---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/27/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: IR to ER alternator (Rodney Dunham) 2. 07:03 AM - Success! (Richard Girard) 3. 07:12 AM - Literature source (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:24 AM - Re: Connectors for trim servos? (Rodney Dunham) 5. 08:25 AM - Re: Connectors for trim servos? (Ralph Finch) 6. 09:56 AM - Re: Success! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 10:38 AM - RV-6A For Sale (revised) (Richard Dudley) 8. 10:45 AM - Z-19/RB Question (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 9. 11:50 AM - Re: Z-19/RB Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 02:52 PM - BnC Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v (Jeffrey W. Skiba) 11. 03:45 PM - Re: Z-19/RB Question (mikef) 12. 05:13 PM - Re: Trim noise in Audio speaker () 13. 05:35 PM - Re: BnC Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v (Ron Shannon) 14. 07:29 PM - Re: BnC Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 07:29 PM - Re: Re: Z-19/RB Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 07:29 PM - Re: Trim noise in Audio speaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:47 AM PST US From: Rodney Dunham Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: IR to ER alternator George=2C This is Bob's house.You are a guest.He asked you to go away.In polite socie ty=2C that is enough to make one go away. Rodney in TennesseeUnabashed Nuckollhead DO NOT ARCHIVE _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM _WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:39 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Success! This last week, with trembling hands and fire extinguisher close at hand, I connected the battery to my Kolb Mk III's new electrical system. I used the Z -17 schematic virtually verbatim. I did put in a SPST key switch between the fuse panel and the starter solenoid, but that's about all I deviated from the plan you laid down. To my delight, and relief, all the smoke remained in the wires and everything works. I realize that my system is bare bones simple compared to all of you glass panel folks out there, but this was my first attempt at wiring up an airplane from scratch. Thanks, Bob. Rick Girard Kolb Mk III, returning to the air this week Yippee! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Literature source Stumbled across this site during a websearch: http://home.att.net/%7Ebtuttleman/barrysite.html#ALLISON He offers original and copied manuals on a wide variety of topics and products . . . but in particular interest to us, has a good library of King, Narco and ARC manuals amongst others . . . Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:50 AM PST US From: Rodney Dunham Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Connectors for trim servos? Ralph=2C Those pesky little Ray Allen trim servo wires are a pain in the neck=2C are n't they? A friend of mine recently brought me a Narco AT165 which he had wired to a GRT Enigma EFIS. The EFIS has a low-density 15 pin D-Sub connector which ou tputs the gray (Gillam) scale data to the transponder. He had used a comput er cable which he cut in half and connected the wires to the 18 pin Molex c onnector in the Narco's rack. I liked the idea of the computer cable because it was neat=2C shielded=2C c ontained good quality color-coded stranded wire and made a neat installatio n. That is=2C until you got to the cut end. The 26AWG wires just weren't ro bust enough to serve at the junction between cable and tray connector. Also =2C he had "shielded everything" which is a whole 'nother post:O) At first=2C I discarded the idea of using the cable due to the 26AWG wires. Heck=2C my wire stripper doesn't go smaller than 22AWG! However=2C reality set in as I could not seem to find 9 or more conductor shielded wire in 22 AWG at my local supply house unless I bought 500 feet of it! At over $2 per foot=2C I wasn't going to go there. So=2C how to make 26AWG wire more robust. After all=2C it's plenty good eno ugh to carry microVolts and milliAmps=2C right? Here's what I did. First=2C prepped the cable. Cut the cable back to fresh wire leaving ~1" conductor length. Cut the drain wire flush with the outer insulation and foil shield. Slid medium and large heat shrink over the cable for later. Second=2C prepped the conductors. Stripped the 26AWG wires just enough to accept .062" Molex pins. Slid 1/16" heat shrink (white for signal) over the wire. Crimped on the Molex pins. Pull test to verify good crimp. Slid heat shrink over both insulation and wire grip. Applied heat to heat shrink on individual wires. Now I have a beefed up wire. It's still 26AWG=2C but it is well supported. Repeat for all 9 encoder data wires and 4 grounds for the Enigma. Third=2C populated the intermediate 12 pin Molex connector. Inserted the wires into the holes until click was heard and felt. Gathered the wires together for maximum mutual support. Slid heat shrink up over bundle overlapping cable about an inch. Applied heat to heat shrink over cable and bundle of wires entering Molex. Now I have a beefed up cable to connector junction. Even more support. Fourth=2C prepped wire for 12 pin intermediate Molex to 18 pin Molex Narco tray connector. Cut 18AWG color coded wire from old bundle laying around house. Length minimal to get the wires neatly spread as needed. Had to repeat some colors=2C no biggy. On .062" Molex end used same technic as above to prep wires. On Narco tray end crimped on KK type connectors without heat shrink. The pins would not insert with heat shrink in the way. Fifth=2C populated .062" Molex as in step "Third" above. Sixth=2C populated 18 pin Molex connector on Narco slide-in tray. Seventh=2C created table using MS Word to keep track of all wires=2C wire c olors=2C connectors=2C destinations and functions. Eighth=2C verified table by painstakingly examining each and every wire. Ninth=2C verified continuity between the 15 pin D-sub (origen) and the 18 p in tray connector (destination). What my friend now has is a very neat cable installation that is also quite robust. I can't wait to see if it passes the avionics shop testing process . His wiring job had yielded "ALT INVALID" results and ATC said his altitud e info was wacked. BTW=2C used a second 3 pin .062" Molex conector for the Narco's power and g round wires. It lies right smack on top of the 12 pin connector and looks g reat. These were safetied with plastic tie wraps so they won't work loose. Rodney in TennesseeUnabashed Nuckollhead _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ family_safety_072008 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:32 AM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Connectors for trim servos? Thanks Bob, as usual you have the precise answer... RF -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connectors for trim servos? --> At 12:35 PM 7/26/2008 -0700, you wrote: >--> > >Real basic question: I need to connect the wires (2 power, 3 indicator, >24 or 26 gage?) coming from Ray Allen trim servos to a removable connector. >What's appropriate? D connector, molex, something else? > >Thanks, >Ralph Finch Here's one of several dozen alternatives. http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Success! At 08:57 AM 7/27/2008 -0500, you wrote: >This last week, with trembling hands and fire extinguisher close at hand, >I connected the battery to my Kolb Mk III's new electrical system. I used >the Z -17 schematic virtually verbatim. I did put in a SPST key switch >between the fuse panel and the starter solenoid, but that's about all I >deviated from the plan you laid down. To my delight, and relief, all the >smoke remained in the wires and everything works. I realize that my system >is bare bones simple compared to all of you glass panel folks out there, >but this was my first attempt at wiring up an airplane from scratch. >Thanks, Bob. You're most welcome. I'm pleased that you found your experiences here useful and productive. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:55 AM PST US From: "Richard Dudley" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RV-6A For Sale (revised) Listers, My re-review of the market suggests a revision of asking price. This is one more try here before going to other locations to advertise. A combination of health and financial factors have forced our decision to sell our beloved airplane. If you are seriously looking for a beautiful, well-equipped and flying RV-6A read the description below. RV-6A FOR SALE Completed 2005 Total time <140 hrs O-320-D1A Total time since new <140 hrs Hartzell C/S Prop total time since new <140 hrs Slider Great paint Garmin GNS 430 nav/com SL-30 nav/com Garmin GTX 327transponder Garmin GMA 340 Audio panel Dual CDI with glideslope and coupling to either Nav IFR panel, heated pitot, certified altimeter, encoder, transponder and pitot static system Dual Duckworks landing/taxi lights with Wig-Wag S-Tech System 20 auto pilot/ turn coordinator New main tires Always hangared March 2008 annual Asking: :$95K Serious buyers contact me off line and I'll send you more details. Richard Dudley rhdudley1@bellsouth.net Orlando, FL ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:48 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19/RB Question Bob, In reviewing the Z-19/RB drawing, I have a question regarding the endurance bus feed. There is a diode feed from the main bus, with which I have no problem. However, if the alternator fails and the low voltage module opens the engine battery contactor, there is no way to power the endurance bus from the engine battery. In this case both paths to the endurance bus come from the main battery. Did you intend for this wiring to be this way or should the EBUS ALT FEED connection be made to the engine battery bus instead of to the main battery bus? Roger ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19/RB Question At 01:42 PM 7/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Bob, > > >In reviewing the Z-19/RB drawing, I have a question regarding the >endurance bus feed. There is a diode feed from the main bus, with which I >have no problem. However, if the alternator fails and the low voltage >module opens the engine battery contactor, there is no way to power the >endurance bus from the engine battery. In this case both paths to the >endurance bus come from the main battery. Did you intend for this wiring >to be this way or should the EBUS ALT FEED connection be made to the >engine battery bus instead of to the main battery bus? No, the normal feed is from the main bus which (in normal operations) is powered from the main bus supported by the alternator and two batteries. In case of alternator failure (and with the engine battery switch in the AUTO Mode), the engine battery is automatically separated off to support only the engine. The main battery is still supporting the main bus . . . until the pilot elects to drop to an endurance mode (main battery contactor OFF, alternate feedpath closed). Normally, you would never want to power the endurance bus from the engine battery unless you've suffered multiple-failures (main battery craps). Even then you're probably better off reverting to the J-3 mode with stuff from the flight bag as opposed to burdening the engine battery with keeping the fan running -AND- powering up stuff on the panel. So your observations are correct, there was never any intention of powering the e-bus from the engine battery. However, you ALWAYS have the option of closing both battery contactors and running the whole airplane from both batteries in parallel. The set of circumstances that would make this necessary/attractive are exceedingly rare. If it were my airplane, I'd have to be really hard pressed (and probably il-prepared) to burden the engine battery with more than running the engine. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:44 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" Subject: AeroElectric-List: BnC Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v Does anyone know how much current the Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v listed at the B n c Website can handle ? I tried looking for some kind of data sheet but could not find one... Does it handle better than 130 amps ? May 90 ? Help anyone please. The specs they do list are: This contactor is suited for most applications in amateur built airplanes calling for continuous duty operation including (1) battery master contactor (2) ground power contactor (3)alternator b-lead overvoltage protection (4) dual alternator system crossfeed contactor [order S701-2] and (4) extend/retract control in hydraulic landing gear systems. Supplied with spike suppression diode and battery terminal jumper already installed. Coil resistance is 15 ohms. Contactor Weight is 13 ounces This contactor terminals will use a .31 and #10 ring terminals. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:51 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-19/RB Question From: "mikef" Bob, In normal operations of a Z-19, would you have the EBUS ALT FEED switch turned ON (closed)? Seems that would keep the emergency switch manipulation to just one, the Master OFF. The ENGINE BAT switch in the AUTO position would already disconnect the Engine Battery. Do I have this right? Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195274#195274 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Trim noise in Audio speaker From: Bob, Just a follow-up to eliminating the noise on the Ray Allen aileron trim motor. I tested the 272-1070 first which removed some of the noise when activated, but it was on and off. I took that off and did the six finger test using the 272-1436. Worked like a charm. Not a hint of noise. Peace at last. Thanks --------*****************************------------------------ Sure. Start off with a capacitor wired directly across the motor leads (I presume they're still both white). Refer to schematic at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/PitchTrim.pdf It's not common to have noise issues with these actuators. Let's assume the noise is radiated first. Try the .22 uF capacitor first 272-1070. Try the pair of 272-1436 if the first doesn't work. These need to be tied into the harness as close as practical . . . 2-3 inches outside actuator housing. Please let us know the results of your experiments. If the caps don't get it by themselves, we'll ratchet up a notch. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:37 PM PST US From: "Ron Shannon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: BnC Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v Jeffrey, I don't know the max. continuous rating, but I'm sure it's well in excess of 100A, way more than you would ever need in any usual homebuilt airplane. Of course, intermittently, it will handle a lot more than that, including full starter motor loads. Why not just give B&C a call tomorrow and ask them. Ron On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote: > jskiba@icosa.net> > > Does anyone know how much current the Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v listed > at the B n c Website can handle ? > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: BnC Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v At 04:46 PM 7/27/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Does anyone know how much current the Continuous Duty Contactor 12 v listed >at the B n c Website can handle ? >I tried looking for some kind of data sheet but could not find one... > >Does it handle better than 130 amps ? >May 90 ? See: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Contactors/Stancor-WhiteRogers/Stancor_70-Series.pdf The S701-1 contactor is a Stancor 70-902. It's rated for 80 amps continuous. But like all switches, relays and contactors, the ratings assume that you're going to SWITCH those loads. In the case of a battery conactor, loads seldom exceed tens of amps when the battery master is turned on. By the time the starter is engaged, the battery contactor is closed and stable. An alrady closed switch will carry several times its rated current for short periods of time (like cranking an engine) without serious degradation of service life. How are you using it that its ratings are a concern? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-19/RB Question At 03:40 PM 7/27/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob, > >In normal operations of a Z-19, would you have the EBUS ALT FEED switch >turned ON (closed)? Seems that would keep the emergency switch >manipulation to just one, the Master OFF. The ENGINE BAT switch in the >AUTO position would already disconnect the Engine Battery. > > >Do I have this right? Thanks, You can if you wish. However, it's an ALTERNATE feed path and needs to be pre-flight tested. I'd turn it ON first thing and get the ATIS and clearance delivery. Then shut it OFF, start the engine, and leave it off until such time as needed to mitigate the effects of an alternator failure. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:26 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Trim noise in Audio speaker At 08:07 PM 7/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: Good data points sir. I'll file them away for future reference Thanks! >Bob, >Just a follow-up to eliminating the noise on the Ray Allen aileron trim >motor. I tested the 272-1070 first which removed some of the noise when >activated, but it was on and off. I took that off and did the six finger >test using the 272-1436. Worked like a charm. Not a hint of noise. Peace >at last. >--------*****************************------------------------ > Sure. Start off with a capacitor wired directly across the > motor leads (I presume they're still both white). Refer > to schematic at: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/PitchTrim.pdf > > It's not common to have noise issues with these actuators. > Let's assume the noise is radiated first. Try the .22 uF > capacitor first 272-1070. Try the pair of 272-1436 if > the first doesn't work. These need to be tied into the harness > as close as practical . . . 2-3 inches outside actuator > housing. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.