Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Re: Dumb questions (AM radio) ()
2. 05:25 AM - Re: Dumb questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Z13-8 N P-Mags (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 05:58 AM - Re: TNC connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:22 AM - Alternator Problems (algrajek)
6. 11:46 AM - Soliciting knowledgable comments about Eagle EMS (Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.)
7. 03:46 PM - Firewall penetration (rvtach)
8. 04:58 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (RV10 4JF)
9. 05:34 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (Dale Ensing)
10. 05:41 PM - Thumb screws for plastic hoods (Allen Fulmer)
11. 06:37 PM - Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M (Emrath)
12. 07:21 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (Charlie England)
13. 07:53 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (Ernest Christley)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Dumb questions (AM radio) |
>From: "Richard Girard" <jindoguy@gmail.com>
>Re: AeroElectric-List: Dumb questions
>personal (habit) of listening to broadcast
> radio on the ADF.
>Bob Dingley
Bob, I assume you are an AM radio junkie?
My suggestion/opinion DO NOT buy a big heavy car
radio/CD player and mount it in the panel. Why? Its
heavy and not needed to listen to radio.
My suggestion is MOST all intercoms have an audio
input with a little phone jack. You can connect a little
portable AM/FM battery powered radio or iPod / MP3
player or any audio source you desire to it. The antenna
can just be the internal antenna or small whip, no need to
install antennas and run coax and add drag/weight. The
antenna in cockpit can pick up plenty of signal through plexi.
I use a little high quality portable AM/FM radio. It has
digital tuning and scanning. The wire from the radio to
the head phone acts as the antenna. I just used a little
phone to phone jumper cable, plugging it into the intercom,
and had radio. It worked very well. I like listening to some
radio shows or sports on a cross country. No need to
take up the panel with a big automotive unit. Keep it
light and keep it simple. Plan on a good intercom and
good head sets. The nice thing is when the COM radio
kicks in the intercom cuts the entertainment audio out.
When the COM is quite, the entertainment fades back in.
Go to Radio Shack and search "AM/FM Pocket Radio".
There are 23 models to pick from $10-$30. Check out
the Grundig Mini 300 AM/FM/SW Pocket Radio, its
pretty cool and has a rubber duckie antenna and SW
radio, for $30.
The DOWN side with radio, as you know, you out fly
the station. Of course super powerful AM radio stations
at night, with "skip" can be listened to for a long time
time, if you are flying towards them. "The Captains
Guide", has list of high powered AM radio stations around
the county. I can't stand AM radio for the most part. Now
I only use my iPod with +2000 songs and 'pod casts'.
[Pod cast are almost anything and often entertainment
programs, like radio shows. You download them from the
web, often for free. For example I download a NPR program
or two on my iPod.]
ADF is dead, heavy, bulky and on deaths door with
GPS.
George ATP/CFI (RV7 still pounding)
PS: per other suggestions XM radio is the bomb but
cost monthly subscription. However if you have a
protable XM radio unit, it can plug into the same
intercom audio/aux input the protable AM/FM
radio does.
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Dumb questions |
At 04:21 PM 1/27/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob, I'm no expert, but I did learn this from one. Some automotive audio
>systems use completely separate grounds for each channel. For that you'd
>have to rewire your headphones and run three jacks instead of two. This
>info may be old, it was a few years ago and things move on, but it never
>hurts to ask the sales guy or look at the wiring layout of any system
>you're thinking of buying.
>
>Rick
>
>On Jan 27, 2008 2:49 PM, <<mailto:MaxNr@aol.com>MaxNr@aol.com> wrote:
>>I have been sitting in the back row on this list, hoping to learn
>>something. I was born without any electronic genes. I am building an all
>>metal light sport plane.(Zenith) Right or wrong, I developed the habit
>>(over five decades of personal, military and commercial flying) of
>>listening to broadcast radio on the ADF. I'm thinking that I need to
>>install an of the shelf automobile radio in my project. No second hand
>>Ebay ADF's. My two questions are: Will I fry the radio if I use only a
>>headset and no speakers? About the antenna. I know that I should mount it
>>vertically, but it must withstand airspeed excursions to Vne
>>(156kts/180mph) without going L shaped. I've come up with somehow jamming
>>it inside the canopy, or insulating it and mounting against the landing
>>gear, or inside some kind of tubular mast on the belly. I did come across
>>a NOS Volkswagen telescoping antenna in my shop. It would be great if
>>that Lyc carburetor turns up again the same way. Somebody stop me if I'm
>>on the wrong track. This isn't the most pressing problem out there, but
>>all suggestions are appreciated.
What Rick is referring to is the differential balanced PAIR
of wires that goes to each speaker. This is a technique that
allows TWO amplifiers to drive both wires of a speaker out
of phase with each other. This effectively doubles the potential
peak-to-peak voltage to drive each speaker . . . 4x the watts
without having to resort to power supply boosters or very low
impedance speakers. It also eliminated the need for an output
coupling capacitor . . . a fat passive rascal that was a
necessary inconvenience. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LM4752.pdf
Here's a "single ended" stereo amplifier. Note the
1000 uF capacitors in series with the speakers. Note
also that the speakers are grounded on one side. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/LM4950.pdf
Here we see two amplifiers wired to each side of the
speaker. No 1000 uF capacitor needed.
Most car radios use a similar scheme with one pair
of dif-amps for the front speakers and another pair
for the rear speakers, a total of eight, ungrounded
wires.
There are perhaps a half-dozen ways to adapt the
speaker outputs of a radio to the headphone inputs
of the intercom. However, many automotive radios have
line output features for taking stereo audio to external
amplifiers. These are already in the ballpark for
connection directly to the stereo inputs of an intercom
system. They're already single-ended and shielded against
case ground for the radio. I'll suggest you seek a radio
with the AUX OUTPUT feature and start from there. If this
proves unsatisfactory, I can show you how to craft an
interface network to go between your radio's speaker
outputs and the stereo inputs of your intercom.
The antenna is another deal entirely. Vertically
polarized, medium wave signals run along the
ground and work really fine with short antennas on
ground based vehicles. Once you leave the ground,
performance for a short whip antenna degrades.
The antenna input to an automotive AM receiver is
a unique beast. It's a very high impedance port
that is performance degraded by CAPACITY. If you
cut the feedline open on a car radio antenna, you
may find that the center conductor is a very small
single strand of wire supported down the center of
the coaxial cable by a hollow plastic tube. This
high-impedance coax was supplied to us in large spools
at Cessna way back when . . . it was necessary for
the purpose of extending the sense antenna feeder from
radio on the panel to a feed-through insulator on
the cabin roof.
I suspect that this input philosophy is still used.
Off-the-shelf car antennas come with a run of this
specialized "coax" that is already terminated to mate
with jacks on radio and base of antenna.
The 'ideal' AM receiver antenna for airborne applications
would be the "ferrite loopstick" described in the
'Connection's section on antennas. This is an H-field
antenna that is not unlike that which your ADF uses
to find bearing of an incoming signal. Unfortunately,
the loopstick IS directional. Unless you can rotate the
antenna, you would need 2 or three of the things along
with an ability to switch between them as well as tune
them to the station's frequency for best reception.
This calls for some experimentation. Ideally, your
radio's antenna input would be characterized for
performance with a longer piece of coax (higher
capacity) and a relatively long wire antenna not
unlike that used for sense antennas of the earliest
ADFs. In this respect, the ADF receivers and AM radio
receivers have a great deal in common with respect
to crafting a high performance antenna with an
exceedingly small size compared to the wavelength
of energy being tapped.
Crafting a "high speed" whip antenna has it's
challenges. My first thought is that actual orientation
of the antenna would have little effect on performance.
I think I'd experiment with a "trailing wire" . . .
a 5' of wire that attaches to a suitable fitting
just before you taxi out. Or, consider crafting a
j-bend antenna, not unlike that used for marker
beacons. Use the standard AM radio antenna that's
a solid rod. Heat it with a torch so that you can
put a 90-degree bend in it about 6" from the base.
Then allow it to fair rearward and support the tip
on an insulated mast of some variety.
Check with the automotive radio/audio shops for
an antenna with longer than usual coax cable.
This might be for a truck, van or RV. The antenna
can't be a telescoping variety . . . solid stainless
rod is called for. But then, depending on your
particular installation, perhaps a standard automotive
antenna for a sedan will have enough coax. See what
it takes to install it on the belly modified and
supported as described above.
Let us know how it works out!
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Z13-8 N P-Mags |
At 01:06 AM 1/28/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>You might think wiring up an electronic mag might be simple :-(
>
>Replacing the S700-2-10 with a S700-2-1 as I indicated in my previous
>post isn't the correct solution. . . .
<snip>
>My current plan is to use four of the simplest single-pole on-off
>switches, two for power and two for p-lead grounding, plus a push
>button for start. So that is a total of five switches, but much
>simpler and cheaper components and the plane will still fly if any one
>of them fails.
Hmmmm . . . I take it that you have not read my response
to your original posting on this topic. Stand the circuit
as-published against the design goals stated and see if your
concerns are not already addressed by the proposed two-switch
configuration.
>I like the simple flow of operating the switches. However, I am not
>completely comfortable without a keyswitch, which would be difficult
>to include in this design. I do not like keyswitches, but there is a
>clear delineation between someone being (or not) permitted to start
>the aircraft if they are in possession of the key. To prevent
>starting, the key would need to disconnect mag power to avoid hand
>propping. The secret switch under the dash, used for auto anti-theft
>is a safety of flight issue. Anyone have any good ideas how to handle
>this ?
What are the risks? How many folks of dishonorable behavior
know how to fly YOUR airplane? Hundreds of airplanes are
subjected to evil intent every year. Radios and instruments
are stolen, airframes vandalized but exceedingly few airplanes
are removed from their parking places. The most effective
theft deterrents are the simplest. Folks who want whole airplanes
are generally professional drug runners and the hauling ability
of an SE lightplane is simply not in conformance with their
business model. One of my favorite deterrents is used by several
folks at ICT. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/AC_Theft_Protection.jpg
THIS airplane would haul a LOT of pot . . .
The whole idea of a "secret switch" doesn't consider the
mind-set of folks who prey upon others. If he/she goes
to work on your airplane only to find that the "puzzle"
is beyond their ability solve, they're more likely to
take out their frustration with a hammer to your panel
or a knife to your upholstery or canopy.
Thieves are a lazy lot, else they would make their living
by exploiting their own productiveness as opposed
to exploiting the products of others. Hence a hardened
steel chain and lock is very likely to send your antagonist
off to "greener" pastures. If you make the solution to
the puzzle quite clear from the get-go, they're more likely
to go in search of easier prey.
I had a hangar renter at 1K1 ask me NOT to lock his
airplane. He had to do thousands of dollars of work
to repair damage to doors over the years and thieves
got his radios anyhow. He correctly deduced that it
was a whole lot less expensive to leave the doors
unlocked and just have to replace radios. Interestingly
enough, after his airplane was moved to our Podunk
International Airport (See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/1K1_Spring_1989.jpg
he was not victim of any more attacks against his
airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: TNC connections |
At 10:06 PM 1/27/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Okay,
>
>I am having a hard time finding the comic book or other type simple guide to
>making TNC connections.
>
>Is there such a creature at aeroelectic?
>
>I found the one for bnc
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bnccrimp.pdf
>
>is the tnc similar?
>
>I ask since my Garmin 430 was converted to the new Garmin 430W and that GPS
>antenna has a tnc connector.
The TNC connectors I have are installed EXACTLY
the same way with the same tools.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Subject: | Alternator Problems |
I have a B&C 60 Amp alternator and a B&C Voltage regulator. Lately on 3 occasions,
while out flying, after about 20 minutes, my alternator stops putting out(
Amps go to zero, and volts start dropping). Upon landing and charging battery(to
Make it home). All works well. Also notice that the volts, while cruising,
while the alternator is on line, vary from 13.5to 14.9 . I have checked all the
wiring and it SEEMS fine. Do I have a voltage regulator problem???
Thanks
Al Grajek
RV8
859-361-9460
algrajek@msn.com
--------
just rv8in
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160846#160846
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Subject: | Soliciting knowledgable comments about Eagle EMS |
Have any listers looked at this system? I saw it at EAA NW/Arlington
2007. I bent the ears of both the Precision Airmotive guys and Bart
LaLonde at Aerosport about it. Among its appeals are excellent mixture
distribution, easy starting, no return lines, self-purging for easier
hot starts and seemingly a lot of redundancy designed into the system.
Coming from an automotive engineering background, adjusting my R&D
expectations to the reality of miniscule (by comparison) aviation sales
volume has proven difficult at times for me. There just isn't enough
sales volume to amortize a great deal of testing. Furthermore, I am
probably a little more of a flyer than a builder, but there is nothing
like an RV-7 and modern avionics available unless one builds it oneself.
Although I generally am uncomfortable with the idea of being a Beta
tester, the Eagle EMS has definite appeal. The system appears to be the
first common rail/timed fuel injection developed for aircraft engine
use. Common rail/pulse width fuel injection has been the auto industry
preferred choice for at least 15 years.
Precision Airmotive has had units flying in two different test beds for
about 5 years, supposedly without issues. If one wishes to equip a
Lycoming (clone) engine with an Eagle EMS the engine must be purchased
from one of only three experimental engine suppliers, Aerosport, G&N or
Penn Yann. All of these suppliers have stellar reputations. Their
selection will provide some assurance of "proper installation."
Perhaps this will avoid the "great debate" over whether any problems
exposed are installation related, as we have seen with BMA.
At any rate, if you are familiar with this system and have comments I
would appreciate it if you would share them, especially if they are
"failure mode analysis' type comments.
Thanks,
Larry Tompkins
Message 7
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Subject: | Firewall penetration |
Hi-
Working on making firewall penetrations and making them fireproof. I'm using steel
eyeballs for engine control cables and a stainless heater valve. I'm expecting
to have a single penetration for electrical wiring and for engine sensors
etc near the battery box.
I like Bob's modified grab handle method for a fireproof penetration but it's larger and bulkier than I need. And it's probably not a good use of my $time$ to try to come up with a less expensive alternative to the SafeAir 1 stainless fire wall pass through system; it's only $50. But it's $50! I came across a plumbing fitting in the "swamp cooler" section of my local plumbing supply today and it just might be a $3.50 alternative. I have posted some photos at http://picasaweb.google.com/rvtach/FirewallPassthrough that show the hardware.
It comes threaded internally for 1/2" NPT. I removed the threads by running a 7/8"
drill through it. The whole thing fits snugly through a 1" hole and is secured
by a threaded nut which would need to be secured with some thread locker.
I would use firesleeve and hose clamps like Bob's grab handle or the SafeAir
1 product. There's just over 1/2" to clamp the sleeve to which is a little short
but should be adequate.
So, can any of you guys think of any problems with this method? Maybe I shouldn't
use brass hardware against the s/s firewall? Brass melts to easily? Anything?
Appreciate any help at all here.
--------
Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A Finishing Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160931#160931
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
Hello,
Tony Bingelis wrote an article on making pass-thru fittings. They are similar to
those used on Cessnas except that they are one piece where as the Cessna fittings
are two piece. They are oval in shape, SS with fire retardant material surrounding
your pass-thru item. You make them out of stainless steel using sockets
or pipe as the forming die. They are attached to the firewall with 2 screws.
You drill a hole to fit your pass-thru item. You can make them as large or
small as you like. You just have to find the right die.
I will see if I can find the article and maybe I can post some pictures or a poorly
drawn facsimile.
BTW, in case of an engine fire, you want these fittings to provide some protection
so you really need something good.
JF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160942#160942
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
Be aware of possible impact on engine sensor data if sensor leads are too
close to high current (fat) wires.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "rvtach" <rvtach@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration
>
> Hi-
>
> Working on making firewall penetrations and making them fireproof. I'm
> using steel eyeballs for engine control cables and a stainless heater
> valve. I'm expecting to have a single penetration for electrical wiring
> and for engine sensors etc near the battery box.
>
> I like Bob's modified grab handle method for a fireproof penetration but
> it's larger and bulkier than I need. And it's probably not a good use of
> my $time$ to try to come up with a less expensive alternative to the
> SafeAir 1 stainless fire wall pass through system; it's only $50. But it's
> $50! I came across a plumbing fitting in the "swamp cooler" section of my
> local plumbing supply today and it just might be a $3.50 alternative. I
> have posted some photos at
> http://picasaweb.google.com/rvtach/FirewallPassthrough that show the
> hardware.
>
> It comes threaded internally for 1/2" NPT. I removed the threads by
> running a 7/8" drill through it. The whole thing fits snugly through a 1"
> hole and is secured by a threaded nut which would need to be secured with
> some thread locker. I would use firesleeve and hose clamps like Bob's
> grab handle or the SafeAir 1 product. There's just over 1/2" to clamp the
> sleeve to which is a little short but should be adequate.
>
> So, can any of you guys think of any problems with this method? Maybe I
> shouldn't use brass hardware against the s/s firewall? Brass melts to
> easily? Anything? Appreciate any help at all here.
>
> --------
> Jim McChesney
> Tucson, AZ
> RV-7A Finishing Kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160931#160931
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Thumb screws for plastic hoods |
Having worked on PCs for the last 25 years I have learned to hate the little
screws that are used to fasten db connectors to the back of computers.
Fortunately, most cable manufacturers have gone to using thumb screws so a
screw driver is not required. Until GRT, Trutrak, and others!!
After two false starts I have finally found a supplier and the thumb screw
that will fit most all the plastic db hoods provided by GRT, Trutrak, and
others.
You may not care BUT IF YOU DO here is the link to the part. 50 of them
will cost you 12.50 plus frt. ($6.10) and tax ($1.07).
Allied Electronics, Inc. Stock No. is 810-0009. Link to page follows:
https://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=810-0009&SEARCH=&MPN
=B71E014276&DESC=B71E014276&R=810%2D0009&sid=479D1B001E0BE17F
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Wiring/Plumbing
Eggenfellner Subaru E6T on firewall
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL
256-329-2001
Message 11
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Subject: | Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M |
Bob,
Instead of running the test lead from the alternator, can one run the lead
from terminal #4 of the LR3C-14?
do not archive
Marty in Brentwood TN
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
rvtach wrote:
>
> Hi-
>
> Working on making firewall penetrations and making them fireproof. I'm using
steel eyeballs for engine control cables and a stainless heater valve. I'm expecting
to have a single penetration for electrical wiring and for engine sensors
etc near the battery box.
>
> I like Bob's modified grab handle method for a fireproof penetration but it's larger and bulkier than I need. And it's probably not a good use of my $time$ to try to come up with a less expensive alternative to the SafeAir 1 stainless fire wall pass through system; it's only $50. But it's $50! I came across a plumbing fitting in the "swamp cooler" section of my local plumbing supply today and it just might be a $3.50 alternative. I have posted some photos at http://picasaweb.google.com/rvtach/FirewallPassthrough that show the hardware.
>
> It comes threaded internally for 1/2" NPT. I removed the threads by running a
7/8" drill through it. The whole thing fits snugly through a 1" hole and is secured
by a threaded nut which would need to be secured with some thread locker.
I would use firesleeve and hose clamps like Bob's grab handle or the SafeAir
1 product. There's just over 1/2" to clamp the sleeve to which is a little
short but should be adequate.
>
> So, can any of you guys think of any problems with this method? Maybe I shouldn't
use brass hardware against the s/s firewall? Brass melts to easily? Anything?
Appreciate any help at all here.
>
> --------
> Jim McChesney
> Tucson, AZ
> RV-7A Finishing Kit
Is it a brass fitting? If so, it will melt at a lower temp than
stainless, but so will the aluminum rivets & angles (and the copper wire
going through it will, too). You might be able to find the same fitting
in stainless from a food supply grade plumbing supplier.
You just have to weigh risk/benefit/expense.
My personal opinion is that there's much more risk from the heater
penetration, even with stainless parts, than with any penetration
carrying solid wires or steel cables. If you look at the air gap around
the flapper valve on the heater penetration, the total area of the gap
is effectively a gaping hole, compared to a wire penetration filled with
wire & fire suppressing caulk.
Charlie
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
rvtach wrote:
> So, can any of you guys think of any problems with this method? Maybe I shouldn't
use brass hardware against the s/s firewall? Brass melts to easily? Anything?
Appreciate any help at all here.
>
A big contributor to the elbow fitting's effectiveness is the elbow.
The fire would have to turn a corner. You loose that with a straight
through fitting.
It should be fairly easy to find a stainless elbow that would do the
same thing. You might have to got up to $10 to get one though 8*)
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