Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Using NC Switches ()
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Aux power and the battery (Andrew Butler)
3. 09:13 AM - Re: METCAL tip cartridges (SteinAir, Inc.)
4. 10:20 AM - Re: Aux power and the battery (Ron Shannon)
5. 11:03 AM - Re: METCAL soldering irons (Carlos Trigo)
6. 11:55 AM - Re: METCAL soldering irons (Bob White)
7. 06:02 PM - Any Ray Allen LED Dimming Circuit ideas? (Vince-Himsl)
8. 06:28 PM - Alternator Breaker Pop (DaveG601XL)
9. 06:35 PM - Re: Using NC Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:11 PM - Just for grins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Using NC Switches |
3/27/2008
Hello Again Tom, I am disappointed that nobody on the aeroelectric list
responded
to your request that I forwarded to them for help on using NC switches .
(See copy below)
Let me take a stab at your request and if I provide bum information maybe
one of the experts on the list (even Bob Nuckolls) may step in and provide
correct, or better, information.
There are small electrical relays, commonly called "ice cube relays" because
of their size, that can be used for the purpose that you want -- providing
an electrical signal when all you have available for control is a NC
(normally closed) switch in your aircraft's control grip.
Here is one such relay available from B&C -- I am sure that there are many
others:
http://www.bandc.biz/S704-1_tips.html
It has a 12 volt activated coil and two contacts activated by the slug that
is moved when electricity is applied to the relay coil. One of the contacts
is labeled NC (normally closed) and the other is labeled NO (normally open).
Status A) If there is no electricity flowing through the relay coil the
relay NC contact is connected to the relay common contact and the relay NO
contact is not connected to the relay common contact.
Status B) When there is electricty flowing through the relay coil the relay
NC contact is disconnected from the relay common contact and the relay NO
contact is connected to the relay common contact.
You can wire one side of the NC switch in your control grip with a wire
leading to one of the relay coil contacts. Then you can wire the other relay
coil contact on to aircraft ground. Then you can wire the other side of the
NC switch in the control grip to a live electrical source in the aircraft.
You will have created a continuous electric flow through the coil and the
relay and its contacts will be in status B above.
Now you determine whatever electrical signal is to be sent to the
transponder in order to have it ident and wire a continuous source of that
signal to the transponder through the relay common and the relay NC
contacts. Because you are in status B there is no connection between the
relay common connection and the relay NC contact and the transponder will
not ident.
When you depress the button for the NC switch in your control grip the relay
will go into status A and an ident signal will be sent to the transponder as
long you keep the button for the NC switch on the control grip depressed.
Realize that there are some downsides to this arrangement:
1) There will be a continuous drain on your electrical system to keep the
relay coil activated at all times except for the brief moments when you
depress the NC switch button on the control grip.
2) If you have a wiring disconnect beween the NC switch on the control grip
and the relay the transponder will receive a continuous signal to ident.
There are probably more elegant electrical solutions to solving this problem
and one could eliminate the two downsides listed above by using two relays
to accomplish the ident (or other actions desired), but that is left as an
exercise for the reader.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: I realize that HOTAS (Hands On Trottle And Stick) is appealing to some
homebuilders as a high tech form of snobbery, but it ain't my cup of tea. I
fly in a pretty intense radar coverage environment (the Washington DC ADIZ)
and I bet that in the past several years that it has been in effect that I
haven't been asked to ident more than 4 or 5 times. Not a big deal to just
reach over and push the button on my transponder.
-----------------------------------------
3/12/2008
Hello Tom, You wrote:
1) "For clarification, the NC switch means that I press the button to
actually cut the power. Why would this be used on an old military
helicopter stick? What is the reason for cutting the power on a switch?"
We used to say that having helicopter time in your pilot's logbook was like
having an STD entry (it was called venereal disease back then) in your
health
record.
So I will reluctantly admit that I did fly a helicopter (CH-46) for a year
in Viet Nam. The cyclic grip had a button on it that when pressed would
disconnect the electronic flight stability / attitude positioning system so
that one could manually reposition the stick and the helicopter's attitude
then releasing the button would reengage the electronic attitude positioning
system.
Maybe you have a control stick grip that does something similar.
2) "Again, is there any way I can wire it to work with my remote ident
operation?"
I am not the right guy to answer that question, but I am sure that by using
two of the small "ice cube" type relays that ident operation could be
accomplished. It might be a pretty awkward way of doing it though from an
electrical viewpoint.
I'll forward your question to the Matronic's aeroelectric-list and maybe one
of the electrical experts there (even the great guru Bob Nuckolls) would
take a shot at it.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:25 AM
Subject: Electrical question
On my military surplus control stick I have 4 push buttons, 2 wired normally
opened (NO) and 2 wired normally closed (NC). I really do not have access
to these switches so I have to make due but can I use the NC switches
somehow?
I have plans for comm flip/flop, nav flip/flop, and Ident for my
transponder. I actually have a "hattie" switch in the middle for trim which
is not hooked up. The stick is installed with the ptt and intercom trigger
switches working good. All kinds of switches on this guy. Was not going to
use it but hey, it felt so comfortable, why not.
For clarification, the NC switch means that I press the button to actually
cut the power. Why would this be used on an old military helicopter stick?
What is the reason for cutting the power on a switch? Again, is there any
way I can wire it to work with my remote ident operation?
Tom
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
Thanks very much Bob. Here is the charger I bought:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=12204&doy=27m3
#spec
How does it look?
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aux power and the battery
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:19:39 -0500
At 04:38 PM 3/26/2008 +0000, you wrote:
> All, I have two general queries that I would like some help on.
>
> 1. I have purchased an AC to 12V 5A DC power supply. I would like
to use this as an ad-hoc
> power for install and testing of components through the build. I
was thinking of attaching a
> standard male cigaratte lighter plug to the leads and then use a
female recepticle to receive
> and power the bus. What issues do I need to consider? What will
happen if I do this while the
> battery (an Odyssey PC680) is left attached to the system?
12 volts is a bit too low to be run in parallel with
a battery. Generally speaking, 12v power supplies are
crafted for energizing electronics. Since 12v batteries
in vehicles need 13.8 minimum (14.2 better) to co-exist
with a power source, the supply you have could be used for
limited testing as a stand-alone source of power.
> 2. I have purchased a two stage charger. Is it kohser to charge the
battery through the same
> female cigaratte power port?
If it's an automotive "smart charger", what is it's
rated capacity for charging? The BEST way to power your
airplane from the AC mains is to acquire some form of
smart charger. Exemplar devices can be viewed in this
.pdf catalog from Schumacher.
http://www.schumacherproducts.com/assets/pdf/sec_catalog.pdf
I have a couple of Schumacher products, one of which
is good for 25A in the recharge mode. I'll need to do
some tests with it but my thinking is that devices like
these could be permanently connected across your ship's
battery and plugged into the wall. Their microprocessor
smarts should react to keep the battery charged irrespective
of how much "stuff" you test.
This should work even large loads and relatively
small smart chargers. Of course the battery will have
to make up the difference between what say a 2A
charger will put out and a 10A test load. But as
soon as you shut things off, the battery charger
can be trusted to do its thing and bring the battery
back up to 100%.
If you'd like to have a power supply that emulates
"real" vehicular power, watch for 13.8 volt devices
sold to power mobile electronics in the house. I used
to sell the Samlex 1223 and a kit to make it emulate
an alternator. You could plug it into wall, hook it
to the alternator's b-lead and have it respond to
the cockpit alternator control switch. Sitting in
the left seat, everything on the panel worked as if
you had an engine running with a 23A alternator on
it. See:
http://tinyurl.com/2zdt3u
I've always recommended that builders not buy a new
battery until the airplane was ready to fly. During
construction phases, a lawn tractor battery and a
plug-in-the-wall power supply would let you get everything
running in the airplane without abusing a brand
new flight-battery. A smart charger connected
across the battery is a reasonable substitute for a
high-quality power supply.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Message 3
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| Subject: | METCAL tip cartridges |
Don't have much to add over what Bob said, except I can echo his comments.
We only use Metcal here as well...tried just about every type out there and
Metcal seems to have the best reliability vs functionality. I have over a
dozen of them, and I would agree with him on tips. I too buy them off Ebay
once and awhile because sometimes they are a deal!
Cheers,
Stein
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
>L. Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:51 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: METCAL tip cartridges
>
>
><nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
>At 07:19 PM 3/26/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>I am looking for a recommendation of a couple of Metcal STTC tip
>>cartridges for the MX-RM3E wand. The power supply is a PS2E-01. For
>>63/37 solder, is the 600 degree tip appropriate? For soldering
>fat wires,
>>it seems that the STTC-045 or -145 tip would be appropriate. Not sure
>>about a tip for smaller, general propose soldering. Any advice from well
>>acquainted users would be welcome.
>>
>>
>
> We've used only Metcal soldering irons in the shop now for
> 10 years. I have three in various locations in my facilities
> and a couple more I loan out to folks who put stuff together for
> me. To date, I've found no finer tool (that I can afford) for
> the task.
>
> The Metcal catalog for STTC series tips can be downloaded
> at:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Metcal/Metcal_Tips.pdf
>
> The heaviest tip for fat-wire work is the #65. I've installed
> terminals on 4AWG wire with this critter. It takes awhile but
> it will do it. The commonly found tips in the wild are 000 hundred
> (600F) or 100 series (700F). For 63/37 solder, it doesn't matter
> much for most work. I'm interested in getting some really fine
> 500 series tips for working some really tiny stuff.
>
> For general soldering tasks, a #25, 04 or 36 will serve you well.
> I have a few tips like the #45 for soldering down those parts
> surface mounted parts fitted with copper "cat-hair" for leads.
>
>
> I presume you're watching the offerings on ebay. Most of
> my tips came in assortments of used where some were pretty
> rough but I got them cheap and enough good tips in the lot
> to make it a good value. But there's some really reasonable
> offerings for new, single tips.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aux power and the battery |
FWIW, I use a variable voltage (1-14 VDC) power supply <*
http://tinyurl.com/ypdhy6/>* to test run the electrical equipment. It can be
run at 13.8VDC for routine operational tests, or the voltage can be
progressively lowered to test low voltage monitors, etc.
Ron
Message 5
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| Subject: | METCAL soldering irons |
What will happen if I buy an American (110V-60Hz) soldering iron and connect
it directly (without a transformer) to an European (220V-50Hz) power socket?
Do I get some smoke?
Carlos
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: METCAL soldering irons |
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:53:19 -0000
"Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
> What will happen if I buy an American (110V-60Hz) soldering iron and connect
> it directly (without a transformer) to an European (220V-50Hz) power socket?
> Do I get some smoke?
>
> Carlos
>
Yes! Later if not sooner. I would bet on sooner.
Bob W.
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Any Ray Allen LED Dimming Circuit ideas? |
Hello,
Panel is all wired up, just some fine tuning. One item is that the Ray
Allen
LED trim indicators are too bright when switched to =BD brightness.
I have scanned the net for a way to convert them to a linear dimming
range
but have found nothing. I am at point of installing a switch to turn
them
off except when needed.
I am hoping someone has a more elegant (read cheap) solution. They=92re
already mounted in the panel so chucking them is not an option.
Thanks!
Vince H.
Idaho ' RV-8 VSB (Very Slow Built) Finish
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alternator Breaker Pop |
I am performing my first engine runs with a Jabiru 3300 powered Zenith 601XL.
This is a PM alternator and my wiring is based on the Z16 architecture using the
S704-1 alternator control and crowbar OV protection. So far everything is
working just fine with one exception. Of the 10 or so engine starts I have made,
twice I found the 5A alternator breaker popped. This is the breaker between
the main bus and the master switch. On both occasions, the engine was at idle
and I shut it down then re-started it after a few moments. It was after the
start that I noticed the popped breaker.
I don't know if the breaker popped on shutdown or during the re-start. In either
case I was able to reset the breaker and all appeared to be OK.
Anybody have any ideas on what is going on here? All the volt and amp numbers
I have seen are "in the green." Do shutdown or start-ups cause nuisance pops?
Thanks,
DaveG
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, all major assemblies complete. Have run the engine and am starting final
assembly.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173164#173164
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Using NC Switches |
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gibbons" <TomisFlyingby@comcast.net>
>To: "Pulsar List" <Pulsar-builders@caseyk.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:25 AM
>Subject: Electrical question
>
>
>On my military surplus control stick I have 4 push buttons, 2 wired normally
>opened (NO) and 2 wired normally closed (NC). I really do not have access
>to these switches so I have to make due but can I use the NC switches
>somehow?
>I have plans for comm flip/flop, nav flip/flop, and Ident for my
>transponder. I actually have a "hattie" switch in the middle for trim which
>is not hooked up. The stick is installed with the ptt and intercom trigger
>switches working good. All kinds of switches on this guy. Was not going to
>use it but hey, it felt so comfortable, why not.
>For clarification, the NC switch means that I press the button to actually
>cut the power. Why would this be used on an old military helicopter stick?
>What is the reason for cutting the power on a switch? Again, is there any
>way I can wire it to work with my remote ident operation?
>
>Tom
Sorry I didn't get to this. Pretty busy around here lately
. . . and I've got a new modus-operandi for dealing with
the 'fun' stuff. I completely clear my in-box every couple of
days so that I don't get messages stacked up for weeks that
have little if any prospect of getting my attention. So
posting again is not a bad idea.
Exactly what do you wish to do with the NC buttons. You
mentioned 4 switches total, two of which are normally
closed an you inferred that you might like to use them
in circuits that need NO operation. The elegant solution
is dependent upon what functionality you wish the switch
to perform. Relays can be used but solid state is better.
Let's "talk" about it an see what works best.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Last week when I put the UltraLast cells on the hand-dandy-
battery-runner-downer I had a single loose Maxell AA cell
laying on the bench. I threw it on the tester at 1/6th
the benchmark loads I've used to compare various brands of
batteries. My benchmark testing is done at 300 mA, this
cell was loaded to 50 mA.
The differences in apparent capacity are pretty profound.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/300_vs_50mA_discharge_of_AA_cell.jpg
A reduction of load to 50 mA allowed me to get twice
the stored energy from the cells chemistry.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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