Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:42 AM - As it's quiet right now, can I check a few things...... (ianwilson2)
2. 12:15 PM - Re: As it's quiet right now, can I check a few things...... (Ron Shannon)
3. 01:54 PM - Gruber batteries (Dennis Jones)
4. 03:56 PM - Re: Gruber batteries (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
5. 03:59 PM - SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice (Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.)
6. 04:33 PM - Re: Gruber batteries (S. Ramirez)
7. 09:25 PM - Alternator switch/breaker wiring (Steve Johnson)
8. 10:50 PM - Batteries (Dennis Jones)
9. 11:10 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
10. 11:13 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | As it's quiet right now, can I check a few things...... |
I'm working on a version of Z-20 for my Jab/X-Air and as I'm an electrical newbie
I wanted to run a couple of things by the group to check that I'm staying on
track:-
On the Power Master Switch am I right in thinking that the 2-10 has it's first
ON for just the battery and the second ON for Battery + Alternator?
Also, in the Z Figures, where there is no recommended wire size for the ground
wire what should I do? For example from the ALT OV Disconnect Relay to FWL G2
and also from the Crowbar Over Voltage module to PNL G3? I'm guessing that for
all of the rest I'd just use the same AWG size as I use from the main bus?
Many thanks in advance.
Ian Wilson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185722#185722
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: As it's quiet right now, can I check a few things...... |
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 10:33 AM, ianwilson2 <ianwilson2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> On the Power Master Switch am I right in thinking that the 2-10 has it's
> first ON for just the battery and the second ON for Battery + Alternator?
Correct.
> Also, in the Z Figures, where there is no recommended wire size for the
> ground wire what should I do? For example from the ALT OV Disconnect Relay
> to FWL G2 and also from the Crowbar Over Voltage module to PNL G3? I'm
> guessing that for all of the rest I'd just use the same AWG size as I use
> from the main bus?
>
You're on the right track. In general, the downstream ground side of any
device should have the same wire size as the positive input side. In
general, the theory is that there will be as much current downstream of the
device as goes into it. So yes, on the Z-20 ALT OV ground use 22 AWG, same
as spec'd on the input to the relay coil.
On the crowbar ground, use the same 22 AWG. Why? Well, another (sort of
backwards) way to check your wire size is to look at the specified
breaker/fuse on the circuit, if there is one. Here, your ALT OV relay is
protected by a 5A breaker and the crowbar is designed to trip that breaker
when there's over voltage, thus de-energizing the relay coil and
disconnecting the ALT. Because the breaker is there to protect wire from
smoking and breaking, leading to shorts, sparks, etc., your wire size should
carry more than the breaker or fuse. The 5A breaker will trip before 22 AWG
will fry.
To sum up, if your device draws 3A, you'll probably want a 5A breaker (next
size up) and at least 22 AWG wire. (There's never an electrical problem
using bigger wire than necessary -- "just" the weight penalty.)
Ron
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Subject: | Gruber batteries |
http://www.gruberpower.com/gruberpower/advertising/batteries/cutsheets/58
-pc-680.asp
Could this work as the same as the odyssey PC-680? It appears to be more
amp hours and CCA,same size and weight and helps out on the pocket book.
I can't find out if it is a RG type.It appears that it will fly upside
down for those so inclined.
Jonsey
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Gruber batteries |
Good call. I think you are really on to something. Not withstanding Gruber calls
this battery the pc 680 too, their specs pretty much prove one is trying
to be a direct replacement for the other. They are both AGM type and physically
pretty much identical. Here's Gruber's specs:
Equivalent to:
UB22-12NE
Gruber Part Number
58-GPS-22-12NE
Electrical Specifications
StyleVoltageAmp/HourAmp/Hour
AGM12 Volt22 AH420 Amps
Dimensions
LengthWidthHeightWeight
7.00"3.00"6.60"14 lb
ChemistrySLA
The state-of-the-art lead-acid battery is the valve-regulated type (sometimes called
"sealed" or maintenance-free), which fixes the acid electrolyte in a gel
or in an absorptive fiberglass mat. The advantage of this design is that the
battery needs no water additions, can be operated in any position, and can be
used in close proximity to people and sensitive equipment. Additional benefits:
maintenance-free,sealed no-leak design, higher cranking amps, lower self-discharge,
greater vibration resistance, heavy duty, no-corrosion terminals
and here's Odysseys: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680.htm
PC 680 Specs:
680 cranking amps for 5 seconds
595 cranking amps for 10 seconds
525 cranking amps for 20 seconds
17 amp hours
Short circuit current over 1800A
25 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load
Female brass terminal w/M6 SS bolt
Length 7 1/16"
Width 3"
Height 6 9/16"
Weighs less than 15 lbs
Odyssey design:
2 year full warranty
Rugged Drycell sealed design
Military grade
Vibration resistant
60% more starting power
Deep discharge reserve power
2 year storage life
8-12 year design life
Can be mounted flat or upright
The Odyssey pc 680 is a AGM battery. From their FQT web page:
Are these gel cells?
No, the ODYSSEY is NOT a gel cell. It is an absorbed electrolyte type
battery, meaning there is no free acid inside the battery; all the acid is
kept absorbed in the glass mat separators. These separators serve to
keep the positive and negative plates apart.
What is the difference between gel cell and AGM?
The key difference between the gel cell and the absorbed glass mat
(AGM) is that in the AGM cell all the electrolyte is in the separator,
whereas in the gel cell the acid is in the cells in a gel form. If the
ODYSSEY battery were to split open, there would be no acid spillage!
That is why we call the ODYSSEY a Drycell battery
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones@northboone.net>
http://www.gruberpower.com/gruberpower/advertising/batteries/cutsheets/58-pc-680.asp
Could this work as the same as the odyssey PC-680? It appears to be more amp hours
and CCA,same size and weight and helps out on the pocket book. I can't find
out if it is a RG type.It appears that it will fly upside down for those so
inclined.
Jonsey
<html><body>
<DIV>Good call. I think you are really on to something. Not withstanding
Gruber calls this battery the pc 680 too, their specs pretty much
prove one is trying to be a direct replacement for the other. They are both
AGM type and physically pretty much identical. Here's Gruber's specs:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=392 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#b5caa6 colSpan=4 height=15>
<P align=center><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana color=#3f3f3f>Equivalent
to:</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 colSpan=4 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>UB22-12NE</FONT></B></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#b5caa6 colSpan=4 height=15>
<P align=center><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana color=#3f3f3f>Gruber
Part Number</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 colSpan=4 height=15><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2><B>58-GPS-22-12NE</B></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#b5caa6 colSpan=4 height=15>
<P align=center><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana color=#3f3f3f>Electrical
Specifications</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Style</FONT></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Voltage</FONT></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Amp/Hour</FONT></TD><B>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Amp/Hour</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>AGM</FONT></B></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>12 Volt</FONT></B></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>22 AH</FONT></B></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>420 Amps</FONT></B></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#b5caa6 colSpan=4 height=15>
<P align=center><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana color=#3f3f3f>Dimensions</FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Length</FONT></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Width</FONT></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Height</FONT></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" face=Verdana
color=#3f3f3f>Weight</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>7.00"</FONT></B></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>3.00"</FONT></B></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>6.60"</FONT></B></TD>
<TD align=middle bgColor=#e7dfc2 height=15><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#611818
size=2>14 lb</FONT></B></TD></TR></B></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR bgColor=#eeeeee>
<TD><SPAN class=style3>Chemistry</SPAN></TD>
<TD><SPAN class=style3>SLA</SPAN></TD></TR>
<TR bgColor=#eeeeee>
<TD colSpan=2><SPAN class=style3>
<HR>
The state-of-the-art lead-acid battery is the valve-regulated type (sometimes called
"sealed" or maintenance-free), which fixes the acid electrolyte in a gel
or in an absorptive fiberglass mat. The advantage of this design is that the
battery needs no water additions, can be operated in any position, and can be
used in close proximity to people and sensitive equipment. Additional benefits:
maintenance-free,sealed no-leak design, higher cranking amps, lower self-discharge,
greater vibration resistance, heavy duty, no-corrosion terminals</SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>and here's Odysseys: <A href="http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680.htm">http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>PC 680 Specs:</STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>
<UL>
<LI>680 cranking amps for 5 seconds
<LI>595 cranking amps for 10 seconds
<LI>525 cranking amps for 20 seconds
<LI>17 amp hours
<LI>Short circuit current over 1800A
<LI>25 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load
<LI><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Female brass terminal w/M6 SS bolt</FONT>
<LI>Length 7 1/16"
<LI>Width 3"
<LI>Height 6 9/16"
<LI>Weighs less than 15 lbs </LI></UL>
<P> </P>
<P><STRONG>Odyssey design:</STRONG> </P>
<UL>
<LI>2 year full warranty
<LI>Rugged Drycell sealed design
<LI>Military grade
<LI>Vibration resistant
<LI>60% more starting power
<LI>Deep discharge reserve power
<LI>2 year storage life
<LI>8-12 year design life
<LI>Can be mounted flat or upright</LI></UL></DIV>
<DIV>The Odyssey pc 680 is a AGM battery. From their FQT web page:</DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Univers-Bold size=1>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>Are these gel cells?</FONT></P></B></FONT><I><FONT face=Univers-Oblique>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>No, the ODYSSEY is NOT a gel cell. It is an absorbed
electrolyte type</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>battery, meaning there is no free acid inside the battery;
all the acid is</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>kept absorbed in the glass mat separators. These separators
serve to</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>keep the positive and negative plates apart.</FONT></P></I></FONT><B><FONT
face=Univers-Bold>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>What is the difference between gel cell and AGM?</FONT></P></B></FONT><I><FONT
face=Univers-Oblique size=1>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>The key difference between the gel cell and the absorbed
glass mat</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>(AGM) is that in the AGM cell all the electrolyte is
in the separator,</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>whereas in the gel cell the acid is in the cells in
a gel form. If the</FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4>ODYSSEY battery were to split open, there would be no
acid spillage!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=4>That is why we call the ODYSSEY a Drycell battery</FONT></P></I></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Dennis Jones"
<djones@northboone.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.gruberpower.com/gruberpower/advertising/batteries/cutsheets/58-pc-680.asp">http://www.gruberpower.com/gruberpower/advertising/batteries/cutsheets/58-pc-680.asp</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Could this work as the same as the odyssey PC-680?
It appears to be more amp hours and CCA,same size and weight and helps out on
the pocket book. I can't find out if it is a RG type.It appears that it will
fly upside down for those so inclined.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jonsey</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier"
size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 5
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Subject: | SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice |
Although I already should have known, I was recently reminded that, as a
permanent magnet device, the SD-8 standby alternator is producing output
whenever it is rotating.
Looking on the B&C website, I determined that the PMR1C regulator is a
heat sink for the 100-120 watts produced when the alternator is not
delivering current to the endurance bus.
So Question #1 is whether the SD-8 is "wearing" to a greater extent than
the SD-20 since it is producing rated load all the time one is operating
the engine at cruise rpm?
If Question #1 is yes, then Question #2 is: Does the fact that the SD-8
is producing output and wearing all the time make it more likely to be
an electrical noise source or more likely to become an electrical noise
source (at an earlier time in its life cycle) than the SD-20?
Although I most likely don't need 20A backup capability for my endurance
bus, I would like to minimize any electrical noise potential.
Thanks in advance to those who are more knowledgeable than this
electrically challenged mech. engr.
Larry
Message 6
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Subject: | Gruber batteries |
Dennis, it's probably comparable to the Odyssey PC-680, i.e., same size,
weight and performance specs. It may or may not be comparable in service
life due to internal construction and materials used. The best way to
determine this is for enough of us to use it and report back. In the
circles I run in, the Odyssey PC-680 is an incredible battery that provides
excellent performance and provides long service life. It uses virgin lead
and great quality control to accomplish this. I myself use the PC-925L,
which is a bigger battery, to crank over my O-320 and provide longer battery
life in case of engine/alternator out. It is one heck of a battery. It
replaced a Concord CB-25 and there is absolutely no comparison.
I'm not putting down the Gruber Power or any other vendor. If anyone has
great testimony or experience with them, please speak up. We can always use
excellent products to help us all choose better products. All I'm saying
above is that Odyssey is a known good vendor and great product, but no one
really knows anything about the Gruber unless someone speaks up.
Simon
Copyright C 2008
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis
Jones
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 4:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Gruber batteries
http://www.gruberpower.com/gruberpower/advertising/batteries/cutsheets/58-pc
-680.asp
Could this work as the same as the odyssey PC-680? It appears to be more amp
hours and CCA,same size and weight and helps out on the pocket book. I can't
find out if it is a RG type.It appears that it will fly upside down for
those so inclined.
Jonsey
Message 7
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Subject: | Alternator switch/breaker wiring |
I am in the process of wiring my Plane Power alternator and I am wondering of it
matters in what sequence the 5 amp breaker and the switch are placed.
I currently have the field wire from the alternator connected to the breaker,
then the breaker to the switch (DPDT), then to the bus, as I believe is shown
on drawing Z-11
ALT FIELD-BREAKER-SWITCH-BUS
The Plane Power schematic shows the field wire connected to the switch, then
the switch to the breaker, then to the bus.
ALT FIELD-SWITCH-BREAKER-BUS
Does it matter from a practical and safety standpoint?
Thanks.
Ward Morris
Message 8
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O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide selection. For example
FAYTX20 18AH 270CCA 11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL 21AH
350CCA 14 lbs. $132.95. Unless Interstate batteries are junk these batt.
numbers smoke an Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH and over 50%
increase in CCA for the same weight and approximately the same price. Or
have a little more power and save over 25% in weight plus your pocket
book. There about the same size overall compared with each other and the
other types including the Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across
town buy the thing and if you have problems you go back and talk to them
in person. No internet return headaches.
Jonsey
Message 9
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Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.
The
complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
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subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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