---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/27/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:23 AM - Re: Z-19 hypothetical question () 2. 08:37 AM - Re: Question about wire sizes (RALPH HOOVER) 3. 01:12 PM - Re: Off Topic? Scratch build your own autopilot (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 03:16 PM - AEC9011 OV/LV-Warning (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Z-19 hypothetical question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:06 PM - Harbor Freight 93258 charger evaluation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 hypothetical question From: Bob, Let me know if you need another mule to test the below. I am very interested (no, make that a must have) in dual battery monitoring. A quick google turns up a few options. High tech job. http://store.solar-electric.com/xalidubamo.html Gizmo. http://www.piranhaoffroad.com.au/products/dualbattery/dualbatteryinfo_ac cessories.htm Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 hypothetical question --> P.S. A product under development . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1C.pdf has two channels of LOW Voltage warning. The second specifically intended to watch the aux battery for failure of contactor or failure of pilot to close said contactor. I don't think I'd put a low voltage warning in just for that purpose but in this case, it was about a 7% increase in parts count to add the feature to an existing design. Just some additional food for thought. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:15 AM PST US From: "RALPH HOOVER" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about wire sizes Les, The 14-18 is in fact a range. You could use 14-18 on 18 ga or 16-18 on 18 ga wire. Amp has too many combinations to count but with a little digging you can find a combination of parts that will do what you need. I have attached a link to contact info and a couple of PDF's that may help. Pages 398 to 405 of the current digikey catalog may help as well. http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/bin/TE.Connect?C=1 &M=BYPN&TCPN=66360-1&RQPN=66360-1 http://ecommas.tycoelectronics.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?A ction=showdoc&DocId=Catalog+Page%7F65910_0806_PrecisionPinSockCntcts%7Fn%2Fa %7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_CAT_65910_0806_PrecisionPinSockCntcts_.pdf Ralph _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:22 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about wire sizes Dale To clarify, why couldn't I use the 14-18ga pins for the 18ga wire? Do the pins fit a specific gauge or a range of gauges? If not a range, then what does 14-18ga mean versus 16-18ga? Thanks Les _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing Sent: May-26-08 8:19 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about wire sizes Les, The nomenclature pertains to the wire gauge to be used with the various pins not the pins themselves. If is says it is 16-18ga., then that is the wire size to be used with that pin. In your case you would use pins marked for 16-18ga.for your 18ga. wire. If you look at the pins you will see that the pins for the larger wire gauges (wires with smaller numbers) have a larger hole in which the wire is inserted and crimped than pins marked for smaller sizes (wires with larger numbers). This is to assure that you get the proper air tight crimp on the wire. You will discover that is almost impossible to get a good crimp on a small wire if you use a pin marked for a larger size wire. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Kearney Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Question about wire sizes Hi I am trying to get smart about wiring in my a/c. II understand wire gauge sizes but am a bit confused about the wire gauge references on connectors. For example, AMP CPC connectors can take various pin sizes - 24-26ga, 20-24ga, 14-18ga and 16-18ga. Can someone explain the differences between each pin size? If I was using 18ga wire, which pin size would be appropriate? Inquiring minds need to know.. Les Kearney _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: May-26-08 4:40 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Off Topic? Scratch build your own autopilot FYI - I have a very unusual auction going on Ebay for a scratch-build autopilot, and a story that goes with it. Here's the auction link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=190225235720 If that doesn't work just plug 190225235720 into the Ebay search box. Sorry for the shameless plug. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:13 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Off Topic? Scratch build your own autopilot At 06:03 PM 5/26/2008 -0500, you wrote: > > >Sam Hoskins wrote: >>FYI - I have a very unusual auction going on Ebay for a scratch-build >>autopilot, and a story that goes with it. Here's the auction link: >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190225235720 >> >> >>If that doesn't work just plug 190225235720 into the Ebay search box. >> >>Sorry for the shameless plug. >> >>Sam Hoskins >>Murphysboro, IL > >Hey Sam, >I actually have one those that came out of a T-18 (wrecked in a storm) and >there's another in a homebuilt of pre-WW-II Philippine origin here on my >home field. > >Unfortunately, I can't find the docs for it. How much to scan & email the >docs? I think I have a set of the plans. They were offered in a series of articles in Sport Aviation. If I get time I'll scan them and post to the website. Actually, these have more historical value than practical. Nowadays, one might use a piezo rotational-rate sensor as opposed to building the fluid-jet device that Doug concocted. But the fluid-jet rate sensor has a certain elegance of thought behind it that I find fascinating. Further, while Doug offered a means by which one could craft a DIY flux-gate magnetometer to derive magnetic heading, I think I would opt for getting true or magnetic course off a GPS engine. Having said all that, it's interesting to peer into the mind of Doug Garner. I had the pleasure of conversation with him over several years attendance at OSH. He possessed one of those rare intellects that could sift through piles of simple-ideas and past recipes for success to come up with new and better ways to do it . . . or techniques that can be accomplished in a hobbyist's electronics shop. A true teacher. I just found the folder where I'd stored Doug's work and discovered that it also contains a data package by a Mr. Don Hewes who also did a manual on home built a/p systems. Don references Doug's work and offers some interesting variations on a theme tailored to tools, materials and techniques available to us about 1980 when this work was getting started. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:43 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: AEC9011 OV/LV-Warning At 10:16 AM 5/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob, >Let me know if you need another mule to test the below. I am very >interested (no, make that a must have) in dual battery monitoring. A >quick google turns up a few options. I do have one system installed on a YAK . . . I presume the outcome was satisfactory. No negative feedback and numerous inquiries from other interested customers. I think we're ready to rock-n-roll pending allocation of $time$ toward that task. >High tech job. >http://store.solar-electric.com/xalidubamo.html > >Gizmo. >http://www.piranhaoffroad.com.au/products/dualbattery/dualbatteryinfo_ac >cessories.htm Hmmm . . . pricey little buggers . . . The 9011 is designed first to be OV protection for generators but adaptable to alternators. Second, LV warning for the main bus and third, LV warning for an aux battery. All three functions in one box for about $50. One may pick any combination of the three functions to operate independently of each other. I just got home from Medicine Lodge, KS. Had a meeting with my family's banker and CPA about setting up an LLC under which I plan to operate the AeroElectric Connection publications, a line of products for OBAM aircraft (business name to be determined), my son's locksmith activities along with his HVAC services, my consulting services, and a sort of "how can we help you" handy-man service backed up with a great wood working shop. The kids are going down tonight to tour some available house with a real estate agent. We're 99% sure that the whole family will be moved to ML before the end of the year, 95% sure before the end of the summer. Once I have a mechanism in place to hire help and take care of government's penchant for ham-fisted-filching of citizen's property, I'll get the 9011 and a number of new products into production with a goal of turning all but consulting business over to the kids. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:45 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-19 hypothetical question At 08:31 AM 5/26/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Hey Bob, were you referring to me as joe-pilot? LOL > >Ok, to keep me from stubbing my toe, how about the attached schematic? It >features circuit breakers within reach of the pilot, dual alternate feed >for the essential bus, relays to isolate power from the cockpit, one power >wire between engine compartment and essential bus with fusible links to >protect it. > >Any suggestions, comments, or improvements are welcome. > >Joe Gores I'm having trouble putting my arms around the rationale for the double alternate e-bus feeds. The original design goal for dual batteries under Z-19 was to make sure the LAST piece of equipment on board to loose power after alternator failure was the engine. Further, with the double-alternate feed scheme you seem to be worrying about double failure . . . alternator followed by a failure of your non-engine battery to carry e-bus loads. For the first 25% or so of capacitor discharge, voltage falls at the approximate rate of: Volts/Second = Amps/Farad Assuming a 4A bus, then 4A/.05F yields a rate of 80 volts/second. If your hoping to keep the e-bus at say 10v or above, then starting with a fresh battery (12.5 v) you can tolerate a drop of 2.5 volts during transition. At 80 volts/second decay, you can tolerate an open supply line for 2.5/80.0 or 32 milliseconds. Hmmm . . . you can probably get the transition over with in that time. But suppose you're switching from a discharged battery at 10.5 volts. Now the capacitor starts at 10.5 and transition has to be completed in 0.5v/80vps or 6 milliseconds. This exercise illustrates why we don't attempt these kinds of things in the big iron birds. Every piece of equipment we install is qualified to make graceful recoveries from total loss of power during switch or relay transitions. Let's revisit Z-19 as published and you tell us what failure mode is not addressed. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:38 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight 93258 charger evaluation Got over to HF late last week and picked up a couple of the latest and cheapest chargers. The first one I had a chance to evaluate was the 93258, 1.5 "on board" charger. Here's the recharge profile I recorded . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery_Chargers/HF_Chargers/HF93258_1.jpg This is a bit of a pig for 1.5A charger. Probably wouldn't want to mount it on your airplane. However, it is nicely built and would probably be just fine for wheel or water- borne vehicles. It's NOT a battery maintainer. No top-off dwell. Further, it oscillates between about 13.0 volts and 14.0 volts with relatively short busts of input energy necessary to push the battery terminal voltage back up to 14.0 volts. An excellent buy at $13.00 but not the best we know how to do with maintainers. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.