Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:55 PM - Generally accepted wiring practices ()
2. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 12:55 PM - z13/8 question (Gerard Ricciotti)
4. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire (Ron Shannon)
5. 12:56 PM - Hand-held antenna adapter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: Epoxy to Aluminum (Ron Shannon)
7. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
8. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:56 PM - Re: z13/8 question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:02 PM - Re: Generally accepted wiring practices (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:13 PM - Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire (n277dl)
12. 08:26 PM - Re: Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire (Neal George)
13. 09:11 PM - Antenna choice (Dave Leikam)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Generally accepted wiring practices |
Question: When attaching fast-on connectors to wire, is it generally
good to heat shrink every connector? Is there a standard for when I
should use heat-shrink and when I can ignore it? I understand the value
of labeling, but that is irrelevant for this question.
In practice I have also used liquid electrical tape to backfill
open connectors. It appears that has the same effect of keeping dirt
out, but may not have the tensile strength required if the squirrels get
busy.
Thanks,
Glenn
Do Not Archive
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire |
At 05:30 PM 4/28/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>grjtucson wrote:
> >
> > nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net wrote:
> > > At 12:12 PM 4/27/2008 -0700, you wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah . . . I stuck my foot in it. I was tangled up
> > > in some numbers recalled from a different case
> > > and blew it.
> > >
> > >
> > > As another Lister pointed out, brass has a higher
> > > resistance than copper. A quick measurement of
> > > some stuff in my metals bin from K&S Engineering
> > > shows their brass alloy to be about 4x the
> > > resistance of equivalent copper sheet. So, the
> > > same stud-to-stud strap of .062 x .75 brass strip
> > > would drop about 45 millivolts . . . on the same
> > > order as a shunt . . . but unnecessarily high.
> > >
> > > When I get the drive stand running, I'll be
> > > strapping some high current contactors in the same
> > > manner as those on your airplanes and I'll get some
> > > actual drops and temperature rises for the various
> > > materials available to us. In the mean time,
> > > the K&S metals 16142 0.060 copper sheet is the
> > > better material from which to fabricate stud
> > > jumpers than the brass strip cited earlier.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > Ouch.
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > Per your earlier recommendation to me, I standardized on 4 awg fat
> wires for my 60amp RV-7 and I went with .75 x .062 brass for the strap
> between master and starter contactor and between starter contactor and
> anl. You had actually suggested .032 but that seemed thin to me,
> particularly since Van's calls out .125 copper.
> >
> > Now you're suggesting copper for these and I'm wondering if I should
> swap out my brass? It's not a huge amount of work but if the .062 brass
> will still work fine, I'm likely to leave it.
> >
> > Also, is .032 brass still OK for the ground buses? I haven't installed
> those yet though the tabs are soldered on.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > George Jenson
> > RV-7
> > Tucson, AZ
>
>
>George,
> I was doing the annual on my 7A this past weekend. It'd began to get
> difficult to start the prop spinning when cold. The battery was only a
> couple years old but I decided to replace it. Also, just for good
> measure I replaced the original starter contactor and battery contactor
> with new ones from B&C, original ones from Vans. Rumor (un-proven by me)
> that the B&C were better quality.
Last time I had any specific information on Van's contactors
he was selling Cole-Hersey battery contactors. I think his
starter contactors were commercial-off-the-shelf devices too.
These are in the same league as the devices offered by B&C.
I'd be interested in hearing from any folks who are having
difficulties with devices from either source.
>Anyway, had to replace the copper bus bars as the original doesn't work
>anymore. Couldn't find copper anywhere local so came back, found the post
>in early April where brass was recommended instead of copper.... purchased
>.063 x .5, installed on the 7A and it all worked fine. Only a couple
>starts but didn't have any problems so the brass will work. Guess time
>will tell how well.
Hmmm . . . . 0.5" wide? After you drill a 5/16" hole in
this for attachment to contactor, you're short on edge
margin. 0.75" wide is recommended both for mechanical
and electrical considerations.
I'll be looking into voltage drop and temperature
rise issues for these short stud-to-stud jumpers
later this year.
Bob . . .
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Greetings
Refering to the Fig Z-13/8 and the wiring of the Endurance bus the
connection from the Main bus is not protected with a fuse or breaker
yet the feed from the battery bus is protected with a fuse at the bus
block and a fuse link between the e-bus alternate feed switch and the
endurance bus, what is the concept behind this?
Also on the same figure Z-13/8 the connection between the DC Power
Master Switch and the Main Power Distribution Bus has both a breaker
and a fuse link, what is concept behind this?
On the same diagram the wire gage for the connection between the Main
Power Distribution Bus and the Endurance Bus has an * denoting "6
inches or less" . In my installation the wire run will be longer than
six inches. Do I need to use a larger gage wire?
Thanks in advance Jerry
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire |
One reason I decided to use cable instead of bar is that when combined with
terminal boots, the cable is insulated against a variety of accidental
shorts (falling wires, tools, moisture, whatever) whether in operation or
maintenance.
Is there a good way to insulate bars?
Ron
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Hand-held antenna adapter |
At 08:14 AM 4/29/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Hank Eilts (eilts@ti.com) on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 at 08:14:03
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Tuesday, April 29, 2008
>
>Comments/Questions: Hello Bob,
>
>I believe that I saw an article on your website describing how to wire a
>jack into the panel for connecting a handheld comm to the external
>aircraft antenna. I believe you advocated a 1/4 phone jack with a
>switching function on the jack for the panel. However, now I cannot find
>the article and I wonder if you may have pulled the article due to
>operational problems with the technique.
Yes, the quality of close-circuit phone jacks available to
the task was pretty poor. Failure of the jack's switch
would disable the panel-mounted radio. Here's a photo
of the DIY project:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/CommTap-Jack.jpg
ICOM offers a hand-held adapter with the same technology
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_Hand_Held_Adapter_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_Hand_Held_Adapter_2.jpg
>I work in electronics and can wire up the panel mod without problems, but
>I'm wondering if normal panel vibration can make/break the switch when a
>handheld in not installed, causing problems for the main radio.
Given the lead lengths for the commercial off the shelf
device from ICOM, you probably couldn't do much worse!
How about CK7000 series switch with a bnc chassis
mount connector mounted right next to each other.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/7301P3YZQE.jpg
Bring ship's antenna and transmitter coaxes up to
the back and assemble with shortest practical leads
to toggle antenna between hand-held and panel-mounted
transceivers.
In fact, I've been considering a product consisting
of a 2 pole switch that terminates the panel-mounted
radio into a dummy load when the hand-held is being
serviced by the antenna.
However you decide to go, I don't recommend the 1/8"
closed circuit jack.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one wishes to be "world class" at )
( anything, what ever you do must be )
( exercised EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy to Aluminum |
> ... Perhaps the Click-Bond products are most ideal for composite
> airplanes and regular nutplates are better for aluminum airplanes.
>
FWIW, all my 200+ Click Bond fasteners are on aluminum. Surface prep is
essential, but easy. Just a scuff with the provided Scotch Brite pad, a
swipe with the provided solvent/cleaner, thoroughly mix the two part epoxy
from the pre-measured packet... and on they go. Wait 24 hrs. to cure and
bolts torque down fine.
Ron
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire |
In a message dated 04/29/2008 2:58:38 PM Central Daylight Time,
rshannon@CRUZCOM.COM writes:
Is there a good way to insulate bars?
Up north I hear R-22 of the pink stuff is popular. Down here in Tennessee,
the booze gen'rally warms us up right dandy in the winter, and in the summer,
the screen door keeps out the skeeters purty good, a least 'til Bubba tossed
Big John thru it last August after arguin' about a pickup truck. John warn't
hurt none and got the last laugh after he wrote "CHEVY RULES" with used beer in
front of Bubba's F150...
8-)
With apologies to the A-list, Mark
DO NOT ARCHIVE
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire |
At 10:31 AM 4/29/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>One reason I decided to use cable instead of bar is that when combined
>with terminal boots, the cable is insulated against a variety of
>accidental shorts (falling wires, tools, moisture, whatever) whether in
>operation or maintenance.
>
>Is there a good way to insulate bars?
Not that I know of. There are 'partial' fixes
for being bare . . . but most folks don't worry
about it. See pictures at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Contactor_Interconnect/
Note these two in particular . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Contactor_Interconnect/Contactor_Strap_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Contactor_Interconnect/Contactor_Strap_4.jpg
which I took on the production line. There's
lots of electrically hot stuff hanging out in
the breeze . . . but each risk has been evaluated
against probability of problems and deemed
good to go.
Bob . . .
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: z13/8 question |
At 09:54 AM 4/29/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Greetings
> Refering to the Fig Z-13/8 and the wiring of the Endurance bus the
>connection from the Main bus is not protected with a fuse or breaker
>yet the feed from the battery bus is protected with a fuse at the bus
>block and a fuse link between the e-bus alternate feed switch and the
>endurance bus, what is the concept behind this?
Note the (*) symbol on short feeders which if kept
down to 6" or so, are not generally considered worthy
of protection. If the main and e-bus fuse blocks are
co-located with the normal feedpath diode, then protection
can be dispensed with.
>Also on the same figure Z-13/8 the connection between the DC Power
>Master Switch and the Main Power Distribution Bus has both a breaker
>and a fuse link, what is concept behind this?
The wire from the bus to the alternator field breaker is an
EXTENSION of the bus . . . which is also a long wire and
generally worthy of some protection. However, if you use
crowbar ov protection, the fusing-constant for the upstream
protection needs to be much longer than the fusing constant
for the crow-bar breaker. Hence, the fusible link which will
carry enough current to crow-bar the breaker without
opening itself.
>On the same diagram the wire gage for the connection between the Main
>Power Distribution Bus and the Endurance Bus has an * denoting "6
>inches or less" . In my installation the wire run will be longer than
>six inches. Do I need to use a larger gage wire?
The "six-inch-rule" is a wiring practice adopted by the
certificated aircraft world for the purpose of deciding
whether or not fault protection is needed. It's up to
you if you want to adopt a "12-inch-rule" . . . or whatever.
It's not a wire size issue.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Generally accepted wiring practices |
At 09:37 AM 4/29/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Question: When attaching fast-on connectors to wire, is it generally
>good to heat shrink every connector?
I don't think so. Closing things up without making
it a hermetic seal only encourages entrapment of moisture.
>Is there a standard for when I
>should use heat-shrink and when I can ignore it? I understand the value
>of labeling, but that is irrelevant for this question.
None I've seen. I leave them hanging out in the breeze
to get dry fast if ever subjected to drip, splash or
condensation. I've never seen anyone cover them in
a production environment either but it's a low-risk
concern . . . so if you like a more "finished" look,
it will probably be just fine.
> In practice I have also used liquid electrical tape to backfill
>open connectors. It appears that has the same effect of keeping dirt
>out, but may not have the tensile strength required if the squirrels get
>busy.
??? If you have PIDG style terminals attached with the appropriate
tool, no further processing is needed.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire |
nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net wrote:
> At 05:30 PM 4/28/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > George,
> >
> > I was doing the annual on my 7A this past weekend. It'd began to get
> > difficult to start the prop spinning when cold. The battery was only a couple
years old but I decided to replace it. Also, just for good measure I replaced
the original starter contactor and battery contactor with new ones from
B&C, original ones from Vans. Rumor (un-proven by
> > me) that the B&C were better quality.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Last time I had any specific information on Van's contactors he was selling
Cole-Hersey battery contactors. I think his starter contactors were commercial-off-the-shelf
devices too. These are in the same league as the devices offered
by B&C. I'd be interested in hearing from any folks who are having
difficulties with devices from either source.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Anyway, had to replace the copper bus bars as the original doesn't work anymore.
Couldn't find copper anywhere local so came back, found the post in early
April where brass was recommended instead of copper....
> > purchased .063 x .5, installed on the 7A and it all worked fine. Only a couple
starts but didn't have any problems so the brass will work. Guess time will
tell how well.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Hmmm . . . . 0.5" wide? After you drill a 5/16" hole in this for attachment
to contactor, you're short on edge margin. 0.75" wide is recommended both
for mechanical and electrical considerations.
>
>
>
> I'll be looking into voltage drop and temperature rise issues for these short
stud-to-stud jumpers later this year.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, thanks for the correction with 3/4 inch wide. I picked up the .5
from the original design using copper from Vans and your response on
4/7/08 to George. I'll switch it out to 3/4 copper at some point.
>
>
>
>
> nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net wrote:
> At 01:36 PM 4/7/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
> Quote:
>
>
> Summary - 5 questions:
>
> 1. 2AWG welding cable OK for engine to firewall ground in lieu of braid?
>
> 2. 2AWG welding cable OK for 60amp PP alternator b-lead or should I downsize?
>
> Go 4AWG throughout . . .
> Quote:
>
> 3. .125 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to contactor run (Van's specs same size
but Copper)?
>
> 4. .063 x .5 brass bar OK for contactor to current limiter (no starter
>
> current)?
>
> 5. .050 x .75 x 5 copper bars/straps on either side of firewall, each
>
> soldered with brass tabs, with 3/16 brass bolts as ground setup OK?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Go .032 brass for all and at LEAST 5/16 or better
>
> yet 3/8" brass bolts for fat-wire terminals. Torque
>
> to 80+ percent of maximum for the materials and thread
>
> sizes. Check AC43.13 for values.
>
>
>
>
>
> Fantastic Bob, thanks for the help and for the work you continue to do.
> Simply extraordinary.
>
> George
>
>
Also, let me be clear that I did not test the contactors but instead
took the shotgun approach. The battery contactor is in fact a
Cole-Hersey so do not want to mis-represent it's quality.
I replaced the starter contactor as well for good measure :)
Got to quit reading so much.
Doug
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180182#180182
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/strtcntr_159.jpg
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Copper Bar vs "FAT" wire |
Mark, you ain't right...
neal
Is there a good way to insulate bars?
Up north I hear R-22 of the pink stuff is popular. Down here in Tennessee,
the booze gen'rally warms us up right dandy in the winter, and in the
summer, the screen door keeps out the skeeters purty good, a least 'til
Bubba tossed Big John thru it last August after arguin' about a pickup
truck. John warn't hurt none and got the last laugh after he wrote "CHEVY
RULES" with used beer in front of Bubba's F150...
8-)
With apologies to the A-list, Mark
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Is it necessary to purchase expensive comant antenna's or are less
expensive bent whip belly mounts as good?
Dave Leikam
RV-10
Ready to install some antennas
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|