---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/26/08: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:35 AM - Re: DME/Transponder Suppression (BobsV35B@aol.com) 2. 04:16 AM - Re: KX-155 Audio Out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 04:33 AM - Re: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 04:52 AM - Re: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 04:52 AM - Re: S700-2-1 wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 05:36 AM - Re: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) (Carlos Trigo) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) (Robert Borger) 8. 07:36 AM - Am I correct....... (Fergus Kyle) 9. 09:33 AM - Re: Question about Resistors (Scott R. Shook) 10. 09:41 AM - Aux power and the battery (Andrew Butler) 11. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) (The Kuffels) 12. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) (Mike Kimball) 13. 03:30 PM - Re: Splicing was (oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?) (RALPH HOOVER) 14. 05:23 PM - METCAL tip cartridges (Tom Barter) 15. 05:35 PM - Re: Aux power and the battery (Richard T. Schaefer) 16. 05:39 PM - Re: Question about Resistors (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 17. 06:23 PM - Re: Aux power and the battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 06:24 PM - Re: Aux power and the battery (Ken) 19. 06:33 PM - Re: Aux power and the battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 06:54 PM - Re: METCAL tip cartridges (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 06:54 PM - Re: METCAL tip cartridges (Charlie England) 22. 07:47 PM - Re: Question about Resistors (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 23. 08:47 PM - Re: Question about Resistors (Vernon Little) 24. 09:52 PM - Re: S700-2-1 wiring (mike humphrey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:07 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DME/Transponder Suppression Good Morning Don and 'Lectric Bob, I imagine you are both aware of this, but just in case some others may not be, the GPS is a legal substitute for any published IFR DME function. The GPS must be in an IFR approved installation configuration, but it does not have to be approach approved, just enroute and terminal approved. The substitution is approved in the entire US National Airspace system and in many other countries as well. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried N3977A Downers Grove, IL In a message dated 3/25/2008 6:25:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nuckolls.bob@cox.net writes: Have you considered a GPS receiver in lieu of DME? DME works with a hand full of ground stations while GPS will give you distance to any point on the surface of the earth. DME is one of those electronic buggy whips that needs to be moved to the museum. Bob . . . **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX-155 Audio Out At 11:49 PM 3/25/2008 +0000, you wrote: >I got tripped up on that term when I was wiring my experimental too. I >have wired alot of car radios and other stuff growing up so the Hi/ Lo >thing seemed strange. Someone on this list straightened me out. The HI is >really the hot wire or feed, the Low is just the ground. Why they don't >call it that is beyond me.. > >do not archive > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >-- "txpilot" wrote: > >I have a KX-155 and a Sigtronics Sport 200 intercom. I'm trying to figure >out the proper wiring between units. The KX-155 has an 'audio hi' and >'audio lo' for both the comm and nav. I'm confused what is meant with the >'hi' and 'lo'. > >Are the 'audio hi' connections supposed to go to the common blue intercom >wire, common with the headset jacks, while the 'audio lo' connections go >to ground? If that's the case, why must the 'audio lo' connections be >shielded if it's going to ground anyway? > >Thanks for your help! > >Dan Ginty Not all "LO" sides of signals paths are necessarily grounded. I wasn't 'in the business' when the vernacular was adopted and in any case, whoever conceived it probably used a reasonable thought process. When one needs to identify power or signal pathways and their functionality, a common vernacular is seldom shared between disciplines. The electricians who wired your house called them "line", "neutral" and "ground". In the DC power world they might favor (+) and (-). In the AC signal world the plus minus thing doesn't fit but there's still a need to differentiate between the two wires for the purposes of phasing. Hence the HI and LO thing. It's quite common for the LO side of a path to get to ground somewhere in the system but be totally floating in the far reaches of the wiring to various components . . . it's that control-your-ground-loops thing. It can be frustrating but those are the cards that are dealt to us. Without seeing the internal schematic for the black boxes your trying to tie together, one cannot deduce the rationale for shielding a LO side wire. I would guess that it's because its simply the ac equivalent of a minus-side in a DC circuit; intended to denote phasing and not necessarily "ground". I've had a few notes from readers over the years chiding me for my "follow the instructions" recommendations for answering questions on shield grounds. "Surely", they say, "there must be some common rules of physics that can/should guide us in all cases." The vernacular adopted by the manufacturer's installation data and the designer's goals for architecture are not necessarily common so the ultimate map to Nirvana is the schematic. If a wire or shield is shown to be connected in a particular manner, then it matters not what it's called or how the shield or wire is used. Schematics are the universal language in electronics even if the symbols are sometimes a bit funny looking. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference At 12:51 PM 3/26/2008 +1300, you wrote: > > >Hi Matt, > >Thanks for the ideas, I'm really not that concerned about the whiskey >compass functionality - if I've lost all my other mag direction indicators - >the engine has stopped, so I don't really care about direction ;-) However >the CAA so far is and the calibration card per regs has to be within 10 >degrees :-(. > >SD-20 off / disconnected - yes I think the compass reads right - but we are >dual bus (two independent active buses), not endurance / essential bus - so >both alts need to be running / working. If you have a cross-feed, then just about every individual who knows- more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will accept a fall back position for dealing with failures that might present other limits as well. Assuming that all other "normal" methods for pointing the nose in the right direction are no longer available, then shutting the SD-20 OFF, closing the cross-feed contactor, reducing total loads to that of the main alternator and flying with a now acceptable performance from the antiquated pointing device is a perfectly valid 'plan-B'. >Wire routing - the B lead and field goes aft from the SD-20 to the firewall, >left across the top of the firewall, aft again through the firewall and back >to a mid location for the regulator which is on a tray between the forward >panel ribs (RV 7A Tipup). The B-lead comes into the cockpit? Where are your batteries? The B-lead can and should be well away from the instrument panel and tie to fat-wires through a small ANL or MAXI fuse. I presume that you're seeing maximum effect with the engine at idle while doing the Mexican hat-dance at the compass rose. These are the conditions where current in the b-lead is least . . . perhaps even zero while current through the field is maxed out. The regulator is hollering down to the engine room for "more power Mr. Scott . . . I need MORE power". Of course, at low engine RPM, the regulator isn't going to get what it wants to see and field current and associated external effects are at their maximums. >Remote compass - it could yet be the option - but I don't like to even think >about the routing of the cables through the tunnel / spar / wing..... Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know- more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of hood ornaments. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:51 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference . . . a luck of the draw with the SD-20 - ie. they all vary abit? We are only taking 3-4 amps under normal operations. I understand some interference coming out, but what is 'too much'? WRT: "This is NOT a downside checkmark on the blackboard for the B&C SD-20. ALL alternators have a steel shaft that runs through the device parallel to the magnetic lines of force generated in the field windings." My biggest complaint is there is NO indication or warnings about this anywhere in the instruction / website information - I would have reconsidered the panel layout with this information, as it is I'm fixed without major rework and it is affecting my Autopilot backup and one of the few instruments the regulator is specifically interested in.... How can I reduce this interference at the source - hopefully a small reduction will be enough to get calibration within spec. It wouldn't hurt to drop B&C a note suggesting that their install literature be appropriately enhanced. But in their defense, this is not a common occurrence . . . you COULD be having a similar problem by routing some fat wire too close to the compass . . . or some other system integration problem like installing one of the older DC motor driven turn indicators too close and having interference from its internal magnets. It's unfortunate that after all the work you've put into the airplane (and being so VERY close to finished) that this problem should become the longest pole in your tent. Welcome to the real world of aviation products design and qualification! 95% of my services to clients on the TC side of the house right now involve chasing $100 rats from multi-million dollar airplanes . . . with those-who-know-more-about-airplanes-than-we-do holding the type certification hostage until the flight system is pest-free. A well considered and easily demonstrated low-risk plan-B for making the compass readings fall within specs is the no-hardware, no hammers-n-saws approach to getting your machine blessed until it's legal to move the "hood ornament" out onto the cowl. Interestingly enough, I recall sometime in the past seeing a compass installation that was on a bracket just outside the windscreen. I think it was put there to get outside the cage of a day-vfr, rag-n-tube machine that was too badly magnetized to allow calibration of the compass when installed in it's normal position within the cockpit. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 wiring At 01:51 AM 3/25/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Bob or any other electrical wizard... > >Used a S700-2-1 DPDT on-off-on switch to wire my avionics master switch to >include panel lights for 'main bus' and 'bat bus'. >wired it like this: > #3 bat bus & light post #4 light post > > #2 avionics bus #5 grnd > > #1 main bus & light post #6 light post > >When I toggle 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light >When I toggle 'off' - everything off >When I toggle 'main bus' - everything off > >When I turn master switch on(battery Cessna Split Switch) > 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light > 'off' - > everything off > 'main bus' instruments on - no light >What am I doing wrong to get no lights? New switch from B&C. Lights from >B&C 12V - Lights work-checked separately direct to battery. >Thanks in advance. >Mike H 9A/8A Mike, can you do a schematic of how your system is wired and post a scan to the List? I'm not sure my mental image based on your words is an accurate depiction of the electron map. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:56 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) > > Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky > compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure > tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know- > more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the > once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of > hood ornaments. > > Bob . . . Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call "Whisky" to the magnetic compass? Is it because you only follow that needle when you had too much scotch before flying :-) Carlos ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:19 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) Carlos, Many many moons ago the damping fluid for the magnetic compass was alcohol as it was cheep, readily available and would not freeze. Good building and great flying, Bob B On Wednesday, March 26, 2008, at 07:52AM, "Carlos Trigo" wrote: > > >> >> Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky >> compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure >> tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know- >> more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the >> once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of >> hood ornaments. >> >> Bob . . . > > >Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call >"Whisky" to the magnetic compass? > >Is it because you only follow that needle when you had too much scotch >before flying >:-) > >Carlos > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:49 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Am I correct....... ..........That message number 19 for Wed, 26Mar08 is over 330 lines long? Why? Ferg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:55 AM PST US From: "Scott R. Shook" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors I have lights! The resistors worked great and my mock up works great. The pins on the Stanley LED's are standard to a project board so mounting them will be easier than I first thought. I am going to do a burn-in and temperature test this weekend to make sure I am not generating heat. For a low voltage, non-critical application like this, would it be acceptable to use a solder bridge for the pins I need to bridge? On the 5 LED bars, you have to bridge 2-3, 4.5, 6-7, 8-9. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R. Shook Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 17:01 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors That is the formula I was looking for. Thank you. The light bars themselves, have 5 LED's so those will go in a series. My last trick will be mounting them and the wiring of said LED's. I am hoping a blank project circuit board will do what I want. The trick with the circuit board will be the spacing requirements (space between light bars). Once that is figured, I can order the face (reverse engraved acrylic). I am also working on a "push-to test" option. As far as the intensity, since these will be behind a reverse engraved acrylic (black behind clear) only the letters themselves will light up. Once I get the mock up completed, the day/night intensity testing will be performed. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Little Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 15:46 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors Hi Scott: Here's the formula: R = (Vbatt-Vf)/If ohms, where Vf is 1.7 V and If is 20 ma (from datasheet) For the part you chose, R = (14.2-1.7)/0.020 = 625 ohms (use 680 ohm standard value) -- if you power each segment seperately. If you connect all 5 of the LEDs in series, then R = (14.2 - 5*1.7)/0.020 285 ohms (use 330 ohm standard value). Now, here's one issue to deal with: If you are dimming the LEDs, you may want to power each segment separately so that they dim the same as other displays in the cockpit. Only experimentation will give you the answer for this. Finally, you may want to try one light bar first before you commit to using them in a panel. They may have a tendency to wash out in bright sunlight. I used to sell a product line that used similar light bars, and this was an issue unless you carefully shield the display from ambient light (such as locating right underneath the glareshield). I found some 1/8" LEDs that will dazzle your eyes, but they were very difficult to dim due to their intensity. Of course, they were tiny and not easy to label!. Good luck. Vern Little. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R. Shook Sent: March 25, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors Bob et al, I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey, the voltage is 1.7v per LED. This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors I would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM aircraft? Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:31 AM PST US From: "Andrew Butler" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on. 1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like to use this as an ad-hoc power for install and testing of components through the build. I was thinking of attaching a standard male cigaratte lighter plug to the leads and then use a female recepticle to receive and power the bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will happen if I do this while the battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system? 2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the battery through the same female cigaratte power port? Thanks for your help. Andrew Butler. RV71700 - Finishing kit. Galway, Ireland. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:26 AM PST US From: The Kuffels Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) do not archive << Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call "Whisky" to the magnetic compass? >> << Many many moons ago the damping fluid for the magnetic compass was alcohol as it was cheep, readily available and would not freeze. >> Although possible, this is not my understanding. Whisky is the American/ICAO/NATO phonetic alphabet word for the letter "W". The W refers to a "wet" compass as opposed to the dry type used by hikers. Have never heard of them filled with anything but glorified kerosene. Tom Kuffel Whitefish, MT Building Original FireStar ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:57 PM PST US From: Mike Kimball Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) Along with following the needle after too much Scotch, sit back and watch the fun when your over-prepared student finds a good spot to stick his flashlight with the magnetic catch. (This really happened.) Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:31 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Whisky compass(was B&C SD-20 and magnetic interference) > > Then consider the special ops protocols for getting the whisky > compass to live in the real world of a highly capable, failure > tolerant electrical system. Perhaps some day, those-who-know- > more-about-airplanes-than-we-do will allow us to relegate the > once venerable magnetic direction indicator to the function of > hood ornaments. > > Bob . . . Just for fun, will somebody please explain why do you Americans call "Whisky" to the magnetic compass? Is it because you only follow that needle when you had too much scotch before flying :-) Carlos ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:49 PM PST US From: "RALPH HOOVER" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Splicing was (oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source?) Bob, Although I have been splicing wire for 45 years I prefer #1 no splices, #2 properly crimped gas tight connectors, or #3 strain relieved connections soldered to a terminal #4 would be a mid span splice. In most cases I will install a connector mid wire run if it may need to be broken for service, or ease of assembly. That said the fewer connections the less likelihood for failure. In the case of the alternator connector any splice adds mass that is hanging a few inches from the connector that then must be supported to prevent it moving in relation to the alternator and breaking the wiring. Yes it's doable but in keeping with KISS I just used the proper terminal as designed. And yes I did splice a few wires mid span in my project, no I didn't need to but I just got lazy and didn't want to pull a longer wire. They will outlast both me and the plane. No worries, the electrons don't know the difference. :) Thanks for all you do, we have all learned a lot. Ralph -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:56 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: oddball 0.25" fast-on terminal source? At 06:48 PM 3/25/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >D, > I had the same issue and bought a roll of AMP tin plated for 18-22 >AWG wire. >DigiKey P/N A27933CT-ND >AMP P/N 60295-2 >If these will help send me your address off list and I will mail you a few. >I bought 100 and needed 3 :( I just couldn't think of butt splices on the >Alternator wires. Why butt splice? You can do a very compact, robust solder splice. See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Tech_Tips/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Sp lices.html Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:47 PM PST US From: "Tom Barter" Subject: AeroElectric-List: METCAL tip cartridges I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For 63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering fat wires, it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. Not sure about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any advice from well acquainted users would be welcome. Tom Barter Kesley, IA Avid Magnum ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:22 PM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery Make sure you have the right polarity. If the power supply does not handle short circuits (internal current limit and shutdown) you might want to fuse it. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Butler Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on. 1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like to use this as an ad-hoc power for install and testing of components through the build. I was thinking of attaching a standard male cigaratte lighter plug to the leads and then use a female recepticle to receive and power the bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will happen if I do this while the battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system? 2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the battery through the same female cigaratte power port? Thanks for your help. Andrew Butler. RV71700 - Finishing kit. Galway, Ireland. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:37 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors In a message dated 03/25/2008 3:15:23 PM Central Daylight Time, sshook@cox.net writes: I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey, the voltage is 1.7v per LED. Hi Scott- I used the same LEDs and they've worked quite nicely for 4 years/almost 500 hours. Here's the arrangement I cobbled together: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7604_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7604) click on foto for larger view. Drawing available in AutoCAD if you'd like a copy... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery At 04:38 PM 3/26/2008 +0000, you wrote: >All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on. > >1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like to use >this as an ad-hoc power for install and testing of components through the >build. I was thinking of attaching a standard male cigaratte lighter plug >to the leads and then use a female recepticle to receive and power the >bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will happen if I do this >while the battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system? 12 volts is a bit too low to be run in parallel with a battery. Generally speaking, 12v power supplies are crafted for energizing electronics. Since 12v batteries in vehicles need 13.8 minimum (14.2 better) to co-exist with a power source, the supply you have could be used for limited testing as a stand-alone source of power. >2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the >battery through the same female cigaratte power port? If it's an automotive "smart charger", what is it's rated capacity for charging? The BEST way to power your airplane from the AC mains is to acquire some form of smart charger. Exemplar devices can be viewed in this .pdf catalog from Schumacher. http://www.schumacherproducts.com/assets/pdf/sec_catalog.pdf I have a couple of Schumacher products, one of which is good for 25A in the recharge mode. I'll need to do some tests with it but my thinking is that devices like these could be permanently connected across your ship's battery and plugged into the wall. Their microprocessor smarts should react to keep the battery charged irrespective of how much "stuff" you test. This should work even large loads and relatively small smart chargers. Of course the battery will have to make up the difference between what say a 2A charger will put out and a 10A test load. But as soon as you shut things off, the battery charger can be trusted to do its thing and bring the battery back up to 100%. If you'd like to have a power supply that emulates "real" vehicular power, watch for 13.8 volt devices sold to power mobile electronics in the house. I used to sell the Samlex 1223 and a kit to make it emulate an alternator. You could plug it into wall, hook it to the alternator's b-lead and have it respond to the cockpit alternator control switch. Sitting in the left seat, everything on the panel worked as if you had an engine running with a 23A alternator on it. See: http://tinyurl.com/2zdt3u I've always recommended that builders not buy a new battery until the airplane was ready to fly. During construction phases, a lawn tractor battery and a plug-in-the-wall power supply would let you get everything running in the airplane without abusing a brand new flight-battery. A smart charger connected across the battery is a reasonable substitute for a high-quality power supply. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:47 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery Sure if it is on a battery bus. Maybe not a good idea if you have to leave a battery contactor energised. Ken > > 2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the > battery through the same female cigaratte power port? > > Thanks for your help. > > Andrew Butler. > RV71700 - Finishing kit. > Galway, Ireland. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery At 07:30 PM 3/26/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Make sure you have the right polarity. > >If the power supply does not handle short circuits (internal current limit >and shutdown) you might want to fuse it. Good points! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: METCAL tip cartridges At 07:19 PM 3/26/2008 -0500, you wrote: >I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip >cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For >63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering fat wires, >it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. Not sure >about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any advice from well >acquainted users would be welcome. > > We've used only Metcal soldering irons in the shop now for 10 years. I have three in various locations in my facilities and a couple more I loan out to folks who put stuff together for me. To date, I've found no finer tool (that I can afford) for the task. The Metcal catalog for STTC series tips can be downloaded at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Metcal/Metcal_Tips.pdf The heaviest tip for fat-wire work is the #65. I've installed terminals on 4AWG wire with this critter. It takes awhile but it will do it. The commonly found tips in the wild are 000 hundred (600F) or 100 series (700F). For 63/37 solder, it doesn't matter much for most work. I'm interested in getting some really fine 500 series tips for working some really tiny stuff. For general soldering tasks, a #25, 04 or 36 will serve you well. I have a few tips like the #45 for soldering down those parts surface mounted parts fitted with copper "cat-hair" for leads. I presume you're watching the offerings on ebay. Most of my tips came in assortments of used where some were pretty rough but I got them cheap and enough good tips in the lot to make it a good value. But there's some really reasonable offerings for new, single tips. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:46 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: METCAL tip cartridges Tom Barter wrote: > > I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip > cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For > 63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering fat > wires, it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. > Not sure about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any > advice from well acquainted users would be welcome. > > > > Tom Barter > > Kesley, IA > > Avid Magnum > > > I soldered more connections than I want to think about using old Weller soldering stations in another life. I always opted for 700 degree tips. My logic was that with half-way decent technique, the extra temp can actually reduce the chance of damaging components. It drives the joint temperature up quicker, giving less time for the heat to spread out into critical areas you *don't* want heated up. It can also extend the usefulness of an iron that's marginal for the mass of the joint you're trying to solder. The extra temperature increases the effective thermal 'mass' available to heat a big joint. It's a pretty safe bet that others will have different opinions. Charlie ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:01 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors In a message dated 03/26/2008 11:37:31 AM Central Daylight Time, sshook@cox.net writes: For a low voltage, non-critical application like this, would it be acceptable to use a solder bridge for the pins I need to bridge? >>> That's exactly what I did, on a standard project board like you mentioned- bend the prongs over and nail 'em with a touch of solder. Only difference is I used the 3-LED blocks instead of the 5... see: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5135_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5135) I'll also mention that I chose slightly smaller resistors than would normally be called for to brighten them up a bit. Consider that these annunciators are typically illuminated for relatively short periods of time and even if overdriven, they will likely outlast your airplane. I tested this by intentionally overdriving sample blocks well over their limit for about two weeks continuous with no failures. I would also recommend buying several spares of each specific block you use- they are really cheap, and you never know how long an identical item will be available for replacement, if ever needed. Neat stuff... Mark **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:37 PM PST US From: "Vernon Little" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors Scott: surf to aircraftextras.com here: http://aircraftextras.com/VxAviation.htm The IL-4A controller can be used to drive lamps, and support various polarities of input signals. It also allows you to connect to your dimmer and supports push-to-test. Vern -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R. Shook Sent: March 25, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors That is the formula I was looking for. Thank you. The light bars themselves, have 5 LED's so those will go in a series. My last trick will be mounting them and the wiring of said LED's. I am hoping a blank project circuit board will do what I want. The trick with the circuit board will be the spacing requirements (space between light bars). Once that is figured, I can order the face (reverse engraved acrylic). I am also working on a "push-to test" option. As far as the intensity, since these will be behind a reverse engraved acrylic (black behind clear) only the letters themselves will light up. Once I get the mock up completed, the day/night intensity testing will be performed. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Little Sent: Tuesday, 25 March, 2008 15:46 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors Hi Scott: Here's the formula: R = (Vbatt-Vf)/If ohms, where Vf is 1.7 V and If is 20 ma (from datasheet) For the part you chose, R = (14.2-1.7)/0.020 = 625 ohms (use 680 ohm standard value) -- if you power each segment seperately. If you connect all 5 of the LEDs in series, then R = (14.2 - 5*1.7)/0.020 285 ohms (use 330 ohm standard value). Now, here's one issue to deal with: If you are dimming the LEDs, you may want to power each segment separately so that they dim the same as other displays in the cockpit. Only experimentation will give you the answer for this. Finally, you may want to try one light bar first before you commit to using them in a panel. They may have a tendency to wash out in bright sunlight. I used to sell a product line that used similar light bars, and this was an issue unless you carefully shield the display from ambient light (such as locating right underneath the glareshield). I found some 1/8" LEDs that will dazzle your eyes, but they were very difficult to dim due to their intensity. Of course, they were tiny and not easy to label!. Good luck. Vern Little. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R. Shook Sent: March 25, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about Resistors Bob et al, I am putting together an annunciator panel using some Stanley LED Light Bars PN# (404-1148-ND). And if I read correctly on the spec sheet from Digikey, the voltage is 1.7v per LED. This being the case, do you have a 'cheat sheet' showing what resistors I would need to provide the appropriate voltage drop for our 14v OBAM aircraft? Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:25 PM PST US From: "mike humphrey" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 wiring Bob, I figured out what was wrong. I didn't realize that the indicator lights were LEDS and must be wired differently from bulbs. White dot on side of light housing apparently meant 12v source. When I wired it that way(had it reversed) the lights came on. HooRahh!. Thanks for responding, wiring is completed-at last. Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: S700-2-1 wiring > > > At 01:51 AM 3/25/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >>Bob or any other electrical wizard... >> >>Used a S700-2-1 DPDT on-off-on switch to wire my avionics master switch to >>include panel lights for 'main bus' and 'bat bus'. >>wired it like this: >> #3 bat bus & light post #4 light >> post >> >> #2 avionics bus #5 grnd >> >> #1 main bus & light post #6 light >> post >> >>When I toggle 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light >>When I toggle 'off' - everything >>off >>When I toggle 'main bus' - everything off >> >>When I turn master switch on(battery Cessna Split Switch) >> 'bat bus' instruments come on - no light >> 'off' - >> everything off >> 'main bus' instruments on - no light >>What am I doing wrong to get no lights? New switch from B&C. Lights from >>B&C 12V - Lights work-checked separately direct to battery. >>Thanks in advance. >>Mike H 9A/8A > > Mike, can you do a schematic of how your system is wired > and post a scan to the List? I'm not sure my mental image > based on your words is an accurate depiction of the electron > map. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.