---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/23/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:28 AM - Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) () 2. 07:08 AM - Moving a battery (Brett Ferrell) 3. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) (Tim Olson) 4. 07:36 AM - Re: Install Manuals (Brett Ferrell) 5. 09:05 AM - Re: Smoke (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:54 AM - Re: Install Manuals (Don Curry) 7. 11:21 AM - Re: Install Manuals (Bill Schlatterer) 8. 02:19 PM - Re: Moving a battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 05:34 PM - Re: Install Manuals (William Gill) 10. 05:34 PM - UltraLast AA Battery Tests (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 06:13 PM - Re: Install Manuals (currydon@bellsouth.net) 12. 07:07 PM - Re: Smoke () 13. 07:18 PM - TNC Vs BNC (Bill Bradburry) 14. 10:04 PM - What to do with old batteries? (tinnemaha) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:15 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) Yes I meant 50 milliamps and you are right with all the memory keep alive, the parasitic drain is high. I travel and have to sometimes disconnect the battery. I have one of those battery disconnect terminals. It's an old car 1990 but it still has a computer, so I lose the codes and fuel injection mapping. But its better than jumping the the thing. I have some small industrial ND's, new genuine NipponDenso. I'll test it on mine. Interesting. You are right, in a car the IGN is not ON unless the driver puts the IGN switch to the IGN position. Even the industrial alternators have a "soft start" function. The internal VR sense voltage from several places internally from the rotor, stator, rectifier and externally, b-lead, ign and even a remote voltage sense in some models. It does not see RPM, but it sees that EMF from the rotation. With internal timers it ramps the voltage regulator on. So it probably tickles the field a little to get things going, but the ON drain should through the IGN lead is always small . I guess 50 milliamps, but it may be switching the B-lead drain on. The field voltage comes from the b-lead not the IGN lead. The IGN as you know is just an WAKE / SLEEP signal. I wounder if its a leaky rectifier diode? I'll test this. I never checked this. I want to understand how the internal VR works. I wonder what an external VR does being on for a long time before spinning it? >From: Ken >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) >No It was purchased new about 5 years ago and it always did this. >ps. I assume you meant to type 50 milliamps above. I've never seen >anything near that high (yet) but standby parasitic current "leakage" >is getting ridiculous on cars these days. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:39 AM PST US From: Brett Ferrell Subject: AeroElectric-List: Moving a battery Hello all, We've just completed the second flight of our velocity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpyMP7GkA-Y), and find that we really are a bit more nose heavy than is really right, so if I want to carry passengers I need to move my battery from the nose to back near the firewall. So, I'm looking at my options, and want some input. My current wiring diagram is here http://www.velocityxl.com/Power/Power_Distribution.htm . Since it's a pusher I already have a full-sized 2 gauge wire running the full length of the airplane for the starter and the ground. My concern is around the battery bus and the ground power, they currently connect directly to the batter contactor's always-hot side with short runs. I don't really want to move these bits, nor do I really want them on the switched-side of the master. However, I'm not tickled with the idea of have a 20' run of always hot 2ga wire either. I thought about putting a 200A ANL current limiter on both ends, since you only *need* to protect the wire, but who am I kidding, only 200A? That's not going to help sleep at night knowing she's in the hangar like that. So, it seems to me that my only *realistic* options are: 1) put the ground power in the back, and fuse the battery bus always-hot at 30A (since it back-feeds the e-bus) with a new 8 gauge or so wire 2) put the ground power on the switched side, and require the master be on to charge the battery (and fuse the battery bus always-hot at 30A, same as #1) 3) ?? Any thoughts and/or suggestions greatly appreciated. Brett ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:28 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand new) Are you sure it's a 40A unit? I thought Plane Power only made 60A and 70A units. (and, a 50A continental model) Could it be either a larger unit than you think, or a different brand? Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Ken wrote: > > gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: >> Gentlemen all, you are gussing. >> >> Call PP & send it back. Get the real reason. PP does modify the >> regulator & therefore he's the source of creditable facts. I can say >> a stock ND should not get hot with BAT/ALT on, but I stand to >> be corrected. I never tried it. However............ >> >> For a regular internally regulated ND alternator, if it uses more than >> 50 millivolts, with the engine shut down you have voltage regulator or >> diode issue. Internally regulated alternators do not have a FIELD >> WIRE of course. >> >> >> >From: Ken > >> >Subject: Re: Plane Power Alternator Failure (brand >> new) >> >Would not surprise me Vern. My wee ND IR alternator draws a couple of >> >amps and heats up quite noticeably with the engine off and the IGN >> >terminal (and B+ lead) connected to the battery. Fortunately the OV >> >relay lets me disconnect it by opening the alternator control switch. >> >Ken >> >> Ken is it possible you are reading more than the alternator? Master >> contactor? >> > > No > It was purchased new about 5 years ago and it always did this. Of course > in a car the Ign terminal would not be powered with the key in the off > or accessory position. Newer models might sense rotation before they > power the field. But apparently this 40 amp unit that often is found on > small industrial equipment is not that sophisticated. > Ken > > ps. I assume you meant to type 50 milliamps above. I've never seen > anything near that high (yet) but standby parasitic current "leakage" is > getting ridiculous on cars these days. > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:00 AM PST US From: Brett Ferrell Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you can still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I found are listed here) http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15-CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf Brett William Slaughter wrote: > Try > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > > > > William > > > > > > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didnt I see where > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill B > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * > > > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke At 08:13 PM 3/22/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Today I ran the engine. I was not sure how to make a "hard connection >to bypass the control relay" as you suggested. Take the relay out of the circuit. I.e. don't use the relay to control it, just let the alternator be ON all the time. > So I just operated the >system normally. Minimal load the voltage was initially 11.8 and then >went to 11.9 with the master on "alternator". No further change after >about three minutes. Looks like I may not be getting alternator input?? >As I said, normally I get 13 v. It should certainly be higher than 12v . . . the battery delivers energy at 12.5 and below, it gets charged at 13.5 and above. Your normal operating voltage should be around 14.2 to 14.6 volts. What you've described suggests that alternator is either (1) not working due to failed rectifier/regulator or (2) not connected to the system due to a failed relay. >I did not charge the battery before hand. > >I pulled the covers off (cowling, etc). The relay appears to be >undamaged. I don't see any signs that would indicate it was "fried". Hmmmm . . . I've never seen the aftermath of one of these relays going to toast. It has to have happened somewhere, sometime. Even the big guys go up in flames sometimes. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/6041_Contactor.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Failures/6041_Contactor_Failure.jpg >During the even I was unable to tell exactly where the smoke was >actually coming from--just from under the panel. Where are your regulator and relay mounted? If they're under the cowl I'm wondering how you got smoke from either of these devices . . . the engine and people spaces are supposed to be pretty well isolated from each other. >I've ordered another relay. I'll plug it in and see what happens. Any >other suggestions? Yes, take the relay completely out of the circuit disconnect the two fat wires from the relay and hook them to each other. You can cut a little piece of metal (brass is best but a piece of tin can will work) as shown in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Relay_Bypass_Test.jpg The technique here is "divide and conquer" . . . by taking the relay completely out of the equation, you can quickly find if it can be eliminated from the possible root causes of failure. However, at this stage of the investigation, if you could not see visible damage to the relay, I suspect that it is not root cause. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:17 AM PST US From: "Don Curry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Is there any place to get King manuals? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you can > still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I > found are listed here) > > http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pd > f > http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickReferen > ceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15- > CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf > > > Brett > > William Slaughter wrote: > > Try > > > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > > *Bill Bradburry > > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM > > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where > > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill B > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > > ** > > > > * * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:56 AM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals I have a KLN90B POH if you need it. Bill S 7a Ark -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Curry Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals --> Is there any place to get King manuals? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you > can still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones > I found are listed here) > > http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide.pd > f > http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefe > ren > ceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15- > CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf > > > Brett > > William Slaughter wrote: > > Try > > > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > > *Bill Bradburry > > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM > > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where > > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill B > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > > ** > > > > * * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Moving a battery At 10:00 AM 3/23/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello all, > >We've just completed the second flight of our velocity >(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpyMP7GkA-Y), and find that we really >are a bit more nose heavy than is really right, so if I want to carry >passengers I need to move my battery from the nose to back near the >firewall. So, I'm looking at my options, and want some input. > >My current wiring diagram is here >http://www.velocityxl.com/Power/Power_Distribution.htm . Since it's a >pusher I already have a full-sized 2 gauge wire running the full length >of the airplane for the starter and the ground. My concern is around >the battery bus and the ground power, they currently connect directly to >the batter contactor's always-hot side with short runs. I don't really >want to move these bits, nor do I really want them on the switched-side >of the master. However, I'm not tickled with the idea of have a 20' run >of always hot 2ga wire either. I thought about putting a 200A ANL >current limiter on both ends, since you only *need* to protect the wire, >but who am I kidding, only 200A? That's not going to help sleep at >night knowing she's in the hangar like that. > >So, it seems to me that my only *realistic* options are: >1) put the ground power in the back, and fuse the battery bus always-hot >at 30A (since it back-feeds the e-bus) with a new 8 gauge or so wire That seems to be the best solution. Given that you have dual alternators a-la Z-12, then perhaps an e-bus is overly redundant. Just tie it right to the main bus. If ground power moves aft, then your panel feeders for the main bus and ground can probably drop to 4AWG and move the c.g. still further aft. In fact, with the battery back next to the engine, ALL the fat feeders can drop to 4AWG and recover some empty weight too. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:16 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Which ones do you need? Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Curry Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Is there any place to get King manuals? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you can > still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I > found are listed here) > > http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide .pd > f > http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefere n > ceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15- > CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf > > > Brett > > William Slaughter wrote: > > Try > > > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > > *Bill Bradburry > > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM > > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see where > > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill B > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > > ** > > > > * * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:16 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: UltraLast AA Battery Tests A few days ago I received some non-mainstream alkaline AA cells to test for capacity. These are sold under the UltraLast brand. Unfortunately, they do not live up to their name. Their performance is plotted against several other brands at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/AA_Battery_Tests_80322.jpg Seems even the Harbor Freight cells will edge out these puppies. Bad value? Depends. They delivered about 80% of the snort that I got from some Duracell branded cells. Sam's club offers bricks of AA Duracells for about 38 cents apiece . . . so if you can buy "UltraLast" or "Battery.com" cells for 80 or less of 38 cents . . . or about 30 cents each, then they could be said to be a good value. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:32 PM PST US From: currydon@bellsouth.net Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:36 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke I bypassed the control relay as you suggested, Bob. Started off with voltage matching battery 12.25v and quickly (~15 seconds) climbed to 13v. I then plugged the control relay back in. Immediately got the same 13v. I let the engine warm up (5 min). Then set RPM to 3000. Loaded system with nav lts & strobes and it stayed at 13v. Seems the problem has gone away. . .for the moment???? Not sure what else to check. Wind was a bit high to fly. I'll take it up this week to see what happens. (I checked the battery before hand and it was 12.25 v. After all the testing it was 12.85v) I'll come up on the net again if I have additional problems--even if I can figure it out I'll let you know. Thanks Frank N5929 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke At 08:13 PM 3/22/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Today I ran the engine. I was not sure how to make a "hard connection >to bypass the control relay" as you suggested. Take the relay out of the circuit. I.e. don't use the relay to control it, just let the alternator be ON all the time. > So I just operated the >system normally. Minimal load the voltage was initially 11.8 and then >went to 11.9 with the master on "alternator". No further change after >about three minutes. Looks like I may not be getting alternator input?? >As I said, normally I get 13 v. It should certainly be higher than 12v . . . the battery delivers energy at 12.5 and below, it gets charged at 13.5 and above. Your normal operating voltage should be around 14.2 to 14.6 volts. What you've described suggests that alternator is either (1) not working due to failed rectifier/regulator or (2) not connected to the system due to a failed relay. >I did not charge the battery before hand. > >I pulled the covers off (cowling, etc). The relay appears to be >undamaged. I don't see any signs that would indicate it was "fried". Hmmmm . . . I've never seen the aftermath of one of these relays going to toast. It has to have happened somewhere, sometime. Even the big guys go up in flames sometimes. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/6041_Contactor.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Failures/6041_Contactor_Failure.jpg >During the even I was unable to tell exactly where the smoke was >actually coming from--just from under the panel. Where are your regulator and relay mounted? If they're under the cowl I'm wondering how you got smoke from either of these devices . . . the engine and people spaces are supposed to be pretty well isolated from each other. >I've ordered another relay. I'll plug it in and see what happens. Any >other suggestions? Yes, take the relay completely out of the circuit disconnect the two fat wires from the relay and hook them to each other. You can cut a little piece of metal (brass is best but a piece of tin can will work) as shown in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Relay_Bypass_T est.jpg The technique here is "divide and conquer" . . . by taking the relay completely out of the equation, you can quickly find if it can be eliminated from the possible root causes of failure. However, at this stage of the investigation, if you could not see visible damage to the relay, I suspect that it is not root cause. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:54 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: TNC Vs BNC Other than the obvious $20 each, what is the difference between TNC connectors and BNC connectors? Why do I want to spend that much more for the connectors? Other than they are required by Garmin on the GNS430W reason?? Bill B ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:26 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: What to do with old batteries? From: "tinnemaha" Listers, I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad - lost confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the alternator field after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle charge and worked fine until my new battery came in. I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do you do with your old batteries? Thanks, Grant Krueger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172130#172130 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.