AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/03/08


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:46 AM - Re: Voltmeter/Ammeter Recommendations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 06:56 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 07:04 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
     4. 08:21 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Bill Schlatterer)
     5. 09:01 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Dennis Jones)
     6. 09:12 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Dennis Jones)
     7. 09:28 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 10:07 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (Kevin Horton)
     9. 01:13 PM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Bill Schlatterer)
    10. 01:47 PM - 90 degree disconnect - what kind of crimp tool? (mikef)
    11. 01:52 PM - KY-97 Power Pins (Matt Prather)
    12. 10:15 PM - Re: KY-97 Power Pins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:46:00 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Voltmeter/Ammeter Recommendations
    At 12:19 AM 5/2/2008 +0000, you wrote: > >Bob: I'd like some clarification on two apparent inconsistencies. > >1. On page 4-9, you recommend a battery ammeter, but it appears that in >the Z drawings, you show the ammeter (loadmeter) wired to show alternator >output instead. An inconsistency or am I just ignorant. >2. On page 4-8 (figure 4-5), you show a voltmeter placed on the incoming >and ground sides of the voltage regulator, and provide text on the >implications of various readings. However, Z-23 (note 8) seems to show a >voltmeter recommendation on the alternator field instead (again with good >troubleshooting notes). > >I'm looking for installation recommendations for one voltmeter and one >ammeter for a Z-11 approach (perhaps w/ 2 Pmags). Understand first that the book speaks to lots of options . . . not the least of which are a variety of architectures and choices for instrumentation. The options are so diverse that one should not take the whole as any sort of collective recommendation. Voltmeters and ammeters are not especially useful as aids to operating an airplane. 99.5% of the time they say the same thing every time you look at one. In other words, they only confirm a reading that's easily predictable. This leaves them with a duty of being a warning device . . . also not especially useful. Because they say the same thing most of the time, we tend to miss them in the scan of important things . . . or even ignore or dismiss the odd readings when they do occur. The PRIMARY electrical system monitor for use in flight is the active notification of low voltage. When the light tells you the alternator is not supporting ship's, there's nothing that a voltmeter or ammeter adds to knowledge that helps you get down without breaking a sweat. When the light comes on, you will, of course, have a plan-B in place that's accomplished in a timely manner and with minimum pilot workload. Once on the ground and with tools in hand, voltmeters and ammeters ARE useful for trouble shooting. Problem is, that your panel mounted ammeters and voltmeters tend to sample one place in the system. An objective trouble shooting activity depends on a host of measurements all over the system. Bottom line is, if you'd like to have some panel decoration that goes beyond the "genius-light", the options are diverse and no particular combination of choices is going to make your airplane any easier, more difficult or more costly to operate. If it were my airplane, I'd have a low voltage warning light on the main bus and any aux battery bus. I'd have a loadmeter on each engine driven power source. I'd instrument the voltage on the e-bus. Is that a recommendation? You may view it as such if you wish. In reality, it's a personal recipe for success consistent with my design goals and understanding of the system. You may have different goals. Know that risks associated with doing something different (within a boundaries of a well considered Plan-A/Plan-B modus operandi) are zero. Bob . . .


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:56:51 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: switch for smoke pump
    At 10:46 PM 5/2/2008 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows: >pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn >the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would >one wire it? Here's one way . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Smoke_Oil_Pump_1.pdf B&C offers a suitable switch. It's their S700-2-10 Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:04:31 AM PST US
    From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: switch for smoke pump
    Jonsey, I would use a SPDT center off switch (ON - OFF - ON) to select the pump on, pump off, remote function. Wire the "pump on" side directly to the pump. Wire the "remote" side through a SPST (ON - OFF) switch and back to the ON side of the DPDT switch. The SPST switch can be a push button, if you desire. When you turn the function switch ON it is "smoke on" until you turn it off. When the function switch is REMOTE, it will be "smoke on" only while you hold the push button. Roger


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:21:35 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: switch for smoke pump
    Jonsey, just out of curiosity, what purpose does the remote switch serve? Is that so a passenger in the back can also control the smoke? I don't know much about smoke systems as you can tell. Thanks Bill S Do not archive _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Jones Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:47 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows: pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would one wire it? Thanks Jonsey


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:01:56 AM PST US
    From: "Dennis Jones" <djones@northboone.net>
    Subject: Re: switch for smoke pump
    The remote just allows one to turn it on and off with the hands on the throttle and stick and not have to reach up to the panel during aerobatics. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Schlatterer To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:17 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump Jonsey, just out of curiosity, what purpose does the remote switch serve? Is that so a passenger in the back can also control the smoke? I don't know much about smoke systems as you can tell. Thanks Bill S Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Jones Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:47 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows: pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would one wire it? Thanks Jonsey href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:12:01 AM PST US
    From: "Dennis Jones" <djones@northboone.net>
    Subject: Re: switch for smoke pump
    Bob I forgot. I have a light on the panel to let me know the pump is on. Should I wire that just after the pump on the switch side? Also is that #6 going to ground? Also if I wanted to wire as Roger had indicated with the off position in the middle so I could go straight to either the pump on or to the remote switch would I use the S700-2-1? How would that impact the wiring? Thanks Jonsey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:54 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 10:46 PM 5/2/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >>I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows: >>pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn >>the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would >>one wire it? > > > Here's one way . . . > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Smoke_Oil_Pump_1.pdf > > B&C offers a suitable switch. It's their S700-2-10 > > Bob . . . > > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > >


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:28:03 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Comm Antenna
    At 04:52 PM 5/2/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm having a problem with my comm antenna installed in my Europa. It is a >common copper tape antenna with toroids over the coax. Materials and plans >came from RST Engineering. Installed in the vertical rudder fin per Europa >directions and tuned using a SWR bridge. > >When I transmit, certain frequencies cause my ACK ELT to transmit. It is >located on the bottom of the fuselage touching the rear bulkhead (under >the elevator torque tube). This is about 20 inches forward of the antenna >and near the tip of the copper tape. If I disconnect the cable going to >the remote actuator, there is no problem. (I had this problem previously >and added toroids to the four wires but no change). > >Also, when I transmit, certain frequencies cause the magnetometer in my >GRT EFIS to swing heading 20 degrees. The magnetometer is mounted on the >port side of the fuselage essentially on the fuselage parting line and >just at the rear of the D panel bulkhead. This is about 60 inches forward >of the antenna and about aligned with the center of the copper tape. > >Have others had difficulity with the dipole in the rudder causing >problems? Found a solution? How about using other antennas, like Bob Archer? It's probably not the antenna . . . in fact, the BETTER the antenna works, the worse the problem(s) get. When crafting products to live in the real worlds aboard aircraft, the the thoughtful and through designer tries to anticipate and accommodate every expected stress that might attack the product's performance. This process generally includes an assessment of the design against guidelines cited in DO-160. See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/do160.html Under the topic of Radiated Susceptibility, DO_160 cites a variety of test levels which a product must stand of without degradation of performance. Things that are buried in the guts of an all metal airplane and have no direct sight of external antennas (either on airplane or off) have the lowest test levels. Things that have clear sight of and perhaps close proximity to antennas have the highest test levels. There is a HUGE difference between the highest and lowest levels. In a small plastic airplane, we're faced with the worst case scenario for friendly system integration. The exposure probabilities and magnitudes for the small plastic airplane are as bad or worse than any of those encountered by the heavy iron birds. The variables for electro-whizzies responding badly to comm (or even transponder) signals fall into three categories. (1) strength and signature of the interferring source. Is it radiating stresses that are normally expected to be under control? In the case of your transceiver and antenna installation, the strength is obviously strong . . . and it's unlikely that were seeing the effects of spurious outputs. (2) coupling mode. In this case you have close proximity, un obstructed spaces between an antenna that's radiating normally and a device that operates normally . . . except while you're transmitting. Can this feature be mitigated? Probably not in that size airplane constructed of radio energy transparent materials. (3) inability of the offended device to operate in this environment. Unfortunately, may devices that have served us well in metal airplanes for decades are seeing new and un-anticipated problems in plastic airplanes. They may have been artfully crafted with the metal airplane in mind. A further consideration is that devices intended for the OBAM aircraft market are not being produced by individuals with knowledge of (or perhaps an interest in) what's needed to work properly in this relatively unique environment. I have one such case on my bench right now. The Van's aircraft ammeter would be hard pressed to run the gauntlets necessary for qualification onto type certificated aircraft . . . much less an OBAM aircraft. The task before you is daunting without the support of skills and experience of individuals who solve these problems for a living. Your best bet is to get with the manufacturers of the victim devices and see if any other customers have experienced difficulty and what remedies were useful. Bob . . .


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:07:23 AM PST US
    From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Comm Antenna
    On 3-May-08, at 12:24 , Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >> > >> >> I'm having a problem with my comm antenna installed in my Europa. >> It is a common copper tape antenna with toroids over the coax. >> Materials and plans came from RST Engineering. Installed in the >> vertical rudder fin per Europa directions and tuned using a SWR >> bridge. >> >> When I transmit, certain frequencies cause my ACK ELT to transmit. >> It is located on the bottom of the fuselage touching the rear >> bulkhead (under the elevator torque tube). This is about 20 inches >> forward of the antenna and near the tip of the copper tape. If I >> disconnect the cable going to the remote actuator, there is no >> problem. (I had this problem previously and added toroids to the >> four wires but no change). >> > It's probably not the antenna . . . in fact, the BETTER the antenna > works, the worse the problem(s) get. > It seems that the cable between the ELT and the cockpit control is acting as an antenna, picking up COM transmissions, and feeding it into the ELT. This signal coming in on the cable is somehow interpreted as if the cockpit control had been activated. So, I wonder if there is a way to shield the cable between the ELT and the cockpit control, to reduce the amount of energy that it is picking up from COM transmissions. Also, rerouting that cable further away from the COM antenna would reduce the energy level it sees. Bob - the ACK ELT uses a length of apparently conventional telephone cable to connect the ELT to the cockpit control. Is it worth trying to replace that telephone cable with some sort of shielded cable, splicing it into a piece of telephone cable at each end so it has the correct connectors? If that was tried, where should the shield be grounded (keeping in mind this is a composite aircraft, and that the ELT enclosure and cockpit control are both made of plastic)? -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:13:47 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: switch for smoke pump
    Ahhhh, I specialize in seeing the obvious as oblivious ;-) Thanks Bill S _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Jones Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump The remote just allows one to turn it on and off with the hands on the throttle and stick and not have to reach up to the panel during aerobatics. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Schlatterer <mailto:billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:17 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump Jonsey, just out of curiosity, what purpose does the remote switch serve? Is that so a passenger in the back can also control the smoke? I don't know much about smoke systems as you can tell. Thanks Bill S Do not archive _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Jones Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:47 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows: pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would one wire it? Thanks Jonsey href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:47:03 PM PST US
    Subject: 90 degree disconnect - what kind of crimp tool?
    From: "mikef" <mikefapex@gmail.com>
    Due to space limitations I have a need for a 90 degree disconnect/fast-on. I've obtained both the insulated and bare versions but I am not sure how to go about crimping these little suckers. I guess I could put them in a vise and screw until crushed flat. Seems heavy handed after using my nice PIDG crimp tool. Thanks for any pointers, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180948#180948


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:52:26 PM PST US
    Subject: KY-97 Power Pins
    From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
    Hey group, I am helping to install a King Ky-97 comm into a friend's airplane and have a question about wiring the power pins. The manual lists "SWITCHED A/C POWER", "13.75 A/C POWER" along with "13.75V POWER". Does anyone know how these pin groups differ in function? Would it be safe to connect them all together? Regards, Matt-


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:15:07 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: KY-97 Power Pins
    At 02:49 PM 5/3/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Hey group, > >I am helping to install a King Ky-97 comm into a friend's airplane and >have a question about wiring the power pins. The manual lists "SWITCHED >A/C POWER", "13.75 A/C POWER" along with "13.75V POWER". Does anyone know >how these pin groups differ in function? Would it be safe to connect them >all together? > > >Regards, > >Matt- If I read the data at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KY97A.pdf correctly, pins 14 and "R" are the ship's power input from the bus. Pins 11, 13, "M" and "P" according to Note 4 all get tied together. If we had a schematic of the radio, I think we would find that two of the four cited above are switched power FROM the bus and two others are power INTO the transponder's electronics. This pair of pathways are brought out downstream of the transponder power switch to allow you a switched source of power for the encoder. Bob . . .




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --