Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 AM - Re: Voltmeter/Ammeter Recommendations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
4. 08:21 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Bill Schlatterer)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Dennis Jones)
6. 09:12 AM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Dennis Jones)
7. 09:28 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:07 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (Kevin Horton)
9. 01:13 PM - Re: switch for smoke pump (Bill Schlatterer)
10. 01:47 PM - 90 degree disconnect - what kind of crimp tool? (mikef)
11. 01:52 PM - KY-97 Power Pins (Matt Prather)
12. 10:15 PM - Re: KY-97 Power Pins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Voltmeter/Ammeter Recommendations |
At 12:19 AM 5/2/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Bob: I'd like some clarification on two apparent inconsistencies.
>
>1. On page 4-9, you recommend a battery ammeter, but it appears that in
>the Z drawings, you show the ammeter (loadmeter) wired to show alternator
>output instead. An inconsistency or am I just ignorant.
>2. On page 4-8 (figure 4-5), you show a voltmeter placed on the incoming
>and ground sides of the voltage regulator, and provide text on the
>implications of various readings. However, Z-23 (note 8) seems to show a
>voltmeter recommendation on the alternator field instead (again with good
>troubleshooting notes).
>
>I'm looking for installation recommendations for one voltmeter and one
>ammeter for a Z-11 approach (perhaps w/ 2 Pmags).
Understand first that the book speaks to lots of options . . .
not the least of which are a variety of architectures
and choices for instrumentation. The options are so
diverse that one should not take the whole as any
sort of collective recommendation.
Voltmeters and ammeters are not especially useful as
aids to operating an airplane. 99.5% of the time they
say the same thing every time you look at one. In
other words, they only confirm a reading that's easily
predictable. This leaves them with a duty of being a
warning device . . . also not especially useful. Because
they say the same thing most of the time, we tend to
miss them in the scan of important things . . . or
even ignore or dismiss the odd readings when they do
occur.
The PRIMARY electrical system monitor for use in flight
is the active notification of low voltage. When
the light tells you the alternator is not supporting
ship's, there's nothing that a voltmeter or ammeter
adds to knowledge that helps you get down without
breaking a sweat. When the light comes on, you will,
of course, have a plan-B in place that's accomplished
in a timely manner and with minimum pilot workload.
Once on the ground and with tools in hand, voltmeters
and ammeters ARE useful for trouble shooting. Problem
is, that your panel mounted ammeters and voltmeters tend
to sample one place in the system. An objective trouble
shooting activity depends on a host of measurements all
over the system.
Bottom line is, if you'd like to have some panel
decoration that goes beyond the "genius-light", the
options are diverse and no particular combination
of choices is going to make your airplane any easier,
more difficult or more costly to operate.
If it were my airplane, I'd have a low voltage warning
light on the main bus and any aux battery bus. I'd
have a loadmeter on each engine driven power source.
I'd instrument the voltage on the e-bus.
Is that a recommendation? You may view it as such
if you wish. In reality, it's a personal recipe
for success consistent with my design goals and
understanding of the system. You may have different
goals. Know that risks associated with doing something
different (within a boundaries of a well considered
Plan-A/Plan-B modus operandi) are zero.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: switch for smoke pump |
At 10:46 PM 5/2/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows:
>pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn
>the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would
>one wire it?
Here's one way . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Smoke_Oil_Pump_1.pdf
B&C offers a suitable switch. It's their S700-2-10
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: switch for smoke pump |
Jonsey,
I would use a SPDT center off switch (ON - OFF - ON) to select the pump
on,
pump off, remote function. Wire the "pump on" side directly to the
pump.
Wire the "remote" side through a SPST (ON - OFF) switch and back to the
ON
side of the DPDT switch. The SPST switch can be a push button, if you
desire.
When you turn the function switch ON it is "smoke on" until you turn it
off.
When the function switch is REMOTE, it will be "smoke on" only while you
hold the push button.
Roger
Message 4
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Subject: | switch for smoke pump |
Jonsey, just out of curiosity, what purpose does the remote switch serve?
Is that so a passenger in the back can also control the smoke? I don't know
much about smoke systems as you can tell.
Thanks Bill S
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Jones
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows:
pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn
the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would
one wire it?
Thanks
Jonsey
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: switch for smoke pump |
The remote just allows one to turn it on and off with the hands on the
throttle and stick and not have to reach up to the panel during
aerobatics.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schlatterer
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
Jonsey, just out of curiosity, what purpose does the remote switch
serve? Is that so a passenger in the back can also control the smoke?
I don't know much about smoke systems as you can tell.
Thanks Bill S
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Jones
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:47 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows:
pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to
turn the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how
would one wire it?
Thanks
Jonsey
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: switch for smoke pump |
Bob
I forgot. I have a light on the panel to let me know the pump is on. Should
I wire that just after the pump on the switch side? Also is that #6 going to
ground? Also if I wanted to wire as Roger had indicated with the off
position in the middle so I could go straight to either the pump on or to
the remote switch would I use the S700-2-1? How would that impact the
wiring?
Thanks
Jonsey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 10:46 PM 5/2/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows:
>>pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn
>>the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would
>>one wire it?
>
>
> Here's one way . . .
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Smoke_Oil_Pump_1.pdf
>
> B&C offers a suitable switch. It's their S700-2-10
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna |
At 04:52 PM 5/2/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I'm having a problem with my comm antenna installed in my Europa. It is a
>common copper tape antenna with toroids over the coax. Materials and plans
>came from RST Engineering. Installed in the vertical rudder fin per Europa
>directions and tuned using a SWR bridge.
>
>When I transmit, certain frequencies cause my ACK ELT to transmit. It is
>located on the bottom of the fuselage touching the rear bulkhead (under
>the elevator torque tube). This is about 20 inches forward of the antenna
>and near the tip of the copper tape. If I disconnect the cable going to
>the remote actuator, there is no problem. (I had this problem previously
>and added toroids to the four wires but no change).
>
>Also, when I transmit, certain frequencies cause the magnetometer in my
>GRT EFIS to swing heading 20 degrees. The magnetometer is mounted on the
>port side of the fuselage essentially on the fuselage parting line and
>just at the rear of the D panel bulkhead. This is about 60 inches forward
>of the antenna and about aligned with the center of the copper tape.
>
>Have others had difficulity with the dipole in the rudder causing
>problems? Found a solution? How about using other antennas, like Bob Archer?
It's probably not the antenna . . . in fact, the BETTER the antenna
works, the worse the problem(s) get.
When crafting products to live in the real worlds aboard
aircraft, the the thoughtful and through designer tries to
anticipate and accommodate every expected stress that might
attack the product's performance.
This process generally includes an assessment of the
design against guidelines cited in DO-160. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/do160.html
Under the topic of Radiated Susceptibility, DO_160
cites a variety of test levels which a product
must stand of without degradation of performance.
Things that are buried in the guts of an all metal
airplane and have no direct sight of external antennas
(either on airplane or off) have the lowest test
levels. Things that have clear sight of and perhaps
close proximity to antennas have the highest test
levels. There is a HUGE difference between the highest
and lowest levels.
In a small plastic airplane, we're faced with the
worst case scenario for friendly system integration.
The exposure probabilities and magnitudes for the
small plastic airplane are as bad or worse than
any of those encountered by the heavy iron birds.
The variables for electro-whizzies responding badly
to comm (or even transponder) signals fall into
three categories.
(1) strength and signature of the interferring
source. Is it radiating stresses that are normally
expected to be under control? In the case of your
transceiver and antenna installation, the strength
is obviously strong . . . and it's unlikely that
were seeing the effects of spurious outputs.
(2) coupling mode. In this case you have close
proximity, un obstructed spaces between an
antenna that's radiating normally and a device
that operates normally . . . except while you're
transmitting.
Can this feature be mitigated? Probably not in
that size airplane constructed of radio energy
transparent materials.
(3) inability of the offended device to operate
in this environment. Unfortunately, may devices
that have served us well in metal airplanes for
decades are seeing new and un-anticipated problems
in plastic airplanes. They may have been
artfully crafted with the metal airplane in mind.
A further consideration is that devices intended
for the OBAM aircraft market are not being produced
by individuals with knowledge of (or perhaps an
interest in) what's needed to work properly
in this relatively unique environment.
I have one such case on my bench right now. The
Van's aircraft ammeter would be hard pressed to
run the gauntlets necessary for qualification
onto type certificated aircraft . . . much less
an OBAM aircraft.
The task before you is daunting without the
support of skills and experience of individuals
who solve these problems for a living. Your
best bet is to get with the manufacturers of
the victim devices and see if any other customers
have experienced difficulty and what remedies
were useful.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna |
On 3-May-08, at 12:24 , Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
>
>> >
>>
>> I'm having a problem with my comm antenna installed in my Europa.
>> It is a common copper tape antenna with toroids over the coax.
>> Materials and plans came from RST Engineering. Installed in the
>> vertical rudder fin per Europa directions and tuned using a SWR
>> bridge.
>>
>> When I transmit, certain frequencies cause my ACK ELT to transmit.
>> It is located on the bottom of the fuselage touching the rear
>> bulkhead (under the elevator torque tube). This is about 20 inches
>> forward of the antenna and near the tip of the copper tape. If I
>> disconnect the cable going to the remote actuator, there is no
>> problem. (I had this problem previously and added toroids to the
>> four wires but no change).
>>
> It's probably not the antenna . . . in fact, the BETTER the antenna
> works, the worse the problem(s) get.
>
It seems that the cable between the ELT and the cockpit control is
acting as an antenna, picking up COM transmissions, and feeding it
into the ELT. This signal coming in on the cable is somehow
interpreted as if the cockpit control had been activated. So, I
wonder if there is a way to shield the cable between the ELT and the
cockpit control, to reduce the amount of energy that it is picking up
from COM transmissions. Also, rerouting that cable further away from
the COM antenna would reduce the energy level it sees.
Bob - the ACK ELT uses a length of apparently conventional telephone
cable to connect the ELT to the cockpit control. Is it worth trying
to replace that telephone cable with some sort of shielded cable,
splicing it into a piece of telephone cable at each end so it has the
correct connectors? If that was tried, where should the shield be
grounded (keeping in mind this is a composite aircraft, and that the
ELT enclosure and cockpit control are both made of plastic)?
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 9
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Subject: | switch for smoke pump |
Ahhhh, I specialize in seeing the obvious as oblivious ;-)
Thanks Bill S
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Jones
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
The remote just allows one to turn it on and off with the hands on the
throttle and stick and not have to reach up to the panel during aerobatics.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schlatterer <mailto:billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
Jonsey, just out of curiosity, what purpose does the remote switch serve?
Is that so a passenger in the back can also control the smoke? I don't know
much about smoke systems as you can tell.
Thanks Bill S
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Jones
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch for smoke pump
I would like to wire the panel switch to work as follows:
pump off, pump on and a third position to activate a remote switch to turn
the pump on and off. What would be the proper switch to use and how would
one wire it?
Thanks
Jonsey
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 10
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Subject: | 90 degree disconnect - what kind of crimp tool? |
Due to space limitations I have a need for a 90 degree disconnect/fast-on. I've
obtained both the insulated and bare versions but I am not sure how to go about
crimping these little suckers.
I guess I could put them in a vise and screw until crushed flat. Seems heavy handed
after using my nice PIDG crimp tool.
Thanks for any pointers,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180948#180948
Message 11
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Subject: | KY-97 Power Pins |
Hey group,
I am helping to install a King Ky-97 comm into a friend's airplane and
have a question about wiring the power pins. The manual lists "SWITCHED
A/C POWER", "13.75 A/C POWER" along with "13.75V POWER". Does anyone know
how these pin groups differ in function? Would it be safe to connect them
all together?
Regards,
Matt-
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: KY-97 Power Pins |
At 02:49 PM 5/3/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Hey group,
>
>I am helping to install a King Ky-97 comm into a friend's airplane and
>have a question about wiring the power pins. The manual lists "SWITCHED
>A/C POWER", "13.75 A/C POWER" along with "13.75V POWER". Does anyone know
>how these pin groups differ in function? Would it be safe to connect them
>all together?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Matt-
If I read the data at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KY97A.pdf
correctly, pins 14 and "R" are the ship's power input
from the bus.
Pins 11, 13, "M" and "P" according to Note 4 all get
tied together. If we had a schematic of the radio, I
think we would find that two of the four cited above
are switched power FROM the bus and two others are
power INTO the transponder's electronics. This pair
of pathways are brought out downstream of the transponder
power switch to allow you a switched source of power for
the encoder.
Bob . . .
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