Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:05 AM - Re: SD-8 on when ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:27 AM - Re: oil pressure warn logic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification ()
4. 06:59 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification ()
5. 07:45 AM - Info on TKM "LED" cdi (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: oil pressure warn logic (Joe)
7. 09:13 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification ()
8. 10:30 AM - Re: oil pressure warn logic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: oil pressure warn logic (Ron Shannon)
10. 10:34 AM - Re: Artex ME406 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:35 AM - Re: oil pressure warn logic (Ron Shannon)
12. 10:49 AM - Re: oil pressure warn logic (Ron Shannon)
13. 11:06 AM - Re: AC switches in DC applications (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 12:08 PM - Re: AW: New HOBBS Idea (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 12:18 PM - Re: 90 degree disconnect - what kind of crimp tool? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 12:57 PM - Re: AW: New HOBBS Idea ()
17. 01:30 PM - Fw: Torque Values (Henry Trzeciakowski)
18. 05:06 PM - Re: Fw: Torque Values (Bob White)
19. 06:13 PM - Re: Artex ME406 (Bill Bradburry)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: SD-8 on when ? |
At 08:24 PM 5/5/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I have an SD-8 back up alternator on my RV-7A. I'm just curious if most
>people leave it running on all the time (i.e. do the two alternators fight
>each other ?) or just plan on turning it on if the main unit fails.
>
>Mike Corder
The original design philosophy behind Z-13/8 was to use the SD-8
as a back-up alternator in a two-layer electrical system. There
is no need nor advantage in running the SD-8 in tandem with the
main alternator (unless you main alternator is undersized . . .
in which case you have a design issue much more serious than
deciding how to run the SD-8).
They don't "fight" each other but there's no operational
rationale for tandem operation.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure warn logic |
At 02:29 PM 5/5/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks, Matt. All points well taken.
>
>One reason to have that light OFF during engine off ground ops would be to
>make it more palatable to use a blinking LED. After due deliberations, I
>committed to the key switch some time back. As you point out, it would
>have been easy with mag toggles. A latching defeat switch, perhaps with an
>auto timeout in addition to the master cycle reset you suggest, is a
>possibility.
>
>Of course, the oil pressure warn is critical, and mandates a KISS
>architecture. No doubt, it's my inclination to complicate it that deserves
>a defeat switch. :-)
>
>Ron
Do you have a low voltage warning light? Does it not flash?
The reason for flashing lights is to get attention to an
urgent matter. Another advantage of flashing lights is to
remind you to turn the master switch(es) off after engine
shutdown.
I'm curious as to the driver behind efforts to defeat the
ideas that drove the original design goals for these lights.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
2.3-2.5 supercharged. I am at the same position - working through the
wires.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Fulmer
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
--> <afulmer@charter.net>
What kind of Subaru Glenn? I am trying to nail down my
Z19RB/Eggenfellner Hybrid wiring diagram.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall
Wiring/Avionics
Alexander City, AL 35010
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:06 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob or someone who has already done this...
>>>
>>>1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the
>>>diagram does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a
>>>(2-10) or (2-11)?
>>>
>>>
>>>2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3)
>>>do I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment
>>>is close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3?
>>>
>>>3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Glenn,
>>>Subaru powered Lancair Legacy
>>>
>>>Do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 4
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Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Carlos,
If you have H6 you have a heavy motor. Egg claims - oh it's about the
same weight as the 360, that's B.S. unless you don't add oil and throw
away the starter, alt etc. IMO - The Lycoming 360 is available in some
30 different configurations and you can get the same power that Egg gets
out of the H6 for 50+ lbs less. They both burn the same fuel and with
the Lycoming you win with weight, reliability and no coolant issues.
Those Egg guys are forever fighting the high temps.
I am working with a 4 cylinder which will be gently aspirated to 180-200
hp. My engine will be 100 lbs less than the H6. Yes, the H6 may last a
few hours longer blah blah, but I don't need the baggage. We have
developed a cooling oil/water system which I think is superior to the
Egg job. No issues to date. At some point I'll cover up the secrets and
take some pictures.
Ok, now back to these wires :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Carlos Trigo
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
--> <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Wow, Glenn
"Lighter but more powerful than the Egg", how did you do it? Can you
share details?
Carlos
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com
> Sent: segunda-feira, 5 de Maio de 2008 18:19
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>
>
> Custom built - the H6 Egg was too heavy for my design, so we decided
> to build our own. Funny, I too am trying to compare the two electrical
> designs and make one that compliments both schematics. Since my engine
> is lighter but more powerful than the Egg crate, I will be installing
> my batteries up front which will save a bunch of Saturdays snaking
> wires to the rear. Keep in touch, it would be fun to compare designs
> when finished. At some point I will start taking pictures and post on
> my blog.
>
> Glenn
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Info on TKM "LED" cdi |
Can anyone direct me to info on the TKM cdi, in particular whether it will
work with the Garmin and King KNS80 units (I know they need a resolver)? and
whether its internal switcher switches all input, or if it is like the King
209A and apparently bypasses the resolver?
Anyone use this unit, like or not, I know some don't like the led lights and
prefer the needles?
Thanks, Skip
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure warn logic |
Ron,
You could check the continuity of the unused terminals LR and BO on the
back of the ACS key switch. Check from LR and BO to BAT and to GROUIND
and to terminals R and L with the switch in different positions. Report
your findings back here and maybe someone can use that information to
help you. Even if those unused terminals are of no use for your
application, knowing how they are wired is useful information that could
help others. This website
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08448.pdf has a
pinout of the back of the switch, but there is no schematic to show
exactly how the switch is wired internally. Adding a circuit component
that disables the low pressure warning light introduces a failure point
that could prevent the light from warning you when needed.
Joe
Message 7
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Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Scott,
I did some review again yesterday and I believe you are on the
right track. The two can compliment each other. Bob goes further in
supporting additional equipment. I am basing my setup on Bob's model,
but will use the starter, alternator bypass from Jan's drawing. I will
not use the big 200A anl's between the battery. As Bob would point out
the disconnect needs to come from the crowbar OV, not the battery. If
Jan's model protects the battery but not the system you haven't gained
anything. If the alternator is about to detonate the battery, you'd
better catch it long before the ANL blows. If my system is doing
anything but 13.7 - 14.5 Bob's model will let you know about it or
respond to it. Under normal circumstances good monitoring far exceeds
the value of waiting until the battery is overloaded or worse.
When you look at what Bob has written and transpose it over Jan's model,
they really accomplish the same goal. Jan is eliminating the starter
contactor which I think has other advantages as far as wiring. Bob has
added OV protection and notification of system variances which makes for
better monitoring. Jan's model is sort of wiring for dummies. It will
definitely work, but it's not a good solution for control freaks. Also,
Jan likes that big expensive 4P3T 12 position switch which to me is just
a big $$$ single point of failure. So when you break it down you can
probably create the best of both by combining efforts.
If you like we can be your peers! Attach a copy when you get a chance.
Glenn Long
Lancair Legacy FG
N3UH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
R. Shook
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
--> <sshook@cox.net>
For my Z19/Egg Hybrid wiring, I used all of Jan's recommendations for
supplying electrical power to the engine ECU, prop, and fuel pumps. The
Z19 part comes in with the other components in the electrical system.
It's not totally complete, but if you want a look and have TurboCad or a
DXF or DWG reader, I would be happy to send it.
Disclaimer: I am not flying, and the drawing has not been peer reviewed
yet.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Fulmer
Sent: Monday, 05 May, 2008 09:29
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
<afulmer@charter.net>
What kind of Subaru Glenn? I am trying to nail down my
Z19RB/Eggenfellner Hybrid wiring diagram.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall
Wiring/Avionics
Alexander City, AL 35010
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:06 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob or someone who has already done this...
>>>
>>>1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the
>>>diagram does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a
>>>(2-10) or (2-11)?
>>>
>>>
>>>2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3)
>>>do I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment
>>>is close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3?
>>>
>>>3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Glenn,
>>>Subaru powered Lancair Legacy
>>>
>>>Do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure warn logic |
At 10:55 AM 5/6/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>Ron,
>You could check the continuity of the unused terminals LR and BO on the
>back of the ACS key switch. Check from LR and BO to BAT and to GROUIND
>and to terminals R and L with the switch in different positions. Report
>your findings back here and maybe someone can use that information to help
>you. Even if those unused terminals are of no use for your application,
>knowing how they are wired is useful information that could help
>others. This website
><http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08448.pdf>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08448.pdf
>has a pinout of the back of the switch, but there is no schematic to show
>exactly how the switch is wired internally. Adding a circuit component
>that disables the low pressure warning light introduces a failure point
>that could prevent the light from warning you when needed.
>Joe
Functionality of the internal workings of the classic off-l-r-both-start
switch is described at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z26-27K.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure warn logic |
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 02:29 PM 5/5/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
> Thanks, Matt. All points well taken.
> >
> > One reason to have that light OFF during engine off ground ops would be
> > to make it more palatable to use a blinking LED. After due deliberations, I
> > committed to the key switch some time back. As you point out, it would have
> > been easy with mag toggles. A latching defeat switch, perhaps with an auto
> > timeout in addition to the master cycle reset you suggest, is a possibility.
> >
> > Of course, the oil pressure warn is critical, and mandates a KISS
> > architecture. No doubt, it's my inclination to complicate it that deserves
a
> > defeat switch. :-)
> >
> > Ron
> >
>
> Do you have a low voltage warning light? Does it not flash?
> The reason for flashing lights is to get attention to an
> urgent matter. Another advantage of flashing lights is to
> remind you to turn the master switch(es) off after engine
> shutdown.
>
> I'm curious as to the driver behind efforts to defeat the
> ideas that drove the original design goals for these lights.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, I thought I had explained the driver -- not necessarily a sufficient
one -- to allow ground ops (programming GPS, etc.) without having the oil
pressure warn light blinking away. (Yes, my LV warn light will blink, and
the same issue may apply when not on ground power.)
I did concede at the outset and again above that this concern may not be
important enough to change the circuit, logic, etc. Just a puzzle that I
thought worthy of discussion if, and only if, it could be solved safely and
reliably.
Ron
Message 10
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At 12:52 PM 5/5/2008 -0400, you wrote:
><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> The instructions call for a 1/4 amp slo blo fuse. Any ideas as to where to
>source this item?
http://www.elexp.com/fus_0mdl.htm
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure warn logic |
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Joe <fran5sew@banyanol.com> wrote:
> Ron,
> You could check the continuity of the unused terminals LR and BO on the
> back of the ACS key switch. Check from LR and BO to BAT and to GROUIND and
> to terminals R and L with the switch in different positions. Report your
> findings back here and maybe someone can use that information to help you.
> Even if those unused terminals are of no use for your application, knowing
> how they are wired is useful information that could help others. This
> website http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2008Individual/Cat08448.pdf has
> a pinout of the back of the switch, but there is no schematic to show
> exactly how the switch is wired internally. Adding a circuit component that
> disables the low pressure warning light introduces a failure point that
> could prevent the light from warning you when needed.
> Joe
>
The key switch model without START doesn't have those terminals. Just GND, L
and R.
I realize this proposal could introduce failure points, and thought I had
already acknowledged that, though perhaps not enough. Surely the fact that
some proposal may introduce failure points if not done right is not a reason
to explore possible ways to do it right.
Ron
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: oil pressure warn logic |
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
> ...
> Functionality of the internal workings of the classic off-l-r-both-start
> switch is described at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z26-27K.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Understood. I referenced Z-27 in the first post in this thread.
Ron
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: AC switches in DC applications |
At 12:00 PM 5/4/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob
>
>I know this has been discussed before. I'm unable to find the reference in
>the connection about AC switches, there ratings and how to make sure you
>are using an appropriate AC switch in a DC application.
>
>Thanks
>Jonsey
See http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: AW: New HOBBS Idea |
At 09:37 AM 5/1/2008 +0200, you wrote:
><ykibuess@bluewin.ch>
>
> There is another clever solution for hooking up the Hobbs to your engine:
>Comco Ikarus (http://www.comco-ikarus.de/index_english.html) sells an
>electronic filter produced by Utz Schicke (producer of the Schicke GR6
>regulator for Rotax engines) which hooks directly to the AC wires of the
>alternator. Whenever the alternator is in action (even with the regulator
>shut off), the Hobbs (or an other brand of hour meter) gets DC power and is
>active too. I got my filter for 65 Euros.
It's also possible to do-it-yerself. Here's an approach
I sketched for some folks several years ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Hourmeter_Adapter_for_PM_Alternators.pdf
It's a simple AC/DC rectifier combined with a shunt regulator
to keep the capacitor from charging up to un-restrained maximum
that can be well over 50 volts in cruise rpm.
The transistor needs to be heat-sinked to an aluminum
enclosure. It should also be insulated from the heatsink.
Hence the call-out for an insulator kit on the drawing.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: 90 degree disconnect - what kind of crimp tool? |
At 01:43 PM 5/3/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Due to space limitations I have a need for a 90 degree disconnect/fast-on.
>I've obtained both the insulated and bare versions but I am not sure how
>to go about crimping these little suckers.
>
>I guess I could put them in a vise and screw until crushed flat. Seems
>heavy handed after using my nice PIDG crimp tool.
>
>Thanks for any pointers,
>
>Mike
If your existing tools won't do it, you can look for
an alternative tool or process. Consider the hardware
store tool like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/Two_Shot_Crimp_Tool.jpg
Tools specific to that terminal are probably not cheap
and you only need to do a few installations.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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Subject: | AW: New HOBBS Idea |
Ira,
Great find. This has to be the simplest solution yet. No wires! Yeah! I suppose
it still have moving parts like those old Swiss watch movements where you shook
them up to wind them, but it should last for years. The best price I found
so far is about $50.00 from ENM. If anyone finds a better price, please post.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Europa (Alfred Buess)
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:37 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: AW: New HOBBS Idea
--> <ykibuess@bluewin.ch>
There is another clever solution for hooking up the Hobbs to your engine: Comco Ikarus (http://www.comco-ikarus.de/index_english.html) sells an electronic filter produced by Utz Schicke (producer of the Schicke GR6 regulator for Rotax engines) which hooks directly to the AC wires of the alternator. Whenever the alternator is in action (even with the regulator shut off), the Hobbs (or an other brand of hour meter) gets DC power and is active too. I got my filter for 65 Euros.
Alfred
Alfred Buess, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland
E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch
Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam wing, Rotax 912ULS, Airmaster 332 CS
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von rampil
Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 12:43
An: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Betreff: RotaxEngines-List: New HOBBS Idea
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
At SnF this year, my best find was a small device for engine time recording. It
is completely independent of and connections to the rest of the aircraft (power
or engine). It time the duration of vibration!
When the engine is running, the timer is going with its own 5 yr battery. Its made
by ENM and I purchased it at PSA aircraft Supply (Lakeland, FL) for $22 (half
retail from ENM)
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=176686#176686
Message 17
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Subject: | Fw: Torque Values |
----- Original Message -----
From: Henry Trzeciakowski
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Torque Values
Bob:
I just can't find any info on what the torque values are for the large
and small terminals on the Battery Contactor and Starter Contactor.
Any assistance appreciated.
Hank
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Torque Values |
Hi Hank,
I usually tighten those up until the lock washer compresses, then snug
it just a little more. FWIW
Bob W.
Do not archive
On Tue, 6 May 2008 16:33:24 -0700
"Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Henry Trzeciakowski
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Torque Values
>
>
> Bob:
>
> I just can't find any info on what the torque values are for the large and small
terminals on the Battery Contactor and Starter Contactor.
>
> Any assistance appreciated.
>
> Hank
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/
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Thanks, Bob.
I will have to look around in there a little. They have a $20 min order and
my fuse and holder is only about $1.35.
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Artex ME406
--> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 12:52 PM 5/5/2008 -0400, you wrote:
><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> The instructions call for a 1/4 amp slo blo fuse. Any ideas as to
>where to source this item?
http://www.elexp.com/fus_0mdl.htm
Bob . . .
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