---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/04/08: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: Ring terminal (Bill Bradburry) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: Alternator switch/breaker wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:49 AM - Re: Bob's LLC (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:49 AM - Re: Bridge Diodes use (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:50 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/03/08 (glen matejcek) 6. 06:55 AM - Re: Testing SD-8 Circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:42 AM - Re: Bridge Diodes use (Jeffrey Skiba) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: As it's quiet right now, can I check a few things...... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:39 AM - Re: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 08:59 AM - Re: Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 09:27 AM - Re: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 10:05 AM - Re: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 11:56 AM - Re: Ring terminal (D Wysong) 14. 12:06 PM - Re: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 12:10 PM - Re: SD-8 noise issues (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: Ring terminal (Dennis Jones) 17. 07:25 PM - Re: Bridge Diodes use (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 08:12 PM - Re: Testing SD-8 Circuit (rockyjs) 19. 09:05 PM - Batteries (fiveonepw@aol.com) 20. 09:56 PM - SlilckStart Troubleshooting (Dave Saylor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:21 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal Cut a slice off a copper pipe about a =BD inch long. Squeeze it down onto the wire into the shape of a flag, drill a hole for the bolt, and solder it on the wire. Bill B _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Jones Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:51 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ring terminal I need to find a ring terminal for the starter such that the #2 wire comes off at a 90 degree angle. Any ideas/help. Jonsey ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator switch/breaker wiring At 09:17 PM 6/1/2008 -0700, you wrote: >I am in the process of wiring my Plane Power alternator and I am wondering >of it matters in what sequence the 5 amp breaker and the switch are >placed. I currently have the field wire from the alternator connected to >the breaker, then the breaker to the switch (DPDT), then to the bus, as I >believe is shown on drawing Z-11 Breakers and fuses should be as close to the energy source as practical . . . I.e., at the bus. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob's LLC At 10:37 AM 5/29/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > >Have you looked at an HSA (Health Savings Account) for health >insurance? I won't go into too many details and everyone's situation can >vary, but if you can afford the deductible early on if you get sick >(worst case situation), it will eventually start to add up to a >significant amount of money in your account instead of the insurance >company's. Can work really well for a healthy younger person. Also, I'm >NOT in the insurance or healthcare business, only a small business trying >to stay afloat without lining the insurance company's pockets. > >Ed Absolutely. They also get your insurance company out of the loop as to who pays what for whom and why. What used to be a tool for reduction of risk has morphed into socialized sharing of expenses that can no longer be classed as "insurance". An HSA recovers at least a portion of that flexibility and personal initiative that we've sold to the so-called insurance companies over the years. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bridge Diodes use At 11:10 AM 5/29/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Jeff, > >I assume that you have two power sources so that if one fails, then the >other will carry the load. If that is true, then each circuit should be >designed to carry the full load. Correct. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:43 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 06/03/08 glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net > > Time: 10:49:57 AM PST US > From: "Larry L. Tompkins, P.E." > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice > > Ernest: > > It is my understanding that the SD-20 has both a wound stator and a > wound coil, i.e., no permanent magnets. Therefore it is "off" until > power to the field windings is switched on. > > Let me try to do a better job asking my question. The SD-8 is > continuously producing output. That is a misleading statement. Under normal ops, the SD-8 is creating a voltage, but no current. Much like a battery sitting on a shelf. >Does that mean it also has the > continuous potential to produce electrical noise? Not really. As I recall it, the regulator for this device is a 'switcher'. It uses pulse width modulation to take whatever the output voltage of the dynamo is and match it to the needs of the system. When the SD-8 is used as a back up, it's regulator should be set to a voltage greater than battery and lower than the main alternator's. In normal operations, this arrangement causes the SD-8's regulator to sense a high system voltage state, and responds by maintaining a constant 'off' state. No current, no noise. Once the system voltage sags to the SD-8 regulator's set point, it starts switching the dynamo's output on and off as required to take up the slack. This is a pretty noisy situation, and is why there is such a physically large capacitor used as a filter on it's output. I occasionally fly a plane that is equipped with a Com radio and an SD-8 as the only engine driven source of electrons. I've never experienced any electrical noise in the audio. >On the other hand, > the SD-20 is spinning continuously, but does not produce output unless > the field circuit is switched "on." What is the potential for the SD-20 > to generate electrical noise when it is spinning and not producing > output? Nothing noticeable. No current, no noise. > My question about "wear" was exceptionally poorly phrased. I am > actually interested in knowing whether there is more mechanical wear > (bearings) because the SD-8 is "on" all the time vs. the SD-20, which > would only be "on" during a primary alternator failure (I suspect this > may have more to do with the relative mechanical robustness of the > devices than anything else). The SD-8 is not only not producing power when the main alternator is functioning properly, but there are no brushes to wear. The only wear items I am aware of are the seal in the oil pump pad, and the bearing in the SD-8. If B&C has been true to their nature, the bearing in the SD-8 will be the last one under your cowling to fail. >Further, I was trying to understand if > mechanical wear on the SD-8 would increase its "noise signature" over > time No. >and if mechanical wear on the SD-20 would eventually result in an > electrical "noise signature" even with the alternator off. No >I hope I did > a better job of asking my questions this time. > > Larry The one thing that I could foresee being a problem would be if one ran a system wire, especially a sensor wire from a thermocouple, right next to the SD-8 installation. The spinning magnetic field of the SD-8 could impose a signal over the weak signal from an EGT (or other) sensor. The twisted pair of wires on these sensors should help mitigate that situation. Also, I don't recall ever hearing anyone mention such an issue in this forum, so I suspect it's a pretty low order threat. FWIW, and I hope this helps- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:57 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Testing SD-8 Circuit At 08:52 PM 5/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >I searched, but could not find the answer. I'm all wired and ready to >close the open access that I have to all my SD-8 circuit wiring. I'm >following Z-13 and would really like to test this standby alternator >circuit before it becomes difficult to repair, replace or modify. Is >there anything wrong with me hooking up a battery on a small charger into >the leads that are normally fed from the SD-8 regulator to test the relay >and associated wiring? I believe the battery on a charger would act like >the SD-8/regulator combination. Or is there another way to accomplish >this task that I'm overlooking? > >Thanks > >Rocky Hmmmm . . . this system is exceedingly simple. If you are confident of your wiring, then it will work as advertised. "Chargers" used to be coarse substitutes for power supplies but recent shifts to include battery charging and maintaining electronics make their performance as power supplies uncertain. A electronics-bench power supply would be a sure bet . . . but I'm not convinced that it's a good use of your $time$. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bridge Diodes use From: "Jeffrey Skiba" Yes I do have two power sources (one with 90 amp capacity and one with 20 amp)and would plan on each being able to carry the load. However if Both are powered, from all the posts I read, the power source with the Higher voltage will take ALL the load correct ? I ask since the two sources are not of the same capacity, aka during "normal ops" I would want to use the large capacity source to power the device connected to the diode. then if it fails the small device will pick up the load (with the help of extra battery capacity) until I can bring the load down on the smaller buss. Hope that makes sense :-) or am I missing something ? Jeff Nuckolls, III" > > > At 11:10 AM 5/29/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >>Jeff, >> >>I assume that you have two power sources so that if one fails, then the >>other will carry the load. If that is true, then each circuit should be >>designed to carry the full load. > > Correct. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: As it's quiet right now, can I check a few things...... At 10:33 AM 6/1/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm working on a version of Z-20 for my Jab/X-Air and as I'm an electrical >newbie I wanted to run a couple of things by the group to check that I'm >staying on track:- > >On the Power Master Switch am I right in thinking that the 2-10 has it's >first ON for just the battery and the second ON for Battery + Alternator? correct >Also, in the Z Figures, where there is no recommended wire size for the >ground wire what should I do? For example from the ALT OV Disconnect >Relay to FWL G2 and also from the Crowbar Over Voltage module to PNL >G3? I'm guessing that for all of the rest I'd just use the same AWG size >as I use from the main bus? All wires in series for any circuit would be the same size. In the two cases you cited, 22AWG is sufficient. All other wires should be sized according to the current they're intended to carry. Protective devices (fuses/breakers) are similarly selected. See wire sizing chart at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Wire_Chart.pdf Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice At 03:52 PM 6/1/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Although I already should have known, I was recently reminded that, as a >permanent magnet device, the SD-8 standby alternator is producing output >whenever it is rotating. > >Looking on the B&C website, I determined that the PMR1C regulator is a >heat sink for the 100-120 watts produced when the alternator is not >delivering current to the endurance bus. Unlike the earliest SHUNT regulators for PM alternators (makes alternator work full bore all the time) the regulators commonly offered today are SERIES devices . . . > >So Question #1 is whether the SD-8 is "wearing" to a greater extent than >the SD-20 since it is producing rated load all the time one is operating >the engine at cruise rpm? . . . that load the alternator in response to demands from system loads and/or state of battery discharge. > >If Question #1 is yes, then Question #2 is: Does the fact that the SD-8 is >producing output and wearing all the time make it more likely to be an >electrical noise source or more likely to become an electrical noise >source (at an earlier time in its life cycle) than the SD-20? > >Although I most likely don't need 20A backup capability for my endurance >bus, I would like to minimize any electrical noise potential. > >Thanks in advance to those who are more knowledgeable than this >electrically challenged mech. engr. Alternators are the strongest sources of noise in the system . . . but quite manageable. Your main alternator or even an SD-20 is MUCH noisier than an SD-8. Products designed to run in DC systems powered by alternators live quite happily in this environment. Your concerns for alternator noise are not well supported by the physics. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries At 12:42 AM 6/2/2008 -0500, you wrote: >O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide selection. For example FAYTX20 >18AH 270CCA 11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. >$132.95. Unless Interstate batteries are junk these batt. numbers smoke an >Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH and over 50% increase in CCA for the >same weight and approximately the same price. Or have a little more power >and save over 25% in weight plus your pocket book. There about the same >size overall compared with each other and the other types including the >Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing and if you >have problems you go back and talk to them in person. No internet return >headaches. > >Jonsey When selecting a battery, consider life-cycle costs of ownership. Assuming one subscribes to the idea that a battery needs to be a KNOWN quantity of stored energy for the purpose of supporting a KNOWN e-bus load for a KNOWN period of time, how do you plan to verify the battery's suitability for continued airworthiness? Cost of ownership includes $time$ expended in original purchase, tools to test, $time$ expended in supporting those tests. If you purchase a premium battery then there's a certain amount of pressure to expended still more $time$ testing so as to squeeze the last bit of value before removing the battery from service. Alternatively, consider using the lowest cost battery you can find and simply replace it periodically. Batteries like this: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P174-ND have performed well in OBAM aircraft. If you replace the battery when it's CAPACITY falls below your KNOWN e-bus operating limits, then it's still quite capable of cranking an engine. Therefore, issues like cold cranking amps are very low priority for selecting a battery. If you're a fair-weather, VFR pilot and you carry dark-panel backup equipment . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf . . . then you can run a battery until it simply doesn't crank the engine any more. In this case, you MIGHT be able to get more $value$ out of a premium battery. There are many operating variables that drive battery service life. It's exceedingly difficult to quantify return on investment for one style of battery over another. If it were my airplane, I'd put in the least expensive battery I can find. Run a real-time, e-bus endurance test at one year and every six months thereafter. Replace the battery when e-bus support drops below 2 hours (or what ever number you've selected for your modus-operandi). Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:53 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice At 02:50 PM 6/2/2008 +0000, you wrote: >I'm in the same boat Larry being an ME.. > >In practice I have never heard any radio noise form the SD8. I would also >put the output nearer 12A rather than the 8A it is rated for. The SD-8 is capable of 12A output if you spin it fast enough. Years ago, the SD-8 had a belt driven cousin that was mounted under the prop shaft on the O-200. This version spun fast enough to call it a 12A machine. See: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8-Performance.pdf The "rating" is also dependent upon whether you're asking the alternator to CHARGE a battery, or simply SUPPORT the system at a voltage sufficient to PREVENT DISCHARGE of the battery. As the two curves cited above illustrate, when driven at vacuum pump pad speeds, you can rate the SD-8 at more than 8A if your willing to let the bus voltage sag down to battery sustain levels. SD-8 noise is quite nominal. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/SD-8_Noise_Data.pdf At 14.6v, 10.6 amps load and 4000 rpm filtered by a ratty 10K uF capacitor, I measured about 250 mV pk-pk noise. This is about 1/6 the noise you might expect from a 60A main alternator. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:59 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice Oh that makes sense because when I did my IFR test running more equipment than I though was possible (i.e right around 12A's worth) the batt volts would sag to 12v but it would only give me an alarm (11.8V I think) if I hit the transmit on the radio. I took this to mean I could safely run this level of equipment to my destination. Frank The "rating" is also dependent upon whether you're asking the alternator to CHARGE a battery, or simply SUPPORT the system at a voltage sufficient to PREVENT DISCHARGE of the battery. As the two curves cited above illustrate, when driven at vacuum pump pad speeds, you can rate the SD-8 at more than 8A if your willing to let the bus voltage sag down to battery sustain levels. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:28 AM PST US From: "D Wysong" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ring terminal > I need to find a ring terminal for the starter such that the #2 wire > comes off at a 90 degree angle. Any ideas/help. > > Jonsey Something like this, Jonsey? http://www.evparts.com/prod-TM2386.htm D ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:18 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice At 05:00 PM 6/4/2008 +0000, you wrote: > > >Oh that makes sense because when I did my IFR test running more equipment >than I though was possible (i.e right around 12A's worth) the batt volts >would sag to 12v but it would only give me an alarm (11.8V I think) if I >hit the transmit on the radio. > >I took this to mean I could safely run this level of equipment to my >destination. The battery begins to deliver energy at about 12.6 volts or so. So if you loaded the system to 12.0 volts, then no doubt the battery was carrying part of the total load. This is why I set LV Warning devices at 13.0 volts. At this level, the alternator may be "overloaded" . . . i.e. unable to charge a battery but it's still holding the battery in reserve for approach to landing. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:22 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: SD-8 noise issues At 09:47 AM 6/4/2008 -0400, you wrote: > > > >glen matejcek >aerobubba@earthlink.net > > > > > Time: 10:49:57 AM PST US > > From: "Larry L. Tompkins, P.E." > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 vs. SD-20 choice > > > > Ernest: > > > > It is my understanding that the SD-20 has both a wound stator and a > > wound coil, i.e., no permanent magnets. Therefore it is "off" until > > power to the field windings is switched on. > > > > Let me try to do a better job asking my question. The SD-8 is > > continuously producing output. > >That is a misleading statement. Under normal ops, the SD-8 is creating a >voltage, but no current. Much like a battery sitting on a shelf. >The one thing that I could foresee being a problem would be if one ran a >system wire, especially a sensor wire from a thermocouple, right next to >the SD-8 installation. The spinning magnetic field of the SD-8 could >impose a signal over the weak signal from an EGT (or other) sensor. The >twisted pair of wires on these sensors should help mitigate that situation. >Also, I don't recall ever hearing anyone mention such an issue in this >forum, so I suspect it's a pretty low order threat. > >FWIW, and I hope this helps- Nice response Glen. There IS a significant magnetic field outside the SD-8 housing. Of course, spinning that housing offers a potential for generating magnetically coupled noises into any adjacent conductors. However, given that all sensors to the engine SHOULD be carried on twisted inbound/outbound conductors, the effects of this noise should be zero. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:00 PM PST US From: "Dennis Jones" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ring terminal Close. This is what I am looking for. Plus they have a few of the other hard to find items. Thanks for the link. http://www.evparts.com/prod-TM2344.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Wysong" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:52 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ring terminal > >> I need to find a ring terminal for the starter such that the #2 wire >> comes off at a 90 degree angle. Any ideas/help. >> >> Jonsey > > Something like this, Jonsey? > > http://www.evparts.com/prod-TM2386.htm > > D > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:21 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bridge Diodes use At 09:24 AM 6/4/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Yes I do have two power sources (one with 90 amp capacity and one with 20 >amp) and would plan on each being able to carry the load. > >However if Both are powered, from all the posts I read, >the power source with the Higher voltage will take ALL the load correct ? Correct. >I ask since the two sources are not of the same capacity, aka during >"normal ops" >I would want to use the large capacity source to power the device >connected to the diode. >then if it fails the small device will pick up the load (with the help of >extra battery capacity) until I can bring the load down on the smaller buss. >Hope that makes sense :-) >or am I missing something ? I guess I don't understand your architecture. Did you start with one of the Z-figures? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:04 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Testing SD-8 Circuit From: "rockyjs" Thanks Bob, I think I'll just close it up. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186321#186321 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:08 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Batteries From: fiveonepw@aol.com Update- I tried to stuff a Panasonic LC-X1220P (same dimensions for the 17Ah version) into the Van's PC-680 box (supplied with FWF kit) and it is a no-go. Appears this battery is just slightly too big for the box- a one-sixteenth shave in length would be enough to make it fit. Not the reason I opted to make a "box" of my own design, but if using Van's kit, the PC-680 looks like a better fit. Oh well... Mark ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:13 PM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SlilckStart Troubleshooting If your SlickStart doesn't seem to be starting so slick, read on. Our RV-10 developed a starting problem in that in suddenly becare VERY difficult to start. For 130 hours it had been starting quite nicely, but the last time I tired, I just had to give up. N921AC has two slick mags, one with retard points on the left, and a SlickStart solid state starting module, essentially a newer version of the Shower of Sparks system. I went through all the normal troubleshooting and figured the problem must be the SlickStart module. I wasn't getting any spark at the plug with the SlickStart powered up and the retard points in firing position. I called Unison just to make sure I was checking the right things, and they confirmed it had to be the SlickStart. So I changed it. No help. I checked as many things as I could think of: timing, p-leads, harness, fuse, grounds.. I knew the points were opening because my timing box was indicating OK. I knew the mag was basically sound because when we had managed to get it started (I won't go into how...), it ran fine with a normal mag drop. I finally gave up and sent the mag and both SlickStarts (old one and new one) to LyCon, where I got my engine. They put it on their magneto bench, and came up with the following explanation. This is somewhat untested, but it makes sense and all the evidence >>points<< to it. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Ken at LyCon explained to me that the capacitor had failed, and in so doing had caused the frame of the points (both sets, I guess), to get warm enough to accelerate the wear of the cam follower. So, both points were technically opening, but just barely enough to trip the timing light. Maybe .001 or .002 inches instead of .012 or more. That does make sense, because one of the first things I did was to check the mag timing, and I found it had advanced about 10 degrees, to about 15 BTC on the main points and about 10 past TC on the retard points. I just reset the timing and went on troubleshooting. As the cam follower wears, it retards the spark. Part of the SlickStart troubleshooting says to look for ~300 volts from the output. If the points were barely opening, I think that 300 volts would be able to jump the gap and essentially ground through the retard points instead of exciting the primary coil. I installed my old mag after LyCon replaced boths sets of points and the capacitor, and it worked fine. So the upshot is, if the SlickStart troubleshooting points to a bad module, it's probably worth physically checking the point gap with a feeler gauge, instead of just with the timing box before you replace the module. In retrospect I wish Unison would have suggested that. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com 135 hours ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.