Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 AM - Is 10,000 uF enough? (ianwilson2)
2. 05:51 AM - Re: Is 10,000 uF enough? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: SL30 nav com radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:40 AM - Re: SL30 nav com radio (rampil)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: SL30 nav com radio (FLAGSTONE)
6. 06:52 AM - Fire wall penetration (James H Nelson)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/02/08 (glen matejcek)
8. 08:51 AM - Re: SL30 nav com radio (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
9. 10:07 AM - Re: SL30 nav com radio (Matt Prather)
10. 11:53 AM - Starter Woes (Peter Mather)
11. 12:39 PM - Mil-W-5088L Wire Size Calculator spreadsheet (jayb)
12. 02:05 PM - Z-13/8 Re: P/E-Mags Bus Feed (Jim Thorne)
13. 02:44 PM - Re: Starter Woes (Peter Pengilly)
14. 03:15 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Re: P/E-Mags Bus Feed (Neal George)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Is 10,000 uF enough? |
I'm (still!) working on a list of parts for my Jabiru X-Air, based on Z-20. B&C
have a kit of parts (504-1) which includes the alternator disconnect relay,
OVM-14 and a 10,000uF capacitor. Z-20 and Note 20, both call for a 20,000 to
50,000uF capacitor. Do you think that I would I be OK with the 10,000 capacitor
in the PMOV kit, or should I order the parts independently and go with a 20,000
- 50,000 uF capacitor?
Many thanks.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162151#162151
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Is 10,000 uF enough? |
At 03:46 AM 2/3/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I'm (still!) working on a list of parts for my Jabiru X-Air, based on
>Z-20. B&C have a kit of parts (504-1) which includes the alternator
>disconnect relay, OVM-14 and a 10,000uF capacitor. Z-20 and Note 20, both
>call for a 20,000 to 50,000uF capacitor. Do you think that I would I be
>OK with the 10,000 capacitor in the PMOV kit, or should I order the parts
>independently and go with a 20,000 - 50,000 uF capacitor?
The "rule of thumb" for filtering is 1,000 uF per
1A of alternator output. This is not critical.
The 10,000 uF is fine but if you want to put a
bigger one on, it's okay too.
Keep in mind that the Z-figures are primarily
intended to illustrate architecture. They're
not intended to suggest a bill of materials.
If anything you find in a z-figure argues with
the manufacturer's suggested parts, the
manufacturer's recommendations should prevail.
You may find perfectly valid reasons for mixing
and matching various accessories. For example,
circuit breakers and fuses are generally inter-
changeable, e-mags and p-mags can be used on
virtually any of the z-figures where those
products will fit the engine, etc.
Bob . . .
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: SL30 nav com radio |
At 12:56 AM 2/3/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>I have a power question:
>The sl30 can accept power either 14v or 28 v
>
>There is also a power input for Nav and com
>
>You CAN power just the nav line and get the nav functions to work.
>
>You get a message on the display that says com failure
>
>
>However you can NOT power just the com portion as the display is blank.
>
>Question is:
>
>Can you power the com portion with 28 volts and the nav portion with 14
>volts at the same time??
>
>I ask since this sl30 will be connected to a DC50 comdat coupler and EX500
>which will both be running off a booster which is taking the aircraft
>normal 14 volt system to 28 to get the ex500 powered along with the dc50.
>
>The DC50 box stress to power the unit from the same breaker as the com
>radio since transmitting with the dc50 unpowered will cause damage to the unit.
>
>However if I lose the booster I would still like to have the nav portion
>of the sl30 if possible.
>
>I would think it would work but do not really want to find out the hard
>way that it does not !!
Your marching off into unproven territory. Since
your chosen configuration for power generation
and distribution is not in the bag of tricks for
folks who do this for a living in TC aircraft,
that combination (along with its unique failure
modes) has never (to my knowledge) been explored
for robustness.
Unless someone here on the List has an intimate
working knowledge of this products internal
characteristics and limits, your most reliable
and probably the only accurate source of information
will come from the factory.
I'm a bit confused tho . . . why not run both
sides from 14V if that's the ship's main source?
I've looked over a few marketing blurbs for this
suite of equipments and it's not obvious to me
why the nav/com cannot be operated totally
from the 14 system.
Bob. . .
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: SL30 nav com radio |
The data output from the SL-30 will be to standard spec regardless
of whether it is run from 14 or 28. It will be understood by any other
box, even one running 400 cycle 3 phase. I would think it a very bad
idea to have half the SL-30 on 14 and the other half on 28.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162172#162172
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: SL30 nav com radio |
Jeff:
I can't answer your question but if you call Garmin at 800.525.6726
x3991, you should get to the AT install/service techs at Garmin. These
are the guys that came over from Apollo when Garmin bought them.
Terry, or John there could answer your question, and if they don't know
they will get hold of the engineers and get the question answered for
you. If you don't get them on that number call 888.442.7646, follow the
prompts until you get the Garmin tech-reps and ask them to put you thru
to the AT guys. I've just spent the last week with them on a
complicated SL30 install and found them to be very knowledgeable and
helpful.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey W. Skiba
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 10:56 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SL30 nav com radio
I have a power question:
The sl30 can accept power either 14v or 28 v
There is also a power input for Nav and com
You CAN power just the nav line and get the nav functions to work.
You get a message on the display that says com failure
However you can NOT power just the com portion as the display is
blank.
Question is:
Can you power the com portion with 28 volts and the nav portion with
14 volts at the same time??
I ask since this sl30 will be connected to a DC50 comdat coupler and
EX500 which will both be running off a booster which is taking the
aircraft normal 14 volt system to 28 to get the ex500 powered along with
the dc50.
The DC50 box stress to power the unit from the same breaker as the com
radio since transmitting with the dc50 unpowered will cause damage to
the unit.
However if I lose the booster I would still like to have the nav
portion of the sl30 if possible.
I would think it would work but do not really want to find out the
hard way that it does not !!
Thanks
Jeff.
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fire wall penetration |
Thanks Bruce for the "direct to" on the fire wall pass through.
Jim
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/02/08 |
HI All-
I went through the same process, with virtually the same result. The only
real differences are to say that I was also able to run my engine control
cables through the grab bar fixtures, and that I went to the aviation
safety dept of the local Lowes and bought a caulk gun sized tube of
intumescent caulk to seal the works up. I think they called it fire block.
As Bob has previously pointed out, this stuff will swell up and fill all
sorts of gaps when heated sufficiently. It also costs a fraction of what
the re-marketer with the SS cabin heat boxes charges.
FWIW-
>
> Bill and others,
> IMHO, I went thru the same thing several years ago. I changed my
> heater box for the same reason. I now have stainless steel in place of
> the aluminum unit. I went to the aviation section of McMaster Carr and
> bought a stainless steel handicap grab bar. It was a short unit but it
> worked out very nice, the flange is welded on and I used the 90* end.
> This allowed me to get all the wires forward. It is amazing how many
> wires go there from the instrumentation we use today. I then used two
> fire shield lengths / diameters to close off the opening. I am going to
> fill any remaining space with RTV copper hi-temp silicone today. I will
> use safety wire to provide the remaining squeeze to seal it wiring to the
> fire shield. You can see it on my web site
> www.websites.expercraft.com/jimn . That may help you in the decision to
> keep the unwanted stuff up front and not on your feet.
>
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | SL30 nav com radio |
>I have a power question:
>The sl30 can accept power either 14v or 28 v
>
>There is also a power input for Nav and com
>
>You CAN power just the nav line and get the nav functions to work.
>
>You get a message on the display that says com failure
>
>
>However you can NOT power just the com portion as the display is blank.
>
>Question is:
>
>Can you power the com portion with 28 volts and the nav portion with 14
>volts at the same time??
>
>I ask since this sl30 will be connected to a DC50 comdat coupler and EX500
>which will both be running off a booster which is taking the aircraft
>normal 14 volt system to 28 to get the ex500 powered along with the dc50.
>
>The DC50 box stress to power the unit from the same breaker as the com
>radio since transmitting with the dc50 unpowered will cause damage to the
unit.
>
>However if I lose the booster I would still like to have the nav portion
>of the sl30 if possible.
>
>I would think it would work but do not really want to find out the hard
>way that it does not !!
I'm a bit confused tho . . . why not run both
sides from 14V if that's the ship's main source?
I've looked over a few marketing blurbs for this
suite of equipments and it's not obvious to me
why the nav/com cannot be operated totally
from the 14 system.
Bob. . .
The #1 reason I want to run 2 voltages is that if the DC50 data coupler
device for the AVidyne ex500 (they share one VHF antenna) looses power it
states it will be Damaged if the com radio (sl30) tries to transmit without
the DC50 powered.
Hence run the sl30 com portion from the same power booster that runs the
DC50 (per dc50 install manual), so that if the dc50 looses power the SL30
also does hence protecting any damage to the DC50.
I will try to call the AT guys at Garmin latter this week to see if the sl30
can be powered in this fashion safely
(thanks for the tip Mark)
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | SL30 nav com radio |
It would be relatively easy to setup a relay to provide power to the SL30.
The 28V bus provides the control signal for the relay - driving the coil.
The relay switching the 14V feed to the COM. If 28V power is lost, the
relay opens, disabling the COM portion of the radio.
Since COM functionality isn't really a safety of flight issue, I wouldn't
be concerned about the added parts count associated with having an extra
relay in the circuit.
You could also (instead) use 28V to control a relay in line with the PTT
circuit on the COM portion of the radio. Drive the power input to the COM
portion straight through with 14V. Then even after loss of 28V power you
could still safely receive on the COM - the transmitter would be disabled
- possibly useful.
Matt-
> <jskiba@icosa.net>
>
>>I have a power question:
>
>>The sl30 can accept power either 14v or 28 v
>>
>>There is also a power input for Nav and com
>>
>>You CAN power just the nav line and get the nav functions to work.
>>
>>You get a message on the display that says com failure
>>
>>
>>However you can NOT power just the com portion as the display is blank.
>>
>>Question is:
>>
>>Can you power the com portion with 28 volts and the nav portion with 14
>>volts at the same time??
>>
>>I ask since this sl30 will be connected to a DC50 comdat coupler and
>> EX500
>>which will both be running off a booster which is taking the aircraft
>>normal 14 volt system to 28 to get the ex500 powered along with the dc50.
>>
>>The DC50 box stress to power the unit from the same breaker as the com
>>radio since transmitting with the dc50 unpowered will cause damage to the
> unit.
>>
>>However if I lose the booster I would still like to have the nav portion
>>of the sl30 if possible.
>>
>>I would think it would work but do not really want to find out the hard
>>way that it does not !!
>
> I'm a bit confused tho . . . why not run both
> sides from 14V if that's the ship's main source?
> I've looked over a few marketing blurbs for this
> suite of equipments and it's not obvious to me
> why the nav/com cannot be operated totally
> from the 14 system.
>
> Bob. . .
>
> The #1 reason I want to run 2 voltages is that if the DC50 data coupler
> device for the AVidyne ex500 (they share one VHF antenna) looses power it
> states it will be Damaged if the com radio (sl30) tries to transmit
> without
> the DC50 powered.
>
> Hence run the sl30 com portion from the same power booster that runs the
> DC50 (per dc50 install manual), so that if the dc50 looses power the SL30
> also does hence protecting any damage to the DC50.
>
> I will try to call the AT guys at Garmin latter this week to see if the
> sl30
> can be powered in this fashion safely
> (thanks for the tip Mark)
>
>
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi all
I've got a Magnaflite MZ6222 starter on my IO-320, Odyessy PC680 battery, #2
welding cable from battery to master contactor and to firewall earth (15"
and 12" respectively), 14" copper braid from firewall earth to sump bolt at
rear of engine, 6" copper bus bar from master contactor to starter
contactor, 24" #4 Tefzel from starter contactor to starter and am having
problems as follows.
The engine has very good compressions and a new bottom end so is tight but
easy enough to turn over by hand. Symptoms are that the starter finds it
very hard to get the engine over the first compression even when the engine
is warm, but when turning rotates the prop very very fast. The prop is wood
so very little flywheel effect.
The starter was "as new" second hand and has no obvious faults.
Questions: Are these symptoms typical of magnaflites in general or could
mine be faulty? If so what is a decent starter (must be short version as the
fuel feed from the injector to the flow divider runs behind the starter)
that doesn't need engine mods or rewiring. Alternatively how can I diagnose
if I'm losing voltage somewhere and/or check the starter? All connections
are checked and good and runs as short as possible.
Any ideas/suggestions gratefully received
Best regards
Peter
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Mil-W-5088L Wire Size Calculator spreadsheet |
PRetty handy wire size calculator spreadsheet is attached. Has anyone used it before?
I've been playing around with it some and it looks to be pretty accurate.
There may be a newer version, but I haven't yet been able to locate the author
(Scott Dahlgren) to ask...
Regards,
Jay
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=162223#162223
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wire_size_107.xls
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Z-13/8 RE: P/E-Mags Bus Feed |
Looking carefully at the drawing the inset in the lower right side
shows the P-Mag fed from the "Main Bus" and the E-Mag fed through the
S700-2-10 switch from the "Battery Bus". Then if you look at the upper
left hand part of the drawing at the "Main Battery Bus" you see both the
right and left ignitions coming off this bus. I think my question is
this...Is the "Battery Bus" and the "Main Bus" nomenclature in the lower
right inset really the "Main Battery Bus" and not the Battery Bus and
the Main Power Distribution Bus? Probably a dumb question for anyone
than has done more electrical work than changing a light bulb. Do not
archive.
Jim Thorne
RV7A CHD
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Peter,
Sounds like your starter is at fault. Skytec have a very good trouble
shooting page on their website
(http://www.skytecair.com/Troubleshooting.htm), but I suspect you will
be in for a new starter. You could always fit a Skytec or B&C starter
for around $500 + all the usual. If you go the Skytec route, be aware
that their latest "straight" offering (I think the 149-NL) is longer
than the others (HT, PM or LS models), so you will need to ensure you
have sufficient room.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Mather
Sent: 03 February 2008 19:46
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Starter Woes
<peter@mather.com>
Hi all
I've got a Magnaflite MZ6222 starter on my IO-320, Odyessy PC680
battery, #2
welding cable from battery to master contactor and to firewall earth
(15"
and 12" respectively), 14" copper braid from firewall earth to sump bolt
at
rear of engine, 6" copper bus bar from master contactor to starter
contactor, 24" #4 Tefzel from starter contactor to starter and am having
problems as follows.
The engine has very good compressions and a new bottom end so is tight
but
easy enough to turn over by hand. Symptoms are that the starter finds it
very hard to get the engine over the first compression even when the
engine
is warm, but when turning rotates the prop very very fast. The prop is
wood
so very little flywheel effect.
The starter was "as new" second hand and has no obvious faults.
Questions: Are these symptoms typical of magnaflites in general or could
mine be faulty? If so what is a decent starter (must be short version as
the
fuel feed from the injector to the flow divider runs behind the starter)
that doesn't need engine mods or rewiring. Alternatively how can I
diagnose
if I'm losing voltage somewhere and/or check the starter? All
connections
are checked and good and runs as short as possible.
Any ideas/suggestions gratefully received
Best regards
Peter
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Z-13/8 RE: P/E-Mags Bus Feed |
Jim -
The Battery Bus and the Main Bus are indeed two separate circuits. The EMag
is an electrically dependent ignition - lose or remove electrical power and
it quits sparking. Conversely, PMag is NOT electrically dependent - once
above about 900 RPM, it makes it's own power via a small internal
alternator.
Bob's philosophy has been to connect electrically dependent ignitions
directly to the Battery Bus, so that in the event of smoke or other
electrical misbehavior, one can throw the Master OFF and not lose the
engine. Hanging the EMag off the Battery Bus ensures that it will continue
to make sparks with the Master OFF.
Neal George
RV-7 N8ZG
Canopy & Cowling
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Thorne
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 3:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 RE: P/E-Mags Bus Feed
Looking carefully at the drawing the inset in the lower right side shows
the P-Mag fed from the "Main Bus" and the E-Mag fed through the S700-2-10
switch from the "Battery Bus". Then if you look at the upper left hand part
of the drawing at the "Main Battery Bus" you see both the right and left
ignitions coming off this bus. I think my question is this...Is the
"Battery Bus" and the "Main Bus" nomenclature in the lower right inset
really the "Main Battery Bus" and not the Battery Bus and the Main Power
Distribution Bus? Probably a dumb question for anyone than has done more
electrical work than changing a light bulb. Do not archive.
Jim Thorne
RV7A CHD
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|