---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/19/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:31 AM - Slick 6393 (bouguy) 2. 08:06 AM - Re: Z-19 and multiple busses (Corey Crawford) 3. 08:06 AM - Re: Z-19 and multiple busses () 4. 08:46 AM - Re: Z-19 and multiple busses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:47 AM - Re: Z-19 and multiple busses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 11:04 AM - EIS resistor (Sam Marlow) 7. 11:46 AM - Re: EIS resistor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 04:53 PM - Re: EIS resistor (Sam Marlow) 9. 06:20 PM - NEARLY ready for first flight (Cassius Smith) 10. 07:02 PM - Re: NEARLY ready for first flight (Bill Hibbing) 11. 09:10 PM - Re: NEARLY ready for first flight (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Slick 6393 From: "bouguy" Hi , i have a quite new Bendix starting vibrator 10-176487-241B and i would like to know if it is possible to use it with the 6393 left SLICK magneto of the IO540C4B5 of my Barracuda . thanks for reply , Boullu guy . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164978#164978 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:03 AM PST US From: "Corey Crawford" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 and multiple busses Thanks for setting me straight. I was under the impression that normal operation would see both engine power switches on. - Corey On Feb 18, 2008 9:00 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 07:09 PM 2/18/2008 -0700, you wrote: > > >On Feb 18, 2008 6:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III > ><nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote: > >> The dual diodes are intended to isolate a battery > >> with higher state of charge from being tapped by > >> the equipment that has reduced the other battery > >> to a lower state of charge. It's not batteries that > >> are the energy thieves . . . it's stuff you have > >> turned on. > > > >I think I got it .. the diodes prevent the Main Battery from being used > by > >components on the Engine Bus and vise versa. If the two busses would feed > >the exact same components, is there any reason to separate them? The only > >thing I'd lose is not being able to isolate a battery, or am I missing > >something? (I'm not sure being able to isolate a single battery is very > >helpful in this scenario - the whole engine can be isolated with the dc > >power switch if needed). > > I'm not sure about your desire to "isolate a > battery". When the alternator quits, the > energy available is finite and contained totally > within the battery(ies). > > When the low volts warning light comes on, wiring > per Z-19 requires no action on the part of the > pilot except to close the endurance bus alternate > feed switch and open both battery master switches. > Then make preparations for a no-alternator > en-route phase of flight followed by approach to > comfortable landing. Once your comfortable landing > is assured (short final over the numbers) close > the master relays and run as much "stuff" as you > like to complete the flight. > > Normal operations are with the primary engine > power switch ON and the secondary switch off. > Assuming you've done your homework and have > a considered preventative maintenance program > for batteries, then you KNOW how long you > can operate battery only in the endurance > mode. If you have not done your homework and > find that the engine is not running well for > as long as you anticipated, you may have > to close the secondary power switch to allow > the main battery to support the engine. If > the engine battery's lack of capacity proves > to be a surprise, then the main battery's true > condition is probably a mystery too . . . it's > time to call it an emergency. > > The design goal is to minimize in-flight > diagnostics, switch flipping and other > distractions that prevent you from doing > your best as a pilot. With a modicum of > planning it's a no-sweat deal. > > Bob . . . > -- Corey Crawford ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 and multiple busses From: Bob, if I "open both battery master switches" which carry my EFI, ECU and primary fuel pump, my engine will go putt-putt and die. On the other hand closing the #2 fuel pump switch will provide power to the #2 fuel pump from the main bus for my non-running engine. I'm sure you were referring to a standard aircraft engine and not an electrically dependent one. For Z-19 to be effective, the EFI/ECU/FP require at least 1 live feed. That source is not provided on the e-bus. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 and multiple busses --> At 07:09 PM 2/18/2008 -0700, you wrote: >On Feb 18, 2008 6:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III ><nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote: >> The dual diodes are intended to isolate a battery >> with higher state of charge from being tapped by >> the equipment that has reduced the other battery >> to a lower state of charge. It's not batteries that >> are the energy thieves . . . it's stuff you have >> turned on. > >I think I got it .. the diodes prevent the Main Battery from being used >by >components on the Engine Bus and vise versa. If the two busses would feed >the exact same components, is there any reason to separate them? The only >thing I'd lose is not being able to isolate a battery, or am I missing >something? (I'm not sure being able to isolate a single battery is very >helpful in this scenario - the whole engine can be isolated with the dc >power switch if needed). I'm not sure about your desire to "isolate a battery". When the alternator quits, the energy available is finite and contained totally within the battery(ies). When the low volts warning light comes on, wiring per Z-19 requires no action on the part of the pilot except to close the endurance bus alternate feed switch and open both battery master switches. Then make preparations for a no-alternator en-route phase of flight followed by approach to comfortable landing. Once your comfortable landing is assured (short final over the numbers) close the master relays and run as much "stuff" as you like to complete the flight. Normal operations are with the primary engine power switch ON and the secondary switch off. Assuming you've done your homework and have a considered preventative maintenance program for batteries, then you KNOW how long you can operate battery only in the endurance mode. If you have not done your homework and find that the engine is not running well for as long as you anticipated, you may have to close the secondary power switch to allow the main battery to support the engine. If the engine battery's lack of capacity proves to be a surprise, then the main battery's true condition is probably a mystery too . . . it's time to call it an emergency. The design goal is to minimize in-flight diagnostics, switch flipping and other distractions that prevent you from doing your best as a pilot. With a modicum of planning it's a no-sweat deal. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 and multiple busses At 11:02 AM 2/19/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Bob, if I "open both battery master switches" which carry my EFI, ECU >and primary fuel pump, my engine will go putt-putt and die. On the other >hand closing the #2 fuel pump switch will provide power to the #2 fuel >pump from the main bus for my non-running engine. I'm sure you were >referring to a standard aircraft engine and not an electrically >dependent one. For Z-19 to be effective, the EFI/ECU/FP require at least >1 live feed. That source is not provided on the e-bus. Your electrically dependent engine accessories should run from always hot battery busses as illustrated in Z-19 and recommended for ALL the Z-figures. If you've got bad smells in the cockpit you should be able to open all the battery switches and kill the alternator and NOT have the engine stop. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 and multiple busses At 09:01 AM 2/19/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for setting me straight. I was under the impression that normal >operation would see both engine power switches on. The system would "function" with both switches ON. But the purpose for batteries is to have TWO, KNOWN sources of stored energy, one for the engine, one for other stuff. If you do your homework, you never have to close the second engine power switch except during a pre-flight test. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:52 AM PST US From: Sam Marlow Subject: AeroElectric-List: EIS resistor I'm having trouble with my EIS 6000. Thinking about changing the 27k resistor, but I can't find one. My question is, can I put a 22k and a 5.5k in series instead? Thanks, Sam Marlow ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EIS resistor At 01:58 PM 2/19/2008 -0500, you wrote: >I'm having trouble with my EIS 6000. Thinking about changing the 27k >resistor, but I can't find one. My question is, can I put a 22k and a 5.5k >in series instead? >Thanks, >Sam Marlow Sure . . . Or even consider a 50K potentiometer so that you can adjust it to exactly what's needed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:50 PM PST US From: Sam Marlow Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EIS resistor Can I get one at a local Radio Shack, and what exactly do I ask for? Thanks, Sam Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 01:58 PM 2/19/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >> I'm having trouble with my EIS 6000. Thinking about changing the 27k >> resistor, but I can't find one. My question is, can I put a 22k and a >> 5.5k in series instead? >> Thanks, >> Sam Marlow > > Sure . . . Or even consider > a 50K potentiometer so that you > can adjust it to exactly what's needed. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:22 PM PST US From: Cassius Smith Subject: AeroElectric-List: NEARLY ready for first flight Hello all, I'm new to the Matronics list. My son is building an RV7-A, and we used the Aero Electric Connection figure Z-11 with very few modifications (added an SPST switch in front of the Alt. Hold; that was about all). We are using the B&C LR-3 alternator controller, and we used an LED in the panel for the low voltage indicator. My son cranked the engine the first time and just let it idle a couple of minutes. Voltage was indicated on the Dynon EMS-10 as 12.1V, which I'm told is low. We asked around and were told by a couple of folks that 12.1V is normal for idle speeds; it will pick up at higher RPM runups. The low volt indicator was flashing the whole time. Today, we're about ready for first flight. My son did a 1600 RPM runup to check mags, oil pressure, stuff like that. HOWEVER the low voltage light never stopped blinking. He didn't notice the exact voltage reading. When he turned on all the lights, the current draw went into the red. Here's my question - how do I start trying to debug this problem? Do I suspect the alternator, the LR-3, or what? It was about 30 degrees at the hangar when he shut the engine down, so I haven't had the chance to check the wiring connectivity yet, and I know that's the first step. The EMS is connected to the main power bus, so it's not behind the bridge diode that protects the E-bus. Any suggestions? Cassius Smith ----------------- "With the possible exception of the equator, everything begins somewhere." C. S. Lewis ----------------- "With the possible exception of the equator, everything begins somewhere." C. S. Lewis ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:19 PM PST US From: "Bill Hibbing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NEARLY ready for first flight Check the B&C web site. They have a troubleshooting guide for the LR-3. Print it out and follow it. I had roughly the same problem when I first tried my electrical system with the alternator and using the guide I found I had made a bad crimp connection. Easy fix. Good luck. Bill Glasair SIIS-FT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cassius Smith" Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: NEARLY ready for first flight > > > Hello all, > I'm new to the Matronics list. My son is building an RV7-A, and we used > the Aero Electric Connection figure Z-11 with very few modifications > (added an SPST switch in front of the Alt. Hold; that was about all). We > are using the B&C LR-3 alternator controller, and we used an LED in the > panel for the low voltage indicator. > > My son cranked the engine the first time and just let it idle a couple > of minutes. Voltage was indicated on the Dynon EMS-10 as 12.1V, which > I'm told is low. We asked around and were told by a couple of folks that > 12.1V is normal for idle speeds; it will pick up at higher RPM runups. > The low volt indicator was flashing the whole time. > > Today, we're about ready for first flight. My son did a 1600 RPM runup > to check mags, oil pressure, stuff like that. HOWEVER the low voltage > light never stopped blinking. He didn't notice the exact voltage > reading. When he turned on all the lights, the current draw went into > the red. > > Here's my question - how do I start trying to debug this problem? Do I > suspect the alternator, the LR-3, or what? It was about 30 degrees at > the hangar when he shut the engine down, so I haven't had the chance to > check the wiring connectivity yet, and I know that's the first step. > > The EMS is connected to the main power bus, so it's not behind the > bridge diode that protects the E-bus. > > Any suggestions? > > Cassius Smith > > ----------------- > "With the possible exception of the equator, everything begins > somewhere." > C. S. Lewis > ----------------- > "With the possible exception of the equator, everything begins > somewhere." > C. S. Lewis > > > -- > 10:55 AM > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:54 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NEARLY ready for first flight At 07:16 PM 2/19/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello all, >I'm new to the Matronics list. My son is building an RV7-A, and we used >the Aero Electric Connection figure Z-11 with very few modifications >(added an SPST switch in front of the Alt. Hold; that was about all). We >are using the B&C LR-3 alternator controller, and we used an LED in the >panel for the low voltage indicator. > >My son cranked the engine the first time and just let it idle a couple >of minutes. Voltage was indicated on the Dynon EMS-10 as 12.1V, which >I'm told is low. We asked around and were told by a couple of folks that >12.1V is normal for idle speeds; it will pick up at higher RPM runups. >The low volt indicator was flashing the whole time. > >Today, we're about ready for first flight. My son did a 1600 RPM runup >to check mags, oil pressure, stuff like that. HOWEVER the low voltage >light never stopped blinking. He didn't notice the exact voltage >reading. When he turned on all the lights, the current draw went into >the red. > >Here's my question - how do I start trying to debug this problem? Do I >suspect the alternator, the LR-3, or what? It was about 30 degrees at >the hangar when he shut the engine down, so I haven't had the chance to >check the wiring connectivity yet, and I know that's the first step. > >The EMS is connected to the main power bus, so it's not behind the >bridge diode that protects the E-bus. > >Any suggestions? > >Cassius Smith There's a troubleshooting procedure for the LR-3 published at: http://bandc.biz/Downloads.html Pick the one appropriate to the model you have. There's a general troubleshooting guide for externally regulated alternators in Appendix Z to the AeroElectric Connection which you can download at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11M.pdf See Note 8 on Page Z-7. Let us know what you find. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.