Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:42 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (h&jeuropa)
2. 06:06 AM - Re: New toy from Radio Shack (John Swartout)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: Ray Allen Position Indicators (OOPS!!!) (Eric M. Jones)
4. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Ray Allen Position Indicators (OOPS!!!) (Harry Manvel)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: Bridge Diodes use (Eric M. Jones)
6. 07:58 AM - Re: New toy from Radio Shack (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:01 AM - Basic schematic drawing # ()
8. 08:42 AM - Re: Drilling Switch holes in aluminum? (Mike)
9. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Bridge Diodes use (Etienne Phillips)
10. 09:47 AM - Re: Basic schematic drawing # ()
11. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Bridge Diodes use ()
12. 11:20 AM - Re: Basic schematic drawing # (Gaye and Vaughn)
13. 11:33 AM - Re: Basic schematic drawing # ()
14. 11:48 AM - Re: Basic schematic drawing # (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 12:07 PM - Re: Basic schematic drawing # (PJ Seipel)
16. 01:20 PM - Re: Basic schematic drawing # (David Chapdelaine)
17. 02:34 PM - Problem with TurboCAD (Jim McBurney)
18. 02:42 PM - Starting the REAL electrical work on my 601XL (Gig Giacona)
19. 03:40 PM - Re: Starting the REAL electrical work on my 601XL (Matt Prather)
20. 03:54 PM - Re: Drilling Switch holes in aluminum? (Dale Rogers)
21. 04:20 PM - Re: Problem with TurboCAD (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 04:56 PM - Re: Drilling Switch holes in aluminum? (Ron Shannon)
23. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Bridge Diodes use (The Kuffels)
24. 05:10 PM - Re: Problem with Turbo CAD (Allen Fulmer)
25. 05:42 PM - Ground power for dual battery dual buss Z-14 (Deems Davis)
26. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Bridge Diodes use (Matt Prather)
27. 06:09 PM - Re: Ground power for dual battery dual buss Z-14 (John Cox)
28. 07:01 PM - Re: Bridge Diodes use (Eric M. Jones)
29. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Bridge Diodes use (Bill Boyd)
30. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: Bridge Diodes use (Matt Prather)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna |
I seem to have these problems pretty well solved. Initially tried shielded cables
(shield grounded to A/C ground point near inst panel - unconnected at other
end) with lots of toroids to the ELT and Magnetometer. Also made the interconnect
between the Primary Flight Display and the MFD a shielded cable. Had little
or no effect. Then tried just shielded cable (no toroids) to ELT and wrapped
the entire ELT in aluminum foil. Foil is connected to the cable shield and
ground is as before. That solved the ELT problem. From other forums I learned
that there are D Sub filters which have capacitors built in bypassing each
connection to the shell of the connector. Acquired Spectrum Control Series
100 filters, 5600 pf (from Newark Electronics) for the Magnetometer and the PFD
(main display). At the Magnetometer I connected the cable shield to the D
Sub shell since the shell is floating inside the Mag and I needed a return for
the filter. Found the PFD filter didn't have any effect but the Mag helped
some. Finally wrapped the Mag in aluminum foil which is connected to the shield
and that seemed to solve the problems. I think there is so much RF from the
com antenna and no shielding because of the composite, that it overwhelms the
ELT and Magnetometer.
I also found a local ham with an antenna analyzer (MFJ Model 269) and had a look
at my com antenna. Found it had very low SWR but the resistance of the antenna
changed if I walked near the antenna and the resistance was not constant or
nearly so across the 118 to 136 Mhz range. We both suspected the toroid balun
just didn't perform properly. So we decided to make a balun from coax as the
ham radio books have shown for years. It is very much like the one on the
Aero Electric website except the length of the balun section is an electrical
half wavelength, so you must take into account the velocity factor of the cable.
Using RG400 (vf=.695), the balun section is 16 1/4" long. Took off the toroids
and installed the new balun. Had to trim the antenna to get the SWR low
near the center of the band, but now the SWR is less than 2:1 across the entire
band, the resistance stays constant and walking near the antenna makes no difference.
Hope this helps someone else.
Jim Butcher
Europa N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187107#187107
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: New toy from Radio Shack |
Bob, I can't recall if you've ever expressed your views on soldering guns. Any
reason not to use one?
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Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Position Indicators (OOPS!!!) |
I have studied these for a while and an planning a version of my True Servo Control
MAC/RAC (TSCMR) which will incorporate the panel bar graph. But for now,
attached is a schematic of the Ray Allen trim box and indicator. Most people might
want to keep these with their wiring book.
Hope this helps.
"A witty saying proves nothing."
--Voltaire
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187120#187120
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mac_servo_and_indicator_wiring_ae_194.pdf
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Ray Allen Position Indicators (OOPS!!!) |
Eric,
You seem to know the MAC trim system, maybe you can offer an opinion. My
bar graph indicator has always gone bonkers when in flight, but at idle on
the ground works normally. No amount of shielding, rewiring etc. has been
able to stop this. The folks at the factory really had no clue as to what
might cause it. Any thoughts on that?
Harry Manvel
Defiant N2HM
PTK / Pontiac, MI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:11 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ray Allen Position Indicators (OOPS!!!)
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> I have studied these for a while and an planning a version of my True
> Servo Control MAC/RAC (TSCMR) which will incorporate the panel bar graph.
> But for now, attached is a schematic of the Ray Allen trim box and
> indicator. Most people might want to keep these with their wiring book.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> "A witty saying proves nothing."
> --Voltaire
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187120#187120
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/mac_servo_and_indicator_wiring_ae_194.pdf
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
More on Diodes and FWBs:
On B & C Diode Installation sheet they state that "Heatsink must dissipate 0.6
X Amps = Watts. Example For 20 Amp Essential Bus, 0.6 X 20 = 12 Watt Heatsink".
But this is wrong and points out a common fallacy regarding diodes:
With two resistors in parallel, the resistance of the combination is 1/2.
With two MosFets in parallel, the Rds(on) of the combination is 1/2
When using two (or any number of DIODES in parallel, the combination of the Vf's
is still only Vf. B & C didn't understand this, and thus the dissipated wattage
is twice what is stated. And remember--this bridge rectifier will ONLY handle
12.5 Amps with an infinite heatsink and NO margin when used in a source-selecting
configuration.
This brings me back to my tired old point that anyone using regular diodes need
to re-evaluate their choice. I have sold MANY HUNDREDS of PowerSchottkys to builders
who understand this. For Z-19 etc. builders, check out the IXYS DSS 2x61-0045A
Dual Power Schottky Rectifiers. 30A on each leg. I sell these with heatsink
and Y-jumper, etc., but you can buy your own.
Before being concerned by the higher price--consider the savings in the much smaller,
lighter heat sink, the higher performance, and the FAR LOWER COST OF OWNERSHIP.
Someday my friend Bob will abandon this FWB stuff and go with Schottky Diodes.
But I guess you can't get them at Radio Shack.
"In times of rapid change, experience could be your worst enemy."
---Jean Paul Getty
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187132#187132
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/power_deuce_schottky_manual_127.pdf
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: New toy from Radio Shack |
At 09:02 AM 6/10/2008 -0400, you wrote:
><jgswartout@earthlink.net>
>
>Bob, I can't recall if you've ever expressed your views on soldering
>guns. Any reason not to use one?
They get hot, melt solder and for a time (about 1962)
was my #1 choice of soldering tools when I was working
with hard wired vacuum tubes.
I have a couple but very seldom use them . . . my benches
have Metcal stations and the grab-it-and-run tool boxes
have gas powered and/or battery powered portables.
It's not that the soldering gun doesn't work as advertised,
it's just bulky and horribly inefficient. When you consider
the part that gets hot . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Soldering/Irons/gun2.jpg
the 125 watts of rated power dissipated over the whole
length of the copper "tip".
I wouldn't bad-mouth the things. They're entirely suitable
to the soldering tasks for some folks, they just don't
fit my personal beat-n-bash model any more. I have a
grandson who may end up owning one of my soldering guns.
It's a good start-up teaching tool.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Basic schematic drawing # |
Hi All,
I'm new to this list, and I'm trying to learn the basics as I start to plan my
electrical system for my RV-7. I bought and read the aeroelectric connection,
but I seemed to have misplaced the schematic I was going to follow as an outline.
It's just a basic VFR, single alternator and battery system. I went back to
the book to look and I went through the schematics in the back of the book,
but can't find the one I saw earlier. Can anyone help me out?
Thanks,
Dave
Message 8
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Subject: | Drilling Switch holes in aluminum? |
Mike,
Another option is to use a water jet machine. You can download Turbo
CAD and learn to do holes on it in about an hour or two. Save to a DXF
file format and then bring the file and metal to your local water jet
guy and have it cut. Cost of program for 30 days - free, cost for 10
switch holes in 2024 less then $20, cost of learning basic CAD -
priceless (you can use it more then once).
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikef
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Drilling Switch holes in aluminum?
Hi AeroElectricteers,
I am close to actually mounting the switches (99% B&C Carling switches)
and finalizing the wiring in my Z-19 system. I was looking for
recommendations about how to drill clean, neat holes for switches in my
light aluminum boxes.
Because of panel space I will need to mount several switches, along with
rectangular digital volt and ammeter gauges, on the dash above the
fiberglass panel, in a long aluminum box. The box I have is about
12"x3"x3" , that comes in two parts, separates easily with screws
removed. I plan to mount the box base on top of the dash, then mount the
switches into the other half that mates together.
I have access to a small drill press but I've not done this kind of
drilling/mounting before, and I'd really like to do a neat job of it. No
rough gouged holes. Advice and suggestions regarding tools (dills, bits,
etc) and techniques for drilling the round switch holes and rectangular
gauge holes is most appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186861#186861
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
> >On B & C Diode Installation sheet they state that "Heatsink must dissipate
> 0.6 X Amps = Watts. Example For 20 Amp Essential Bus, 0.6 X 20 = 12 Watt
> Heatsink".
>
In my experience, I have never come across a 12W heatsink. Nor a 1W or 1000W
heatsink.
A heatsink is chosen appropriate to the temperature rise above ambient the
casing of the device can tolerate, or what the spec-sheet says. A single
machined-bolt head can dissipate 12W without any additional cooling, however
only when it reaches 200 degrees C (thumbsuck). If you can only tolerate a
1degC increase in temperature, the heatsink required to dissipate 12W will
be the size of a large desk.
So, a specsheet specifies the heatsinking requirements in [degrees above
ambient]/[Watt], or specifies the maximum allowable temperature. So consider
an ambient of 23degC, a maximum of 100degC, and we have calculated that the
device will need to dissipate 10W. That gives us a requirement for a
7.7deg/Watt heatsink, which can be ordered accordingly.
I understand the calculations relating to dissipation of heat, and IIRC a
Schottky diode, with a forward bias voltage of 0.2V rather than the 0.6~0.7V
of a regular diode, dissipates 1/3 the energy for a given current. However,
there are always other considerations that have not been touched in this
discussion (such as thermal robustness, vibration tolerance, ease of
mounting), some of which are the same for both Schottky diodes and for
normal ones, and others which will draw very clear lines in the sand
precluding one or both from certain applications.
Message 10
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Subject: | Basic schematic drawing # |
Dave,
You're not making much sense. We don't know what you saw b4, during or
after you read the book? It sounds like you'll get to read the book
again and interpret the writings to apply what is best for your
equipment. The book clearly separates simple from complex with respect
to the diagrams.
Enjoy
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
chappyd@charter.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:57 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic schematic drawing #
Hi All,
I'm new to this list, and I'm trying to learn the basics as I start to
plan my electrical system for my RV-7. I bought and read the
aeroelectric connection, but I seemed to have misplaced the schematic I
was going to follow as an outline. It's just a basic VFR, single
alternator and battery system. I went back to the book to look and I
went through the schematics in the back of the book, but can't find the
one I saw earlier. Can anyone help me out?
Thanks,
Dave
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
Eric,
Thanks for the information. On Saturday I hooked up the B & C diode with
heat sink attached for a 6 hour load test (Z-19). I turned on 15 amps
worth of stuff to see if it would start smoking or something of the
sort. Initially it got 30-35 C but later cooled down below 30 C for the
duration of the run. No adverse behavior to report. If my load gets any
higher I'll be over the Schottky fence.
The Schottky device certainly looks more robust and if it runs cooler, I
may be the next fan.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Bridge Diodes use
--> <emjones@charter.net>
More on Diodes and FWBs:
On B & C Diode Installation sheet they state that "Heatsink must
dissipate 0.6 X Amps = Watts. Example For 20 Amp Essential Bus, 0.6 X 20
= 12 Watt Heatsink".
But this is wrong and points out a common fallacy regarding diodes:
With two resistors in parallel, the resistance of the combination is
1/2. With two MosFets in parallel, the Rds(on) of the combination is 1/2
When using two (or any number of DIODES in parallel, the combination of
the Vf's is still only Vf. B & C didn't understand this, and thus the
dissipated wattage is twice what is stated. And remember--this bridge
rectifier will ONLY handle 12.5 Amps with an infinite heatsink and NO
margin when used in a source-selecting configuration.
This brings me back to my tired old point that anyone using regular
diodes need to re-evaluate their choice. I have sold MANY HUNDREDS of
PowerSchottkys to builders who understand this. For Z-19 etc. builders,
check out the IXYS DSS 2x61-0045A Dual Power Schottky Rectifiers. 30A on
each leg. I sell these with heatsink and Y-jumper, etc., but you can buy
your own.
Before being concerned by the higher price--consider the savings in the
much smaller, lighter heat sink, the higher performance, and the FAR
LOWER COST OF OWNERSHIP.
Someday my friend Bob will abandon this FWB stuff and go with Schottky
Diodes. But I guess you can't get them at Radio Shack.
"In times of rapid change, experience could be your worst enemy."
---Jean Paul Getty
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187132#187132
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/power_deuce_schottky_manual_127.pdf
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Basic schematic drawing # |
It sounds like you have misplaced either Z-11, labeled "Generic Light
Aircraft Electrical System".
Does that ring a bell?
Vauhgn
---- Original Message -----
From: <chappyd@charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic schematic drawing #
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm new to this list, and I'm trying to learn the basics as I start to
> plan my electrical system for my RV-7. I bought and read the aeroelectric
> connection, but I seemed to have misplaced the schematic I was going to
> follow as an outline. It's just a basic VFR, single alternator and battery
> system. I went back to the book to look and I went through the schematics
> in the back of the book, but can't find the one I saw earlier. Can anyone
> help me out?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Basic schematic drawing # |
Yes, I believe that is the one, Z11. I removed it from the book and must have brought
it into the shop, and have misplaced it. Would it be possible to get a
copy?
Thanks, Dave
---- Gaye and Vaughn <vaughnray@bvunet.net> wrote:
>
>
> It sounds like you have misplaced either Z-11, labeled "Generic Light
> Aircraft Electrical System".
> Does that ring a bell?
>
> Vauhgn
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: <chappyd@charter.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:56 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic schematic drawing #
>
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm new to this list, and I'm trying to learn the basics as I start to
> > plan my electrical system for my RV-7. I bought and read the aeroelectric
> > connection, but I seemed to have misplaced the schematic I was going to
> > follow as an outline. It's just a basic VFR, single alternator and battery
> > system. I went back to the book to look and I went through the schematics
> > in the back of the book, but can't find the one I saw earlier. Can anyone
> > help me out?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Basic schematic drawing # |
At 11:30 AM 6/10/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Yes, I believe that is the one, Z11. I removed it from the book and must
>have brought it into the shop, and have misplaced it. Would it be possible
>to get a copy?
>
>Thanks, Dave
Z-figures in the book are out of date before the ink dries.
The latest Z-figures are always posted in both .dwg CAD
format . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/
and .pdf printer format on the website at . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Basic schematic drawing # |
You can download them from www.aeroelectric.com. Go to Downloadable
Reference Materials, and then Page Per System Drawings. You get your
choice of .DXF (cad) or .PDF
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
do not archive
chappyd@charter.net wrote:
>
> Yes, I believe that is the one, Z11. I removed it from the book and must have
brought it into the shop, and have misplaced it. Would it be possible to get
a copy?
>
> Thanks, Dave
>
>
> ---- Gaye and Vaughn <vaughnray@bvunet.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> It sounds like you have misplaced either Z-11, labeled "Generic Light
>> Aircraft Electrical System".
>> Does that ring a bell?
>>
>> Vauhgn
>>
>> ---- Original Message -----
>> From: <chappyd@charter.net>
>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:56 AM
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic schematic drawing #
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and I'm trying to learn the basics as I start to
>>> plan my electrical system for my RV-7. I bought and read the aeroelectric
>>> connection, but I seemed to have misplaced the schematic I was going to
>>> follow as an outline. It's just a basic VFR, single alternator and battery
>>> system. I went back to the book to look and I went through the schematics
>>> in the back of the book, but can't find the one I saw earlier. Can anyone
>>> help me out?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Basic schematic drawing # |
Thanks all.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "PJ Seipel" <seipel@seznam.cz>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Basic schematic drawing #
>
> You can download them from www.aeroelectric.com. Go to Downloadable
> Reference Materials, and then Page Per System Drawings. You get your
> choice of .DXF (cad) or .PDF
>
> PJ Seipel
> RV-10 #40032
> do not archive
>
> chappyd@charter.net wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I believe that is the one, Z11. I removed it from the book and must
>> have brought it into the shop, and have misplaced it. Would it be
>> possible to get a copy?
>>
>> Thanks, Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Gaye and Vaughn <vaughnray@bvunet.net> wrote:
>>> <vaughnray@bvunet.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds like you have misplaced either Z-11, labeled "Generic Light
>>> Aircraft Electrical System".
>>> Does that ring a bell?
>>>
>>> Vauhgn
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>> From: <chappyd@charter.net>
>>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:56 AM
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Basic schematic drawing #
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm new to this list, and I'm trying to learn the basics as I start to
>>>> plan my electrical system for my RV-7. I bought and read the
>>>> aeroelectric connection, but I seemed to have misplaced the schematic I
>>>> was going to follow as an outline. It's just a basic VFR, single
>>>> alternator and battery system. I went back to the book to look and I
>>>> went through the schematics in the back of the book, but can't find the
>>>> one I saw earlier. Can anyone help me out?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Date: 6/6/2008 5:48 PM
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Problem with TurboCAD |
Bob (and List),
Help!
I'm trying to load Z figures into TurboCAD, and I keep getting "cannot open
file" errors. I've downloaded TurboCAD Learning Edition from two different
sources on the internet, and both give the same results. I purchased a
paper copy of Aeroelectric Connection ver 10, and have downloaded ver 11
from the website, which is my source of the Z-figure files. I can load the
.pdf files, but obviously can't use them in cad. I'm running in Win2000.
Any ideas what my problem is?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Jim
CH-801
DeltaHawk diesel
Augusta GA
90% done, 90% left
Message 18
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Subject: | Starting the REAL electrical work on my 601XL |
First off, I'm not an electrician but I wasn't a metals guy before I started building
my plane either. I've gotten my Corvair engine built by William Wynne and
will be starting the electrical work shortly and could use all the advice I
can get.
I understand because of the Corvair I'll have to make changes to any of the AeroElectric
plans but I could use some advise on which one to start with. Here's
what the plane will have electric wise.
Icom A210
Garmin 320
Garmin 496
Landing and Taxi Lights
RAC trim on both aileron and elevator
Dynon 180
Strobes on the wings
Nav Lights
Electric Flaps
As I mentioned the WW Corvair engine has a unique ignition system Single plug per
cylinder and dual ignition one points and one electronic. There are also two
inline electric fuel pumps on the engine side of the firewall. They will be
wired along with the ignition so that a single switch switches both ignition system
and fuel pumps.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187241#187241
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Starting the REAL electrical work on my 601XL |
> <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
snip
> firewall. They will be wired along with the ignition so that a single
> switch switches both ignition system and fuel pumps.
>
It's possible I don't clearly understand how you'll be wiring the fuel
pumps and ignition system(s).. But it sounds like you are saying that
there will be a single switch controlling everything. If so, I believe
this switch represents a single point of failure, which is generally
undesirable for flight critical electrical items - at least when it comes
to switches... If the switch falls apart, the engine could stop
running(?).
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
Regards,
Matt
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Drilling Switch holes in aluminum? |
Ron,
Wrong kind of "punch". Take a lot at the Harbor Freight # 91201
punch set:
[ http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91201 ]
One drills a center/pilot hole for the through-bolt, which pulls the two
halves of the punch together through the panel. No throat size to worry
about.
Dale R.
COZY MkIV #0497
Ch. 13
Ron Shannon wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Robert Feldtman <bobf@feldtman.com
> <mailto:bobf@feldtman.com>> wrote:
>
> a "punch" is better - they are on sale at Harbour freight
>
> bobf
>
>
> A good punch is great if you can get one with a deep enough throat to
> reach the locations on your panel and if it will punch a 15/32" hole
> spec'd for the S700 series switches. The one I got from HF (#91510)
> has a 3-1/4" throat which wouldn't reach some of the holes in other
> parts of my layout and only goes up to a 7/16" hole.
>
> Ron
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Problem with TurboCAD |
At 05:30 PM 6/10/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Bob (and List),
>
>Help!
>I'm trying to load Z figures into TurboCAD, and I keep getting "cannot open
>file" errors. I've downloaded TurboCAD Learning Edition from two different
>sources on the internet, and both give the same results. I purchased a
>paper copy of Aeroelectric Connection ver 10, and have downloaded ver 11
>from the website, which is my source of the Z-figure files. I can load the
>.pdf files, but obviously can't use them in cad. I'm running in Win2000.
>Any ideas what my problem is?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help.\
Don't know what the "learning edition" is. I have copies
of TurboCAD 7 and TurboCAD v10 on my computer. Both open,
edit, print and save the .dwg files from the website. You
can get a "real" copy of TurboCAD dirt cheap from sources like:
http://tinyurl.com/44fhvd
Bob . . .
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Drilling Switch holes in aluminum? |
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Dale Rogers <dale.r@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Wrong kind of "punch". Take a lot at the Harbor Freight # 91201 punch
> set:
>
> [ http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91201 ]
>
> One drills a center/pilot hole for the through-bolt, which pulls the two
> halves of the punch together through the panel. No throat size to worry
> about.
>
> Dale R.
> COZY MkIV #0497
> Ch. 13
Yes, of course, but... still no 15/32" for the S700's.
Ron
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
Eric,
Am loath to get between you and Bob when discussing electrons but
don't understand what you said about bridge diode heat
dissipation. If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
If two diodes in parallel are carrying the same 20 amps then the
current is split between the two diodes, with each having more or
less half the load with a total of 20 amps between them. So each
diode is generating about half of 12 watts with a total
generation of still only 12 watts not 24.
What am I missing?
Tom, AL7AU
Message 24
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Subject: | Problem with Turbo CAD |
Bob,
I bought one of the "cheap" copies of Turbo CAD 10.2 and it opens the Zxx
files just fine. Problem is, I can't seem to find any of the tutorials on
their web site. I suspect they pull them after some number of newer
versions are released. I'm sure a policy designed to sell more upgrades.
I recently took a little intro CAD course at the local junior college but
they were using AutoCAD 2008. Little similarity I am afraid (no command
line in TC) so was looking for some way to learn TC without printing out the
400 plus page pdf document on the CDROM.
Amy suggestions on learning TC 10.2 other than to just tough it out?
At any rate, thanks for all the wonderful information and drawings.
Couldn't do this wiring thing without it.
Thanks again,
Allen Fulmer
RV7 working on electrical
Alexander City, AL
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On
>>>Behalf Of Robert
>>>L. Nuckolls, III
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:18 PM
>>>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Problem with TurboCAD
>>>
>>>
>>>Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>>>
>>>At 05:30 PM 6/10/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>>><jmcburney@pobox.com>
>>>>
>>>>Bob (and List),
>>>>
>>>>Help!
>>>>I'm trying to load Z figures into TurboCAD, and I keep
>>>getting "cannot open
>>>>file" errors. I've downloaded TurboCAD Learning Edition
>>>from two different
>>>>sources on the internet, and both give the same results. I
>>>purchased a
>>>>paper copy of Aeroelectric Connection ver 10, and have
>>>downloaded ver 11
>>>>from the website, which is my source of the Z-figure files.
>>> I can load the
>>>>.pdf files, but obviously can't use them in cad. I'm
>>>running in Win2000.
>>>>Any ideas what my problem is?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in advance for any help.\
>>>
>>> Don't know what the "learning edition" is. I have copies
>>> of TurboCAD 7 and TurboCAD v10 on my computer. Both open,
>>> edit, print and save the .dwg files from the website. You
>>> can get a "real" copy of TurboCAD dirt cheap from sources like:
>>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/44fhvd
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 25
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Subject: | Ground power for dual battery dual buss Z-14 |
I would like to install a ground power outlet/jack on my airplane. I
have a copy of Bob's article from the website. I have a dual battery,
dual buss (Z14) system installed as close as I could to Bob's diagram.
Is there anything unique that I should do when installing the above?
I suppose that the most likely need/use for this would be in the event
that with the plane away from home base,one or both electric systems
were left on after engine shutdown, and both batteries drained to the
point where they would not crank the engine. 1. If the ground power was
only installed to connect to one (the primary) battery is there any
consideration that needs to be taken to protect/isolate the other
battery during a start using ground power. (The Z14 momentarily couples
both elec systems together during start). 2. With only a single ground
power jack is there any 'reasonable' way to 'charge' both batteries
through this jack?
Exposing my lack of electrical confidence/understanding.
Deems Davis
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
I'm with you Tom..
The only thing I'd add is that a diode has a pretty sharp knee in it's I-V
curve - where it's "resistance" goes from looking high (small change in I
for a large change in V) to where it's "resistance" looks low (large
change in I for small change in V).
If two unmatched devices are used in parallel, process differences between
them can cause one of the devices to turn on (forward bias) before the
other, and carry noticeable more current in that operating region.
Since significantly more voltage than the knee voltage is available in
this application, we can be fairly confident that both devices will be
fully forward biased, and the power drop should be fairly equal.
It's also likely that both devices come from the same fab lot (and wafer)
and so their electrical properties are probably essentially matched.
Regards,
Matt
> <kuffel@cyberport.net>
>
> Eric,
>
> Am loath to get between you and Bob when discussing electrons but
> don't understand what you said about bridge diode heat
> dissipation. If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
> voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
> If two diodes in parallel are carrying the same 20 amps then the
> current is split between the two diodes, with each having more or
> less half the load with a total of 20 amps between them. So each
> diode is generating about half of 12 watts with a total
> generation of still only 12 watts not 24.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Tom, AL7AU
>
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Ground power for dual battery dual buss Z-14 |
With the RV-10 and internal ground straps (back in the baggage area) it
is not as critical. But I love to see electric shrink wrap and
prosealed ends on ground straps that are FWF. The strap loves to wick
hydrocarbons and promote corrosion - over the life of an aircraft. It
makes cleaning for Conditional Inspections a breeze.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems
Davis
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground power for dual battery dual buss Z-14
<deemsdavis@cox.net>
I would like to install a ground power outlet/jack on my airplane. I
have a copy of Bob's article from the website. I have a dual battery,
dual buss (Z14) system installed as close as I could to Bob's diagram.
Is there anything unique that I should do when installing the above?
I suppose that the most likely need/use for this would be in the event
that with the plane away from home base,one or both electric systems
were left on after engine shutdown, and both batteries drained to the
point where they would not crank the engine. 1. If the ground power was
only installed to connect to one (the primary) battery is there any
consideration that needs to be taken to protect/isolate the other
battery during a start using ground power. (The Z14 momentarily couples
both elec systems together during start). 2. With only a single ground
power jack is there any 'reasonable' way to 'charge' both batteries
through this jack?
Exposing my lack of electrical confidence/understanding.
Deems Davis
Message 28
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|
Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
> Eric,
>
> Am loath to get between you and Bob when discussing electrons but
> don't understand what you said about bridge diode heat
> dissipation. If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
> voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
> If two diodes in parallel are carrying the same 20 amps then the
> current is split between the two diodes, with each having more or
> less half the load with a total of 20 amps between them. So each
> diode is generating about half of 12 watts with a total
> generation of still only 12 watts not 24.
> What am I missing?
> Tom, AL7AU
Tom et al.
If either one or two or a hundred conventional diodes is sharing the load, they
still dissipate Vf X A. Where A is the current through the device; in this case
the Full Wave Bridge (FWB) or Schottky Module.
The important point is that Vf is not reduced by putting parts in parallel. (But
it is increased by putting parts in series....)
(True, each diode carries less current, but the package is what we bolt to the
heat sink. In fact you can distribute the heat dissipation by distributing the
parts, and this is done on some designs, since small parts have greater surface
area per volume, so they might not need a heat sink at all.)
> If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
> voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
If pigs had wings!....The error I pointed out is the claim that a B & C FWB, when
wired so that two diodes are parallel, would have a Vf of 0.6. It does not;
the Vf is often 1.2 maybe, and someone incorrectly assumed that the diodes being
in parallel made the Vf sum 0.6. The very best conventional FWB diodes are
0.9Vf at 10A for each diode (you can't buy these at Radio Shack), so it dissipates
(2X0.9X10A=) 18W VERY BEST CASE., and 24W worst case if the diodes are Vf=1.2.
By the way, FWB packages are just four diodes wired up to four terminals and epoxy
potted in a little box. You could make your own, but it's easier to abandon
the concept entirely.
Hope this doesn't scramble it more.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.
-- Richard P. Feynman
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187299#187299
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Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
So you're saying that any given diode (of the four) in a conventional,
inexpensive potted FWB rectifier has a Vf typ of 1.2V? That's news - very
bad news. I always thought 0.6V was closer to average, per Si diode, and
about half that for Ge diodes. Learned something today.
-Bill B
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:57 PM, Eric M. Jones <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
> emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> > Eric,
> >
> > Am loath to get between you and Bob when discussing electrons but
> > don't understand what you said about bridge diode heat
> > dissipation. If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
> > voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
> > If two diodes in parallel are carrying the same 20 amps then the
> > current is split between the two diodes, with each having more or
> > less half the load with a total of 20 amps between them. So each
> > diode is generating about half of 12 watts with a total
> > generation of still only 12 watts not 24.
> > What am I missing?
> > Tom, AL7AU
>
>
> Tom et al.
>
> If either one or two or a hundred conventional diodes is sharing the load,
> they still dissipate Vf X A. Where A is the current through the device; in
> this case the Full Wave Bridge (FWB) or Schottky Module.
>
> The important point is that Vf is not reduced by putting parts in parallel.
> (But it is increased by putting parts in series....)
>
> (True, each diode carries less current, but the package is what we bolt to
> the heat sink. In fact you can distribute the heat dissipation by
> distributing the parts, and this is done on some designs, since small parts
> have greater surface area per volume, so they might not need a heat sink at
> all.)
>
>
> > If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
> > voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
>
>
> If pigs had wings!....The error I pointed out is the claim that a B & C
> FWB, when wired so that two diodes are parallel, would have a Vf of 0.6. It
> does not; the Vf is often 1.2 maybe, and someone incorrectly assumed that
> the diodes being in parallel made the Vf sum 0.6. The very best conventional
> FWB diodes are 0.9Vf at 10A for each diode (you can't buy these at Radio
> Shack), so it dissipates (2X0.9X10A=) 18W VERY BEST CASE., and 24W worst
> case if the diodes are Vf=1.2.
>
> By the way, FWB packages are just four diodes wired up to four terminals
> and epoxy potted in a little box. You could make your own, but it's easier
> to abandon the concept entirely.
>
> Hope this doesn't scramble it more.
>
> For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.
> -- Richard P. Feynman
>
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187299#187299
>
>
Message 30
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|
Subject: | Re: Bridge Diodes use |
I believe a normal Si diode has a Vf around 0.6V - 0.7V.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode
A bridge rectifier would normally be wired so that two diodes are in
series. However, many of these bridge rectifiers are built to allow
access to all four nodes of the circuit.
http://www.vishay.com/docs/88612/gbpc12.pdf
This datasheet indeed shows a Vf of 1.1V - used as a rectifier. I'm
pretty sure this is measured across the + and - terminals - two diodes in
series.
I believe it has been proposed that these rectifiers be used to feed the
E-bus by shorting across two of the diodes and paralleling the other two,
and a Vf = 0.6V.
I missed the original reference to the B&C guidance that paralleling
dropped the Vf. Please post that if you have it..
Regards,
Matt-
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
>
>> Eric,
>>
>> Am loath to get between you and Bob when discussing electrons but
>> don't understand what you said about bridge diode heat
>> dissipation. If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
>> voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
>> If two diodes in parallel are carrying the same 20 amps then the
>> current is split between the two diodes, with each having more or
>> less half the load with a total of 20 amps between them. So each
>> diode is generating about half of 12 watts with a total
>> generation of still only 12 watts not 24.
>> What am I missing?
>> Tom, AL7AU
>
>
> Tom et al.
>
> If either one or two or a hundred conventional diodes is sharing the load,
> they still dissipate Vf X A. Where A is the current through the device; in
> this case the Full Wave Bridge (FWB) or Schottky Module.
>
> The important point is that Vf is not reduced by putting parts in
> parallel. (But it is increased by putting parts in series....)
>
> (True, each diode carries less current, but the package is what we bolt to
> the heat sink. In fact you can distribute the heat dissipation by
> distributing the parts, and this is done on some designs, since small
> parts have greater surface area per volume, so they might not need a heat
> sink at all.)
>
>
>> If one diode is running 20 amps with a forward
>> voltage of 0.6 then it generates 0.6 x 20 = 12 watts of heat.
>
>
> If pigs had wings!....The error I pointed out is the claim that a B & C
> FWB, when wired so that two diodes are parallel, would have a Vf of 0.6.
> It does not; the Vf is often 1.2 maybe, and someone incorrectly assumed
> that the diodes being in parallel made the Vf sum 0.6. The very best
> conventional FWB diodes are 0.9Vf at 10A for each diode (you can't buy
> these at Radio Shack), so it dissipates (2X0.9X10A=) 18W VERY BEST CASE.,
> and 24W worst case if the diodes are Vf=1.2.
>
> By the way, FWB packages are just four diodes wired up to four terminals
> and epoxy potted in a little box. You could make your own, but it's easier
> to abandon the concept entirely.
>
> Hope this doesn't scramble it more.
>
> For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.
> -- Richard P. Feynman
>
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=187299#187299
>
>
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