sam
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
The avionics shop that does the static check, wouldn't certify the test
without an approved encoder. The avionics inspector from the FSDO was
there when I made my inquiry as to what is required. He said I had to
have a three things before a shop in his district would approve an
installation. TSO altimeter, TSO encoder, and a TSO transponder.
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Sam,
>
> Maybe I have missed something, but how did the FSDO get involved?
>
> As near as I can tell, there is no need to ask them anything.
>
> If you elect to fly your experimental airplane IFR, all that is
> required is that it meet the specified functional requirements. There
> is no requirement that any piece of equipment be TSO'd. The only
> requirement is that it perform properly.
>
> What am I missing here?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> 628 West 86th Street
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>
> In a message dated 1/25/2008 7:58:18 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> sam@fr8dog.net writes:
>
> My FAA office required a certified encoder, I think it was about a
> $200.00 box. Yours may not be so stupid, because the EFIS encoder
> is a superior unit.
> Sam
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
> Music.
> <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548>
> *
>
>
> *
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Sam Marlow wrote:
> The avionics shop that does the static check, wouldn't certify the
> test without an approved encoder. The avionics inspector from the FSDO
> was there when I made my inquiry as to what is required. He said I had
> to have a three things before a shop in his district would approve an
> installation. TSO altimeter, TSO encoder, and a TSO transponder.
>
You should chat with the EAA and ask if they would be willing to
talk to this person. In an experimental aircraft, the avionics shops
are not required to approve any installation - you do this as the
builder of the aircraft. All they have to do is run the tests to see if
the equipment passes or not.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
While I don't think redundancy is necessarily a bad thing, a TSO
blind encoder is not strictly necessary. Maybe the presence of the
FSDO guy in the shop spooked the boys. When I had my gold box
BMA EFIS/1 it was approved for its biennial without a peep as the
encoder for my SL-70 transponder. Well, not quite. The shop guys
had never before seen a transponder squawk within 1 foot of all 10
target altitudes from zero to 16000! This was after it had warmed up
for an hour or so.
Having said that, when I upgraded to the BMA Gen4, the panel lost
so much weight, that when I saw a good price on a TransCal encoder,
I bought it.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160441#160441
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the TSO,
but the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local Feds.
Which means if they did certify the static and transponder, and I wasn't
TSO equipment, then they could lose there certificate.
I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound by
my local FSDO bureaucracy!
Sam
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Sam Marlow wrote:
>> The avionics shop that does the static check, wouldn't certify the
>> test without an approved encoder. The avionics inspector from the
>> FSDO was there when I made my inquiry as to what is required. He said
>> I had to have a three things before a shop in his district would
>> approve an installation. TSO altimeter, TSO encoder, and a TSO
>> transponder.
>>
>
> You should chat with the EAA and ask if they would be willing to
> talk to this person. In an experimental aircraft, the avionics shops
> are not required to approve any installation - you do this as the
> builder of the aircraft. All they have to do is run the tests to see
> if the equipment passes or not.
>
> -Dj
>
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Sam Marlow wrote:
> I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the TSO,
> but the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local Feds.
> Which means if they did certify the static and transponder, and I
> wasn't TSO equipment, then they could lose there certificate.
> I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound
> by my local FSDO bureaucracy!
> Sam
As the builder, it is my understanding that you 'certify' EVERYTHING on
the project. You're not asking that the avionics shop certify the
setup. You're just asking them to test it and provide you with the raw
data. It is *YOU* that gets to decide if it meets the requirements.
Or have I completely misunderstood it all?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Sam Marlow wrote:
> I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the TSO,
> but the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local Feds.
> Which means if they did certify the static and transponder, and I
> wasn't TSO equipment, then they could lose there certificate.
> I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound
> by my local FSDO bureaucracy!
> Sam
>
Hi Sam,
All they can do is run the tests and tell you if the equipment
passes the test, or not. As I understand it, their responsibility ends
there.
There have been many discussions about this that can be found in
this list's archives if you want to read more about it. Bottom line is
that your avionics shop and your local FSDO are not properly following
the guidelines set forth and documented by the FAA.
Within the last few months a similar situation was discussed on this
list that was happening (in Florida I think), and the builder contacted
the EAA, who in turn contacted the FAA, who in turn contacted the FSDO
and set them straight. In the end the builder used his EFIS encoder to
drive the transponder and it passed the tests, so he was all set to go.
In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, you would be doing builders
in your area a great service if you were to place a phone call to the
EAA to report this, and hopefully they will also be able to correct your
local FSDO's incorrect interpretation of the FAA rules.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 9
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| Subject: | IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
I would call up your local inspector at FSDO...Explain to him what the requ
irements are and ask him to send an email to the local shop.
FSDO is bound by federal aviation law, they can't go round making up their
own rules...My guess is they are not clear on what the rules are so I would
get on the EAA website and download the document about experimenatls and f
lying IFR...The EAA did an exposee on this very subject and got an "interpr
etation" of the law from the FAA itself.
So you need to get this document into the hands of the local FSDO inspector
.
I have found they are usually pretty normal people with a genuine interest
in aviation....I'm sure its just a misunderstanding somewhere.
Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C
I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the TSO, but
the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local Feds. Which mea
ns if they did certify the static and transponder, and I wasn't TSO equipme
nt, then they could lose there certificate.
I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound by my
local FSDO bureaucracy!
Sam
Message 10
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| Subject: | IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
You can have Radio Shack and WallyWorld stuff behind the panel. For IFR certification,
the Avionics shop doesn't pass judgment on what they think of the equipment,
but simply if it meets the accuracy requirements. If it meets the accuracy
requirements at all the appropriate altitudes, then they give you approval
and they can keep their opinions of what they think of the setup to themselves.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dj
Merrill
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C
Sam Marlow wrote:
> I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the TSO,
> but the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local Feds.
> Which means if they did certify the static and transponder, and I
> wasn't TSO equipment, then they could lose there certificate.
> I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound
> by my local FSDO bureaucracy!
> Sam
>
Hi Sam,
All they can do is run the tests and tell you if the equipment
passes the test, or not. As I understand it, their responsibility ends
there.
There have been many discussions about this that can be found in
this list's archives if you want to read more about it. Bottom line is
that your avionics shop and your local FSDO are not properly following
the guidelines set forth and documented by the FAA.
Within the last few months a similar situation was discussed on this
list that was happening (in Florida I think), and the builder contacted
the EAA, who in turn contacted the FAA, who in turn contacted the FSDO
and set them straight. In the end the builder used his EFIS encoder to
drive the transponder and it passed the tests, so he was all set to go.
In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, you would be doing builders
in your area a great service if you were to place a phone call to the
EAA to report this, and hopefully they will also be able to correct your
local FSDO's incorrect interpretation of the FAA rules.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
I can't do a static check or transponder ck, without thousands of
dollars worth of equipment. So I have to depend on an avionics shop for
this. It doesn't matter if I built it or Beech built it, it still has to
be checked by an approved shop with approved equipment, every 24 months.
Ernest Christley wrote:
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Sam Marlow wrote:
>> I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the
>> TSO, but the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local
>> Feds. Which means if they did certify the static and transponder, and
>> I wasn't TSO equipment, then they could lose there certificate.
>> I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound
>> by my local FSDO bureaucracy!
>> Sam
> As the builder, it is my understanding that you 'certify' EVERYTHING
> on the project. You're not asking that the avionics shop certify the
> setup. You're just asking them to test it and provide you with the
> raw data. It is *YOU* that gets to decide if it meets the requirements.
>
> Or have I completely misunderstood it all?
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Yes, but they won't do it period. I've tried to deal with the FAA on
several similar matters, I'm an IA, but it's just a loosing battle. They
have their little kingdom, cushy chairs, and GS pay schedules, and they
do make up their own rules, as they go.
I've given up............let someone else fight that battle, that's what
we pay dues to EAA for, right.
Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
> You can have Radio Shack and WallyWorld stuff behind the panel. For IFR certification,
the Avionics shop doesn't pass judgment on what they think of the equipment,
but simply if it meets the accuracy requirements. If it meets the accuracy
requirements at all the appropriate altitudes, then they give you approval
and they can keep their opinions of what they think of the setup to themselves.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dj
> Merrill
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:02 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C
>
>
>
> Sam Marlow wrote:
>
>> I understand I really only have to meet the specifications of the TSO,
>> but the avionics shop won't do it unless it satisfies the local Feds.
>> Which means if they did certify the static and transponder, and I
>> wasn't TSO equipment, then they could lose there certificate.
>> I can't certify the static and txp checks as a builder, so I'm bound
>> by my local FSDO bureaucracy!
>> Sam
>>
>>
>
> Hi Sam,
> All they can do is run the tests and tell you if the equipment
> passes the test, or not. As I understand it, their responsibility ends
> there.
>
> There have been many discussions about this that can be found in
> this list's archives if you want to read more about it. Bottom line is
> that your avionics shop and your local FSDO are not properly following
> the guidelines set forth and documented by the FAA.
>
> Within the last few months a similar situation was discussed on this
> list that was happening (in Florida I think), and the builder contacted
> the EAA, who in turn contacted the FAA, who in turn contacted the FSDO
> and set them straight. In the end the builder used his EFIS encoder to
> drive the transponder and it passed the tests, so he was all set to go.
>
> In my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion, you would be doing builders
> in your area a great service if you were to place a phone call to the
> EAA to report this, and hopefully they will also be able to correct your
> local FSDO's incorrect interpretation of the FAA rules.
>
> -Dj
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Good Afternoon Sam,
You are absolutely correct that it needs to be checked in accordance with
the regulatory requirements and that you are unlikely to have the equipment and
expertise to do the checks required. The local avionics shop is probably
the best place to get the checks performed.
However, they don't have to approve it.
All they need to do is provide you with the data they found. You are the
certifying entity and it is up to you to decide if it meets the regulatory
requirements or not.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 1/25/2008 2:29:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
sam@fr8dog.net writes:
I can't do a static check or transponder ck, without thousands of dollars
worth of equipment. So I have to depend on an avionics shop for this. It
doesn't matter if I built it or Beech built it, it still has to be checked by
an
approved shop with approved equipment, every 24 months.
Ernest Christley wrote:
**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Sam Marlow wrote:
>
> Yes, but they won't do it period. I've tried to deal with the FAA on
> several similar matters, I'm an IA, but it's just a loosing battle.
> They have their little kingdom, cushy chairs, and GS pay schedules,
> and they do make up their own rules, as they go.
> I've given up............let someone else fight that battle, that's
> what we pay dues to EAA for, right.
Unless the EAA knows there is a problem, they can't do much about
it. Any chance you'd be willing to give them a call to let them know
there is an issue with your local FSDO? Hopefully they can then take it
from there.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Your correct Bob, but the shop is afraid of loosing it's certificate if
they certify it meets requirement on non TSD'd equipment. They do, have
to certify it meets min requirements, just look at the log book entry.
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> Good Afternoon Sam,
>
> You are absolutely correct that it needs to be checked in accordance
> with the regulatory requirements and that you are unlikely to have the
> equipment and expertise to do the checks required. The local avionics
> shop is probably the best place to get the checks performed.
>
> However, they don't have to approve it.
>
> All they need to do is provide you with the data they found. You are
> the certifying entity and it is up to you to decide if it meets the
> regulatory requirements or not.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> 628 West 86th Street
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
>
> In a message dated 1/25/2008 2:29:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sam@fr8dog.net writes:
>
> I can't do a static check or transponder ck, without thousands of
> dollars worth of equipment. So I have to depend on an avionics
> shop for this. It doesn't matter if I built it or Beech built it,
> it still has to be checked by an approved shop with approved
> equipment, every 24 months.
>
> Ernest Christley wrote:
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
> Music.
> <http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Are you kidding, walk into a FSDO and challenge them. I'd never get
another 337 approved. Not me, I'm done dealing on that level. If one of
you guy's want to, that's well and good, I'll even drive you.
I just want to enjoy flying, and not argue and bicker with every new FAA
guy that thinks he's God's gift to aviation.
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Sam Marlow wrote:
>>
>> Yes, but they won't do it period. I've tried to deal with the FAA on
>> several similar matters, I'm an IA, but it's just a loosing battle.
>> They have their little kingdom, cushy chairs, and GS pay schedules,
>> and they do make up their own rules, as they go.
>> I've given up............let someone else fight that battle, that's
>> what we pay dues to EAA for, right.
>
> Unless the EAA knows there is a problem, they can't do much about
> it. Any chance you'd be willing to give them a call to let them know
> there is an issue with your local FSDO? Hopefully they can then take
> it from there.
>
> -Dj
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Sam Marlow wrote:
> Are you kidding, walk into a FSDO and challenge them.
That is not at all what I said... :-) I simply suggested making a
phone call to the EAA and let them handle it, which leaves you out of
the direct confrontation.
If we as individuals do not stand up for ourselves, or at the very
least notify the organizations that represent us, then we give the power
to "every new FAA guy that thinks he's God's gift to aviation" to act in
whatever way they wish.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Sam,
The simple problem is that you picked the wrong avionics shop.
Thats all. Or, as I said before, the guys were spooked by Mr FSDO
standing there as you said.
My airframe log note from my local shop simply says, that as per the
relevant regs, my system meets the accuracy required for flight in
the NAS.
The point of calling the EAA is simply so they can cite for you all the
needed CFRs and other publications to make it clear to the shop that
homebuilts follow a different protocol. I assure you that my local
shop is a major national shop which does 135 and warbird work as well
as part 91 and homebuilts. They know the score and what they are doing
is fully complying with all the regs.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160490#160490
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
This wouldn't be the Richmond FSDO, of dual brakes fiasco fame? Most
feds will not get too huffy if you ask them to politely educate you as
to which FAR or other publication states whatever their position is.
Something along the lines of "I'm from Missouri, I'd sleep better if you
could please show me where that requirement is for experimental aircraft".
KM
also an IA
Sam Marlow wrote:
>
> Yes, but they won't do it period. I've tried to deal with the FAA on
> several similar matters, I'm an IA, but it's just a loosing battle.
> They have their little kingdom, cushy chairs, and GS pay schedules,
> and they do make up their own rules, as they go.
> I've given up............let someone else fight that battle, that's
> what we pay dues to EAA for, right.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
I suppose so, but I didn't have much choice, considering my location.
rampil wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> The simple problem is that you picked the wrong avionics shop.
> Thats all. Or, as I said before, the guys were spooked by Mr FSDO
> standing there as you said.
>
> My airframe log note from my local shop simply says, that as per the
> relevant regs, my system meets the accuracy required for flight in
> the NAS.
>
> The point of calling the EAA is simply so they can cite for you all the
> needed CFRs and other publications to make it clear to the shop that
> homebuilts follow a different protocol. I assure you that my local
> shop is a major national shop which does 135 and warbird work as well
> as part 91 and homebuilts. They know the score and what they are doing
> is fully complying with all the regs.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160490#160490
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
Yea, well you know the battle I've been fighting for years, it just
takes to much out of me to fight all the time. I just want enjoy
aviation, and have fun.
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> This wouldn't be the Richmond FSDO, of dual brakes fiasco fame? Most
> feds will not get too huffy if you ask them to politely educate you as
> to which FAR or other publication states whatever their position is.
> Something along the lines of "I'm from Missouri, I'd sleep better if
> you could please show me where that requirement is for experimental
> aircraft".
> KM
> also an IA
> Sam Marlow wrote:
>>
>> Yes, but they won't do it period. I've tried to deal with the FAA on
>> several similar matters, I'm an IA, but it's just a loosing battle.
>> They have their little kingdom, cushy chairs, and GS pay schedules,
>> and they do make up their own rules, as they go.
>> I've given up............let someone else fight that battle, that's
>> what we pay dues to EAA for, right.
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
And that's exactly whats happened. Sadly enough.
Dj Merrill wrote:
>
> Sam Marlow wrote:
>> Are you kidding, walk into a FSDO and challenge them.
>
>
> That is not at all what I said... :-) I simply suggested making a
> phone call to the EAA and let them handle it, which leaves you out of
> the direct confrontation.
>
> If we as individuals do not stand up for ourselves, or at the very
> least notify the organizations that represent us, then we give the
> power to "every new FAA guy that thinks he's God's gift to aviation"
> to act in whatever way they wish.
> -Dj
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C |
This may sound like a dumb thought...but why don't you just take it to
another shop?
Bret Smith
RV-9A N16BL
Blue Ridge, Ga
www.FlightInnovations.com <http://www.flightinnovations.com/>
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam
Marlow
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IFR GPS requirements/TSO-88C
Are you kidding, walk into a FSDO and challenge them. I'd never get another
337 approved. Not me, I'm done dealing on that level. If one of you guy's
want to, that's well and good, I'll even drive you.
I just want to enjoy flying, and not argue and bicker with every new FAA guy
that thinks he's God's gift to aviation.
Dj Merrill wrote:
<deej@deej.net>
Sam Marlow wrote:
<sam@fr8dog.net>
Yes, but they won't do it period. I've tried to deal with the FAA on several
similar matters, I'm an IA, but it's just a loosing battle. They have their
little kingdom, cushy chairs, and GS pay schedules, and they do make up
their own rules, as they go.
I've given up............let someone else fight that battle, that's what we
pay dues to EAA for, right.
Unless the EAA knows there is a problem, they can't do much about it.
Any chance you'd be willing to give them a call to let them know there is an
issue with your local FSDO? Hopefully they can then take it from there.
-Dj
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