Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Re: Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:32 AM - Re: Alternator Problems (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 04:45 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Ken)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (RV10 4JF)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: Podunk Int'l (Speedy11@aol.com)
6. 08:14 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (David E. Nelson)
7. 08:31 AM - Z Diagram Questions (Jay Brinkmeyer)
8. 09:30 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (rvtach)
9. 09:47 AM - B&C alternator 30Amps (kakydanou)
10. 10:53 AM - Re: B&C alternator 30Amps (Greg Scott)
11. 12:28 PM - Re: B&C alternator 30Amps (Matt Prather)
12. 02:58 PM - Re: B&C alternator 30Amp (Sam Hoskins)
13. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: Podunk Int'l (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:54 PM - Internal Batterys for Dynon and VM1000 (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
15. 07:03 PM - Re: Z Diagram Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:47 PM - Re: Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M (Emrath)
17. 10:11 PM - Z Diagram Questions (Jay Brinkmeyer)
18. 11:00 PM - Bridged Amps, miss match impedance (was: Dumb questions) ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M |
At 08:30 PM 1/28/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Instead of running the test lead from the alternator, can one run the lead
>from terminal #4 of the LR3C-14?
Sure . . . you're looking for a voltage measurement
on that lead. The only advantage of moving out on the
lead is to include an ability to sense broken circuits
further downstream.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Problems |
At 08:18 AM 1/28/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I have a B&C 60 Amp alternator and a B&C Voltage regulator. Lately on 3
>occasions, while out flying, after about 20 minutes, my alternator stops
>putting out( Amps go to zero, and volts start dropping). Upon landing and
>charging battery(to Make it home). All works well. Also notice that the
>volts, while cruising, while the alternator is on line, vary from 13.5to
>14.9 . I have checked all the wiring and it SEEMS fine. Do I have a
>voltage regulator problem???
Note 8 in Appendix Z describes a troubleshooting
technique that will help you isolate the problem to
wiring, alternator or regulator. You want to know
exactly where the problem is before you remove anything
from the airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
It is not difficult to make a stainless guillotine valve right on the
firewall. A pull cable pulls a plate over the firewall hole to block it
and control the heat. In case things distort in a fire, I have it set to
pull closed. It is on the cabin side of the FW. Perhaps not as good a
solution for those who have to dump excess manifold heat but excellant
for water heat and for fire blocking.
Ken
snip
> My personal opinion is that there's much more risk from the heater
> penetration, even with stainless parts, than with any penetration
> carrying solid wires or steel cables. If you look at the air gap around
> the flapper valve on the heater penetration, the total area of the gap
> is effectively a gaping hole, compared to a wire penetration filled with
> wire & fire suppressing caulk.
>
> Charlie
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
I found the article that I mentioned on the EAA builders site.
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/firewall/How%20to%20Make%20Firewall%20Grommet%20Shields.html#TopOfPage
Check this out and see if it will work for you.
JF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161057#161057
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Podunk Int'l |
Bob,
Cool airport!
Is that your mansion at the SE corner with its own golf course?
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Interestingly
enough, after his airplane was moved to our Podunk
International Airport
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
Hi Jim,
Clever idea. I presume it's brass so it's corrosion resistant even though
you drilled out the threads.
I saw a clever use of EMT tubing set screw connectors (ie steel electrical
conduit tubing). You can see a picture here (search for 'set-screw'):
http://www.alliedtube.com/electrical-raceways/conduit/emt-connectors-couplings.asp
The builder had notched out the set screw. Personally, I think I'd leave
the set screw hole (and toss the set screw) and make sure the inside of
coupling was free of any burrs, etc. The set screw hole is slightly
raised thus providing a little bit of a "barb" to keep any clamps and fire
sleeve from backing out.
The connectors are available in a variety of nominal sizes from 1/2",
3/4", 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2", all the way up to 4". Any hardware store (at
least in the US) would have the smaller sizes.
I would also think about using some .032 sheet behind the locking nut
rather than have the nut gouge the firewall.
Regards,
/\/elson
Austin, TX
RV-7A - Canopy frame
~~ Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring. ~~
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, rvtach wrote:
>
> Hi-
>
> Working on making firewall penetrations and making them fireproof. I'm using
steel eyeballs for engine control cables and a stainless heater valve. I'm expecting
to have a single penetration for electrical wiring and for engine sensors
etc near the battery box.
>
> I like Bob's modified grab handle method for a fireproof penetration but it's larger and bulkier than I need. And it's probably not a good use of my $time$ to try to come up with a less expensive alternative to the SafeAir 1 stainless fire wall pass through system; it's only $50. But it's $50! I came across a plumbing fitting in the "swamp cooler" section of my local plumbing supply today and it just might be a $3.50 alternative. I have posted some photos at http://picasaweb.google.com/rvtach/FirewallPassthrough that show the hardware.
>
> It comes threaded internally for 1/2" NPT. I removed the threads by running a
7/8" drill through it. The whole thing fits snugly through a 1" hole and is secured
by a threaded nut which would need to be secured with some thread locker.
I would use firesleeve and hose clamps like Bob's grab handle or the SafeAir
1 product. There's just over 1/2" to clamp the sleeve to which is a little
short but should be adequate.
>
> So, can any of you guys think of any problems with this method? Maybe I shouldn't
use brass hardware against the s/s firewall? Brass melts to easily? Anything?
Appreciate any help at all here.
>
> --------
> Jim McChesney
> Tucson, AZ
> RV-7A Finishing Kit
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=160931#160931
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Z Diagram Questions |
Hello,
I'm an RV10 builder with a bunch of questions regarding the Z diagrams. Sidebar:
I really appreciate the obvious amount of work required to put these together.
I'd hate to think how much time and $$ would be wasted rolling my own electrical
system without leveraging this resource.
Cheers,
Jay
* I have in mind using two 17AH batteries to be mounted in the battery mount back
behind the baggage compartment. What's connected from here is up for grabs.
* The current plan is to use one electronic ignition and one traditional mag with
glass panel (and a few steam gauge backups). Others have done this successfully,
so this shouldn't be breaking too much new ground. I believe my choices
are pointing to using either Z-14 (Dual Battery/Alternator/Split Bus) or Z-19RB
(Dual Battery/Single Alt/Rear Batt).
* Z-14 is obviously way more expensive, has more moving parts and appears to be
overkill. However, the Z-19RB (5/4/07) has shows 5 engine/dc power switches as
compared to 3 required for Z-14. In addition, Z-19RB appears to use an obsolete/unavailable
part (ack!) AEC9005-101 low voltage module. I found another Z-19
cousin while pawing around called FOLDOUT4.DWG. This one uses the LR-3 and
appears to be a bit more simple compared to the Z-19RB. Is Z-19RB "dated"?
Q1: Z-14 diagram (rev 5/9/06) strangeness... Both AUX & Main contactors are shown
with 4AWG in and out of the primary terminals. Strangely, the Crossfeed contactor
has 2AWG out (to Main Batt Contactor) which then uses 4AWG going forward
to the Starter contactor. 2AWG is shown from Starter contactor to Starter.
>>> It seems like 2AWG should be used consistently (without mixing 4AWG in series)
to carry high current loads forward? The REAR Battery contactors are close
to batteries, but the Crossfeed
contactor is ~15 feet away on the engine side of the firewall close to
the Starter contactor. Was Z-14 orginally created assuming forward battery placement?
Q2: General ALT fuse question: What's the rationale behind how to size ANL fuses
(maybe max amps - 10 or something)? The fuse protects the wire, right? So are
we assuming the purpose of ANL is to protect against possible runaway ALT operation?
Under what conditions might this scenario occur? Are ANL slow blow fuses?
If so, why would one use those in general? Note 10 didn't go into enough
detail for inquiring minds.
Q3: Some Z diagrams show the LR-3 ALT Controller "Volts Warn" light with a push-to-test
switch. I would think the lamp would light whenever batt power is applied
to the LR-3, but the ALT is not yet running. Is PTT really necessary (it's
yet another switch)?
Q4: A number of Z diagrams show an inline current sensing resistor (w/ voltage
output). Are builders exposing voltmeters on their panel, plumbing volts to EFIS
display or something else? I haven't seen lots of panels with voltmeters hanging
off them except in spam cans... Knowing current state is obviously a great
indicator of ALT health.
Q5: What's your opinion on solid state (i.e. MOSFET) contactors? Are they ready for prime time? Aircraft Spruce lists one on their website, but no pricing is shown (I smell problems). How long should steam guage contactors last under normal operation? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/superSwitch.php
Q6: Why do B&C alternators all use external regulators? Are there safety and/or
MTBF factors to consider as opposed to internally regulated units? The external
LR-3 really add to the total $$.
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
david.nelson(at)pobox.com wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Clever idea. I presume it's brass so it's corrosion resistant even though
> you drilled out the threads.
>
>
[/quote]
Yup. It is solid brass. Any opinions if brass is adequate fire protection in this
application?
> Be aware of possible impact on engine sensor data if sensor leads are too
> close to high current (fat) wires.
> Dale Ensing
>
Hadn't thought of this. I had planned on running my main bus and e-bus feed lines
through this pass through (along with all engine sensors). No really fat wires
(like starter or B-lead) but would there be enough current here for me to
need to make a separate penetration to keep these wires separate?
Really appreciate all the input so far. If I actually do need to make 2 more penetrations
then maybe this is worthwhile ($7 vs $100).
Thanks,
--------
Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A Finishing Kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161114#161114
Message 9
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| Subject: | B&C alternator 30Amps |
Hello,
I've ordered a B&C alternator 433H 30amps for my engine, a C90-14F. They just keep
pushing the shipping date month after month and I'm getting tired of waiting.
1 Does someone already have installed this unit? If yes, is it worth the wait?
2 what other alternative do I have? Needed output is around 30amps max?
Thank you for your help,
Daniel
Zurich, Switzerland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161117#161117
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: B&C alternator 30Amps |
Daniel,
Try a Nippon Denso 35amp auto alternator. You will need an external
regulator and best if you have over voltage protection. B and C do a
reg/over volt combination, I think it is an LR3 C but check their site.
Greg Scott
U.K.
PS
Have such an alternator on my RV4 for 500 plus hours, good as gold. Bought
mine from Van's Aircraft but you could get one from an auto dealer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kakydanou" <daniel.gallaz@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C alternator 30Amps
> <daniel.gallaz@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I've ordered a B&C alternator 433H 30amps for my engine, a C90-14F. They
> just keep pushing the shipping date month after month and I'm getting
> tired of waiting.
> 1 Does someone already have installed this unit? If yes, is it worth the
> wait?
> 2 what other alternative do I have? Needed output is around 30amps max?
> Thank you for your help,
>
> Daniel
> Zurich, Switzerland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161117#161117
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: B&C alternator 30Amps |
433H doesn't look like one of the B&C part numbers. Maybe a reseller's
number? I don't see a 30A alternator for a Continental on there. They
have a 12A unit listed here:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?17X358218
One complication about using an automotive alternator (ND) on a
Continental is that many (all?) of their small engines don't have a belt
driven alternator; they're mostly gear driven. One could design a belt
drive for one of these engines (making it like the accessory case driven
big bore Continentals). Or one could add a pulley to the crank end - I've
seen that on some engines.
Regards,
Matt-
> <gregory.scott1@virgin.net>
>
> Daniel,
> Try a Nippon Denso 35amp auto alternator. You will need an external
> regulator and best if you have over voltage protection. B and C do a
> reg/over volt combination, I think it is an LR3 C but check their site.
> Greg Scott
> U.K.
> PS
> Have such an alternator on my RV4 for 500 plus hours, good as gold.
> Bought
> mine from Van's Aircraft but you could get one from an auto dealer.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kakydanou" <daniel.gallaz@hotmail.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:44 PM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C alternator 30Amps
>
>
>> <daniel.gallaz@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've ordered a B&C alternator 433H 30amps for my engine, a C90-14F. They
>> just keep pushing the shipping date month after month and I'm getting
>> tired of waiting.
>> 1 Does someone already have installed this unit? If yes, is it worth
>> the
>> wait?
>> 2 what other alternative do I have? Needed output is around 30amps
>> max?
>> Thank you for your help,
>>
>> Daniel
>> Zurich, Switzerland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161117#161117
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: B&C alternator 30Amp |
Are you sure you need 30 amps? I would think most day VFR C-90s could get
by fine with the B&C 200G. That's what I used for the last 20 years in my
Q-200.
Sam
Murphysboro, IL
On Jan 29, 2008 11:44 AM, kakydanou <daniel.gallaz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> daniel.gallaz@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I've ordered a B&C alternator 433H 30amps for my engine, a C90-14F. They
> just keep pushing the shipping date month after month and I'm getting tir
ed
> of waiting.
> 1=B0 Does someone already have installed this unit? If yes, is it worth t
he
> wait?
> 2=B0 what other alternative do I have? Needed output is around 30amps max
?
> Thank you for your help,
>
> Daniel
> Zurich, Switzerland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=161117#161117
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Podunk Int'l |
At 10:30 AM 1/29/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob,
>Cool airport!
>Is that your mansion at the SE corner with its own golf course?
>Stan Sutterfield
>Do not archive
No. While we were operating the airport, we
lived in a rather old and leaky mobile home that you
can't see under the trees. The big hangar
just south of the trees is the one where
Burt Lancaster set up his changing facilities
while filming segments of "Gypsy Moths" on
1K1. The small roof peeking through the trees
is the airport office with the white concrete
fueling ramp out front to the west. The Mobile
home was right behind the office to the east.
Now we live in Wichita a couple of miles from
Jabara Airport.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Rock_Throw_to_Jabara.jpg
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Internal Batterys for Dynon and VM1000 |
Anyone know what battery Dynon uses for (internal)backup power? Make model
size etc? If you get one from the factory they cost an arm and a leg
($125.00) and I know they must be available from my local battery mart for a
LOT less.
Same question on the internal battery for a legacy (monochrome LCD screen)
VM-1000 DPU? I haven't opened the DPU but since all the battery in there
does is hold up the memory I suspect it's a button cell like those in a PC.
Since this model of VM-1000 is now orphaned it would be nice to find
alternate source for the internal battery. Thanks.
Dean
RV-6A N197DM
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Z Diagram Questions |
At 08:24 AM 1/29/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm an RV10 builder with a bunch of questions regarding the Z diagrams.
>Sidebar: I really appreciate the obvious amount of work required to put
>these together. I'd hate to think how much time and $$ would be wasted
>rolling my own electrical system without leveraging this resource.
>
>Cheers,
>Jay
>
>* I have in mind using two 17AH batteries to be mounted in the battery
>mount back behind the baggage compartment. What's connected from here is
>up for grabs.
Why two?
>* The current plan is to use one electronic ignition and one traditional
>mag with glass panel (and a few steam gauge backups). Others have done
>this successfully, so this shouldn't be breaking too much new ground. I
>believe my choices are pointing to using either Z-14 (Dual
>Battery/Alternator/Split Bus) or Z-19RB (Dual Battery/Single Alt/Rear Batt).
>
>* Z-14 is obviously way more expensive, has more moving parts and appears
>to be overkill. However, the Z-19RB (5/4/07) has shows 5 engine/dc power
>switches as compared to 3 required for Z-14. In addition, Z-19RB appears
>to use an obsolete/unavailable part (ack!) AEC9005-101 low voltage module.
>I found another Z-19 cousin while pawing around called FOLDOUT4.DWG. This
>one uses the LR-3 and appears to be a bit more simple compared to the
>Z-19RB. Is Z-19RB "dated"?
First, consider Z-13/8 with one battery and tell us how
it falls short of a perceived requirement. If you're
planning any form of non-traditional aircraft ignition,
consider a p-mag.
>Q1: Z-14 diagram (rev 5/9/06) strangeness... Both AUX & Main contactors
>are shown with 4AWG in and out of the primary terminals. Strangely, the
>Crossfeed contactor has 2AWG out (to Main Batt Contactor) which then uses
>4AWG going forward to the Starter contactor. 2AWG is shown from Starter
>contactor to Starter.
Z-14 is not appropriate for 99% of the OBAM projects
under construction . . .
>Q2: General ALT fuse question: What's the rationale behind how to size ANL
>fuses (maybe max amps - 10 or something)? The fuse protects the wire,
>right? So are we assuming the purpose of ANL is to protect against
>possible runaway ALT operation? Under what conditions might this scenario
>occur? Are ANL slow blow fuses? If so, why would one use those in general?
>Note 10 didn't go into enough detail for inquiring minds.
Fuses protect wires only and have no value in
mitigating a runaway alternator condition. A runaway
alternator is generally incapable of opening the
b-lead protection under any conditions.
>Q3: Some Z diagrams show the LR-3 ALT Controller "Volts Warn" light with a
>push-to-test switch. I would think the lamp would light whenever batt
>power is applied to the LR-3, but the ALT is not yet running. Is PTT
>really necessary (it's yet another switch)?
>
>Q4: A number of Z diagrams show an inline current sensing resistor (w/
>voltage output). Are builders exposing voltmeters on their panel, plumbing
>volts to EFIS display or something else? I haven't seen lots of panels
>with voltmeters hanging off them except in spam cans... Knowing current
>state is obviously a great indicator of ALT health.
Only if you know how to interpret what it
displays. See chapter on instrumentation.
>Q5: What's your opinion on solid state (i.e. MOSFET) contactors? Are they
>ready for prime time? Aircraft Spruce lists one on their website, but no
>pricing is shown (I smell problems). How long should steam guage
>contactors last under normal operation?
><http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/superSwitch.php>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/superSwitch.php
>
Don't know how to answer this. I've ssen them last
20 years with no problems and I have some rental
airplanes that got replacements in less than 5 years.
The best answer is that return on investment for these
devices is good. A failure tolerant architecture
makes contactor failure a cost of ownership issue
and not a flight safety issue. That's what I would
use if I were building.
There are no mosfet contactors suited for both
loading and charging a battery . . . mosfet
devices are decidedly one-way streets.
>Q6: Why do B&C alternators all use external regulators? Are there safety
>and/or MTBF factors to consider as opposed to internally regulated units?
>The external LR-3 really add to the total $$.
This is discussed at length in the archives, on
the website articles and chapters in the 'Connection.
At present, there is no practical way to make an
internally regulated alternator function in
the same manner as externally regulated machines
have and still to perform in aircraft. I'm working
on it but my 20-hour a week consulting task has
morphed into another career! See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M |
Bob, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll just have to remember to check
continuity of the field wire from the regulator to the alternator first, but
this means one less wire attached to that big shaky thing to break too.
Marty . . .
Subject: Re: Note 8 in App_ ZR11 M
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckolls.bob@cox.net)
At 08:30 PM 1/28/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Instead of running the test lead from the alternator, can one run the lead
>from terminal #4 of the LR3C-14?
Sure . . . you're looking for a voltage measurement
on that lead. The only advantage of moving out on the
lead is to include an ability to sense broken circuits
further downstream.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Z Diagram Questions |
* I have in mind using two 17AH batteries to be mounted in the battery
mount back behind the baggage compartment. What's connected from here is
up for grabs.
Why two?
>>> Assumming dead alternator... The goal is for battery (or batteries) to provide
adequate power to avionics & ignition system to safely complete flight. Hopefully,
the total available amp-hour capacity exceeds available fuel supply.
The notion is that two batteries provide redundancy if one proves incapable of
providing adequate performance. Rotating one out at each annual reduces dud factor.
<snip>
* Z-14 is obviously way more expensive, has more moving parts and appears
to be overkill. However, the Z-19RB (5/4/07) has shows 5 engine/dc power switches
as compared to 3 required for Z-14. In addition, Z-19RB appears
to use an obsolete/unavailable part (ack!) AEC9005-101 low voltage module.
I found another Z-19 cousin while pawing around called FOLDOUT4.DWG. This one uses
the LR-3 and appears to be a bit more simple compared to the
Z-19RB. Is Z-19RB "dated"?
First, consider Z-13/8 with one battery and tell us how
it falls short of a perceived requirement. If you're planning any form of non-traditional
aircraft ignition,
consider a p-mag.
>>> Z-13 is an attractive setup. However, my understanding is that p-mag devices
aren't available for 6 cylinder (e.g. Lycoming 540) engines. I thought they
were only used on 4 cylinder ones. Therefore, I have not considered Z-13 as a
viable option. Z19RB still seems to fit.
Q1: Z-14 diagram (rev 5/9/06) strangeness... Both AUX & Main contactors
are shown with 4AWG in and out of the primary terminals. Strangely, the
Crossfeed contactor has 2AWG out (to Main Batt Contactor) which then uses
4AWG going forward to the Starter contactor. 2AWG is shown from Starter contactor
to Starter.
Z-14 is not appropriate for 99% of the OBAM projects
under construction . . .
>>> It is overkill. What are the characteristics of the 1% that Z-14 would be good
for? Dual electronic ignition w/ EFIS-only avionics seems a likely candidate.
Q2: General ALT fuse question: What's the rationale behind how to size ANL
fuses (maybe max amps - 10 or something)? <snip>
Fuses protect wires only and have no value in
mitigating a runaway alternator condition. A runaway
alternator is generally incapable of opening the
b-lead protection under any conditions.
>>> Okay, but what size ANL is appropriate for 60A alternator? Something less than
60A ANL? I can't imagine ever pulling anywhere close to 60A total. Dumb question
- Does a 60A alternator put out 60A continuously or does its output vary
depending upon other factors?
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Bridged Amps, miss match impedance (was: Dumb questions) |
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dumb questions
>What Rick is referring to is the differential balanced PAIR
>of wires that goes to each speaker. This is a technique
> that allows TWO amplifiers to drive both wires of a
> speaker out
To add to Bob's comments, "bridged amps", each speaker
wire, Pos and Neg are powered by amps, so don't ground
the speaker's Neg to gnd or airframe gnd. It might be best to
use the pre-amp output of the radio to drive your intercom.
When you connect a car's "bridge amp" to an intercom, with
on single common gnd you have an ISSUE? Most just use the
Pos from L & R & don't connect the Neg speaker wires at
all. It works, but some amps detect an imbalance & may not
work, shutting down, protecting itself. Use a 10uF capacitor
in line with the Pos speaker output, tricking it. For the
ground connection on the intercom? Leave it disconnected
or ground to the airframe (I'm talking about the ground on
the intercom's AUX audio input, not the receiver/CD player.)
I wouldn't use the hi-pwr speaker outputs at all. Most quality
radios today have preamp outputs. Using the speaker output
to drive your little mill-watt intercom is over driving to the
extreme. I guess you can hook-up some speakers to the
high pwr speaker drivers, and "rock-out" at the air show?
Impedance
The other issue is impedance. The impedance from car
receiver speaker output's is typ 8 ohm. Even little portable
players have 16-31 ohm head-phone outputs typically. The
INPUT to the intercom is typically 600-1000 ohms. This
miss-match will reduce the volume or gain. It might work,
it might not. The best way to handle this is a matching
transformer. A cars pre-amp output is typically of 2v to 5v,
so the mismatch may not be a big issue, since it has pwr
to overcome the inefficiency. Battery powered iPods on
the other hand have low pwr output and are affected by
miss-match more, so volume levels can be unacceptably low.
You can buy a solution from these guys. ($35?)
http://www.cirruslog.com/products/imp_adp/garmin_296.htm
(don't use this with a bridged amp, for low power no bridge)
You can make your own. Radio Shack to the rescue.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103254
You need two for stereo.
Model: EI-19 Catalog #: 273-1380
Wire diagram:
http://www.cirruslog.com/products/imp_adp/garmin11.gif
EI-19 may not be the perfect transformers; if you have a
better suggestion or source let us all know.
*** Stereo to Mono Quandary:
If you want to go from stereo to mono (with a portable
low power device) don't tie the L & R together to make
mono directly. You may damage your iPod. Regardless,
it's just poor form. A resistor/capacitor pair is sometimes
used on each L & R channel, isolating them, before
connecting them together to make mono. However with
the miss-match mentioned above, the efficiency is already
pretty low; combined w/ the resistor/capacitor and small
amp, of a portable device, you might not have much volume.
Some will use a resistor/capacitor in line with each
speaker output (L&R) before tying them together.
Another way, use the matching/isolation transformer
above (EI-19) and wire like this.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/856/matchingtransformerfz7.jpg
(The radio shack audio transformer has a center tap
on the 1000 ohm side. Again not for high powered bridge
amps, just little low drive MP3, pocket AM/FM radios.)
The third way to handle low volume of portable devices
is this isolation / pre-amp. Here is a home made design
you build from your own parts (not a kit).
http://www.minidisc.org/headbanger.html
Enjoy George ATP/CFI - RV7
---------------------------------
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