---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/24/08: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:24 AM - Re: Install Manuals (Don Curry) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: What to do with old batteries? (Dale Ensing) 3. 05:13 AM - Re: What to do with old batteries? (Bill Boyd) 4. 05:13 AM - Re: Install Manuals (raymondj) 5. 05:59 AM - Re: TNC Vs BNC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:27 AM - Re: Moving a battery (Eric M. Jones) 7. 06:27 AM - Re: What to do with old batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 06:58 AM - Re: Smoke (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:21 AM - Audio iso amp board received! (nauga@brick.net) 10. 09:52 AM - Re: Audio iso amp board received! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 10:13 AM - Re: Install Manuals (Bill Bradburry) 12. 11:00 AM - Re: Audio iso amp board received! (Carlos Trigo) 13. 12:12 PM - Rotax 582 Starter Problem? (Guy Buchanan) 14. 12:19 PM - Re: Install Manuals (Kelly McMullen) 15. 12:35 PM - Re: UltraLast AA Battery Tests (Dennis Golden) 16. 01:28 PM - Re: UltraLast AA Battery Tests (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 01:51 PM - B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference (Carl Morgan) 18. 03:06 PM - Re: Rotax 582 Starter Problem? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 03:15 PM - Re: Audio iso amp board received! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 03:37 PM - KX-145 performance (raymondj) 21. 05:13 PM - Re: KX-145 performance (Kelly McMullen) 22. 06:26 PM - Re: Install Manuals (William Gill) 23. 06:28 PM - Re: KX-145 performance (raymondj) 24. 06:48 PM - Re: Install Manuals (bulsr@bellsouth.net) 25. 06:57 PM - Re: KX-145 performance (William Gill) 26. 07:16 PM - Re: KX-145 performance (raymondj) 27. 08:00 PM - Re: Smoke () 28. 08:26 PM - DME/Transponder Suppression (Don Curry) 29. 10:56 PM - S700-2-1 wiring (mike humphrey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:14 AM PST US From: "Don Curry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Just off the top of my head: KX-155, KX-165, KN-63, KLX-135A, KR-87, KT-76A, KA-39, kma-24. There are probably others. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Gill > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:28 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > Which ones do you need? > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don > Curry > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > Is there any place to get King manuals? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > > > > Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you > can > > still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I > > found are listed here) > > > > http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf > > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide > .pd > > f > > http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf > > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefere > n > > ceGuide.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15- > > CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf > > > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf > > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf > > > > > > Brett > > > > William Slaughter wrote: > > > Try > > > > > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > > > *Bill Bradburry > > > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM > > > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see > where > > > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bill B > > > > > > * * > > > > > > * * > > > > > > * * > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > ** > > > > > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > > > > > ** > > > > > > * * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:28 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What to do with old batteries? Where are you located? I need a new battery for my motorcycle. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "tinnemaha" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:00 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: What to do with old batteries? > > > Listers, > > I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm > extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad - > lost confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the > alternator field after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle > charge and worked fine until my new battery came in. > > I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application > but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do > you do with your old batteries? > > Thanks, > > Grant Krueger > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172130#172130 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:33 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What to do with old batteries? I put my old Odyssey batteries in riding lawnmowers and my standby generator starting circuit and also in amateur radio field service ("picnic table portable") until they completely give up (which is long after they've spent 2-3 years in the plane, then off to the recyclers. They have several lives that way. -Bill B On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 1:00 AM, tinnemaha wrote: > tinnemaha@hotmail.com> > > Listers, > > I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm > extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad - lost > confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the alternator field > after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle charge and worked > fine until my new battery came in. > > I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application > but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do you > do with your old batteries? > > Thanks, > > Grant Krueger > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172130#172130 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:38 AM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Please add KX-145 to the list. Thanks, Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Curry" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 5:19 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > Just off the top of my head: KX-155, KX-165, KN-63, KLX-135A, KR-87, > KT-76A, > KA-39, kma-24. There are probably others. > Don > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Gill >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:28 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >> > >> >> Which ones do you need? >> >> Bill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don >> Curry >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:50 AM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >> >> >> >> Is there any place to get King manuals? >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- >> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Ferrell >> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:30 AM >> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >> > >> >> > >> > Since Gilles offered the 400 manual, I'll just note a few places you >> can >> > still get other Garmin manuals (not all are available, so the ones I >> > found are listed here) >> > >> > http://www.golfsierra.org/reference/GTX327_install.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX327Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GTX330Transponder_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > >> > >> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_PilotsGuide >> .pd >> > f >> > http://www.velocityxl.com/Downloads/143_InstallationManual.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS530_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS400_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GNS430_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > >> > >> http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_QuickRefere >> n >> > ceGuide.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS150XL_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS155XLTSO_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/MX20_QuickReferenceGuide.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL70Transponder_UserGuide.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15OperationManual.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/SL15MAudioPanel_SL15- >> > CDandCD15OperationManual.pdf >> > >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_PilotsGuide.pdf >> > http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPSMAP196_QuickStartGuide.pdf >> > >> > >> > Brett >> > >> > William Slaughter wrote: >> > > Try >> > > >> > > http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.htm >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > William >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of >> > > *Bill Bradburry >> > > *Sent:* Friday, March 21, 2008 5:50 PM >> > > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> > > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > I am looking for an install manual for the GNS430W. Didn't I see >> where >> > > someone had these manuals on a website somewhere? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > Bill B >> > > >> > > * * >> > > >> > > * * >> > > >> > > * * >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > *http://forums.matronics.com* >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> > > >> > > ** >> > > >> > > * * >> > > >> > > * >> > > >> > > >> > > * >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > __________ NOD32 2967 (20080321) Information __________ >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 6:50 PM > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TNC Vs BNC At 10:14 PM 3/23/2008 -0400, you wrote: > > > Other than the obvious $20 each, what is the difference between TNC >connectors and BNC connectors? > >Why do I want to spend that much more for the connectors? Other than they >are required by Garmin on the GNS430W reason?? One is threaded, one is bayonet lock. Both perform as advertised. Connectors are like laundry soap. There are what appears to be dozens of brands . . . most mfg by a handful of companies. Is one soap markedly better than another . . . maybe but it's hard to tell sometimes. Take a look at: http://www.baproducts.com/rf-conn.htm This is but a small sample of the range from which one might select coax connectors. Aboard aircraft, there are few reasons to depart from RG400 coax and BNC connectors . . . but there's no accounting for taste. As to the $20 TNC connector, shop around a bit. There's no reason to pay that much for a TNC connector. See: http://tinyurl.com/2g5t6l Also, if you have a case where your installing a new device having a TNC and it replaced similar device with a BNC, you can use an adapter like: http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0578+RC Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Moving a battery From: "Eric M. Jones" Whenever I hear, "Moving a Battery," my ears perk up. Stein sells the Perihelion Design Super-2-CCA that not only will remove some weight (It's lower weight per foot than copper 4 AWG but has a much lower resistance than silver 2 AWG). SteinAir sells it. Contact them. I still sell the Super-4-CCA, but I will transfer it to Stein when my spool is empty. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172173#172173 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What to do with old batteries? At 10:00 PM 3/23/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Listers, > >I've replaced w/new the Odyssey PC 535 in my Z-11 supported kitfox. I'm >extremely happy with my airplane, but I abused the battery pretty bad - >lost confidence in it when she wouldn't start or even excite the >alternator field after 4 weeks of sitting. Since then it held a trickle >charge and worked fine until my new battery came in. > >I would think the battery is fine for a motorcycle or another application >but can't even give it away on Craig's list. Any suggestions? What do >you do with your old batteries? If the battery has any usable CAPACITY left, here are a couple of things you can do that are outside the normal second-life options for batteries pulled from service in aircraft: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Battery_Second_Life.jpg The battery the light bulb on it was an instrumentation battery that fell to less than 75% of it's new capacity. I had a garage sale derelict headlamp bulb. Forget the number but it only draws 2.5 amps. I glued it to the top of the battery, added a fuse and switch and I've got a big honk'n flashlight that will deliver useful light output for more than 8 hours on a charge. The other battery was new (32 a.h.) about 5 years ago. It's got a 300 watt inverter Velcroed to the top and a tape-handle. I use it when I need to run my instrumentation package in an airplane where access to ship's power is hard to get at. It's been deep cycled perhaps a dozen times. I cap checked it last week at 8A drain (100W) and it's still within a few percent of its new capacity. I won't be making a flashlight out of this one soon. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the battery you describe is pretty well shot. If it won't crank your engine unless it comes off a fresh top-off charge, it's internal resistance is too high to be useful for anything practical. I use the local Batteries-R-Us store to put my used up batteries into the recycle stream. If you don't have one handy, any store that sells car batteries has a scrap-lead pile to which you can contribute your dead lead. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke At 10:03 PM 3/23/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >I bypassed the control relay as you suggested, Bob. Started off with >voltage matching battery 12.25v and quickly (~15 seconds) climbed to >13v. > >I then plugged the control relay back in. Immediately got the same 13v. > >I let the engine warm up (5 min). Then set RPM to 3000. Loaded system >with nav lts & strobes and it stayed at 13v. > >Seems the problem has gone away. . .for the moment???? Not sure what >else to check. > >Wind was a bit high to fly. I'll take it up this week to see what >happens. > > (I checked the battery before hand and it was 12.25 v. After all the >testing it was 12.85v) > >I'll come up on the net again if I have additional problems--even if I >can figure it out I'll let you know. Hmmmm . . . watch your votlage in flight. If it doesn't get to something over 13.8 volts after you've been flying for awhile you need to investigate. Try running minimum loads. Everything OFF for awhile. Do you have a smart charger? Like: http://tinyurl.com/2z2zta or http://tinyurl.com/29f2qp You need to make sure that you have a topped-off battery before you start a test flight. One of these critters will do the job. Then within say 30 minutes after takeoff, your bus voltage should be just over 14 volts. If not, your regulator is set too low and you're not going to fully charge your battery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:35 AM PST US From: "nauga@brick.net" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Audio iso amp board received! A week or so ago I posted here to get Bob N's attention re: his audio isolation amp 'project' board. Bob, I received the board on Saturday and all is well. I'm happy with the outcome and your response more than makes up for the issue I originally posted about. Thanks for the extra service! Dave 'Nauga' Hyde ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:43 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Audio iso amp board received! At 07:58 AM 3/24/2008 -0700, you wrote: > > >A week or so ago I posted here to get Bob N's attention re: his audio >isolation amp >'project' board. Bob, I received the board on Saturday and all is >well. I'm happy >with the outcome and your response more than makes up for the issue I >originally >posted about. Thanks for the extra service! My pleasure sir. I think I need to go get a job. This retirement thing is taking up too much time. I found the misplaced boards so there's now a bucket full in stock. I need to update the DIY package and put them back up on the website. Hmmmm . . . maybe we should turn this into a plug-n-play product. I looked through the order records and we've sold 50 bare boards over the past 4 years. Now if we could just order up 36 hour days . . . Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:47 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals I want to thank everyone for the excellent response to my request for a copy of the GNS430W install manual. I now have a copy of revisions A, B, and C. If anyone wants to upgrade their copy, please let me know. Thanks, Bill B ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:44 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Audio iso amp board received! > > My pleasure sir. I think I need to go get a job. This retirement > thing is taking up too much time. I found the misplaced boards so > there's now a bucket full in stock. I need to update the > DIY package and put them back up on the website. > > Hmmmm . . . maybe we should turn this into a plug-n-play > product. I looked through the order records and we've sold > 50 bare boards over the past 4 years. Now if we could just > order up 36 hour days . . . > > Bob . . . If you put out a critter which mixes several audio warnings (I need some 6 or 7) with stereo music into one double out line to connect to the Intercom, consider me your next client Carlos ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:56 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 582 Starter Problem? All, Can a starter short a battery? This happened on my Ford van and now I think it's happened to my Rotax 582. (Battery appears OK, no start, battery stone dead. How did I know the starter failed on the Ford Van? Easy, first I replaced the batteries, it wouldn't start, then I replaced the starter. The starter fixed it.) Today upon start the Rotax starter engaged for maybe 1/2 second then died. Upon an attempted re-start all I got was a weak solenoid click and the battery was down to 9.7 volts. As of Saturday afternoon the battery was 13 volts and I had left nothing on since then. (I do not know the voltage when I tried to start, but it was definitely not 9.7 volts as the 1/2 engagement was much more energetic than the subsequent clicks.) I have been fighting a cold engine weak start for the past few months, assuming it was ground issues. I had reworked the ground system and replaced the battery to no avail. First, what fails in the starter to dead short the battery? Is there any way to diagnose the starter before I remove it? (Resistance checks, etc.) Can I rebuild the starter? Finally, anybody know if a 912 starter will work on the 582? (I'm interested in the Sky-Tec starter.) Thanks, Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:04 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight. Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than the original Escort 110. raymondj wrote: > > > Please add KX-145 to the list. > > Thanks, > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:37 PM PST US From: Dennis Golden Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: UltraLast AA Battery Tests Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > A few days ago I received some non-mainstream alkaline AA > cells to test for capacity. > > These are sold under the UltraLast brand. Unfortunately, > they do not live up to their name. Their performance is > plotted against several other brands at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/AA_Battery_Tests_80322.jpg > > Seems even the Harbor Freight cells will edge out these > puppies. Bad value? Depends. > > They delivered about 80% of the snort that I got from > some Duracell branded cells. Sam's club offers bricks > of AA Duracells for about 38 cents apiece . . . so if > you can buy "UltraLast" or "Battery.com" cells for 80 > or less of 38 cents . . . or about 30 cents each, then > they could be said to be a good value. Thanks Bob, Fry's normal price is 100 pack at $19.99. I bought them on sale for $14.99. Dennis > Bob . . . > -- Dennis Golden Golden Consulting Services, Inc. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: UltraLast AA Battery Tests At 02:26 PM 3/24/2008 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > They delivered about 80% of the snort that I got from > > some Duracell branded cells. Sam's club offers bricks > > of AA Duracells for about 38 cents apiece . . . so if > > you can buy "UltraLast" or "Battery.com" cells for 80% > > or less of 38 cents . . . or about 30 cents each, then > > they could be said to be a good value. > >Thanks Bob, > >Fry's normal price is 100 pack at $19.99. I bought them on sale for $14.99. > >Dennis Okay. I think you got your money's worth and then some! The very worst cells I ever tested were some obscure brand offered for a short time at O'Rileys's autoparts. I think I bought a small brick of 36 cells for $6.00 and they contained about 70% that of a hot-shot, name-brand product. But at 17 cents each, they were still a good value for energy contained as long as you can live with more frequent replacement. That reminds me, I should test some of those "heavy duty" carbon zinc cells that still seem to grace the shelves of some stores for pretty cheap. I'll pick some up next time I see them. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:21 PM PST US From: "Carl Morgan" Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference Hi, We have been running for about 20 hours now chasing different problems. One outstanding one is magnetic interference from the SD-20 / LR3 combination. We have a TSO'd vertical card compass (and yes it is a southern hemisphere model) mounted in the middle of the panel area (center/center). We are dual alt / dual bus configuration. When the field wire is connected to the SD-20 (lower connection) we get up to 40 degree swing on the compass - it does vary in amount (from 20-40 degrees) based on direction - south seems the worst. Pulling the field breaker causes it swings back about 30 degrees, but the regulator / alt are still have an affect. B&C are saying some swing is 'normal' - but 40 degrees - I'm struggling! I can't calibrate that much out (best effort so far is +- 15 degrees). I've tried changing the location / orientation of the regulator - no difference. I've tried moving another wet compass around the panel / cockpit - it looks like same problem (although a bit hard to tell). I've tried running some grounded braid around the firewall forward side of the field wire - no change. Same symptoms on ground, air, zero RPM and full power. There may be a small movement (< 3 degrees) based on current draw from SD-20. With SD-20 field disconnected and X-Feed in - no movement. Questions: a) Have others got this / solved this? b) Any suggested methods of screening the SD-20? Thanks, Carl -- Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ Checked by AVG. 15:03 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 582 Starter Problem? At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >All, > Can a starter short a battery? This happened on my Ford van and > now I think it's happened to my Rotax 582. (Battery appears OK, no start, > battery stone dead. How did I know the starter failed on the Ford Van? > Easy, first I replaced the batteries, it wouldn't start, then I replaced > the starter. The starter fixed it.) > Today upon start the Rotax starter engaged for maybe 1/2 second > then died. Upon an attempted re-start all I got was a weak solenoid click > and the battery was down to 9.7 volts. As of Saturday afternoon the > battery was 13 volts and I had left nothing on since then. (I do not know > the voltage when I tried to start, but it was definitely not 9.7 volts as > the 1/2 engagement was much more energetic than the subsequent clicks.) I > have been fighting a cold engine weak start for the past few months, > assuming it was ground issues. I had reworked the ground system and > replaced the battery to no avail. > First, what fails in the starter to dead short the battery? Is > there any way to diagnose the starter before I remove it? (Resistance > checks, etc.) Can I rebuild the starter? Finally, anybody know if a 912 > starter will work on the 582? (I'm interested in the Sky-Tec starter.) There's not really enough data to tell the whole story. Starters can fail to work for a host of reasons that include failed battery, loose connections, failed starter contactor, worn brushes in starter and even shorted windings in starter. Killer starters are pretty rare. Modern insulations and assembly techniques make for pretty robust motors even if they're at the bottom of the price structure for similar products. Try these tests: Pull your battery lead terminals off, brighten up with wire brush, grease with Vaseline and reassemble with max recommended torque on fittings. Make sure your battery is topped off. If you don't own a Battery Tender or similar device . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Chargers/Schumacher_1562.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpeg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Minder.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Plus.jpg . . . now would be a good time to acquire one. Walmart used to handle the Schumacher 1562 for about $20. An excellent buy. If you have access to a battery load tester . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg http://www.remybattery.com/images/products/Autometer_Tester_SB-3_LG.jpg Load your topped off battery until its terminal voltage falls to 9 volts and hold that voltage for 15 seconds. At the end of 15 seconds, the ammeter should be showing over 300 amps. Perhaps a service station would test your battery. A Batteries- R-Us store certainly would. If you've eliminated the battery as a possible root cause, then it's time to dig through the rest of the system. Check the terminal voltage at the starter while cranking. 8V is about the minimum and if your battery is in good shape and close to the engine, 9+ volts would not be unexpected. If lower, check voltage drop across starter and battery contactors while cranking. If you haven't made up 20' clip leads for your voltmeter, now would be a good time to do it. I have a couple of long lead-sets for my multimeters that allow me to clip onto remote devices and take readings while sitting in the pilots seat. If all the battery, wiring, connections and contactors are good, then it's time to scrutinize the starter more closely. An inductive ammeter like http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Snap-On_Inductive_Ammeters.jpg is really handy for getting a quick look-see at current flowing in a wire without disconnecting it. The ammeters shown are sold by Snap-On in a set of two for about $60. On goes to 600A for starters, the other to 100A for alternators. If your starter is 'killing' batteries, it's cranking draw will be really high for your size engine. Normally, I wouldn't expect to see more than 150 amps. In all likelihood, your battery is simply gone south with loose connections or bad switching running in second place. The foregoing suggests that with some measurements, it's pretty easy to tell what needs to be done before you get out the wrenches or go into the swaptronics mode of troubleshooting. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:17 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Audio iso amp board received! At 05:56 PM 3/24/2008 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > > > My pleasure sir. I think I need to go get a job. This retirement > > thing is taking up too much time. I found the misplaced boards so > > there's now a bucket full in stock. I need to update the > > DIY package and put them back up on the website. > > > > Hmmmm . . . maybe we should turn this into a plug-n-play > > product. I looked through the order records and we've sold > > 50 bare boards over the past 4 years. Now if we could just > > order up 36 hour days . . . > > > > Bob . . . > > >If you put out a critter which mixes several audio warnings (I need some 6 >or 7) with stereo music into one double out line to connect to the Intercom, >consider me your next client I've got some design notes and did a quick guess at a footprint for a device such as you've described. It would have multi-turn potentiometers right on the board for each input too. It would be about a 2 x 3" fooprint and a 25-pin d-sub connector for input/output connections. I'll keep praying over it but I've got 4-5 new products much closer to completion that need to get up on the website first. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:24 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance Kelly, I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had the poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune done and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for sharing your experience. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > > IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight. > Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than > the original Escort 110. > > raymondj wrote: >> >> >> Please add KX-145 to the list. >> >> Thanks, >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN > > > -- > Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:58 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying. However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a fabric plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install and antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been installed by same shop making same mistakes. I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really old radio, probably at least 20 years. raymondj wrote: > > > Kelly, > > I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had > the poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune > done and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for > sharing your experience. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "Hope for the best, > but prepare for the worst." > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals > > >> >> >> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight. >> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse >> than the original Escort 110. >> >> raymondj wrote: >>> >>> >>> Please add KX-145 to the list. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Raymond Julian >>> Kettle River, MN >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:19 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals Hello Bill, Please forward the latest 430W revision...thanks. Bill RV-7 N151WP Lee's Summit, MO -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:09 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals I want to thank everyone for the excellent response to my request for a copy of the GNS430W install manual. I now have a copy of revisions A, B, and C. If anyone wants to upgrade their copy, please let me know. Thanks, Bill B ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:46 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance Well...., the price was right. I'll be day VFR with a portable backup, if I use it at all. Thanks for the info. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance > > > I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with > them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying. > However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a fabric > plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install and > antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been > installed by same shop making same mistakes. > I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really old > radio, probably at least 20 years. > > raymondj wrote: >> >> >> Kelly, >> >> I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had the >> poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune done >> and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for sharing >> your experience. >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN >> >> "Hope for the best, >> but prepare for the worst." >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >> >> >>> >>> >>> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight. >>> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than >>> the original Escort 110. >>> >>> raymondj wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Please add KX-145 to the list. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Raymond Julian >>>> Kettle River, MN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:35 PM PST US From: bulsr@bellsouth.net Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:00 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance The KX 145 is at least 30 years old and the install manual is available only through ATP (Aircraft Technical Publications, phone 415-330-9500). Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of raymondj Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:24 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance Well...., the price was right. I'll be day VFR with a portable backup, if I use it at all. Thanks for the info. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance > > > I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with > them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying. > However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a fabric > plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install and > antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been > installed by same shop making same mistakes. > I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really old > radio, probably at least 20 years. > > raymondj wrote: >> >> >> Kelly, >> >> I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had the >> poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune done >> and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for sharing >> your experience. >> >> Raymond Julian >> Kettle River, MN >> >> "Hope for the best, >> but prepare for the worst." >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >> >> >>> >>> >>> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight. >>> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse than >>> the original Escort 110. >>> >>> raymondj wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Please add KX-145 to the list. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Raymond Julian >>>> Kettle River, MN >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:56 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance Thanks for the tip. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance > > > The KX 145 is at least 30 years old and the install manual is available > only through ATP (Aircraft Technical Publications, phone 415-330-9500). > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > raymondj > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:24 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance > > > > Well...., the price was right. I'll be day VFR with a portable backup, > if I > use it at all. > Thanks for the info. > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "Hope for the best, > but prepare for the worst." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:58 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-145 performance > > >> >> >> I was a controller in a tower where several planes were equipped with >> them. Had to turn up volume and listen closely when they were flying. >> However, could have been just a very poor installation, like in a > fabric >> plane without proper ground plane, as I know that with good install > and >> antenna, 1 watt is plenty. For all I know, they all could have been >> installed by same shop making same mistakes. >> I hope you have much better results. Of course that is also a really > old >> radio, probably at least 20 years. >> >> raymondj wrote: >>> >>> >>> Kelly, >>> >>> I'm sorry to hear that. What were the circumstances where you had > the >>> poor performance. I'll be sure to have a good bench test and tune > done >>> and try it out before I think about installing it. Thanks for > sharing >>> your experience. >>> >>> Raymond Julian >>> Kettle River, MN >>> >>> "Hope for the best, >>> but prepare for the worst." >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" > >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Install Manuals >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> IMHO, the KX-145 is worthless for anything more than a paperweight. >>>> Weakest transmit power I've ever heard in a production radio, worse > than >>>> the original Escort 110. >>>> >>>> raymondj wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please add KX-145 to the list. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Raymond Julian >>>>> Kettle River, MN >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM >> >> > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 6:50 PM > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:14 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke Bob Is there a way to adjust the DUCATI voltage regulator? Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:30 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Smoke At 10:03 PM 3/23/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >I bypassed the control relay as you suggested, Bob. Started off with >voltage matching battery 12.25v and quickly (~15 seconds) climbed to >13v. > >I then plugged the control relay back in. Immediately got the same 13v. > >I let the engine warm up (5 min). Then set RPM to 3000. Loaded system >with nav lts & strobes and it stayed at 13v. > >Seems the problem has gone away. . .for the moment???? Not sure what >else to check. > >Wind was a bit high to fly. I'll take it up this week to see what >happens. > > (I checked the battery before hand and it was 12.25 v. After all the >testing it was 12.85v) > >I'll come up on the net again if I have additional problems--even if I >can figure it out I'll let you know. Hmmmm . . . watch your votlage in flight. If it doesn't get to something over 13.8 volts after you've been flying for awhile you need to investigate. Try running minimum loads. Everything OFF for awhile. Do you have a smart charger? Like: http://tinyurl.com/2z2zta or http://tinyurl.com/29f2qp You need to make sure that you have a topped-off battery before you start a test flight. One of these critters will do the job. Then within say 30 minutes after takeoff, your bus voltage should be just over 14 volts. If not, your regulator is set too low and you're not going to fully charge your battery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:47 PM PST US From: "Don Curry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: DME/Transponder Suppression When a KT-76A transponder and a KN-63 DME are installed in an aircraft, and the two units are connected via suppression circuitry built into both units, is it necessary to comply with the requirement for there to be 6-foot spacing between the two antennae? I can't find an exception to this rule in the install manual for either unit, yet I understand the suppression circuit is designed to keep each unit from receiving the other unit's transmission. So, why should it matter how close the antennae are to eachother? Thanks, Don ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:44 PM PST US From: "mike humphrey" Subject: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 wiring Bob or any other electrical wizard... Used a S700-2-1 DPDT on-off-on switch to wire my avionics master switch to include panel lights for 'main bus' and 'bat bus'. wired it like this: #3 bat bus & light post #4 light post #2 avionics bus #5 grnd #1 main bus & light post #6 light post When I toggle 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light When I toggle 'off' - everything off When I toggle 'main bus' - everything off When I turn master switch on(battery Cessna Split Switch) 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light 'off' - everything off 'main bus' instruments on - no light What am I doing wrong to get no lights? New switch from B&C. Lights from B&C 12V - Lights work-checked separately direct to battery. Thanks in advance. Mike H 9A/8A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.