---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/15/08: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:45 AM - Questions on avionics () 2. 06:21 AM - Broken reception on my COMM (Ron Patterson) 3. 06:37 AM - Re: Shunts (Nerds!) () 4. 06:43 AM - Re: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure (F1 Rocket) 5. 06:50 AM - Re: Broken reception on my COMM (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:05 AM - Re: Broken reception on my COMM (MartinErni@aol.com) 7. 08:01 AM - Tail Nav Light Ground (Jim Piavis) 8. 08:48 AM - Bits of aviation history . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:57 AM - Re: Tail Nav Light Ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 09:35 AM - Re: Questions on avionics (BobsV35B@aol.com) 11. 09:35 AM - Re: Tail Nav Light Ground (MauleDriver) 12. 10:20 AM - Re: Questions on avionics (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 10:25 AM - Re: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 14. 10:45 AM - Re: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure (MartinErni@aol.com) 15. 10:58 AM - Re: Questions on avionics (BobsV35B@aol.com) 16. 11:26 AM - Re: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure (Ernest Christley) 17. 11:26 AM - Re: Questions on avionics (Bill Denton) 18. 11:43 AM - Re: Questions on avionics (BobsV35B@aol.com) 19. 12:01 PM - Re: Questions on avionics (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 20. 03:59 PM - Re: Music Inputs (Dustin Paulson) 21. 07:11 PM - Ray Allen Trim servos (Jeffrey W. Skiba) 22. 07:38 PM - Re: Ray Allen Trim servos (Sheldon Olesen) 23. 11:06 PM - Re: Ray Allen Trim servos (mike humphrey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:44 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics 4/15/2008 Hello Bruce, You wrote: "1. What does it mean to "cage" an attitude indicator?" Some attitude indicators have a mechanical means to lock the gyro gimbals so that the gyro gimbals are held rigidly to the instrument case. This can serve two functions: A) It can save wear and tear on the gyro if you are going to do some aerobatic manuevering and don't want the gyro to be moving around extensively as it tries to always show the proper aircraft attitude. B) If the gyro has tumbled and one wants to erect it again to a proper attitude one can put the airplane in a level attitude, cage and then uncage the gyro, and it will then start indicating properly a level attitude from that new starting point. "3. Is purchasing a separate encoder necessary?.....I see some avionics vendors packaging in a separate encoder but don't really understand why." They are doing this because the altitude encoder in almost all of the EFIS being sold to the amateur built community are not TSO'd and therefore do not comply with FAR Sec 91.217 copied here: "91.217: Data correspondence between automatically reported pressure altitude data and the pilot's altitude reference. No person may operate any automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment associated with a radar beacon transponder- (a) When deactivation of that equipment is directed by ATC; (b) Unless, as installed, that equipment was tested and calibrated to transmit altitude data corresponding within 125 feet (on a 95 percent probability basis) of the indicated or calibrated datum of the altimeter normally used to maintain flight altitude, with that altimeter referenced to 29.92 inches of mercury for altitudes from sea level to the maximum operating altitude of the aircraft; or (c) Unless the altimeters and digitizers in that equipment meet the standards of TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively." So you can see that an altitude encoder in use must meet either be TSO'd or comply with subparagraph (b) above. Some people think that the encoder, altimeter, and transponder checks required every two years by FAR Sections 91.411 and 91.413 meet the requirements of subparagraph (b) above, but that is not the present position of FAA HQ. They prescribe a more elaborate, almost impossible to accomplish test. So one solution to the problem created by having an EFIS with a non TSO'd altitude encoder installed in your airplane is to install and use a separate TSO'd altitude encoder. If you want to read more on this subject go to the Matronic aeroelectric list archive and search for 91.217. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: Some EFIS manufacturers will claim that their altitude encoder "meets TSO standards". Note that a claim of "meeting TSO standards" and being actually TSO'd are not the same thing. Ironically some of these non TSO'd altitude encoders are actually superior in performance and technology than the standards required by the TSO. The EFIS manufacturers have chosen not to obtain actual TSO approval for their altitude encoders because of the expense and bureaucratic burden involved. ------------------------------------------------ > Time: 05:57:43 PM PST US > Subject: Avionics-List: Questions on avionics > From: "Rv9APlane" > > > Hi all, > I have a couple of basic questions I don't understand well: > > 1. What does it mean to "cage" an attitude indicator? I've never flown a > plane > that has had this option but I see it on some I'm considering for my > homebuilt. > > 2. I want a light IFR panel and have read some things about Mode S > transponders. > Is there any advantage to having one over a Mode C other than the TIS > capability? > > 3. Is purchasing a separate encoder necessary? I was planning on putting > a Blue > Mountain EFIS One in my plane (please no negative comments as I'm already > committed), > a Garmin 430W with a GI-106A CDI, and a Garmin 327 transponder (pending > the answer to number 2 above) in my plane. I see some avionics vendors > packaging > in a separate encoder but don't really understand why. > > Thanks for your help > > -------- > Bruce Peters > RV9A, Fuselage > Bakersfield, CA ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:15 AM PST US From: Ron Patterson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Broken reception on my COMM My Comm works fine except when I receive a stronger signal from the local tower. then the received transmission is broken and I can only hear about 1/2 the instructions. Any ideas what may be causing this? Ron ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:53 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shunts (Nerds!) Bob, you're great, but lighten up. I am a Nerd. I have a masters in engineering, and last time I mentioned that to you, you attacked me and bashed engineering and engineers from here to Sunday. I have lots of respect for you, but that killed some of it, but I'm a nice forgiving fellow. I have moved on. As far as Nerds, I spend 5-6 years in undergrad and grad school with an HP 41C hanging off my belt. I now dress nicer and work out more, but I am still a Nerd at heart, proudly. As far as an AMP meter being a sensitive VOLT meter, it's true. An AMP meter with out a shunt is a volt meter. Basically we all are talking about D'Arsonval movement, the way analog meters work, where current causes a EMF (electromagnetic field) in a coil in an opposing direction to permanent magnets, causing the needle to move. A torsional (mechanical) spring or coil is calibrated to resist the needle movement, thus reading a voltage (or current). You don't need to be an engineer to understand how a D'Arsonval movement works. I learned this when I was 12 years old, playing with my Radio Shack Science Fair "160 in 1" electronic kit. However, now I can derive Faraday equations (or Lenz) & explain the theoretical physics with advanced math. That makes me a super Nerd, proudly. When I said magic Bob, I was being humorous, jocular, whimsical, an attempt at being witty? Some people don't need (or want) to know the details to wire a plane. I was being causal, which is sometimes more productive when addressing students, who might have anxieties about the topic. It's just my style Bob, which obviously clashes with yours. I never taught "electronics" but I teach a lot of pilots, from Student to Airline pilots, how the electrical system of a Cessna to Boeing 747 works. Electrical systems are fun to me and something I enjoy, not a place for argument or politicking. It's just not a controversial subject to me. I just want to help. I don't need to be perfect. As I have said Bob, you have forgotten about the topic than I'll ever know, but there is the off chance I know something you don't? I might explain something in a way which gets through. That's all. Cheers George the NERD! PS thanks for the link. As a kid I broke many needle movement taking them apart to see how they worked. >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shunts >At 07:07 AM 4/14/2008 -0700, you wrote: >>Oh my my. This is why people make fun of tech geeks and nerds, ha-ha. >Interesting . . . it seems that the same folks would also >make fun of neurosurgeons, master chefs and physicists. >Individuals who poke fun at the assemblage of simple-ideas >into useful inventions are themselves at-risk for not >enjoying the benefits that arise from understanding . . . >a kind of self imposed exile to ignorance that leaves >them dependent upon those who DO understand. >> Yes voltage, current and EMF are all magically intertwined. >Nothing magic about it. But the conditions under >which they interact are not consistent. For example, >just because there is voltage to be measured doesn't >automatically translate to a current flow. Similarly, >there are conditions where huge magnitudes of current >flow with zero impressed voltage. >>Even the magic of the hall effect sender puts out proportional >>volts to current. >Sort of . . . volts is proportional to the intensity >of a magnetic field. The magnetic field can come from >a variety of sources not the least of which is the >field surrounding a current carrying conductor. >>But you all are right, there are coils in those mechanical gauges. >>However a digital meter will read directly off a shunt? Huha? What? >>Doha! ha-ha. >Yes, the digital voltmeter takes advantage of the >voltage drop impressed across a shunt as a result >of current flow. The measurements obtained by this >method are independent of simple-ideas involving >magnetics. >>Bob your "VAM10_Interior_View link" is not working? >Yes, I corrected it in the posting that followed >a few minutes after the first. The working link >is . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Instruments/VAM40_Interior_View.jpg >Bob . . . between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:04 AM PST US From: "F1 Rocket" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure Hi Bob, Thanks for the usual quick reply. Just for my brain... If the alternator had a loose wire, wouldn't the battery still supply the required power? I didn't think I would see the power drop out if I lost the alternator (I was hoping I would get the low voltage alarm so I could start the back up alternator). Jeff -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: April 14, 2008 9:05 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure At 04:20 PM 4/14/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >The diode for the battery master, what are the specifications? > >Twice now while flying my aircraft (over 100 hours with no problems), my >main power has flickered. Off and right back on. I just checked all the >wiring for the master, and the only thing I'm missing is the diode. Ground >was my obvious place to look, all OK, excellent ground for the master >switch. >My next choice is to change out the master solenoid. Any other ideas? >Rocket - dual alternator with single battery. Standard Z-13 wiring. > >Thanks in advance, >Jeff An intermittent battery master would not cause the system to go down completely. In fact, it's possible on some airplanes that an alternator will run reasonably well without a battery . . . complete loss of the contactor may not be immediately noticed. If you're looking for loose wires, everything between the bus and BOTH power sources (alternator and battery) should be examined. Unless you soldered your terminals on a good tug on the fat-wire terminals is in order. I've seen wires installed with inadequate crimp tools pull out of their respective terminals without a whole lot of effort. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:21 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Broken reception on my COMM At 06:17 AM 4/15/2008 -0700, you wrote: >My Comm works fine except when I receive a stronger signal from the local >tower. then the received transmission is broken and I can only hear about >1/2 the instructions. Any ideas what may be causing this? > >Ron I presume that communication with the tower while airborne is not a problem and that you've identified signal strength as the apparent variable. Your receiver may be suffering from an overload condition that's beyond its ability to accommodate. A receiver designer's sorta wet dream is to have the squelch break at around 0.2 microvolts signal and produce a readable if somewhat noisy output at 0.5 microvolts at the antenna. When I was working in the two-way radio business these were the benchmarks for refurbishing and aligning a receiver. A device with this performance level may be hard pressed to also accept and demodulate a signal of hundreds of microvolts. The automatic gain system within the receiver may not have sufficient dynamic range to handle the larger signal in close proximity to a ground based (read high power) transmitter. Do you carry a hand held? Perhaps ground ops is an excellent time to pre-flight this very useful back up. This may not be an automatic solution . . . hand helds tend to be a cut or two below panel mounted or base station receivers and it may be similarly afflicted with the effects of strong signal overload . . . but it's the simplest solution and worth trying. If push comes to shove, you can install the formation flying attenuator described at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Attenuator/Formation_Flying_Attenuator_2.pdf See also pictures at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Attenuator/ Note that this particular design is capable of handling the output of a 2 watt transmitter continuously. It's fine for transmitters of 4-6 watt range but don't carry on long winded conversations. With this switch in the "attenuate" position, both your incoming and outgoing signals are considerably reduced to avoid overloading the receiver in your cockpit and in the other aircraft's cockpit. The ground station will have no problem hearing you either. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:53 AM PST US From: MartinErni@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Broken reception on my COMM Jerry, Read about this problem and Bob's reply. Does it sound familiar? May be this will give us a fix. E In a message dated 4/15/2008 9:52:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nuckolls.bob@cox.net writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:17 AM 4/15/2008 -0700, you wrote: >My Comm works fine except when I receive a stronger signal from the local >tower. then the received transmission is broken and I can only hear about >1/2 the instructions. Any ideas what may be causing this? > >Ron I presume that communication with the tower while airborne is not a problem and that you've identified signal strength as the apparent variable. Your receiver may be suffering from an overload condition that's beyond its ability to accommodate. A receiver designer's sorta wet dream is to have the squelch break at around 0.2 microvolts signal and produce a readable if somewhat noisy output at 0.5 microvolts at the antenna. When I was working in the two-way radio business these were the benchmarks for refurbishing and aligning a receiver. A device with this performance level may be hard pressed to also accept and demodulate a signal of hundreds of microvolts. The automatic gain system within the receiver may not have sufficient dynamic range to handle the larger signal in close proximity to a ground based (read high power) transmitter. Do you carry a hand held? Perhaps ground ops is an excellent time to pre-flight this very useful back up. This may not be an automatic solution . . . hand helds tend to be a cut or two below panel mounted or base station receivers and it may be similarly afflicted with the effects of strong signal overload . . . but it's the simplest solution and worth trying. If push comes to shove, you can install the formation flying attenuator described at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Attenuator/Formation_Flying_Attenuator_2. pdf See also pictures at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Attenuator/ Note that this particular design is capable of handling the output of a 2 watt transmitter continuously. It's fine for transmitters of 4-6 watt range but don't carry on long winded conversations. With this switch in the "attenuate" position, both your incoming and outgoing signals are considerably reduced to avoid overloading the receiver in your cockpit and in the other aircraft's cockpit. The ground station will have no problem hearing you either. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:07 AM PST US From: Jim Piavis Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tail Nav Light Ground I'm wiring up the tail nav/ strobe light in the lower fiberglass rudder fai ring for an RV-7. Is there any reason I can't tie the nav light ground to t he strobe ground? For the tail light, this seems to be the easiest option b ut wasn't sure about the voltage running through the strobe. It's either th at or run a wire into the aft fuselage to a local ground. Jim ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:37 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bits of aviation history . . . See: http://tinyurl.com/39cbwo http://www.rbogash.com/B314.html Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tail Nav Light Ground At 07:55 AM 4/15/2008 -0700, you wrote: >I m wiring up the tail nav/ strobe light in the lower fiberglass rudder >fairing for an RV-7. Is there any reason I can t tie the nav light ground >to the strobe ground? For the tail light, this seems to be the easiest >option but wasn t sure about the voltage running through the strobe. It s >either that or run a wire into the aft fuselage to a local ground. You don't want to cause an unbalance of currents to flow inside the twisted trio of strobe wires. The physics that make this wire an effective constraint on coupling of noise depends on integrity of combination of balanced currents and shielding. The separate ground wire is called for. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:19 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Good Morning OC, Nice answer to the question asked, but may a I add a bit? If you intend to do aerobatics and intend to cage the gyros to avoid wear, it is best to shut of the air first so that the gyro is not spinning while it is locked up. While being caged will keep it from banging the stops, the bearings will be exposed to abnormal wear by the gyro being restrained. If the air is turned of after the gyro is already spun up, a good gyro will take about thirty minutes to get stopped. Best to shut off the air before the engine is started. There is no real good solution, only methods of mitigation. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/15/2008 7:47:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: Hello Bruce, You wrote: "1. What does it mean to "cage" an attitude indicator?" Some attitude indicators have a mechanical means to lock the gyro gimbals so that the gyro gimbals are held rigidly to the instrument case. This can serve two functions: A) It can save wear and tear on the gyro if you are going to do some aerobatic maneuvering and don't want the gyro to be moving around extensively as it tries to always show the proper aircraft attitude. B) If the gyro has tumbled and one wants to erect it again to a proper attitude one can put the airplane in a level attitude, cage and then uncage the gyro, and it will then start indicating properly a level attitude from that new starting point. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:20 AM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tail Nav Light Ground I just faced the same issue. I chose to run a separate ground from the Adel clamp holding the rudder cable. It also took a bit more effort than expected to get a single lug #4 platenut in there to hold the Whelan. But it worked well. Jim Piavis wrote: > > I'm wiring up the tail nav/ strobe light in the lower fiberglass > rudder fairing for an RV-7. Is there any reason I can't tie the nav > light ground to the strobe ground? For the tail light, this seems to > be the easiest option but wasn't sure about the voltage running > through the strobe. It's either that or run a wire into the aft > fuselage to a local ground. > > > > Jim > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:27 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Really the best way to do aerobatics is to fit a glass EFIS...I regularly ( like every flight) wring out my RV and the Dynon scratches its head sometim es but returns to normal like clockwork. Same for the TT autopilot. I noticed that Kathy Hirtz does her airshow routines in her Wolf Pitts and has a Dynon D180 installed..And there is not a more radical aerobatic machi ne out there. Its about time the mechanical gyros went the way of the Dodo...As long as y our airplane is experimental of course. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:29 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Good Morning OC, Nice answer to the question asked, but may a I add a bit? If you intend to do aerobatics and intend to cage the gyros to avoid wear, it is best to shut of the air first so that the gyro is not spinning while it is locked up. While being caged will keep it from banging the stops, the bearings will be exposed to abnormal wear by the gyro being restrained. I f the air is turned of after the gyro is already spun up, a good gyro will take about thirty minutes to get stopped. Best to shut off the air before t he engine is started. There is no real good solution, only methods of mitigation. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/15/2008 7:47:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bakerocb@c ox.net writes: Hello Bruce, You wrote: "1. What does it mean to "cage" an attitude indicator?" Some attitude indicators have a mechanical means to lock the gyro gimbals s o that the gyro gimbals are held rigidly to the instrument case. This can serve two functions: A) It can save wear and tear on the gyro if you are going to do some aerobatic maneuvering and don't want the gyro to be moving around extensively as it tries to always show the proper aircraft attitude. B) If the gyro has tumbled and one wants to erect it again to a proper attitude one can put the airplane in a level attitude, cage and then uncage the gyro, and it will then start indicating properly a level attitude from that new starting point. ________________________________ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:48 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure Something that was a real "Doh!" moment was that I realised I had painted the alternator bracket...I.e where the ground path was for the alternator...The resistance of the paint caused a whole bunch of noise that would do little annoyances like shut the IFR GPS off while on an instrument approach...of course it would take 10 seconds or so to reset..and then do it again..Not very pleasant! Just a thought...I.e the connection of the alternator to the engine block is a vital connection. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of F1 Rocket Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:21 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure --> The diode for the battery master, what are the specifications? Twice now while flying my aircraft (over 100 hours with no problems), my main power has flickered. Off and right back on. I just checked all the wiring for the master, and the only thing I'm missing is the diode. Ground was my obvious place to look, all OK, excellent ground for the master switch. My next choice is to change out the master solenoid. Any other ideas? Rocket - dual alternator with single battery. Standard Z-13 wiring. Thanks in advance, Jeff ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:33 AM PST US From: MartinErni@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure Anodized alternator brackets can cause the same problems. Guess how I know. a message dated 4/15/2008 1:27:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, frank.hinde@hp.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Something that was a real "Doh!" moment was that I realised I had painted the alternator bracket...I.e where the ground path was for the alternator...The resistance of the paint caused a whole bunch of noise that would do little annoyances like shut the IFR GPS off while on an instrument approach...of course it would take 10 seconds or so to reset..and then do it again..Not very pleasant! Just a thought...I.e the connection of the alternator to the engine block is a vital connection. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of F1 Rocket Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:21 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure --> The diode for the battery master, what are the specifications? Twice now while flying my aircraft (over 100 hours with no problems), my main power has flickered. Off and right back on. I just checked all the wiring for the master, and the only thing I'm missing is the diode. Ground was my obvious place to look, all OK, excellent ground for the master switch. My next choice is to change out the master solenoid. Any other ideas? Rocket - dual alternator with single battery. Standard Z-13 wiring. Thanks in advance, Jeff **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:11 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Good Afternoon Frank, Absolutely and totally agree! The problem is that the FAA puts so many hurdles in the way that by the time the stuff gets approved, the cost is way above what normal folks can afford. Right now, only home builders have any chance of going with modern equipment. I do realize that most FAA folks are just as enthusiastic aviators as are the rest of us, but they are hamstrung with rules that are forced on them by the Bureaucracy and that Bureaucracy is driven by the Congress critters who do nothing for us at all. All they care about is having someone to blame when anything goes wrong. I recently had the pleasure of flying some twenty-four hours in a Legend Cub that was equipped with the Dynon 180. I certainly did not learn how to use all of it's many capabilities, but what I saw, was great. I have been following Jim Younkin's very rapid development of flight instruments and autopilots. I love his attitude toward the FAA, but it doesn't help we who fly primarily certified aircraft. Unless someone who is willing to argue with the FAA manages to steal some of his ideas and get the FAA approval for us to use that much better stuff, we are stuck with 1920s technology. Had the FAA been in charge in 1920 we would not yet have mechanical gyros, let alone anything better! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:22:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, frank.hinde@hp.com writes: Really the best way to do aerobatics is to fit a glass EFIS...I regularly (like every flight) wring out my RV and the Dynon scratches its head sometimes but returns to normal like clockwork. Same for the TT autopilot. I noticed that Kathy Hirtz does her airshow routines in her Wolf Pitts and has a Dynon D180 installed..And there is not a more radical aerobatic machine out there. Its about time the mechanical gyros went the way of the Dodo...As long as your airplane is experimental of course. Frank **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:49 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2 electrical questions - diode and intermittent failure MartinErni@aol.com wrote: > Anodized alternator brackets can cause the same problems. Guess how I know. > > Yeah, but in that case it looks DAMN good while it's not working 8*). ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:50 AM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Bob. Aspen Avionics http://www.aspenavionics.com/ recently received the TSO and the AML STC for their glass PFD. $6,000 + install for a VFR unit; $10,000 + install for an IFR unit. Not really cheap, but not as pricey as Garmin or Avidyne. So you guys flying TC aircraft can get some of the toys without totally busting the bank. And no more spinning gyros! Thanks! Bill Denton bdenton@bdenton.com From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Good Afternoon Frank, Absolutely and totally agree! The problem is that the FAA puts so many hurdles in the way that by the time the stuff gets approved, the cost is way above what normal folks can afford. Right now, only home builders have any chance of going with modern equipment. I do realize that most FAA folks are just as enthusiastic aviators as are the rest of us, but they are hamstrung with rules that are forced on them by the Bureaucracy and that Bureaucracy is driven by the Congress critters who do nothing for us at all. All they care about is having someone to blame when anything goes wrong. I recently had the pleasure of flying some twenty-four hours in a Legend Cub that was equipped with the Dynon 180. I certainly did not learn how to use all of it's many capabilities, but what I saw, was great. I have been following Jim Younkin's very rapid development of flight instruments and autopilots. I love his attitude toward the FAA, but it doesn't help we who fly primarily certified aircraft. Unless someone who is willing to argue with the FAA manages to steal some of his ideas and get the FAA approval for us to use that much better stuff, we are stuck with 1920s technology. Had the FAA been in charge in 1920 we would not yet have mechanical gyros, let alone anything better! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:22:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, frank.hinde@hp.com writes: Really the best way to do aerobatics is to fit a glass EFIS...I regularly (like every flight) wring out my RV and the Dynon scratches its head sometimes but returns to normal like clockwork. Same for the TT autopilot. I noticed that Kathy Hirtz does her airshow routines in her Wolf Pitts and has a Dynon D180 installed..And there is not a more radical aerobatic machine out there. Its about time the mechanical gyros went the way of the Dodo...As long as your airplane is experimental of course. Frank _____ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:46 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Good Afternoon Bill, It's getting there! I do know that they are now saying the entire year's production is already spoken for. Last person I spoke to said they figure the installation they ordered would be at least twenty grand installed. Better than a Garmin, but still a lot of money. If it was an automotive device, produced in China, and used on a Toyo ta it would be fifty bucks! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/15/2008 1:29:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bdenton@bdenton.com writes: Bob Aspen Avionics http://www.aspenavionics.com/ recently received the TSO and the AML STC for their glass PFD. $6,000 + install for a VFR unit; $10,000 + install for an IFR unit. Not really cheap, but not as pricey as Garmin or Avidyne. So you guys flying TC aircraft can get some of the toys without totally busting the bank. And no more spinning gyros! Thanks! Bill Denton bdenton@bdenton.com **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:26 PM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Yes I feel for the certified guys...The last IFR proficiency ride i took my instrument student friend and he kept babbling something about "what about the precession"....I said "We're not in a precession, we're flying by ours elves!" Nice to hear from you again Bob....And you were right, learning IFR in a fa st airplane is not hard at all...learning in one that happens to be aerobat ic its a bit of a handful though..:) Frank RV7a ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions on avionics Good Afternoon Frank, Absolutely and totally agree! The problem is that the FAA puts so many hurdles in the way that by the tim e the stuff gets approved, the cost is way above what normal folks can affo rd. Right now, only home builders have any chance of going with modern equipmen t. I do realize that most FAA folks are just as enthusiastic aviators as are t he rest of us, but they are hamstrung with rules that are forced on them by the Bureaucracy and that Bureaucracy is driven by the Congress critters w ho do nothing for us at all. All they care about is having someone to blame when anything goes wrong. I recently had the pleasure of flying some twenty-four hours in a Legend Cu b that was equipped with the Dynon 180. I certainly did not learn how to us e all of it's many capabilities, but what I saw, was great. I have been following Jim Younkin's very rapid development of flight instru ments and autopilots. I love his attitude toward the FAA, but it doesn't he lp we who fly primarily certified aircraft. Unless someone who is willing to argue with the FAA manages to steal some o f his ideas and get the FAA approval for us to use that much better stuff, we are stuck with 1920s technology. Had the FAA been in charge in 1920 we would not yet have mechanical gyros, let alone anything better! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator 628 West 86th Street Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:22:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, frank.hin de@hp.com writes: Really the best way to do aerobatics is to fit a glass EFIS...I regularly ( like every flight) wring out my RV and the Dynon scratches its head sometim es but returns to normal like clockwork. Same for the TT autopilot. I noticed that Kathy Hirtz does her airshow routines in her Wolf Pitts and has a Dynon D180 installed..And there is not a more radical aerobatic machi ne out there. Its about time the mechanical gyros went the way of the Dodo...As long as y our airplane is experimental of course. Frank ________________________________ It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:26 PM PST US From: "Dustin Paulson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Music Inputs Thanks Jim. I guess it's certainly worth a try, and see if they will pass the pull test, but I sure wouldn't want to be in hard IFR, and have my MP3 player all of a sudden be unhearable because of a poor crimp. ~( ;- ) Dustin, I used a D sub crimper similar to the one Stein sells on Hi Density D sub pins and it worked fine. The hi density pins are .050 in diameter (where the crimp takes place) while the standard pins are .075. But my crimper contracts to about .025 diameter. So I tried a couple and found the wire is nicely crimped. You do have to be careful to position the pin correctly in the crimper as they are different lengths. But to do a few crimps, a standard d sub crimper seems to work OK. Jim Butcher Europa N241BW ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:30 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Trim servos ALL, I am looking for a simple way to reduce the speed of my Ray Allen Trim servos. What I need to know is the best way to Slow the speed of the servos down. I have seen the ray Allen servo speed controller however I would need 2 of them at $45 each seems a bit pricey, and I was hoping the group has a cost effective solution. Could one just use a resistor ? I am guessing the Ray Allen controller is a PWM maybe some one knows of a cheaper version ? Any direction would be appreciated Jeff. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:27 PM PST US From: Sheldon Olesen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Trim servos On Apr 15, 2008, at 9:07 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote: > ALL, > > I am looking for a simple way to reduce the speed of my Ray Allen > Trim servos. > What I need to know is the best way to Slow the speed of the servos > down. I have seen the ray Allen servo speed controller however I > would need 2 of them at $45 each seems a bit pricey, and I was > hoping the group has a cost effective solution. > > Could one just use a resistor ? I am guessing the Ray Allen > controller is a PWM maybe some one knows of a cheaper version ? > > Any direction would be appreciated > Jeff. > > Jeff, I have 2 speed controllers and 2 relays that I removed to install a Safety trim system. They were installed but the plane has never flown. Make me an offer I can't refuse. Sheldon Olesen ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:18 PM PST US From: "mike humphrey" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Trim servos Jeff, Simple installation. Very effective, and can be adjusted via a pot to get it exactly how you want the speed to be. I've got two, brand new in the box, never used, that I will sell you. I have one mounted on the elevator trim, bought two more it seems while in a 'buying frenzy'. I'll sell both for $60 including shipping to lower 48. Email me direct if interested: mike109g6@insideconnect.net Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey W. Skiba To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Trim servos ALL, I am looking for a simple way to reduce the speed of my Ray Allen Trim servos. What I need to know is the best way to Slow the speed of the servos down. I have seen the ray Allen servo speed controller however I would need 2 of them at $45 each seems a bit pricey, and I was hoping the group has a cost effective solution. Could one just use a resistor ? I am guessing the Ray Allen controller is a PWM maybe some one knows of a cheaper version ? Any direction would be appreciated Jeff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.