---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/22/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) (Ken) 2. 07:37 AM - Re: ELTsELTs (Jim McBurney) 3. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 05:17 PM - Re: Smoke () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:16 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: > Gentlemen all, you are gussing. > > Call PP & send it back. Get the real reason. PP does modify the > regulator & therefore he's the source of creditable facts. I can say > a stock ND should not get hot with BAT/ALT on, but I stand to > be corrected. I never tried it. However............ > > For a regular internally regulated ND alternator, if it uses more than > 50 millivolts, with the engine shut down you have voltage regulator or > diode issue. Internally regulated alternators do not have a FIELD > WIRE of course. > > > >From: Ken > > >Subject: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand > new) > >Would not surprise me Vern. My wee ND IR alternator draws a couple of > >amps and heats up quite noticeably with the engine off and the IGN > >terminal (and B+ lead) connected to the battery. Fortunately the OV > >relay lets me disconnect it by opening the alternator control switch. > >Ken > > Ken is it possible you are reading more than the alternator? Master > contactor? > No It was purchased new about 5 years ago and it always did this. Of course in a car the Ign terminal would not be powered with the key in the off or accessory position. Newer models might sense rotation before they power the field. But apparently this 40 amp unit that often is found on small industrial equipment is not that sophisticated. Ken ps. I assume you meant to type 50 milliamps above. I've never seen anything near that high (yet) but standby parasitic current "leakage" is getting ridiculous on cars these days. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:24 AM PST US From: "Jim McBurney" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELTsELTs I know that at this time personal locator beacons aren't legal to be used as ELTs. If someone designed an automatic activation system for a PLB, I wonder if a case could be made to "the-guys-who-know-airplanes-better-than-we-do" to use such in lieu of a TSOd ELT in OBAM aircraft? Just thinking (oops, not supposed to do that). Blue skies and tailwinds Jim CH-801 DeltaHawk diesel Augusta GA 90% done, 90% left ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:50 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) INnn At 11:18 PM 3/21/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Gentlemen all, you are gussing. > >Call PP & send it back. Get the real reason. PP does modify the >regulator & therefore he's the source of creditable facts. I can say >a stock ND should not get hot with BAT/ALT on, but I stand to >be corrected. I never tried it. However............ > I can't imagine that ND would not take advantage of the practice for monitoring rotor motion and shutting down field current if the engine is stopped. >For a regular internally regulated ND alternator, if it uses more than >50 millivolts, with the engine shut down you have voltage regulator or >diode issue. Internally regulated alternators do not have a FIELD >WIRE of course. Plane-Power's offerings that include the externally mounted crowbar ov protection have been modified to bring the internal regulator's b-lead feed out side so that one may effectively shut down the alternator from outside. Normally, this does not require modification of the regulator itself (difficult to do . . . it's a hybrid device and usually sealed up). It does require that you open the b-lead feeder to the regulator and bring it outside (relatively easy). We were offered this information by Mr. Steve Klodd at Plain-Power just over a year ago. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Alternators/Plane_Power/70129A_Plane-Power_SKlodd.pdf > > > >From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> > >Subject: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand > new) > >Would not surprise me Vern. My wee ND IR alternator draws a couple of > >amps and heats up quite noticeably with the engine off and the IGN > >terminal (and B+ lead) connected to the battery. Fortunately the OV > >relay lets me disconnect it by opening the alternator control switch. > >Ken > >Ken is it possible you are reading more than the alternator? Master contactor? I presume that the internal regulator would still be expected to shut the field down if no rotation were sensed. I'll drop a note to Steve requesting clarification. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:38 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke Bob, Today I ran the engine. I was not sure how to make a "hard connection to bypass the control relay" as you suggested. So I just operated the system normally. Minimal load the voltage was initially 11.8 and then went to 11.9 with the master on "alternator". No further change after about three minutes. Looks like I may not be getting alternator input?? As I said, normally I get 13 v. I did not charge the battery before hand. I pulled the covers off (cowling, etc). The relay appears to be undamaged. I don't see any signs that would indicate it was "fried". During the even I was unable to tell exactly where the smoke was actually coming from--just from under the panel. I've ordered another relay. I'll plug it in and see what happens. Any other suggestions? If it's the relay, I'd be happy to send you the old one. Thanks for your help. Frank N5929 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:42 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Smoke At 08:43 PM 3/18/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Last evening I experienced smoke in the cockpit of my Kitfox--912S. > >First, I want to thank Bob N for convincing me of the importance of >using Z16, incorporating an E-Bus circuit. Worked great and reduced the >load on my "little" motorcycle battery so that I maintained > 11.5 v for >the 15 min duration of my flt. > >It was twilight & I had Whelan strobe & nav lights on, near max elec >capacity for the 912 generator. I threw on the landing lt to see what >the added load would do to the system. (Probably not a smart move) >Immediately the system voltage, normally runs 13v, began dropping, so I >turned the landing lt off after a few seconds. > >I then began doing a series of steep climbs at slow airspeed. After >about five min I noticed a burning odder, thinking to myself "someone >must be burning trash and I'm in the trail of smoke." After about 30 >seconds I noticed smoke coming from under the instrument panel and a >much stronger burning odder. I dropped the nose of the airplane--no >more smoke. > >At that moment my GRT EIS warning lt flashed and I noticed the system >voltage below 11 v. I turned on the E Bus switch and off on the main. >Voltage came up--12 v I think. No odder or smoke or falling voltage. > >After a few minutes I decided to try the main switch again, pulling in >the battery relay and alternator. Voltage began to climb above 12 v to >about 12.5 v. I added strobe & nav lt again causing an immediate >reversal in voltage trend and warning lt came on again as it plunged >below 11 v. Again I went to E Bus an off main. I landed uneventfully. > >My guess is the relay over heated with the momentary excessive >electrical draw (does that happen?) causing the smoke. Any Ideas? I >assume I need to replace the regulator??? What would you recommend as a >replacement regulator/source. Anything else?????? Do we know exactly where the smoke was coming from? Is the relay visibly damaged or the regulator? The fact that your voltage started to come up when you re-energized the alternator suggests that the rectifier-regulator was not killed. Try making a hard connection to bypass the control relay and do a ground run to see if the bus voltage comes up . . . do this with a fully charged battery so that you don't have to wait for the alternator to top off the battery. If I'm understanding your words, the relay is what failed. I'd like to get my hands on it for examination. I'd be pleased to send you a replacement but I suspect you can find one much faster locally. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.