Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:15 AM - AeroElectric Manual (Keith Rhea)
2. 08:05 AM - Re: DPDT high-current contactor needed (Jim McBurney)
3. 08:35 AM - Re: AeroElectric Manual (David Dalton)
4. 12:22 PM - Re: DPDT high-current contactor needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 12:48 PM - Re: AeroElectric Manual (Charlie England)
6. 04:25 PM - (jim-bean@ATT.NET)
7. 05:49 PM - Smoke ()
8. 08:50 PM - Re: Smoke (Sam Hoskins)
Message 1
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Subject: | AeroElectric Manual |
Bob: any chance of getting an manual? I have tried to order online.
Thanks
Keith Rhea
N52VP
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: DPDT high-current contactor needed |
Hi, Bob,
I miswrote in my original post, and was graciously corrected off-list by
bakerocb@cox.net. I should have used the term "switch" instead of
"contactor", as what I envision is a dpdt switch, manually operated, that is
heavy enough to carry the ~400 amps that the starter might pull when
engaged. Normal operating current would be much less, just battery charge
current. I would throw the switch to "start" before energizing the starter
contactor, giving me 24v at the starter, then go back to "run" position when
starting is complete. 0 amps make and break on the "start" side, few amps
make and break on "run" side, must carry the heavy current when starter is
energized.
bakerocb@cox.net gave me a link to Blue Sea Systems, which may have what I
need. Other suggestions are welcome, though.
Oh, and DO NOT ARCHIVE. (I forgot that last post.)
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric Manual |
I placed an order a couple weeks back also, and am still anxiously waiting
for delivery.
David Dalton
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Keith Rhea <krhea@sktc.net> wrote:
>
> Bob: any chance of getting an manual? I have tried to order online.
>
> Thanks
>
> Keith Rhea
> N52VP
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: DPDT high-current contactor needed |
At 10:54 AM 3/18/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Hi, Bob,
>
>I miswrote in my original post, and was graciously corrected off-list by
>bakerocb@cox.net. I should have used the term "switch" instead of
>"contactor", as what I envision is a dpdt switch, manually operated, that is
>heavy enough to carry the ~400 amps that the starter might pull when
>engaged. Normal operating current would be much less, just battery charge
>current. I would throw the switch to "start" before energizing the starter
>contactor, giving me 24v at the starter, then go back to "run" position when
>starting is complete. 0 amps make and break on the "start" side, few amps
>make and break on "run" side, must carry the heavy current when starter is
>energized.
>bakerocb@cox.net gave me a link to Blue Sea Systems, which may have what I
>need. Other suggestions are welcome, though.
>Oh, and DO NOT ARCHIVE. (I forgot that last post.)
That's what I understood you to mean . . . and the only
products I've seen to address that design goal were not
manual devices . . . but custom electro-mechanical
constructs.
You can emulate this activity with a series of single
pole, battery switches that are readily available through
speed shops. Battery disconnect switches are required
on most competition vehicles. As long as you throw
them in the proper sequence, you won't blow any fat
fuses. My best recommendation is that you use the contactor
array described . . .
Perhaps someone on the List has a broader experience/
knowledge than I and can make a recommendation.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric Manual |
My wife ordered one for my B-day about 8 days ago, & it came in 4 days
later.
Charlie
David Dalton wrote:
> I placed an order a couple weeks back also, and am still anxiously
> waiting for delivery.
>
> David Dalton
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Keith Rhea <krhea@sktc.net
> <mailto:krhea@sktc.net>> wrote:
>
> <krhea@sktc.net <mailto:krhea@sktc.net>>
>
> Bob: any chance of getting an manual? I have tried to order online.
>
> Thanks
>
> Keith Rhea
> N52VP
>
Message 6
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Message 7
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Last evening I experienced smoke in the cockpit of my Kitfox--912S.
First, I want to thank Bob N for convincing me of the importance of
using Z16, incorporating an E-Bus circuit. Worked great and reduced the
load on my "little" motorcycle battery so that I maintained > 11.5 v for
the 15 min duration of my flt.
It was twilight & I had Whelan strobe & nav lights on, near max elec
capacity for the 912 generator. I threw on the landing lt to see what
the added load would do to the system. (Probably not a smart move)
Immediately the system voltage, normally runs 13v, began dropping, so I
turned the landing lt off after a few seconds.
I then began doing a series of steep climbs at slow airspeed. After
about five min I noticed a burning odder, thinking to myself "someone
must be burning trash and I'm in the trail of smoke." After about 30
seconds I noticed smoke coming from under the instrument panel and a
much stronger burning odder. I dropped the nose of the airplane--no
more smoke.
At that moment my GRT EIS warning lt flashed and I noticed the system
voltage below 11 v. I turned on the E Bus switch and off on the main.
Voltage came up--12 v I think. No odder or smoke or falling voltage.
After a few minutes I decided to try the main switch again, pulling in
the battery relay and alternator. Voltage began to climb above 12 v to
about 12.5 v. I added strobe & nav lt again causing an immediate
reversal in voltage trend and warning lt came on again as it plunged
below 11 v. Again I went to E Bus an off main. I landed uneventfully.
My guess is the relay over heated with the momentary excessive
electrical draw (does that happen?) causing the smoke. Any Ideas? I
assume I need to replace the regulator??? What would you recommend as a
replacement regulator/source. Anything else??????
Thanks
Frank
N5929
Message 8
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*Positive ground depends upon proper circuit functioning, the
transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral
manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical
circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the
smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working. This can be
verified repeatedly through empirical testing.
When, for example, the smoke escapes from an electrical component (i.e.,
say, a Lucas voltage regulator), it will be observed that the component
stops working. The function of the wire harness is to carry the smoke
from one device to another; when the wire harness "springs a leak", and
lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works afterwards. Starter
motors were frowned upon in British Automobiles for some time, largely
because they consume large quantities of smoke, requiring very large
wires.
It has been noted that Lucas components are possibly more prone to
electrical leakage than Bosch or generic Japanese electrics. Experts
point out that this is because Lucas is British and all things British
leak. British engines leak oil, shock absorbers, hydraulic forks and
disk brakes leak fluid, British tires leak air and the British defense
establishment leaks secrets...so, naturally, British electronics leak
smoke.
The Theory Explained through Discussion.
When wires smoke, how come the smoke is not the same color as the wire?
This is not completely true. When the smoke is in the wire, it is under
pressure (called voltage). The pressure difference causes the color to
change from the normal color we are used to. Not unlike the blood in our
veins and arteries changing color due to the oxygen content. When the
smoke escapes the wire and is exposed to air, the pressure is released,
and the color reverts back to what we commonly recognize as smoke. The
wire then changes to the color of the smoke that escaped.
I hope this helps you understand.
I would only question the last sentence of that description. It has been
my experience that the wire turns a color directly opposite of the
smoke.
Not always true, I think it must depend on the composition of the smoke
in question.
I should have made it a little clearer; the color the wire becomes, is
directly proportional to the escape velocity of the smoke. Higher
velocities generate higher heat. This heat tends to burn the wire and
affect the coloring. The statement was meant to be a generalization,
indicating the fact that the color of the wire does in fact change.
Sorry for the miscommu nication.
I was speaking of electrical smoke which is generally white. The spent
smoke casing generally assumes a color somewhat near black after the
smoke leaves.
I can't stand it anymore! If, as you say, light bulbs suck up darkness
and convert it to smoke which is transmitted (via wire) to a power
source for recycling...why do car batteries go dead when lights are left
on? Do car batteries (and flashlight batteries for that matter) have a
limited amount of storage capability? Is it like a hard drive that gets
so full that you have to double-space and then lose all data?
Now you're getting it.......
I thought you guys were smarter than this. Of course the battery stores
the smoke. In fact it can store so much smoke that if you open the top
and light a match, the resulting explosion can do serious damage. I'm
sure you are aware that usually where there's smoke there's fire. If you
connect the battery to a charger, the smoke is then returned to the wire
(Remember, a light bulb wont work unless it is connected to a wire
system) for the utility companies to use. Your hard drive analogy is a
very good example.
Our hardware guys might be onto something in their quest for superior
wiring. I have noticed the unique method of series/parallel wiring the
power strips on our systems seems to prevent the smoke from getting out
of the wires. A "Smoke Loop" of sorts. In the case of the "smoked"
workstation recently, you should notice that this was a conventional
single power strip installation.
Since color is perceived by the cone shaped receptors in our eyes, and
cones require more light that their rod shaped counterparts. Is the sky
blue at night?
At night the process including contraction of the pupil is visual purple
by which the eye adapts to conditions of increased illumination when
facing 300 candle power redeflecting devices.
Since there is a spectrum of light that we as humans cannot see, I
support the theory that everything is going up in smoke, we just can't
see it. This may explain why the neighbors dog barks for no apparent
reason.
I think your basic understanding of smoke systems is remarkable. However
I find a flaw with your theory. The battery is a reusable storage device
for smoke. therefore, one would assume that some sort of one way valve
(we can call it a diode) should be needed to prevent pressure flooding
back into the system while at rest. Unlike the A/C system, the smoke
system is collecting darkness at the headlights and converting it to
smoke. This causes the system to fill up. The battery can contain much
higher pressures and volumes than the wires. If this pressure exceeds
the capacity of the wire, it will cause a rupture as you described. The
rupture can be controlled by a sacrificial device known as a fuse. Bu t
this still doesn't eliminate the problem. Perhaps a two way valve (zener
diode) is used to allow a small amount of pressure to return to the
system, and partially equalize. I find this theory unlikely though, due
to the increase in the force required to start the pump (which is now
under pressure) working again...
The smoke continues circulating through the system, due to the pressure
differential in the battery (smoke pressure/vacuum reservoir). When the
reservoir becomes depleted, the pressure simply equalizes everywhere in
the system (similar to an A/C system when it's turned off) and stuff
just wont work. Notice the relations: Work (W) = Force (F) x Distance
(D); Force (F) = total difference in pressure (Dp) x Area (A).
Therefore, the work done in a pressure system is: Dp x A x D. If the
pressure differential (Dp) is reduced to zero then W = 0 x A x D = 0.
The smoke only escapes the wires when a path is created b etween the
pressure differential areas (@ either the reservoir or the pump) that
has too little restriction. When this happens, the smoke travels through
the wires so fast that the friction between the smoke and the outer
walls of the wiring heats the wires until they rupture. The smoke
continues to escape until its pressure is equalized with the atmosphere,
or until the conduit that provides the path between pressure areas is
severed. When this happens, the sudden drop in pressure allows the wires
to "collapse" slightly and, being soo hot, as the edges of the ruptures
and severed ends touch, the material becomes fused, sealing the system
and retaining the remaining smoke.
Don't forget, when the system is at rest, all the valves, (switches and
relays) are closed, keeping the pressure areas separated. When
restarting the pump, as long as everything is OK, the smoke pressure is
equal on both sides of the pump and there is no net force on the pump
when it begins operating again. Also, within the pump there are
pressure/volume actuated one-way valves with restrictors built in,
arranged in such a way that they keep excess smoke volume recirculating
through an integral smoke loop, which maintains the pressure within
manageable limits.
The excess smoke, created by the light/smoke converters (headlights and
other darkness absorbing devices), is changed back to darkness and
dissipated in small unit concentrations so its dark effect is not
locally observed. The smoke pump impeller (stator), converts smoke into
magnetic flux which does work on the engine. Some of the excess work
energy is dissipated through the cooling system and exhaust in the form
of heat, while the remaining work energy is converted back to smoke and
distributed evenly in small concentrations as you drive. This maintains
the total quantity of smoke in the system at an average that does not
change over time.*
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 7:43 PM, <frank.phyllis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Last evening I experienced smoke in the cockpit of my Kitfox--912S.
>
> First, I want to thank Bob N for convincing me of the importance of
> using Z16, incorporating an E-Bus circuit. Worked great and reduced the
> load on my "little" motorcycle battery so that I maintained > 11.5 v for
> the 15 min duration of my flt.
>
> It was twilight & I had Whelan strobe & nav lights on, near max elec
> capacity for the 912 generator. I threw on the landing lt to see what
> the added load would do to the system. (Probably not a smart move)
> Immediately the system voltage, normally runs 13v, began dropping, so I
> turned the landing lt off after a few seconds.
>
> I then began doing a series of steep climbs at slow airspeed. After
> about five min I noticed a burning odder, thinking to myself "someone
> must be burning trash and I'm in the trail of smoke." After about 30
> seconds I noticed smoke coming from under the instrument panel and a
> much stronger burning odder. I dropped the nose of the airplane--no
> more smoke.
>
> At that moment my GRT EIS warning lt flashed and I noticed the system
> voltage below 11 v. I turned on the E Bus switch and off on the main.
> Voltage came up--12 v I think. No odder or smoke or falling voltage.
>
> After a few minutes I decided to try the main switch again, pulling in
> the battery relay and alternator. Voltage began to climb above 12 v to
> about 12.5 v. I added strobe & nav lt again causing an immediate
> reversal in voltage trend and warning lt came on again as it plunged
> below 11 v. Again I went to E Bus an off main. I landed uneventfully.
>
> My guess is the relay over heated with the momentary excessive
> electrical draw (does that happen?) causing the smoke. Any Ideas? I
> assume I need to replace the regulator??? What would you recommend as a
> replacement regulator/source. Anything else??????
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
> N5929
>
>
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