AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 08/02/08


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:03 AM - Re: Transpo V1200 regulator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 09:08 AM - Re: Transpo V1200 regulator (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
     3. 09:29 AM - vm1000 DPU orientation (tom sargent)
     4. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Why can't the tower hear me? (Steve Ruse)
     5. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Why can't the tower hear me? (Charlie England)
     6. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: Why can't the tower hear me? (Steve Ruse)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:03:29 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Transpo V1200 regulator
    At 11:35 PM 8/1/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Okay, I tried looking at some old posts to help me figure out how to wire >a regulator I have but I think it just confused me more&. > > >I have a Transpo V1200 regulator for a high amp output Alternator aka: > ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Transpo/V1200_Transpo.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Transpo/V1200_Transpo.pdf > > >Question is what all connects to all the terminals listed? > >The label just shows: > >I > >A > >S > >F > > >Stator Output my guess is leave disconnected maybe use for testing ? Here's the only data I've been able to find on the V1200 to date. It speaks to a lot of its capabilities but gives nothing in the way of a wiring diagram. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Transpo/V1200_Transpo.pdf The "IASF" convention for alternator regulator labels has been around for some time. For the most part, they're consistent in terms of function. "I" terminal is a pull-down connection to illuminate an alternator fail light that is tied to the bus. If you have a low voltage warning system in your airplane, this terminal can be ignored. The "A" terminal supplies alternator field current and is probalby the bus voltage sense wire as well. It goes to a 5A breaker or fuse on your main bus. The "F" terminal connects to the alternator's field terminal. Some alternators have both field terminals brought out. If you have two field terminals, ground one and power the other from the regulator's "F" terminal. The "S" terminal was originally used to sense voltage at the center terminal of a "Wye wound" alternator. Even when no field excitation was applied, the "S" terminal would have a small voltage on it derived from the residual magnetism of the rotor as soon as the alternator was spun up by the engine. This voltage was used to close a field excitation control relay . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_EM_Reg_Field_Relay.jpg and the left device in . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_EM_Reg.jpg This feature kept the alternator from drawing field current after the ignition switch was turned on and the engine not yet running. Without seeing schematics and/or having lucid explanations from the manufacturer (Transpo) I would assume that the "S" terminal still functions in the same manner when the regulator is used on alternators with the Wye-wound center tap brought to the outside world. When the stator tap terminal is not present, the regulator still needs to be told that it's time to go to work and we tie the "S" terminal to the "A" terminal so that both are powered up at the same time. This convention is observed in the Z-figures where I've illustrated the generic "ford" regulators. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z11L.pdf The data sheet speaks to B+ and B- terminals, also S1 and S2. If they are present on your V1200, I have no idea what S1 and S2 are for. >B- my guess is ground here&. Good guess. > > >Can anybody find a manual on what goes where? Or more to the point how to >incorporate it into the Z diagrams ? Z-11 cited above is close if not an exact regulator wiring diagram for the V1200. When our drive stand is up and running, I'll acquire a V1200 and explore its features in more detail. In the mean time, if anyone stumbles across some third party wiring diagrams for Transpo or any other popular product, I'd be pleased to acquire those also for mirroring on my website. Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:08:13 AM PST US
    From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
    Subject: Transpo V1200 regulator
    Okay, I spent a little time poking around with the harness that came with the regulator - high output alternator and attached is what I found, does this help at all ? or just ask more questions ? It looks like I and A are tied together from the main output terminal of the alternator ! NOTE: the relay CAME with the harness and I am told the on off for the relay is from the ignition circuit or switch. My main concern is why they took power into I and A from the main output of the alternator with no fuse or wire protection ? and how do I tie this into the Z figures?? Same as below ? This unit is suppose to have OV protection and all that so No crow bar is required. Thanks Jeff. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transpo V1200 regulator <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> At 11:35 PM 8/1/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Okay, I tried looking at some old posts to help me figure out how to wire >a regulator I have but I think it just confused me more&. > > >I have a Transpo V1200 regulator for a high amp output Alternator aka: > ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Transpo/V1200_Transpo.pdf >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Transpo/V1200_Transpo.pdf > > >Question is what all connects to all the terminals listed? > >The label just shows: > >I > >A > >S > >F > > >Stator Output my guess is leave disconnected maybe use for testing ? Here's the only data I've been able to find on the V1200 to date. It speaks to a lot of its capabilities but gives nothing in the way of a wiring diagram. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Transpo/V1200_Transpo.pdf The "IASF" convention for alternator regulator labels has been around for some time. For the most part, they're consistent in terms of function. "I" terminal is a pull-down connection to illuminate an alternator fail light that is tied to the bus. If you have a low voltage warning system in your airplane, this terminal can be ignored. The "A" terminal supplies alternator field current and is probalby the bus voltage sense wire as well. It goes to a 5A breaker or fuse on your main bus. The "F" terminal connects to the alternator's field terminal. Some alternators have both field terminals brought out. If you have two field terminals, ground one and power the other from the regulator's "F" terminal. The "S" terminal was originally used to sense voltage at the center terminal of a "Wye wound" alternator. Even when no field excitation was applied, the "S" terminal would have a small voltage on it derived from the residual magnetism of the rotor as soon as the alternator was spun up by the engine. This voltage was used to close a field excitation control relay . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_EM_Reg_Field_Relay.jpg and the left device in . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_EM_Reg.jpg This feature kept the alternator from drawing field current after the ignition switch was turned on and the engine not yet running. Without seeing schematics and/or having lucid explanations from the manufacturer (Transpo) I would assume that the "S" terminal still functions in the same manner when the regulator is used on alternators with the Wye-wound center tap brought to the outside world. When the stator tap terminal is not present, the regulator still needs to be told that it's time to go to work and we tie the "S" terminal to the "A" terminal so that both are powered up at the same time. This convention is observed in the Z-figures where I've illustrated the generic "ford" regulators. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z11L.pdf The data sheet speaks to B+ and B- terminals, also S1 and S2. If they are present on your V1200, I have no idea what S1 and S2 are for. >B- my guess is ground here&. Good guess. > > >Can anybody find a manual on what goes where? Or more to the point how to >incorporate it into the Z diagrams ? Z-11 cited above is close if not an exact regulator wiring diagram for the V1200. When our drive stand is up and running, I'll acquire a V1200 and explore its features in more detail. In the mean time, if anyone stumbles across some third party wiring diagrams for Transpo or any other popular product, I'd be pleased to acquire those also for mirroring on my website. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:29:06 AM PST US
    From: tom sargent <sarg314@comcast.net>
    Subject: vm1000 DPU orientation
    I have an old Vision Micro VM1000. Does any one recall if there is any orientation restriction on the DPU (digital processor unit) box? The manual doesn't indicate any preference, but the thing does have some socketed parts in it, which will be upside down if I mount it the way I want to. There might be a slightly greater chance of vibration making a part back out of its socket over a long period of time. Thanks, -- Tom S., RV-6A


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:06:37 PM PST US
    From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
    Subject: Re: RE: Why can't the tower hear me?
    A little new information on this. To refresh everyone's memory, I have a handheld with a homemade external antenna (brass brazing rod on the bottom of the nose, with a ground plane). I have no problems whatsoever communicating air to air, even up to 125 miles, and I have flown into multiple class D areas with no trouble at all (KFTW - 118.3, KAFW - 120.825, KDTO - 119.95, KADM - 118.5, and others). Everyone reports my signal as loud and clear, EXCEPT the tower at KOUN (118.0). This morning, I was flying out of KOUN again and got some new information that might be helpful. On the ground, they could hear me very clearly on 121.6. As soon as I switched to 118.0 though, they said my transmission was garbled and unreadable (still on the ground, nothing had changed but the frequency). So, I know I can transmit clearly on 118.3. However, apparently it is not so clear on 118.0. I can hear the tower clearly on 118.0. I've read that an antenna that receives well will also transmit well...this makes me think the antenna is probably good. Is it possible that the digital tuner on my handheld is not tuning correctly? I know, I need to get another handheld in the plane to see if I have the same problem. My radio is a three year old Vertex Standard VXA-150. Anyway, my primary question is, can anyone shed light on why I am not able to transmit clearly on 118.0? Where should I look first to try and solve this problem? I realize that 118.0 is at the very bottom of the aviation band, which made me think maybe my antenna length is off just slightly. I am going to measure that to verify. On that note, what is the exact length of the antenna with respect to the ground plane that I should measure? It is a brass rod sticking through an aluminum plate with nylon spacers as insulators. The brass rod sticks up above the ground plane about 1/2" or so on top. Could that small unshielded portion cause a problem, or is it too small to be a factor, and only the primary antenna length below the ground plane matters? Thanks for any help, Steve Ruse ----- Original Message ----- From: H. M. Haught Jr. To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? Cordiality wasn't in evidence at KOUN. I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't their fault that my radio was junk, but they would give me light signals to get me out. I tried to explain that I've had the radio worked on a number of times and their facility was the only place I was having any trouble, which was true at the time, and got the reply - "If you want light signals to get out, then tell me, but don't blame our equipment for your radio problems." I was on a telephone talking to them from the service office - wouldn't see me face to face. They see lots of high power stuff and cater to it - my old ratty looking Pacer was consider "junk". I took the light signals and the radio was working fine by the time I got to the end of the taxiway. Called up OK City immediately after leaving the pattern, had radio check and was told "five x five". Next time I go in, (I've got my hand held set up on an external antenna as a backup radio ), as soon as I power down, I'm going to call up tower for radio check on the Icom, and then do the same thing with the handheld on rubber ducky antenna. Next day, if I have problems, I'll try the rubber ducky antenna again, as using the external antenna on the hand held also resulted in unreadable transmissions. Just doesn't make sense that two different radios are having the same problem on the same day. M. Haught Greg Young wrote: <gyoung@cs-sol.com> I've called our tower a couple of times and found them to be very cordial and very much interested to hear from pilots. If the chief/supv is not on then ask for the controller in charge. It's amazing what you can learn and what they are already aware of. I called about a "trainee" who after at least a year on duty totally lost track of only 3 airplanes (I was one of them) while working ground. Turns out that what everyone thought was a trainee is a burn-out 2 weeks away from mandatory retirement. They were well aware of the problem and keeping him on duties where he couldn't hurt anyone. Yup, makes one proud of the system. Regards, Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? --> <aerobubba@earthlink.net> Hi All- Sounds like perhaps it's time for phone calls to the tower chief to make sure that he/she knows of the issue. If that gets no results, a letter to the regional office. Make sure to delineate all the steps you guys have taken to verify your own equipment ops. You can also call them to let them on the phone to coordinate a NORDO arrival. Just be sure to review the light gun signals. Also, remember to keep you Piet under 200 KIAS ;-) As an aside, I've a good friend who is a controller who has provided me with various insights. Included in those were that although they can't upgrade equipment, they do get new leather furniture. Makes one proud of the system. glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:00:21 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: Why can't the tower hear me?
    Do you have the same problem approaching KOUN from the air on 118.0? Have you tried air to air with a friend on 118.0 (far from KOUN)? Have you tried going to an uncontrolled field far away from KOUN with a friend who's got a known-good radio on 118.0, going to opposite ends of the field & talking to each other ground to ground? Have you tried substituting a different handheld hooked to your antenna at KOUN? I'm still betting on the tower having the problem, but obviously, that's a hard sell if you have arrogant jerks in the tower. If you test your radio against other radios on 118.0 & it works ok, I'd try going further up the food chain. I've read somewhere that the FAA now has a phone number that allows you to bypass the chain of authority & go straight to the top when you have unresolvable issues with local personnel. Sorry I can't offer the number because I haven't had need to use it lately. (I typically avoid controlled fields.) Charlie Steve Ruse wrote: > A little new information on this. To refresh everyone's memory, I have a handheld with a homemade external antenna (brass brazing rod on the bottom of the nose, with a ground plane). I have no problems whatsoever communicating air to air, even up to 125 miles, and I have flown into multiple class D areas with no trouble at all (KFTW - 118.3, KAFW - 120.825, KDTO - 119.95, KADM - 118.5, and others). Everyone reports my signal as loud and clear, EXCEPT the tower at KOUN (118.0). > > This morning, I was flying out of KOUN again and got some new information that might be helpful. On the ground, they could hear me very clearly on 121.6. As soon as I switched to 118.0 though, they said my transmission was garbled and unreadable (still on the ground, nothing had changed but the frequency). > > So, I know I can transmit clearly on 118.3. However, apparently it is not so clear on 118.0. I can hear the tower clearly on 118.0. I've read that an antenna that receives well will also transmit well...this makes me think the antenna is probably good. Is it possible that the digital tuner on my handheld is not tuning correctly? I know, I need to get another handheld in the plane to see if I have the same problem. My radio is a three year old Vertex Standard VXA-150. > > Anyway, my primary question is, can anyone shed light on why I am not able to transmit clearly on 118.0? Where should I look first to try and solve this problem? I realize that 118.0 is at the very bottom of the aviation band, which made me think maybe my antenna length is off just slightly. I am going to measure that to verify. On that note, what is the exact length of the antenna with respect to the ground plane that I should measure? It is a brass rod sticking through an aluminum plate with nylon spacers as insulators. The brass rod sticks up above the ground plane about 1/2" or so on top. Could that small unshielded portion cause a problem, or is it too small to be a factor, and only the primary antenna length below the ground plane matters? > > Thanks for any help, > > Steve Ruse > ----- Original Message ----- > From: H. M. Haught Jr. > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? > > > Cordiality wasn't in evidence at KOUN. I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't their fault that my radio was junk, but they would give me light signals to get me out. I tried to explain that I've had the radio worked on a number of times and their facility was the only place I was having any trouble, which was true at the time, and got the reply - "If you want light signals to get out, then tell me, but don't blame our equipment for your radio problems." I was on a telephone talking to them from the service office - wouldn't see me face to face. They see lots of high power stuff and cater to it - my old ratty looking Pacer was consider "junk". I took the light signals and the radio was working fine by the time I got to the end of the taxiway. Called up OK City immediately after leaving the pattern, had radio check and was told "five x five". Next time I go in, (I've got my hand held set up on an external antenna as a backup radio ), as soon as I power down, I'm going to call up tower for radio check on the Icom, and then do the same thing with the handheld on rubber ducky antenna. Next day, if I have problems, I'll try the rubber ducky antenna again, as using the external antenna on the hand held also resulted in unreadable transmissions. Just doesn't make sense that two different radios are having the same problem on the same day. > > M. Haught > > > Greg Young wrote: > > I've called our tower a couple of times and found them to be very cordial > and very much interested to hear from pilots. If the chief/supv is not on > then ask for the controller in charge. It's amazing what you can learn and > what they are already aware of. I called about a "trainee" who after at > least a year on duty totally lost track of only 3 airplanes (I was one of > them) while working ground. Turns out that what everyone thought was a > trainee is a burn-out 2 weeks away from mandatory retirement. They were well > aware of the problem and keeping him on duties where he couldn't hurt > anyone. Yup, makes one proud of the system. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of glen matejcek > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? > > --> <aerobubba@earthlink.net> > > Hi All- > > Sounds like perhaps it's time for phone calls to the tower > chief to make sure that he/she knows of the issue. If that > gets no results, a letter to the regional office. Make sure > to delineate all the steps you guys have taken to verify your > own equipment ops. > > You can also call them to let them on the phone to coordinate > a NORDO arrival. Just be sure to review the light gun > signals. Also, remember to keep you Piet under 200 KIAS ;-) > > As an aside, I've a good friend who is a controller who has > provided me with various insights. Included in those were > that although they can't upgrade equipment, they do get new > leather furniture. Makes one proud of the system. > > glen matejcek > aerobubba@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:54:00 PM PST US
    From: "Steve Ruse" <steve@wotelectronics.com>
    Subject: Re: RE: Why can't the tower hear me?
    Charlie, Thanks for the suggestions, those will definitely help narrow down the problem. My plane is based on a small grass strip, and I typically avoid towered fields too, but sometimes they are necessary. Unfortunately, the only one I have a problem with is right in my backyard. Thanks for the tips, I'll post again when I find something. Steve Ruse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? > <ceengland@bellsouth.net> > > Do you have the same problem approaching KOUN from the air on 118.0? > > Have you tried air to air with a friend on 118.0 (far from KOUN)? > > Have you tried going to an uncontrolled field far away from KOUN with a > friend who's got a known-good radio on 118.0, going to opposite ends of > the field & talking to each other ground to ground? > > Have you tried substituting a different handheld hooked to your antenna at > KOUN? > > I'm still betting on the tower having the problem, but obviously, that's a > hard sell if you have arrogant jerks in the tower. > > If you test your radio against other radios on 118.0 & it works ok, I'd > try going further up the food chain. I've read somewhere that the FAA now > has a phone number that allows you to bypass the chain of authority & go > straight to the top when you have unresolvable issues with local > personnel. Sorry I can't offer the number because I haven't had need to > use it lately. (I typically avoid controlled fields.) > > Charlie > > Steve Ruse wrote: >> A little new information on this. To refresh everyone's memory, I have a >> handheld with a homemade external antenna (brass brazing rod on the >> bottom of the nose, with a ground plane). I have no problems whatsoever >> communicating air to air, even up to 125 miles, and I have flown into >> multiple class D areas with no trouble at all (KFTW - 118.3, KAFW - >> 120.825, KDTO - 119.95, KADM - 118.5, and others). Everyone reports my >> signal as loud and clear, EXCEPT the tower at KOUN (118.0). >> >> This morning, I was flying out of KOUN again and got some new information >> that might be helpful. On the ground, they could hear me very clearly on >> 121.6. As soon as I switched to 118.0 though, they said my transmission >> was garbled and unreadable (still on the ground, nothing had changed but >> the frequency). >> >> So, I know I can transmit clearly on 118.3. However, apparently it is >> not so clear on 118.0. I can hear the tower clearly on 118.0. I've read >> that an antenna that receives well will also transmit well...this makes >> me think the antenna is probably good. Is it possible that the digital >> tuner on my handheld is not tuning correctly? I know, I need to get >> another handheld in the plane to see if I have the same problem. My >> radio is a three year old Vertex Standard VXA-150. >> >> Anyway, my primary question is, can anyone shed light on why I am not >> able to transmit clearly on 118.0? Where should I look first to try and >> solve this problem? I realize that 118.0 is at the very bottom of the >> aviation band, which made me think maybe my antenna length is off just >> slightly. I am going to measure that to verify. On that note, what is >> the exact length of the antenna with respect to the ground plane that I >> should measure? It is a brass rod sticking through an aluminum plate >> with nylon spacers as insulators. The brass rod sticks up above the >> ground plane about 1/2" or so on top. Could that small unshielded >> portion cause a problem, or is it too small to be a factor, and only the >> primary antenna length below the ground plane matters? >> >> Thanks for any help, >> >> Steve Ruse >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: H. M. Haught Jr. To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: >> Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:22 PM >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? >> >> >> Cordiality wasn't in evidence at KOUN. I was told in no uncertain >> terms that it wasn't their fault that my radio was junk, but they would >> give me light signals to get me out. I tried to explain that I've had >> the radio worked on a number of times and their facility was the only >> place I was having any trouble, which was true at the time, and got the >> reply - "If you want light signals to get out, then tell me, but don't >> blame our equipment for your radio problems." I was on a telephone >> talking to them from the service office - wouldn't see me face to face. >> They see lots of high power stuff and cater to it - my old ratty looking >> Pacer was consider "junk". I took the light signals and the radio was >> working fine by the time I got to the end of the taxiway. Called up OK >> City immediately after leaving the pattern, had radio check and was told >> "five x five". Next time I go in, (I've got my hand held set up on an >> external antenna as a backup radio ), as soon as I power down! > , I'm going to call up tower for radio check on the Icom, and then do the > same thing with the handheld on rubber ducky antenna. Next day, if I have > problems, I'll try the rubber ducky antenna again, as using the external > antenna on the hand held also resulted in unreadable transmissions. Just > doesn't make sense that two different radios are having the same problem > on the same day. >> >> M. Haught >> >> <gyoung@cs-sol.com> >> >> I've called our tower a couple of times and found them to be very cordial >> and very much interested to hear from pilots. If the chief/supv is not on >> then ask for the controller in charge. It's amazing what you can learn >> and >> what they are already aware of. I called about a "trainee" who after at >> least a year on duty totally lost track of only 3 airplanes (I was one of >> them) while working ground. Turns out that what everyone thought was a >> trainee is a burn-out 2 weeks away from mandatory retirement. They were >> well >> aware of the problem and keeping him on duties where he couldn't hurt >> anyone. Yup, makes one proud of the system. >> >> Regards, >> Greg Young >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen >> matejcek >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM >> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? >> >> <aerobubba@earthlink.net> >> >> Hi All- >> >> Sounds like perhaps it's time for phone calls to the tower chief to make >> sure that he/she knows of the issue. If that gets no results, a letter >> to the regional office. Make sure to delineate all the steps you guys >> have taken to verify your own equipment ops. >> You can also call them to let them on the phone to coordinate a NORDO >> arrival. Just be sure to review the light gun signals. Also, remember >> to keep you Piet under 200 KIAS ;-) >> >> As an aside, I've a good friend who is a controller who has provided me >> with various insights. Included in those were that although they can't >> upgrade equipment, they do get new leather furniture. Makes one proud of >> the system. >> >> glen matejcek >> aerobubba@earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >> > > >




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