---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/03/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Why can't the tower hear me? (Robert Feldtman) 2. 02:21 PM - Re: Broken Low Voltage Module (Bill Bradburry) 3. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Why can't the tower hear me? (Steve Ruse) 4. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Why can't the tower hear me? (Robert Feldtman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:51 AM PST US From: "Robert Feldtman" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? I just plugged in my handheld vertex into the extra antenna on my glastar - over Austin. Received the usual spark plugs ignition noise my Apollo GX65 hears; but when the approach transmitted, the intermodulation on the vertex was terrible. Vertex is Yaesu I believe, and my 2 meter ham radio goes nuts in certain parts of Houston (we call it RF alley) on I-59- so - intermod, usually affects received signals, but who knows maybe in these "cheap" little radios, other equipment on the field might also affect it. Do you have anything else "on" in the plane? I'd say it is not the antenna. best advice, you have already been given - test it with another plane or two on that frequency, and confirm it is okay before you get into it with the FAA. I do believe they have the worst radios on the aviation band however. I always have to turn the squelch "off" to hear them in my glastar - but the garmin in my 500B receives them well. bobf W5RF On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Steve Ruse wrote: > A little new information on this. To refresh everyone's memory, I have a > handheld with a homemade external antenna (brass brazing rod on the bottom > of the nose, with a ground plane). I have no problems whatsoever > communicating air to air, even up to 125 miles, and I have flown into > multiple class D areas with no trouble at all (KFTW - 118.3, KAFW - 120.825, > KDTO - 119.95, KADM - 118.5, and others). Everyone reports my signal as > loud and clear, EXCEPT the tower at KOUN (118.0). > > This morning, I was flying out of KOUN again and got some new information > that might be helpful. On the ground, they could hear me very clearly on > 121.6. As soon as I switched to 118.0 though, they said my transmission was > garbled and unreadable (still on the ground, nothing had changed but the > frequency). > > So, I know I can transmit clearly on 118.3. However, apparently it is not > so clear on 118.0. I can hear the tower clearly on 118.0. I've read that > an antenna that receives well will also transmit well...this makes me think > the antenna is probably good. Is it possible that the digital tuner on my > handheld is not tuning correctly? I know, I need to get another handheld in > the plane to see if I have the same problem. My radio is a three year old > Vertex Standard VXA-150. > > Anyway, my primary question is, can anyone shed light on why I am not able > to transmit clearly on 118.0? Where should I look first to try and solve > this problem? I realize that 118.0 is at the very bottom of the aviation > band, which made me think maybe my antenna length is off just slightly. I > am going to measure that to verify. On that note, what is the exact length > of the antenna with respect to the ground plane that I should measure? It > is a brass rod sticking through an aluminum plate with nylon spacers as > insulators. The brass rod sticks up above the ground plane about 1/2" or so > on top. Could that small unshielded portion cause a problem, or is it too > small to be a factor, and only the primary antenna length below the ground > plane matters? > > Thanks for any help, > > Steve Ruse > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* H. M. Haught Jr. > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? > > Cordiality wasn't in evidence at KOUN. I was told in no uncertain terms > that it wasn't their fault that my radio was junk, but they would give me > light signals to get me out. I tried to explain that I've had the radio > worked on a number of times and their facility was the only place I was > having any trouble, which was true at the time, and got the reply - "If you > want light signals to get out, then tell me, but don't blame our equipment > for your radio problems." I was on a telephone talking to them from the > service office - wouldn't see me face to face. They see lots of high power > stuff and cater to it - my old ratty looking Pacer was consider "junk". I > took the light signals and the radio was working fine by the time I got to > the end of the taxiway. Called up OK City immediately after leaving the > pattern, had radio check and was told "five x five". Next time I go in, > (I've got my hand held set up on an external antenna as a backup radio ), as > soon as I power down, I'm going to call up tower for radio check on the > Icom, and then do the same thing with the handheld on rubber ducky antenna. > Next day, if I have problems, I'll try the rubber ducky antenna again, as > using the external antenna on the hand held also resulted in unreadable > transmissions. Just doesn't make sense that two different radios are having > the same problem on the same day. > > M. Haught > > > Greg Young wrote: > > > I've called our tower a couple of times and found them to be very cordial > and very much interested to hear from pilots. If the chief/supv is not on > then ask for the controller in charge. It's amazing what you can learn and > what they are already aware of. I called about a "trainee" who after at > least a year on duty totally lost track of only 3 airplanes (I was one of > them) while working ground. Turns out that what everyone thought was a > trainee is a burn-out 2 weeks away from mandatory retirement. They were well > aware of the problem and keeping him on duties where he couldn't hurt > anyone. Yup, makes one proud of the system. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On > Behalf Of glen matejcek > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM > To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server > Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? > > --> > > Hi All- > > Sounds like perhaps it's time for phone calls to the tower > chief to make sure that he/she knows of the issue. If that > gets no results, a letter to the regional office. Make sure > to delineate all the steps you guys have taken to verify your > own equipment ops. > > You can also call them to let them on the phone to coordinate > a NORDO arrival. Just be sure to review the light gun > signals. Also, remember to keep you Piet under 200 KIAS ;-) > > As an aside, I've a good friend who is a controller who has > provided me with various insights. Included in those were > that although they can't upgrade equipment, they do get new > leather furniture. Makes one proud of the system. > > glen matejcekaerobubba@earthlink.net > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:46 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Broken Low Voltage Module Hi Bob, I don't know if you missed my last inquiry, but I haven't seen a response. You were going to pot the back of the low voltage module and send it back. That has been several weeks and I have not seen it as yet. Did you send it? If so, it must be lost in the mail. Let me know. I would like to reinstall it and check my plane wiring to see if I can determine the problem. Thanks for your help. Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 1:29 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Broken Low Voltage Module --> Bob, I was out of town for three weeks and thought that I would find the board in my mail when I returned, but it was not there. Did you manage to get it out?? Thanks, Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Broken Low Voltage Module --> At 12:00 PM 7/6/2008 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi Bob. > >Have you had a chance to take a look at my low voltage module yet? > >Bill B Yes. Aside from more corrosion than I would like to see, both the instrument and ECB are functional as advertised. I've cleaned the board and plan to conformal coat before I return them. Leaving for ML in a few hours but will be back in shop Wednesday. I can probably get it out then. What ever difficulties you're experiencing must be in ship's wiring. Bob . . . >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill >Bradburry >Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:29 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Broken Low Voltage Module > >--> > >Great! >Thanks Bob! > >Bill B > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Robert L. >Nuckolls, III >Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:55 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Broken Low Voltage Module > >--> > >At 10:54 PM 6/16/2008 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >Bob, > >I sent the board in a couple of weeks ago. It should have been > >waiting for you when you returned from your vacation to California. > >I never heard if you found it ok. > > > >Have you had a chance to take a look at it, and if so, what did you > >discover? > > > >Bill B > > It's laying on the desk right in front of me. I was thinking > this morning that I could probably get to it this evening. > I've been on travel quite a bit but there's a breathing spell > coming up. > > Bob . . . > > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >5:26 AM Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:01 PM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? My plane actually has no engine driven electrical system, just a 12v battery that runs the radio, intercom and GPS. My wires are all shielded (including plug wires), and the plane has almost no electronics so noise sources are minimal. Today, I did another test that sheds a lot of light on the situation. >From 2,500', I called the tower from less than 6 miles out. My friend in his plane a few miles away reported that he could hear me loud and clear, but the tower said I was garbled and unreadable. To me, that indicates that some combination of factors between my radio and theirs is causing problems. At what point should I try to address it with them? I doubt they will care about my problem if no one else is having problems. Thanks for any tips. Steve Ruse ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Feldtman To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 12:29 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? I just plugged in my handheld vertex into the extra antenna on my glastar - over Austin. Received the usual spark plugs ignition noise my Apollo GX65 hears; but when the approach transmitted, the intermodulation on the vertex was terrible. Vertex is Yaesu I believe, and my 2 meter ham radio goes nuts in certain parts of Houston (we call it RF alley) on I-59- so - intermod, usually affects received signals, but who knows maybe in these "cheap" little radios, other equipment on the field might also affect it. Do you have anything else "on" in the plane? I'd say it is not the antenna. best advice, you have already been given - test it with another plane or two on that frequency, and confirm it is okay before you get into it with the FAA. I do believe they have the worst radios on the aviation band however. I always have to turn the squelch "off" to hear them in my glastar - but the garmin in my 500B receives them well. bobf W5RF On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Steve Ruse wrote: A little new information on this. To refresh everyone's memory, I have a handheld with a homemade external antenna (brass brazing rod on the bottom of the nose, with a ground plane). I have no problems whatsoever communicating air to air, even up to 125 miles, and I have flown into multiple class D areas with no trouble at all (KFTW - 118.3, KAFW - 120.825, KDTO - 119.95, KADM - 118.5, and others). Everyone reports my signal as loud and clear, EXCEPT the tower at KOUN (118.0). This morning, I was flying out of KOUN again and got some new information that might be helpful. On the ground, they could hear me very clearly on 121.6. As soon as I switched to 118.0 though, they said my transmission was garbled and unreadable (still on the ground, nothing had changed but the frequency). So, I know I can transmit clearly on 118.3. However, apparently it is not so clear on 118.0. I can hear the tower clearly on 118.0. I've read that an antenna that receives well will also transmit well...this makes me think the antenna is probably good. Is it possible that the digital tuner on my handheld is not tuning correctly? I know, I need to get another handheld in the plane to see if I have the same problem. My radio is a three year old Vertex Standard VXA-150. Anyway, my primary question is, can anyone shed light on why I am not able to transmit clearly on 118.0? Where should I look first to try and solve this problem? I realize that 118.0 is at the very bottom of the aviation band, which made me think maybe my antenna length is off just slightly. I am going to measure that to verify. On that note, what is the exact length of the antenna with respect to the ground plane that I should measure? It is a brass rod sticking through an aluminum plate with nylon spacers as insulators. The brass rod sticks up above the ground plane about 1/2" or so on top. Could that small unshielded portion cause a problem, or is it too small to be a factor, and only the primary antenna length below the ground plane matters? Thanks for any help, Steve Ruse ----- Original Message ----- From: H. M. Haught Jr. To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? Cordiality wasn't in evidence at KOUN. I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't their fault that my radio was junk, but they would give me light signals to get me out. I tried to explain that I've had the radio worked on a number of times and their facility was the only place I was having any trouble, which was true at the time, and got the reply - "If you want light signals to get out, then tell me, but don't blame our equipment for your radio problems." I was on a telephone talking to them from the service office - wouldn't see me face to face. They see lots of high power stuff and cater to it - my old ratty looking Pacer was consider "junk". I took the light signals and the radio was working fine by the time I got to the end of the taxiway. Called up OK City immediately after leaving the pattern, had radio check and was told "five x five". Next time I go in, (I've got my hand held set up on an external antenna as a backup radio ), as soon as I power down, I'm going to call up tower for radio check on the Icom, and then do the same thing with the handheld on rubber ducky antenna. Next day, if I have problems, I'll try the rubber ducky antenna again, as using the external antenna on the hand held also resulted in unreadable transmissions. Just doesn't make sense that two different radios are having the same problem on the same day. M. Haught Greg Young wrote: I've called our tower a couple of times and found them to be very cordial and very much interested to hear from pilots. If the chief/supv is not on then ask for the controller in charge. It's amazing what you can learn and what they are already aware of. I called about a "trainee" who after at least a year on duty totally lost track of only 3 airplanes (I was one of them) while working ground. Turns out that what everyone thought was a trainee is a burn-out 2 weeks away from mandatory retirement. They were well aware of the problem and keeping him on duties where he couldn't hurt anyone. Yup, makes one proud of the system. Regards, Greg Young -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? --> Hi All- Sounds like perhaps it's time for phone calls to the tower chief to make sure that he/she knows of the issue. If that gets no results, a letter to the regional office. Make sure to delineate all the steps you guys have taken to verify your own equipment ops. You can also call them to let them on the phone to coordinate a NORDO arrival. Just be sure to review the light gun signals. Also, remember to keep you Piet under 200 KIAS ;-) As an aside, I've a good friend who is a controller who has provided me with various insights. Included in those were that although they can't upgrade equipment, they do get new leather furniture. Makes one proud of the system. glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:34 PM PST US From: "Robert Feldtman" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? sounds like it is the tower's receiver. bobf On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Steve Ruse wrote: > My plane actually has no engine driven electrical system, just a 12v > battery that runs the radio, intercom and GPS. My wires are all shielded > (including plug wires), and the plane has almost no electronics so noise > sources are minimal. > > Today, I did another test that sheds a lot of light on the situation. From > 2,500', I called the tower from less than 6 miles out. My friend in his > plane a few miles away reported that he could hear me loud and clear, but > the tower said I was garbled and unreadable. To me, that indicates that > some combination of factors between my radio and theirs is causing > problems. At what point should I try to address it with them? I doubt they > will care about my problem if no one else is having problems. > > Thanks for any tips. > > Steve Ruse > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Robert Feldtman > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, August 03, 2008 12:29 PM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? > > I just plugged in my handheld vertex into the extra antenna on my glastar - > over Austin. Received the usual spark plugs ignition noise my Apollo GX65 > hears; but when the approach transmitted, the intermodulation on the vertex > was terrible. Vertex is Yaesu I believe, and my 2 meter ham radio goes nuts > in certain parts of Houston (we call it RF alley) on I-59- so - intermod, > usually affects received signals, but who knows maybe in these "cheap" > little radios, other equipment on the field might also affect it. Do you > have anything else "on" in the plane? I'd say it is not the antenna. best > advice, you have already been given - test it with another plane or two on > that frequency, and confirm it is okay before you get into it with the FAA. > I do believe they have the worst radios on the aviation band however. I > always have to turn the squelch "off" to hear them in my glastar - but the > garmin in my 500B receives them well. > bobf > W5RF > > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Steve Ruse wrote: > >> A little new information on this. To refresh everyone's memory, I have >> a handheld with a homemade external antenna (brass brazing rod on the bottom >> of the nose, with a ground plane). I have no problems whatsoever >> communicating air to air, even up to 125 miles, and I have flown into >> multiple class D areas with no trouble at all (KFTW - 118.3, KAFW - 120.825, >> KDTO - 119.95, KADM - 118.5, and others). Everyone reports my signal as >> loud and clear, EXCEPT the tower at KOUN (118.0). >> >> This morning, I was flying out of KOUN again and got some new information >> that might be helpful. On the ground, they could hear me very clearly on >> 121.6. As soon as I switched to 118.0 though, they said my transmission was >> garbled and unreadable (still on the ground, nothing had changed but the >> frequency). >> >> So, I know I can transmit clearly on 118.3. However, apparently it is not >> so clear on 118.0. I can hear the tower clearly on 118.0. I've read that >> an antenna that receives well will also transmit well...this makes me think >> the antenna is probably good. Is it possible that the digital tuner on my >> handheld is not tuning correctly? I know, I need to get another handheld in >> the plane to see if I have the same problem. My radio is a three year old >> Vertex Standard VXA-150. >> >> Anyway, my primary question is, can anyone shed light on why I am not able >> to transmit clearly on 118.0? Where should I look first to try and solve >> this problem? I realize that 118.0 is at the very bottom of the aviation >> band, which made me think maybe my antenna length is off just slightly. I >> am going to measure that to verify. On that note, what is the exact length >> of the antenna with respect to the ground plane that I should measure? It >> is a brass rod sticking through an aluminum plate with nylon spacers as >> insulators. The brass rod sticks up above the ground plane about 1/2" or so >> on top. Could that small unshielded portion cause a problem, or is it too >> small to be a factor, and only the primary antenna length below the ground >> plane matters? >> >> Thanks for any help, >> >> Steve Ruse >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* H. M. Haught Jr. >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:22 PM >> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? >> >> Cordiality wasn't in evidence at KOUN. I was told in no uncertain terms >> that it wasn't their fault that my radio was junk, but they would give me >> light signals to get me out. I tried to explain that I've had the radio >> worked on a number of times and their facility was the only place I was >> having any trouble, which was true at the time, and got the reply - "If you >> want light signals to get out, then tell me, but don't blame our equipment >> for your radio problems." I was on a telephone talking to them from the >> service office - wouldn't see me face to face. They see lots of high power >> stuff and cater to it - my old ratty looking Pacer was consider "junk". I >> took the light signals and the radio was working fine by the time I got to >> the end of the taxiway. Called up OK City immediately after leaving the >> pattern, had radio check and was told "five x five". Next time I go in, >> (I've got my hand held set up on an external antenna as a backup radio ), as >> soon as I power down, I'm going to call up tower for radio check on the >> Icom, and then do the same thing with the handheld on rubber ducky antenna. >> Next day, if I have problems, I'll try the rubber ducky antenna again, as >> using the external antenna on the hand held also resulted in unreadable >> transmissions. Just doesn't make sense that two different radios are having >> the same problem on the same day. >> >> M. Haught >> >> >> Greg Young wrote: >> >> >> I've called our tower a couple of times and found them to be very cordial >> and very much interested to hear from pilots. If the chief/supv is not on >> then ask for the controller in charge. It's amazing what you can learn and >> what they are already aware of. I called about a "trainee" who after at >> least a year on duty totally lost track of only 3 airplanes (I was one of >> them) while working ground. Turns out that what everyone thought was a >> trainee is a burn-out 2 weeks away from mandatory retirement. They were well >> aware of the problem and keeping him on duties where he couldn't hurt >> anyone. Yup, makes one proud of the system. >> >> Regards, >> Greg Young >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com ] On >> Behalf Of glen matejcek >> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM >> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Why can't the tower hear me? >> >> --> >> >> Hi All- >> >> Sounds like perhaps it's time for phone calls to the tower >> chief to make sure that he/she knows of the issue. If that >> gets no results, a letter to the regional office. Make sure >> to delineate all the steps you guys have taken to verify your >> own equipment ops. >> >> You can also call them to let them on the phone to coordinate >> a NORDO arrival. Just be sure to review the light gun >> signals. Also, remember to keep you Piet under 200 KIAS ;-) >> >> As an aside, I've a good friend who is a controller who has >> provided me with various insights. Included in those were >> that although they can't upgrade equipment, they do get new >> leather furniture. Makes one proud of the system. >> >> glen matejcekaerobubba@earthlink.net >> >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.