---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/21/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:42 AM - ELTs (Dawson-Townsend,Timothy) 2. 07:37 AM - Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) (tomvelvick) 3. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) (Vernon Little) 4. 12:58 PM - Re: ELTs (Palvary) 5. 01:19 PM - Re: ELTs (BobsV35B@aol.com) 6. 01:19 PM - Re: ELTs (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 7. 01:23 PM - Re: ELTs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 01:37 PM - Re: ELTs (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 9. 01:43 PM - Re: ELTs (Bill Denton) 10. 02:21 PM - Re: ELTs (Matt Prather) 11. 02:37 PM - Re: ELTs (Palvary) 12. 03:55 PM - Install Manuals (Bill Bradburry) 13. 04:10 PM - Re: Install Manuals (Gilles Thesee) 14. 04:15 PM - Re: Install Manuals (William Slaughter) 15. 04:33 PM - Re: Install Manuals (Gilles Thesee) 16. 04:48 PM - Re: Install Manuals (William Slaughter) 17. 06:20 PM - Re: ELTs (Kelly McMullen) 18. 11:26 PM - Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:00 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: ELTs From: "Dawson-Townsend,Timothy" Jose wrote: "I have an Ameriking AK450 ELT (121.5/243.0MHz)" After next January, the satellites are going to stop listening for 121.5 MHz (too many false alerts), and instead only listen for 406 MHz. So you best bet is to buy a new ELT next year. Bob wrote: "On the other side of the coin, the probability that this piece of equipment will be a major contributor to your surviving the unplanned arrival with the earth is low. An article published in one of the journals a couple of years ago cited something much less than 10% of recovery situations where the ELT figured strongly in the success of the operation." The poor performance of 121.5 MHz probably contributes to that. The 406 MHz signal will offer better accuracy at determining your position, and do it faster, too. Remember the accident that spurred closing a loophole that allowed business jets to fly without ELTs: A Learjet with no ELT went down within 30 miles or so of taking off of Lebanon, NH, but due to snow cover and then dense forest, they didn't find it for over a year . . . TDT Tim Dawson-Townsend RV-10 N52KS tdt@aurora.aero 617-500-4812 (office) 617-905-4800 (mobile) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) From: "tomvelvick" Hi Vern, When my battery is low the Plane Power Alt pulls over 4 amps with the master on. I have had it pop my 5amp field breaker. I increased my C/B to 7 amps and haven't had any more problems. Once the engine is running, the currents drops down to less than 1/2 amp on the field line. Regards, Tom Velvick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171476#171476 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:03 PM PST US From: "Vernon Little" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) We checked this, and blew 10A fuse immediately. Alternator is kaput. V -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tomvelvick Sent: March 21, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) --> Hi Vern, When my battery is low the Plane Power Alt pulls over 4 amps with the master on. I have had it pop my 5amp field breaker. I increased my C/B to 7 amps and haven't had any more problems. Once the engine is running, the currents drops down to less than 1/2 amp on the field line. Regards, Tom Velvick Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171476#171476 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:00 PM PST US From: "Palvary" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF energy. --Jose ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:16 PM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Good Afternoon Jose, Please understand that I am not an expert on the FARs and I have very little electronic knowledge, but I do have a question concerning your antenna installation. Is it not true that the ELT is a required piece of requirement? Because of that, is it not true that the emission from the ELT must meet some certain standard? The last one that I installed did have specifications concerning the available signal emission. It said the antenna that came with the set OR an antennae that met specified standards must be used before the ELT met the regulatory standards. I realize that many regulations do not apply to OBAM aircraft, but I would not be surprised if the regulations concerning the ELT must be followed. Any thoughts thereon? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 3/21/2008 2:59:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, paula.alvary@verizon.net writes: Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF energy. --Jose **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:16 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Answer Steve Fossett! Just the chance of the g switch not working, the antenna being ripped off i s enough to push me to the PLB...Ya sure its another chore to set it off... buts its #2 on my emergency list. I also make sure I am talking to ATC when going across the rocks..I just fi le an IFR flight plan because I can, but VFR flight following is as good as long as they will do it for you. I migth also look into an APHRS datalogger at some point. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Palvary Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a cras h. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is w hy I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF energy. --Jose ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs >Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a >crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will >probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in >point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a >crash?) That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the >best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency >services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as >detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply >trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable >chance of radiating some RF energy. Sounds like you have a realistic understanding of the capabilities/limitations for the system. The simple answer is, "yes, the thing will radiate . . . and probably no worse than some less-than-ideal installations found on some certified aircraft." Best yet, it keeps those-who-know-more-about-airplanes- than-we-do at arms length . . . for awhile. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:38 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Oh yes, the 125.5 ELT has to have an RF power output of just 100mW...PLB's (or 406MHz ELTS) have an output of 5W...I.e a 50 times stronger signal...Ap parently the signal even punches through tree cover. Its the emergency equivilent of a big battery drill compared to a screwdriv er...:) frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:16 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Answer Steve Fossett! Just the chance of the g switch not working, the antenna being ripped off i s enough to push me to the PLB...Ya sure its another chore to set it off... buts its #2 on my emergency list. I also make sure I am talking to ATC when going across the rocks..I just fi le an IFR flight plan because I can, but VFR flight following is as good as long as they will do it for you. I migth also look into an APHRS datalogger at some point. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Palvary Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a cras h. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is w hy I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF energy. --Jose ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:11 PM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELTs I'm not 100% sure, but if you are talking about an Artex ELT, I believe that the TSO covers the unit AND the antenna. If you don't install the correct antenna properly, you won't meet the TSO. And that could lead to an inspection problem. You might want to check the manufacturer's website. Thanks! Bill Denton bdenton@bdenton.com From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Palvary Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:54 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF energy. --Jose ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELTs From: "Matt Prather" What was the question?? > Answer Steve Fossett! > > Just the chance of the g switch not working, the antenna being ripped off > is enough to push me to the PLB...Ya sure its another chore to set it > off...buts its #2 on my emergency list. > > I also make sure I am talking to ATC when going across the rocks..I just > file an IFR flight plan because I can, but VFR flight following is as good > as long as they will do it for you. There's a good amount of the western US over which I have flown where the minimum radar altitude is above 11000MSL. The MEA on the route between BOI and TWF is 10000MSL and there aren't any passes to cross; the route can be comfortably flown at 5500 - and not be even slightly close to terrain. Having to climb to 10000 on such a short trip isn't particularly efficient... I agree with the philosophy you are proposing however. > > I migth also look into an APHRS datalogger at some point. > > Frank > Matt- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:13 PM PST US From: "Palvary" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs Hi Bob S., Because of that, is it not true that the emission from the ELT must meet some certain standard? ------A good point worth considering. I do not have an anwer nor meter to check the output. Best I can do for now is just do a tower check on the hour. I do know that my ELT came with a simple (non-loaded) telescoping antenna (which had broken and dissappeared) and I think the solid wire antenna I made is hopefully as good as that one. Eventually, 406MHz and/or APRS is the way to go. --Jose PS-This is the best list ever. Thanks everyone. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? Thanks, Bill B ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:45 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Bill Bradburry a crit : > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didnt I see where > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? > Bill, At one time, those manuals were concealed on the Garmin website, but they seem to be unavailable now. The revision M is downloadable from my website : http://contrails.free.fr/download.php Scroll down to "Avionique" then "GPS Garmin series 400" Hope this helps, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:07 PM PST US From: "William Slaughter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Try http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm William From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? Thanks, Bill B ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:46 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals William Slaughter a crit : > > Try > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > William and all, Unfortunately Garmin changed their website in order to make their installation manuals no longer readily available to the layman. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:40 PM PST US From: "William Slaughter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals That's not very neighborly. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:29 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals William Slaughter a crit : > > Try > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > William and all, Unfortunately Garmin changed their website in order to make their installation manuals no longer readily available to the layman. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:17 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTs You are correct. All ELTs must meet TSO, and TSO includes antenna spec. Even a different brand antenna for ELT does not meet letter of the law. And yes, it doesn't matter whether experimental or type certified, both are required by reg to have TSOd ELT. Bill Denton wrote: > > Im not 100% sure, but if you are talking about an Artex ELT, I > believe that the TSO covers the unit AND the antenna. If you dont > install the correct antenna properly, you wont meet the TSO. And that > could lead to an inspection problem. > > You might want to check the manufacturers website > > Thanks! > > Bill Denton > > bdenton@bdenton.com > > * > > * ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:24 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) Gentlemen all, you are gussing. Call PP & send it back. Get the real reason. PP does modify the regulator & therefore he's the source of creditable facts. I can say a stock ND should not get hot with BAT/ALT on, but I stand to be corrected. I never tried it. However............ For a regular internally regulated ND alternator, if it uses more than 50 millivolts, with the engine shut down you have voltage regulator or diode issue. Internally regulated alternators do not have a FIELD WIRE of course. >From: Ken >Subject: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) >Would not surprise me Vern. My wee ND IR alternator draws a couple of >amps and heats up quite noticeably with the engine off and the IGN >terminal (and B+ lead) connected to the battery. Fortunately the OV >relay lets me disconnect it by opening the alternator control switch. >Ken Ken is it possible you are reading more than the alternator? Master contactor? --------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.