Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Larry Rosen)
2. 04:02 AM - Re: PMA-6000 intercom 28V install (RALPH HOOVER)
3. 07:50 AM - Architecture Review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:35 AM - Z-13/8 AWG question (Jerry Ricciotti)
5. 09:19 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification ()
6. 09:30 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Scott R. Shook)
7. 10:34 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Scott R. Shook)
8. 11:22 AM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Allen Fulmer)
9. 11:35 AM - Re: Architecture Review (Scott R. Shook)
10. 02:07 PM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Ken)
11. 02:36 PM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Allen Fulmer)
12. 03:00 PM - Re: Z-13/8 AWG question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 03:45 PM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Bill Bradburry)
14. 04:23 PM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Scott R. Shook)
15. 07:36 PM - Re: Z-19 Item Clarification (Ken)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Z-19 Item Clarification |
Attached is a pdf of the file.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 12:24 PM 5/7/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with TurboCad Pro
>> 14 and
>> it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to read it
>> before,
>> if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
>
> PDF is as close to a universal print format as you can get.
> If you have Acrobat, you can print your CAD drawing to that.
> If you don't have a pdf generator, goto
>
> http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
>
> and get CutePDF Writer. Be sure to read and follow
> the installation requirements. Theres a conversion
> utility you need too.
>
> I've used these for years with excellent performance.
> They're free for the downloading.
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | PMA-6000 intercom 28V install |
Ben,
Sounds like about 12 w or so of extra heat localized near the regulator
(probably not a switcher with this note) I would follow PS Engineering's
recommendation. Because some have ignored the advice and not installed the
resistor and it worked doesn't mitigate the long term effects of additional
heat. Most things electronic work better and last longer if kept cool.
Ralph Hoover
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Westfall
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:24 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: PMA-6000 intercom 28V install
PS Engineering's PMA-6000 intercom has the following note:
"To reduce the amount of heat dissipated in the audio selector panel, when
used in a 28
Volt aircraft, it is required that the 15-Ohm, 15-Watt dropping resistor
(p/n 701-015-1501) be in-
stalled in series with the power input."
The install manual goes on to say "failure to do so will generate
unnecessary heat inside the unit and may void PS Engineering's warranty".
Does anyone have experience installing one of these units in a 28V
environment? Is the dropping resistor really required? The only reason I
ask is the local radio shops don't seem to know much about it which makes me
wonder if they ever used them. They all say they can order one but nobody
has one in stock.
-Ben Westfall
Message 3
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| Subject: | Architecture Review |
At 06:55 AM 5/8/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>Attached is a pdf of the file.
Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Hmmm. Perhaps there was some form of thread-creep
but the attached drawing has no resemblance to
Z-19. I'll have to let the List members work
on this. It's so far from the best I know how
to do, distilling it down to the simple-ideas
would take a significant amount of time . . .
a commodity I don't have in abundance right
now. Sorry.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Z-13/8 AWG question |
Greetings
Referring to Z-13/8 diagram, the wire from the battery contactor to the
main power distribution bus does not have a AWG callout. Would I be
correct in assuming it should be 14 AWG (the same as battery contactor
to the Main Battery Bus)
Thanks Jerry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Thanks for converting Larry.
Scott, you broke the simplification rule, but not the experimental one.
Starting from the grip, wow that's a bit lazy :) Looks good, thanks for
posting. The always hot deal for the fuel pumps/EFI/ECU is not a bad
thing on these Subes. Do you have a layout of your panel switches?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Rosen
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Attached is a pdf of the file.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 12:24 PM 5/7/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with TurboCad Pro
>> 14 and
>> it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to read it
>> before,
>> if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
>
> PDF is as close to a universal print format as you can get.
> If you have Acrobat, you can print your CAD drawing to that.
> If you don't have a pdf generator, goto
>
> http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
>
> and get CutePDF Writer. Be sure to read and follow
> the installation requirements. Theres a conversion
> utility you need too.
>
> I've used these for years with excellent performance.
> They're free for the downloading.
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Here is the PDF
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RALPH
HOOVER
Sent: Wednesday, 07 May, 2008 16:09
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
<hooverra@verizon.net>
Scott,
I was unable to open it with ACAD R14 or Intellicad (Airplane PDQ)
which usually opens some newer ACAD files 2000 up. I have not tried ACAD
2008. You might try DXF or Print to a PDF if you have access to Acrobat or
another PDF writer.
Ralph & Laura Hoover
RV7A N527LR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with TurboCad Pro 14 and
it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to read it before,
if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
Suggestions and critiques are welcome. It's only about 97% complete and the
notes section is not incorporated yet.
Notes:
I have Bob's crowbar OV module incorporated into my electrical diagram to
counter a runaway alternator.
I did the 200ANL's for same reasons Gary from Eggenfellner pointed out in
the Installation Manual. If you ever have a short along those fat wires,
those ANL's will blow before big sparks start flying and fires start. If I
recall correctly, Brian DeFord (here at CHD) lost his beautiful Cozy MK-IV
to a chaffed fat wire coming from the battery. No detonating battery - just
a chafed wire heated up and by the time he smelled the smoke (he was
standing outside the plane) the fire was started and it burned his plane to
the ground.
As far as using the $40 4P3T Honeywell switch...That is another item that
comes from Eggenfellner. As of March, Jan was discouraging the use of any
diode bridge rectifiers to supply the emergency power to the ECU. In fact,
I think it's now "not supported" because of an off field incident with an
inadequate diode. I have to agree with this logic. Those Honeywell
switches are pretty hard core and if you are not switching back and forth 10
times every flight (limiting your testing to 50 or 100hr intervals) that
switch will last quite a long time. Downside to this solution is that I
have an 'always hot' connection running up to that switch behind the panel.
I can live with that as long as the wire is marked as such.
My annunciator is just a bunch of Stanley LED light bars mounted to a
project board behind a reverse engraved acrylic. They are either powered on
when a switch comes on or when a ground closes (e.g. alternator failure
sense).
Everything else is pretty basic - Klixon breakers, AML-34 switches, OV
Crowbar, low voltage warning. There are really only 2 power busses, main bus
and avionics bus. The essential power for engine is through the
aforementioned switch and comes either directly from the battery or the main
bus - then to the switch - then to the breakers - then to the component.
There is no voltage indication if have switched electrical feeds for the
engine. My primary reason, if I have thrown that 4P3T switch - it means my
alternator has failed 20 minutes ago and I have already drained my primary
battery. I should have already found a suitable landing location.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Tuesday, 06 May, 2008 09:10
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Scott,
I did some review again yesterday and I believe you are on the
right track. The two can compliment each other. Bob goes further in
supporting additional equipment. I am basing my setup on Bob's model,
but will use the starter, alternator bypass from Jan's drawing. I will
not use the big 200A anl's between the battery. As Bob would point out
the disconnect needs to come from the crowbar OV, not the battery. If
Jan's model protects the battery but not the system you haven't gained
anything. If the alternator is about to detonate the battery, you'd
better catch it long before the ANL blows. If my system is doing
anything but 13.7 - 14.5 Bob's model will let you know about it or
respond to it. Under normal circumstances good monitoring far exceeds
the value of waiting until the battery is overloaded or worse.
When you look at what Bob has written and transpose it over Jan's model,
they really accomplish the same goal. Jan is eliminating the starter
contactor which I think has other advantages as far as wiring. Bob has
added OV protection and notification of system variances which makes for
better monitoring. Jan's model is sort of wiring for dummies. It will
definitely work, but it's not a good solution for control freaks. Also,
Jan likes that big expensive 4P3T 12 position switch which to me is just
a big $$$ single point of failure. So when you break it down you can
probably create the best of both by combining efforts.
If you like we can be your peers! Attach a copy when you get a chance.
Glenn Long
Lancair Legacy FG
N3UH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
R. Shook
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
--> <sshook@cox.net>
For my Z19/Egg Hybrid wiring, I used all of Jan's recommendations for
supplying electrical power to the engine ECU, prop, and fuel pumps. The
Z19 part comes in with the other components in the electrical system.
It's not totally complete, but if you want a look and have TurboCad or a
DXF or DWG reader, I would be happy to send it.
Disclaimer: I am not flying, and the drawing has not been peer reviewed
yet.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Fulmer
Sent: Monday, 05 May, 2008 09:29
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
<afulmer@charter.net>
What kind of Subaru Glenn? I am trying to nail down my
Z19RB/Eggenfellner Hybrid wiring diagram.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall
Wiring/Avionics
Alexander City, AL 35010
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:06 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob or someone who has already done this...
>>>
>>>1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the
>>>diagram does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a
>>>(2-10) or (2-11)?
>>>
>>>
>>>2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3)
>>>do I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment
>>>is close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3?
>>>
>>>3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Glenn,
>>>Subaru powered Lancair Legacy
>>>
>>>Do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
I am confused...Simplification rule starting from the grip? Are you talking
about my use of the infinity grips?
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Thursday, 08 May, 2008 09:16
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Thanks for converting Larry.
Scott, you broke the simplification rule, but not the experimental one.
Starting from the grip, wow that's a bit lazy :) Looks good, thanks for
posting. The always hot deal for the fuel pumps/EFI/ECU is not a bad
thing on these Subes. Do you have a layout of your panel switches?
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Rosen
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Attached is a pdf of the file.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 12:24 PM 5/7/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with TurboCad Pro
>> 14 and
>> it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to read it
>> before,
>> if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
>
> PDF is as close to a universal print format as you can get.
> If you have Acrobat, you can print your CAD drawing to that.
> If you don't have a pdf generator, goto
>
> http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
>
> and get CutePDF Writer. Be sure to read and follow
> the installation requirements. Theres a conversion
> utility you need too.
>
> I've used these for years with excellent performance.
> They're free for the downloading.
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Scott,
I feel a little inadequate to make any comments except that I am trying to
do the approximately the same thing you are (RV7 with Egg Subaru) and I
might as well go public with my questions now.
These are in no order of importance and are just my first questions after
looking over the drawing:
(I have sort of ignored the annunciator part of the diagram as I have not
thought much about how I might do those.)
1. The extra starter solenoid is required only because you will have a
little bitty pushbutton on the grip. I used to think that would be a good
idea so you didn't have to take your hand off the stick when starting but I
think with our automotive engines it probably is not a problem to reach for
a pushbutton on the panel. Egg manual notes that it is not necessary
(additional starter relay) unless you have a wimpy key switch or stick push
button like you plan. I have seen it suggested to put an "ARM" switch on
the panel so you are not inadvertently pushing the little button when the
engine is already running, etc. I "want badly" (for unknown reason) to have
an automotive style key switch to energize the starter but may finally go
with the panel mounted 20 amp push button.
2. As I understand the function of the LV Monitor module, it is wired up on
Z19RB to energize the Engine/AUX Battery Contactor (not the MAIN Battery
Contactor) but only when the Engine/Bat Off/On/Auto is in the AUTO position.
I think you need a switch like Bob depicts on Z19RB to accomplish this. As
you have it now the contactor will always be energized if you have your
switch in the up position (connected to ground) and the LV Monitor module
will do nothing.
2. (continued) I think I have decided that since we are adopting a somewhat
more manual system of switching batteries using the Egg recommended (Engine)
Bus Master Switch we can manually open the Main Battery Switch and close the
Aux/Engine Battery switch and not even worry about the LV Monitor module.
We would still want a "genius" light (as Bob calls them) to alert us when
the bus voltage drops below 13 Volts (or whatever his stuff recommends) so
we know the Alternator is off line.
3. I guess you are calling your Endurance Bus the Avionics Bus but it
appears to me that if you lose the Main bus ALL your avionics are without a
source of power. Notice that Bob has an Ebus Alt Feed switch that powers a
S-704-1 relay to feed the Endurance Bus (Avionics Bus in your case) from the
always hot Main Battery Bus. Similar to the way we use 4NT1-1 Engine Bus
Master switch select the "alternate feed" from the always hot side of the
AUX Battery.
4. One of the things I am wrestling with is how to power the engine
instruments (GRT EIS4000 in my case; AFS3500 EMS in yours) so ONLY it comes
on when the Engine Bus Master Switch is placed in either ON position. (To
check oil pressure light working and to see the oil pressure come up when
engine starts.) That may require an Avionics Switch/Relay since the starter
requires/prefers to have both Battery Contactors energized. Still thinking
about that issue.
So there; now I have exposed some of my ignorance for the world to see.
Keep talking, Scott.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Subaru E6Ti hanging
Working on wiring/avionics
Alexander City, AL
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On
>>>Behalf Of Scott
>>>R. Shook
>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:25 PM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with
>>>TurboCad Pro 14 and
>>>it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to
>>>read it before,
>>>if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
>>>
>>>Suggestions and critiques are welcome. It's only about 97%
>>>complete and the
>>>notes section is not incorporated yet.
>>>
>>>Notes:
>>>
>>>I have Bob's crowbar OV module incorporated into my
>>>electrical diagram to
>>>counter a runaway alternator.
>>>
>>>I did the 200ANL's for same reasons Gary from Eggenfellner
>>>pointed out in
>>>the Installation Manual. If you ever have a short along
>>>those fat wires,
>>>those ANL's will blow before big sparks start flying and
>>>fires start. If I
>>>recall correctly, Brian DeFord (here at CHD) lost his
>>>beautiful Cozy MK-IV
>>>to a chaffed fat wire coming from the battery. No detonating
>>>battery - just
>>>a chafed wire heated up and by the time he smelled the smoke (he was
>>>standing outside the plane) the fire was started and it
>>>burned his plane to
>>>the ground.
>>>
>>>As far as using the $40 4P3T Honeywell switch...That is
>>>another item that
>>>comes from Eggenfellner. As of March, Jan was discouraging
>>>the use of any
>>>diode bridge rectifiers to supply the emergency power to the
>>>ECU. In fact,
>>>I think it's now "not supported" because of an off field
>>>incident with an
>>>inadequate diode. I have to agree with this logic. Those Honeywell
>>>switches are pretty hard core and if you are not switching
>>>back and forth 10
>>>times every flight (limiting your testing to 50 or 100hr
>>>intervals) that
>>>switch will last quite a long time. Downside to this
>>>solution is that I
>>>have an 'always hot' connection running up to that switch
>>>behind the panel.
>>>I can live with that as long as the wire is marked as such.
>>>
>>>My annunciator is just a bunch of Stanley LED light bars mounted to a
>>>project board behind a reverse engraved acrylic. They are
>>>either powered on
>>>when a switch comes on or when a ground closes (e.g.
>>>alternator failure
>>>sense).
>>>
>>>Everything else is pretty basic - Klixon breakers, AML-34
>>>switches, OV
>>>Crowbar, low voltage warning. There are really only 2 power
>>>busses, main bus
>>>and avionics bus. The essential power for engine is through the
>>>aforementioned switch and comes either directly from the
>>>battery or the main
>>>bus - then to the switch - then to the breakers - then to
>>>the component.
>>>
>>>There is no voltage indication if have switched electrical
>>>feeds for the
>>>engine. My primary reason, if I have thrown that 4P3T
>>>switch - it means my
>>>alternator has failed 20 minutes ago and I have already
>>>drained my primary
>>>battery. I should have already found a suitable landing location.
>>>
>>>Scott R. Shook
>>>RV-7A (Building)
>>>N696JS (Reserved)
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>Sent: Tuesday, 06 May, 2008 09:10
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott,
>>> I did some review again yesterday and I believe you are on the
>>>right track. The two can compliment each other. Bob goes further in
>>>supporting additional equipment. I am basing my setup on
>>>Bob's model,
>>>but will use the starter, alternator bypass from Jan's
>>>drawing. I will
>>>not use the big 200A anl's between the battery. As Bob would
>>>point out
>>>the disconnect needs to come from the crowbar OV, not the battery. If
>>>Jan's model protects the battery but not the system you
>>>haven't gained
>>>anything. If the alternator is about to detonate the battery, you'd
>>>better catch it long before the ANL blows. If my system is doing
>>>anything but 13.7 - 14.5 Bob's model will let you know about it or
>>>respond to it. Under normal circumstances good monitoring far exceeds
>>>the value of waiting until the battery is overloaded or worse.
>>>
>>>When you look at what Bob has written and transpose it over
>>>Jan's model,
>>>they really accomplish the same goal. Jan is eliminating the starter
>>>contactor which I think has other advantages as far as
>>>wiring. Bob has
>>>added OV protection and notification of system variances
>>>which makes for
>>>better monitoring. Jan's model is sort of wiring for dummies. It will
>>>definitely work, but it's not a good solution for control
>>>freaks. Also,
>>>Jan likes that big expensive 4P3T 12 position switch which
>>>to me is just
>>>a big $$$ single point of failure. So when you break it down you can
>>>probably create the best of both by combining efforts.
>>>
>>> If you like we can be your peers! Attach a copy when you
>>>get a chance.
>>>
>>>Glenn Long
>>>Lancair Legacy FG
>>>N3UH
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Scott
>>>R. Shook
>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:30 PM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>--> <sshook@cox.net>
>>>
>>>For my Z19/Egg Hybrid wiring, I used all of Jan's recommendations for
>>>supplying electrical power to the engine ECU, prop, and fuel
>>>pumps. The
>>>Z19 part comes in with the other components in the electrical system.
>>>It's not totally complete, but if you want a look and have
>>>TurboCad or a
>>>DXF or DWG reader, I would be happy to send it.
>>>
>>>Disclaimer: I am not flying, and the drawing has not been
>>>peer reviewed
>>>yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott R. Shook
>>>RV-7A (Building)
>>>N696JS (Reserved)
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
>>>Behalf Of Allen
>>>Fulmer
>>>Sent: Monday, 05 May, 2008 09:29
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>><afulmer@charter.net>
>>>
>>>What kind of Subaru Glenn? I am trying to nail down my
>>>Z19RB/Eggenfellner Hybrid wiring diagram.
>>>
>>>Allen Fulmer
>>>RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall
>>>Wiring/Avionics
>>>Alexander City, AL 35010
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:06 AM
>>>>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob or someone who has already done this...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the
>>>>>>diagram does print clearly in terms of the switch number.
>>>Is that a
>>>>>>(2-10) or (2-11)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on
>>>instrument panel (G3)
>>>
>>>>>>do I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of
>>>my equipment
>>>
>>>>>>is close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why
>>>not use G3?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus
>>>feed relay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Glenn,
>>>>>>Subaru powered Lancair Legacy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do not archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Architecture Review |
The design for power to the engine was from what Eggenfellner is
recommending and supporting. Power comes from the main buss to the engine
through the 4P3T switch. The 4P3T switch is to counter an alternator, a
relay failure, or exhaustion of the main battery.
If my alternator goes south:
1) Fly the Plane
2) Isolate the aux battery (aux batt switch off)
3) Find a close airport to land at.
4) Reduce non-essential electrical loads (AP, Radio, etc.) - Note I will
still have AHRS as both EFIS screens are battery backed up and I have
handheld backups (ICOM and GPS).
5) If I have still not landed after 30 minutes on the main battery - with
the flip of the 4P3T switch I still have the Aux battery to supply power to
keep the prop turning.
Please understand: I will not take any criticism personally. I would not
have submitted this to the list had I not expected corrections.
I don't want God beating the FAA to the crash site. The more eyes the
better.
There are already two suggestions from off-list responses that I have had
that I will likely incorporate - Remove Avionics Mater - move the momentary
push to start to the panel.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, 08 May, 2008 07:47
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Architecture Review
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 06:55 AM 5/8/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>Attached is a pdf of the file.
Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Hmmm. Perhaps there was some form of thread-creep
but the attached drawing has no resemblance to
Z-19. I'll have to let the List members work
on this. It's so far from the best I know how
to do, distilling it down to the simple-ideas
would take a significant amount of time . . .
a commodity I don't have in abundance right
now. Sorry.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Z-19 Item Clarification |
FWIW you might consider that you simply don't have the oil pressure
issues that air cooled engines have with single grade oil. I run 5W50
synthetic and I pretty much ignore the oil pressure just like most car
drivers. If it doesn't come up or if it goes out of limits, the EIS will
bring it to my attention. The chances of a secondary failure where the
EIS would be helpful, at the same time as an alternator failure, have
got to to be very small. Keeping it simple has advantages. Do you really
care if the EIS works after an alternator failure? Will it help you fly
the airplane or just be a distraction?
Ken
Allen Fulmer wrote:
>snip
> 4. One of the things I am wrestling with is how to power the engine
> instruments (GRT EIS4000 in my case; AFS3500 EMS in yours) so ONLY it comes
> on when the Engine Bus Master Switch is placed in either ON position. (To
> check oil pressure light working and to see the oil pressure come up when
> engine starts.) That may require an Avionics Switch/Relay since the starter
> requires/prefers to have both Battery Contactors energized. Still thinking
> about that issue.
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Thanks Ken,
One of the reasons for turning on the EIS before starting the engine is to
make sure the oil pressure sensor DOES work like it is supposed to. But you
make a good point. Maybe the light could be checked when shutting DOWN the
engine before the EIS is turned OFF? Thoughts?
Allen
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken
>>>Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:03 PM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>FWIW you might consider that you simply don't have the oil pressure
>>>issues that air cooled engines have with single grade oil. I
>>>run 5W50
>>>synthetic and I pretty much ignore the oil pressure just
>>>like most car
>>>drivers. If it doesn't come up or if it goes out of limits,
>>>the EIS will
>>>bring it to my attention. The chances of a secondary failure
>>>where the
>>>EIS would be helpful, at the same time as an alternator
>>>failure, have
>>>got to to be very small. Keeping it simple has advantages.
>>>Do you really
>>>care if the EIS works after an alternator failure? Will it
>>>help you fly
>>>the airplane or just be a distraction?
>>>Ken
>>>
>>>Allen Fulmer wrote:
>>>>snip
>>>> 4. One of the things I am wrestling with is how to power the engine
>>>> instruments (GRT EIS4000 in my case; AFS3500 EMS in yours)
>>>so ONLY it comes
>>>> on when the Engine Bus Master Switch is placed in either
>>>ON position. (To
>>>> check oil pressure light working and to see the oil
>>>pressure come up when
>>>> engine starts.) That may require an Avionics Switch/Relay
>>>since the starter
>>>> requires/prefers to have both Battery Contactors
>>>energized. Still thinking
>>>> about that issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 AWG question |
At 11:31 AM 5/8/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings
>Referring to Z-13/8 diagram, the wire from the battery contactor to the
>main power distribution bus does not have a AWG callout. Would I be
>correct in assuming it should be 14 AWG (the same as battery contactor to
>the Main Battery Bus)
Yes, all wires in series with each other are generally the
same guage.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
Scott, I am the last person who should be talking about someone else's
electrical design....
But, I can see your reason for the 200ANLs in front of the batteries, but
you are also protecting the "B" lead of a 60A alternator with a 200ANL...are
you thinking that the alternator itself might somehow short to ground? I
think that ANL is to protect against a runaway alternator and if so, 60A is
all you need.
Also, is that low voltage module just supposed to turn on a light? I think
that relay is to automatically turn on your aux battery in case of low
voltage, if so, I think that the way you have it wired will turn your main
battery contactor back on when you turn it off??? I am willing to be wrong
about this as I speak electric only through an interpreter. :>)
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with TurboCad Pro 14 and
it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to read it before,
if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
Suggestions and critiques are welcome. It's only about 97% complete and the
notes section is not incorporated yet.
Notes:
I have Bob's crowbar OV module incorporated into my electrical diagram to
counter a runaway alternator.
I did the 200ANL's for same reasons Gary from Eggenfellner pointed out in
the Installation Manual. If you ever have a short along those fat wires,
those ANL's will blow before big sparks start flying and fires start. If I
recall correctly, Brian DeFord (here at CHD) lost his beautiful Cozy MK-IV
to a chaffed fat wire coming from the battery. No detonating battery - just
a chafed wire heated up and by the time he smelled the smoke (he was
standing outside the plane) the fire was started and it burned his plane to
the ground.
As far as using the $40 4P3T Honeywell switch...That is another item that
comes from Eggenfellner. As of March, Jan was discouraging the use of any
diode bridge rectifiers to supply the emergency power to the ECU. In fact,
I think it's now "not supported" because of an off field incident with an
inadequate diode. I have to agree with this logic. Those Honeywell
switches are pretty hard core and if you are not switching back and forth 10
times every flight (limiting your testing to 50 or 100hr intervals) that
switch will last quite a long time. Downside to this solution is that I
have an 'always hot' connection running up to that switch behind the panel.
I can live with that as long as the wire is marked as such.
My annunciator is just a bunch of Stanley LED light bars mounted to a
project board behind a reverse engraved acrylic. They are either powered on
when a switch comes on or when a ground closes (e.g. alternator failure
sense).
Everything else is pretty basic - Klixon breakers, AML-34 switches, OV
Crowbar, low voltage warning. There are really only 2 power busses, main bus
and avionics bus. The essential power for engine is through the
aforementioned switch and comes either directly from the battery or the main
bus - then to the switch - then to the breakers - then to the component.
There is no voltage indication if have switched electrical feeds for the
engine. My primary reason, if I have thrown that 4P3T switch - it means my
alternator has failed 20 minutes ago and I have already drained my primary
battery. I should have already found a suitable landing location.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Tuesday, 06 May, 2008 09:10
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Scott,
I did some review again yesterday and I believe you are on the right
track. The two can compliment each other. Bob goes further in supporting
additional equipment. I am basing my setup on Bob's model, but will use the
starter, alternator bypass from Jan's drawing. I will not use the big 200A
anl's between the battery. As Bob would point out the disconnect needs to
come from the crowbar OV, not the battery. If Jan's model protects the
battery but not the system you haven't gained anything. If the alternator is
about to detonate the battery, you'd better catch it long before the ANL
blows. If my system is doing anything but 13.7 - 14.5 Bob's model will let
you know about it or respond to it. Under normal circumstances good
monitoring far exceeds the value of waiting until the battery is overloaded
or worse.
When you look at what Bob has written and transpose it over Jan's model,
they really accomplish the same goal. Jan is eliminating the starter
contactor which I think has other advantages as far as wiring. Bob has added
OV protection and notification of system variances which makes for better
monitoring. Jan's model is sort of wiring for dummies. It will definitely
work, but it's not a good solution for control freaks. Also, Jan likes that
big expensive 4P3T 12 position switch which to me is just a big $$$ single
point of failure. So when you break it down you can probably create the best
of both by combining efforts.
If you like we can be your peers! Attach a copy when you get a chance.
Glenn Long
Lancair Legacy FG
N3UH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
--> <sshook@cox.net>
For my Z19/Egg Hybrid wiring, I used all of Jan's recommendations for
supplying electrical power to the engine ECU, prop, and fuel pumps. The
Z19 part comes in with the other components in the electrical system.
It's not totally complete, but if you want a look and have TurboCad or a DXF
or DWG reader, I would be happy to send it.
Disclaimer: I am not flying, and the drawing has not been peer reviewed
yet.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Fulmer
Sent: Monday, 05 May, 2008 09:29
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
<afulmer@charter.net>
What kind of Subaru Glenn? I am trying to nail down my Z19RB/Eggenfellner
Hybrid wiring diagram.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall
Wiring/Avionics
Alexander City, AL 35010
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:06 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob or someone who has already done this...
>>>
>>>1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the
>>>diagram does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a
>>>(2-10) or (2-11)?
>>>
>>>
>>>2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3)
>>>do I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment
>>>is close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3?
>>>
>>>3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Glenn,
>>>Subaru powered Lancair Legacy
>>>
>>>Do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Z-19 Item Clarification |
I see what you are saying. I was under the impression that the low voltage
module was to measure and warn of low voltage only. I was not aware that
activating the contactor was a function. If that is the case, you are
correct - I would not be able to isolate the Main Battery.
This is precisely the reason I am asking for reviews.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Bradburry
Sent: Thursday, 08 May, 2008 15:39
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
<bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
Scott, I am the last person who should be talking about someone else's
electrical design....
But, I can see your reason for the 200ANLs in front of the batteries, but
you are also protecting the "B" lead of a 60A alternator with a 200ANL...are
you thinking that the alternator itself might somehow short to ground? I
think that ANL is to protect against a runaway alternator and if so, 60A is
all you need.
Also, is that low voltage module just supposed to turn on a light? I think
that relay is to automatically turn on your aux battery in case of low
voltage, if so, I think that the way you have it wired will turn your main
battery contactor back on when you turn it off??? I am willing to be wrong
about this as I speak electric only through an interpreter. :>)
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
I have attached my electrical diagram. It was made with TurboCad Pro 14 and
it's a .DWG. There was some issues getting some people to read it before,
if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.
Suggestions and critiques are welcome. It's only about 97% complete and the
notes section is not incorporated yet.
Notes:
I have Bob's crowbar OV module incorporated into my electrical diagram to
counter a runaway alternator.
I did the 200ANL's for same reasons Gary from Eggenfellner pointed out in
the Installation Manual. If you ever have a short along those fat wires,
those ANL's will blow before big sparks start flying and fires start. If I
recall correctly, Brian DeFord (here at CHD) lost his beautiful Cozy MK-IV
to a chaffed fat wire coming from the battery. No detonating battery - just
a chafed wire heated up and by the time he smelled the smoke (he was
standing outside the plane) the fire was started and it burned his plane to
the ground.
As far as using the $40 4P3T Honeywell switch...That is another item that
comes from Eggenfellner. As of March, Jan was discouraging the use of any
diode bridge rectifiers to supply the emergency power to the ECU. In fact,
I think it's now "not supported" because of an off field incident with an
inadequate diode. I have to agree with this logic. Those Honeywell
switches are pretty hard core and if you are not switching back and forth 10
times every flight (limiting your testing to 50 or 100hr intervals) that
switch will last quite a long time. Downside to this solution is that I
have an 'always hot' connection running up to that switch behind the panel.
I can live with that as long as the wire is marked as such.
My annunciator is just a bunch of Stanley LED light bars mounted to a
project board behind a reverse engraved acrylic. They are either powered on
when a switch comes on or when a ground closes (e.g. alternator failure
sense).
Everything else is pretty basic - Klixon breakers, AML-34 switches, OV
Crowbar, low voltage warning. There are really only 2 power busses, main bus
and avionics bus. The essential power for engine is through the
aforementioned switch and comes either directly from the battery or the main
bus - then to the switch - then to the breakers - then to the component.
There is no voltage indication if have switched electrical feeds for the
engine. My primary reason, if I have thrown that 4P3T switch - it means my
alternator has failed 20 minutes ago and I have already drained my primary
battery. I should have already found a suitable landing location.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Tuesday, 06 May, 2008 09:10
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
Scott,
I did some review again yesterday and I believe you are on the right
track. The two can compliment each other. Bob goes further in supporting
additional equipment. I am basing my setup on Bob's model, but will use the
starter, alternator bypass from Jan's drawing. I will not use the big 200A
anl's between the battery. As Bob would point out the disconnect needs to
come from the crowbar OV, not the battery. If Jan's model protects the
battery but not the system you haven't gained anything. If the alternator is
about to detonate the battery, you'd better catch it long before the ANL
blows. If my system is doing anything but 13.7 - 14.5 Bob's model will let
you know about it or respond to it. Under normal circumstances good
monitoring far exceeds the value of waiting until the battery is overloaded
or worse.
When you look at what Bob has written and transpose it over Jan's model,
they really accomplish the same goal. Jan is eliminating the starter
contactor which I think has other advantages as far as wiring. Bob has added
OV protection and notification of system variances which makes for better
monitoring. Jan's model is sort of wiring for dummies. It will definitely
work, but it's not a good solution for control freaks. Also, Jan likes that
big expensive 4P3T 12 position switch which to me is just a big $$$ single
point of failure. So when you break it down you can probably create the best
of both by combining efforts.
If you like we can be your peers! Attach a copy when you get a chance.
Glenn Long
Lancair Legacy FG
N3UH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott R.
Shook
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
--> <sshook@cox.net>
For my Z19/Egg Hybrid wiring, I used all of Jan's recommendations for
supplying electrical power to the engine ECU, prop, and fuel pumps. The
Z19 part comes in with the other components in the electrical system.
It's not totally complete, but if you want a look and have TurboCad or a DXF
or DWG reader, I would be happy to send it.
Disclaimer: I am not flying, and the drawing has not been peer reviewed
yet.
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Fulmer
Sent: Monday, 05 May, 2008 09:29
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
<afulmer@charter.net>
What kind of Subaru Glenn? I am trying to nail down my Z19RB/Eggenfellner
Hybrid wiring diagram.
Allen Fulmer
RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall
Wiring/Avionics
Alexander City, AL 35010
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>>longg@pjm.com
>>>Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:06 AM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob or someone who has already done this...
>>>
>>>1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the
>>>diagram does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a
>>>(2-10) or (2-11)?
>>>
>>>
>>>2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3)
>>>do I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment
>>>is close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3?
>>>
>>>3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Glenn,
>>>Subaru powered Lancair Legacy
>>>
>>>Do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Z-19 Item Clarification |
Allen
My EIS comes on any time the master switch is on so it is on before
startup. However I elected not to provide any other power source for it
so it does go dead if I turn off the master switch.
The warning light flashes for everything outside of spec which means you
can cancel them one at a time to confirm they are working. However I
normally just start the engine which removes all the warnings except low
coolant pressure.
At shutdown the warnings come back on for low voltage and low oil
pressure which can again be canceled one at a time as you suggest.
However if the oil pressure indicated normal at any time while the
engine was running, it is very unlikely that the low pressure warning
will not work from the EIS. You can also set the low oil pressure
warning such that it will come on at slow idle just before shutdown (if
the oil is up to temperature). In my case I also wired a small light to
the low pressure switch that was already installed in my stock engine.
The engine is my own conversion and I run a modified Z-14 architecture
with two small alternators and two very small 8AH batteries. The system
actually weighs less than many single alternator single battery
installations.
Ken
Allen Fulmer wrote:
>
> Thanks Ken,
>
> One of the reasons for turning on the EIS before starting the engine is to
> make sure the oil pressure sensor DOES work like it is supposed to. But you
> make a good point. Maybe the light could be checked when shutting DOWN the
> engine before the EIS is turned OFF? Thoughts?
>
> Allen
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:03 PM
>>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 Item Clarification
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FWIW you might consider that you simply don't have the oil pressure
>>>> issues that air cooled engines have with single grade oil. I
>>>> run 5W50
>>>> synthetic and I pretty much ignore the oil pressure just
>>>> like most car
>>>> drivers. If it doesn't come up or if it goes out of limits,
>>>> the EIS will
>>>> bring it to my attention. The chances of a secondary failure
>>>> where the
>>>> EIS would be helpful, at the same time as an alternator
>>>> failure, have
>>>> got to to be very small. Keeping it simple has advantages.
>>>> Do you really
>>>> care if the EIS works after an alternator failure? Will it
>>>> help you fly
>>>> the airplane or just be a distraction?
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> Allen Fulmer wrote:
>>>>> snip
>>>>> 4. One of the things I am wrestling with is how to power the engine
>>>>> instruments (GRT EIS4000 in my case; AFS3500 EMS in yours)
>>>> so ONLY it comes
>>>>> on when the Engine Bus Master Switch is placed in either
>>>> ON position. (To
>>>>> check oil pressure light working and to see the oil
>>>> pressure come up when
>>>>> engine starts.) That may require an Avionics Switch/Relay
>>>> since the starter
>>>>> requires/prefers to have both Battery Contactors
>>>> energized. Still thinking
>>>>> about that issue.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
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