---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/02/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:58 AM - Is this splice acceptable? (ianwilson2) 2. 04:50 AM - Electrical Mystery (Chuck Jensen) 3. 05:12 AM - Coil selector (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 4. 05:13 AM - Re: P-Touch Wire Labeling Question (RV4WGH@aol.com) 5. 05:57 AM - Re: Coil selector (n801bh@netzero.com) 6. 06:30 AM - Re: Coil selector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:06 AM - Re: Coil selector (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 8. 08:28 AM - Re: Electrical problems (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 9. 08:49 AM - Re: Electrical Mystery (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 08:54 AM - Re: Coil selector (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 11:37 AM - ignition switch (bob noffs) 12. 12:54 PM - Re: ignition switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 05:13 PM - Re: Coil selector (Ken) 14. 05:54 PM - Re: Wire labeling (Speedy11@aol.com) 15. 06:26 PM - P-Touch Wire Labels (Dennis Johnson) 16. 10:51 PM - P-Touch Wire Labeling Question (DEAN PSIROPOULOS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:08 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Is this splice acceptable? From: "ianwilson2" Hi all, I've just fabricated the link from one of my Jab dynamo leads, connecting this to pin 1 of the regulater and to a 3A in-line fuse, which will eventually go the tach of my EIS. I've posted a picture of how I've linked the 3 wires together and wanted your opinion on whether it's safe or is there a better way to do this? In the picture the white wires on the left are from the dynamo, the white(?) on the right go to the voltage regulater and the red wire at the bottom is the 3A in-line fuse. Am I ok with the piggy-back connector that I've used? Thanks for your time. Ian Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190838#190838 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imgp1641_144.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:22 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Mystery From: "Chuck Jensen" This was related to me by a fellow hangar mate: While taxing to the runway I got a message on my 430 Garmin and the nav/com2 started blinking as if it where loosing power. The Mooney is powered by an 0360 A2F lycoming with a generator charging system.. I had a normal start-up and all was normal. Engine RPM directly after start-up was 700. After a couple of minutes of warm up I take it to 1000 to allow vacuum to increase. I set my radios and instruments then began my taxi. All indications were normal until half way to the runway. I retrieved a message from the 430 that said "no altitude input" and the Nav/Com2 started blinking. RPM was 1200 during taxi. When I stopped for run-up the garmin had shut off completely. I took the RPM to 2000 and it came back on and I was able to reset my destination. All other indications were normal. Amp gauge was showing a positive charge as it normally does. I turned off all my lights and when I dropped the RPM to approximately 1500 the garmin and nav/com2 once again lost power. Is this symptomatic of an electron illness of a particular sort? Chuck Jensen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:06 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector I have a dual electronic ignition going to 2 separate coils. The output of the coils go to a coil selector and the output goes to the distributor and to the single set of plugs. Does anyone have any data on the reliability of the coil selector method. I understand they are very reliable, but it is a single point of failure. Comments please, Thanks, Roger ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:53 AM PST US From: RV4WGH@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P-Touch Wire Labeling Question I have a Brother labeling machine. However, for the wires, I made up labels using a word processor, No. 8 font. Cut them out and used heat shrink over them. Worked great. YMMV. Regards, Wally Hunt RV-4 Finishing Kit **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:04 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector Roger, I have the same set up on my experimental... I have not heard of a single time a coil switcher failing. Feel free to head to my website for further pics on how I did mine or if ya got more time,, get a beer o r two and watch my video thats on google and it will clearly show the co mplete set up.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7272451917550730841&hl=en Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" wrote: I have a dual electronic ignition going to 2 separate coils. The output of the coils go to a coil selector and the output goes to the distribut or and to the single set of plugs. Does anyone have any data on the reliability of the coil selector method . I understand they are very reliable, but it is a single point of fail ure. Comments please, Thanks, Roger ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======= ____________________________________________________________ Sweepstakes!!! Enter for your chance to WIN a summer spa getaway! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/JKFkuJkEQePHob8xRUVur2M6l YeTUthN1ssJ1TtbRoyb4MX2VAjaBL/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector At 08:08 AM 7/2/2008 -0400, you wrote: >I have a dual electronic ignition going to 2 separate coils. The output >of the coils go to a coil selector and the output goes to the distributor >and to the single set of plugs. > > >Does anyone have any data on the reliability of the coil selector >method. I understand they are very reliable, but it is a single point of >failure. The only one I had occasion to take apart was an array of high voltage rectifiers (same as those used in microwave ovens) intended to convey spark energy from either coil to a common load (distributor). Compared to the energy that these rectifiers handle in microwave ovens, their duty as traffic cops in the ignition systems borders on trivial. These should run the lifetime of the airplane. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:11 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector Thanks, Guys, This is what I have been hearing for some time. Just wanted a confirmation. Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:26 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector At 08:08 AM 7/2/2008 -0400, you wrote: >I have a dual electronic ignition going to 2 separate coils. The output >of the coils go to a coil selector and the output goes to the distributor >and to the single set of plugs. > > >Does anyone have any data on the reliability of the coil selector >method. I understand they are very reliable, but it is a single point of >failure. The only one I had occasion to take apart was an array of high voltage rectifiers (same as those used in microwave ovens) intended to convey spark energy from either coil to a common load (distributor). Compared to the energy that these rectifiers handle in microwave ovens, their duty as traffic cops in the ignition systems borders on trivial. These should run the lifetime of the airplane. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:13 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electrical problems It depends on what you are trying to measure with the shunt.....You can mea sure three things..1) Alternator output, 2) electrical load, current going in/out of the battery. It seems to make most sense to measure the alternator output as this should be regulating output depending on load...You can tell if it isn't because you will also be monitoring buss voltage which should always be around 14V. ..You can set an alarm in the EMS to go off at say 12.5V and 15.5V to let y ou know when the alternator is acting up..In reality you don't even need to measure amps if you do this. But anyway assuming you have the shunt installed in the Alternator B lead, the high side will be on the alternator side and the low side will be on th e buss side. You could be measuring negative flow but it will max out at about 4 amps as this is the excitation current...If you want to be sure start adding elctr ical load as you run the motor...If you got say 20 amps worth of load (you can temporarilly hang some 12 v devices off the battery to get the 20 amps or so) and the alternator is putting out minus 20A then you know you have the leads reversed as there is no way the alternator can demand this flow. If the amps stay at -3/4 then the alternator is not charging...What do the battery volts do...it should be about 12V before you start..and rise to 13. 7 to 14.5V when running...If that is the case then the alternator is workin g. As to the erratic tach reading..Are you using points or electronic ignition ?...It sounds like maybe you have a noisy signal coming off the tach connec tion or maybe the volts you are seeing is over volting the Dynon input..... Talk to Dynon as I bet they have a little smoothing circuit you could build . I know several builders have used the WW with the Dynon so i bet they hav e experience of this ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical problems Friends, I have asked these questions directly to several "gurus" and have gotten no response. Maybe someone on this forum can help me out. Since the forum doe s not allow enclosures, I have not attached my electrical schematic. Anyone wishing to help, please contact me directly and I will send a pdf of my sc hematic. I have just begun running the WW-built Corvair 2700 engine on my nearly com pleted Zodiac 601XL. At present, according to my Dynon EMS-D10, I have nega tive 3 or 4 amps output from my alternator. Obviously, I need to find out i f that is actually the case, and if it is, why. 1) Do I have the ammeter shunt correctly connected to the EMS? (Amps Low to the battery side of the shunt; Amps High to the main bus side) 2) I have seen at least four different ways to connect the S704-1 Alternato r OV Disconnect Relay. Do I have mine correctly configured? (Must see sche matic) And on another subject: 3) I have each tach lead from the EMS connected through an in-line, fast bl ow, 0.5amp fuse, to the negative terminal of the coil. When the engine is t urning 2,000 rpm (according to my hand held optical tach) the EMS tach is v ery erratic, reading from 1300 to 1800 rpm, running on either coil. Is the re something I can do to correct this? Thanks in advance - Jay Bannister ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:50 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Mystery Hmmm...yes it does! Does everything else electrical work?...It sounds like a very low voltage..Maybe an internal short in the battery (sulphated maybe) dragging the volts down to less than 10V. The alternator is then desperatly trying to get the volts up but deosn't have enugh output to do that below 1000 rpm. But then again I would expect starting difficulties. First off I wouls chack the major connections..Battery terminals, ening block grounds...especially check the alternator connection to the engine block...I painted my alternator bracket...DUH! And resulting poor connection gave my 430 the fits, switching on and off in flight..took me a while to track it down..What an idiot I was! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:45 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Mystery --> This was related to me by a fellow hangar mate: While taxing to the runway I got a message on my 430 Garmin and the nav/com2 started blinking as if it where loosing power. The Mooney is powered by an 0360 A2F lycoming with a generator charging system.. I had a normal start-up and all was normal. Engine RPM directly after start-up was 700. After a couple of minutes of warm up I take it to 1000 to allow vacuum to increase. I set my radios and instruments then began my taxi. All indications were normal until half way to the runway. I retrieved a message from the 430 that said "no altitude input" and the Nav/Com2 started blinking. RPM was 1200 during taxi. When I stopped for run-up the garmin had shut off completely. I took the RPM to 2000 and it came back on and I was able to reset my destination. All other indications were normal. Amp gauge was showing a positive charge as it normally does. I turned off all my lights and when I dropped the RPM to approximately 1500 the garmin and nav/com2 once again lost power. Is this symptomatic of an electron illness of a particular sort? Chuck Jensen ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:48 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector I think your talking about the coil joiner..A round blob of plastic that ha s 3 high voltage terminals.. If so yes they are Extremely reliable..Its 2 HV diodes..In fact it really i s not a sigle point of failure...its two diodes that can fail indepedantly. ...These have thousands of flight hours on them. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER & JEAN CURTIS Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 5:08 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector I have a dual electronic ignition going to 2 separate coils. The output of the coils go to a coil selector and the output goes to the distributor and to the single set of plugs. Does anyone have any data on the reliability of the coil selector method. I understand they are very reliable, but it is a single point of failure. Comments please, Thanks, Roger ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:34 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: AeroElectric-List: ignition switch hi all, for installation of the acs a-510-2 ignition switch, which is the basic on, off, mag 1, mag 2 etc. switch, instructions say to use shielded wire on all connections. is there potential noise that shielded wire may prevent with all these wires? thanks, bob noffs ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:42 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ignition switch At 01:22 PM 7/2/2008 -0500, you wrote: >hi all, > for installation of the acs a-510-2 ignition switch, which is the basic > on, off, mag 1, mag 2 etc. switch, instructions say to use shielded wire > on all connections. is there potential noise that shielded wire may > prevent with all these wires? > thanks, bob noffs When in doubt . . . or don't KNOW, then shield everything. When you KNOW that the p-leads are the only potential sources for electro-statically coupled noise, then those are the only wires that get shields. It's also a good idea to use the shields AS the ground return for the mag switch and ground the shields at the engine-end only. This will prevent one of the most common ground-loop problems with respect to ignition noise and a less-common but expensive situation where a missing ground jumper between crankcase and airframe is missing or broken. Attempting to start the engine burns the p-leads and any other wires that are bundled with the p-leads. Even if you're installing a Shower-of-Sparks system, the additional wires associated with SOS are not connected to p-leads of a running engine and therefore are not potential emitters of noise. See the Z-figures for exemplar wiring recommendations for the ACS-510 series switches. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:39 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coil selector My memory is that 10 years ago there was a string of 5 or 6 12 kv diodes in each leg of the MSD unit. A dozen years or so ago there was a rumour of a bad batch resulting in a couple that shorted out the back to ground but it would seem they are pretty much bullet-proof. I mounted mine on a piece of plastic for the heck of it. There was some conjecture that you'd never even know if one or more diodes shorted unless you tested the forward voltage drop occasionally. Easy to do for example with a scope and an isolated ac supply. Expect a drop of around 60 volts in each leg. However I don't think it is worth the effort as I've never heard of such a failure occurring. Ken Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > I think your talking about the coil joiner..A round blob of plastic that > has 3 high voltage terminals.. > > If so yes they are Extremely reliable..Its 2 HV diodes..In fact it > really is not a sigle point of failure...its two diodes that can fail > indepedantly....These have thousands of flight hours on them. > > Frank > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *ROGER & JEAN CURTIS > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 02, 2008 5:08 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Coil selector > > I have a dual electronic ignition going to 2 separate coils. The output > of the coils go to a coil selector and the output goes to the > distributor and to the single set of plugs. > > > > Does anyone have any data on the reliability of the coil selector > method. I understand they are very reliable, but it is a single point > of failure. > > > > Comments please, > > > > Thanks, Roger ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:52 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire labeling Hey, Long G, I wish you wouldn't talk about me that way in public. Anyway, I look better unshaven. Short S Do not archive If you don't label wires, you probably have a messy desk, an un-organized garage, are not good at detail work and skip shaving most days. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:55 PM PST US From: "Dennis Johnson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: P-Touch Wire Labels I put the P-touch label on the wire with the long axis of the label aligned with the length of the wire and then slipped a piece of clear heat shrink over the label. It looks great and will last as long as the airplane. Dennis ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:28 PM PST US From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: P-Touch Wire Labeling Question You're not doing anything wrong Dave: I built a full IFR panel with big radio stack and I used the P-Touch PT-1400 portable handheld to label every wire at about 1 foot intervals. I did experience the "unsticking" over time also but cured it with clear heatshrink shrunk over the top of the wrapped labels(I didn't use the flag technique on the 26 GA MAC servo wires, I just noted the color code on the drawings). As one might guess "Frank", this was very time consuming but with the wires made of Teflon and being such small diameter it was necessary to avoid the labels coming off. Definitely worth it though, I know what goes where and when I did my electrical checkout last fall there were only two wires that were swapped (easily fixed). I hope I never have to touch it again but if I do, I'll know exactly what I'm looking at. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Finally finished (FAA Inspection next week, transition training on the 21st) _______________________Original Message ___________________________________ >From: "Dave VanLanen" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: P-Touch Wire Labeling Question >Has anyone else used this tape to "flag" label any of their wires, and if >so, what was your experience? Am I doing something wrong? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.