---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/08/08: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - Flightline FL-760 Tranceiver and Sigtronics SPA-400 Intercom (ccsmith51) 2. 05:55 AM - Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) (James H Nelson) 3. 08:16 AM - Re: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) (rd2@evenlink.com) 4. 08:49 AM - Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) (James H Nelson) 5. 09:01 AM - Re: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) (Chuck Jensen) 6. 10:08 AM - fwf wiring questions... (Don Hall) 7. 10:38 AM - Re: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) (Carlos Trigo) 8. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/06/08 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 10:41 AM - Re: SD-20 repairable? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 11:11 AM - Re: relay wiring question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 11:38 AM - Re: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) (Eric M. Jones) 12. 11:42 AM - Re: relay wiring question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 12:08 PM - Alternator part number? (eddyfernan@aol.com) 14. 03:11 PM - Re: fwf wiring questions... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 03:30 PM - Re: Alternator part number? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 08:21 PM - I-Phone Inclinometer () 17. 10:08 PM - Re: I-Phone Inclinometer (Matt Prather) 18. 10:32 PM - Re: I-Phone Inclinometer (Ralph Finch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flightline FL-760 Tranceiver and Sigtronics SPA-400 Intercom From: "ccsmith51" I have a very, very strange issue that has to do with the FL-760 radio and the Sigtronics SPA-400 intercom. Here is the installation: Pilot's head set and PTT, and Co-pilot's headset and PTT are wired to the intercom with shielded cable. There are three wires from the intercom to the FL-760; audio out (mic to radio), audio in (from radio to intercom) ad transmit. Connection between the radio and intercom is through a Molex connector. Power to the radio and intercom are from a single avionics switch. The avionics switch goes to a terminal strip and there are separate power wires to the intercom and radio. The intercom and radio each have a power switch on them. Here is the problem: If the intercom is plugged into the radio and I turn on the avionics switch, and then the radio switch, the radio turns on (I can transmit and receive) but the LCD display does not come on. It does not matter the state of the intercom power switch. If the intercom is plugged into the radio and I turn on the radio switch, and then the avionics switch, the radio turns on (I can transmit and receive) and the LCD display comes on! It does not matter the state of the intercom power switch. If the intercom is not plugged into the radio, the radio LCD display comes on regardless of the power switch sequence. I can't see any connection at all between the LCD display and the intercom, but there obviously is one! This has me completely stumped, so if anyone has any ideas, I'll give anything a try!! Thanks!! -------- Chris Smith N694CS www.cleanex.cmsdreams.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197288#197288 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:17 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) From: James H Nelson Eric, I have a small business and was also a "victim" of this style fraud. They wanted about $500 worth of "bearings" that I sell. They used a third party phone conversation. They provided a "good" charge card and promised the same deal. But then, said they could not come by and pick the order up. Would I send it FED X to the address given. When I called Fed X, they said it was going to Nigeria with out me even giving them the complete address. They turned me over to their fraud division of Fed X and they confirmed it was a scam. They said I should call the FBI here in Tampa and report it. The FBI said that they get about 10 to 20 a day reported to them. I thank Fed X for the heads up. BTW, the credit card will go through as a good transaction but the charge will be declined later as the card will be found to be stolen. Your are then out of the merchandise and freight charges. Been there, done that Glad you were not "had" by the scum of the world. Also, most of these scams originate in Nigeria. Jim Nelson N15JN leaking tank-- ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free info on Graduate Degrees. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nNPPsIHgZAnN0gGTzFdIuVlBbx6TH3q1cDwtK6doEMCrZ7D/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:29 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) This is strange (one aspect of it) - you mean that the credit card processor will revert a legitimate charge, even if the merchant complied, shipped the order, but the card was later found to be stolen? I thought these risks are born by the credit card company releasing both the holder and the merchant from liability (some cards may have $50 card holder liability). Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from James H Nelson; Date: 08:50 AM 8/8/2008 -0400) ________________________________________________________________ Eric, I have a small business and was also a "victim" of this style fraud. They wanted about $500 worth of "bearings" that I sell. They used a third party phone conversation. They provided a "good" charge card and promised the same deal. But then, said they could not come by and pick the order up. Would I send it FED X to the address given. When I called Fed X, they said it was going to Nigeria with out me even giving them the complete address. They turned me over to their fraud division of Fed X and they confirmed it was a scam. They said I should call the FBI here in Tampa and report it. The FBI said that they get about 10 to 20 a day reported to them. I thank Fed X for the heads up. BTW, the credit card will go through as a good transaction but the charge will be declined later as the card will be found to be stolen. Your are then out of the merchandise and freight charges. Been there, done that Glad you were not "had" by the scum of the world. Also, most of these scams originate in Nigeria. Jim Nelson N15JN leaking tank-- ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free info on Graduate Degrees. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nNPPsIHgZAnN0gGTzFdIuVlBb x6TH3q1cDwtK6doEMCrZ7D/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) From: James H Nelson Rumen, That is protection for the card holder. I, as the seller of the material, have no recourse and loose the product and its value. Plus, my scam artist wanted it sent to "out of the country location". Jim Nelson do not archive ____________________________________________________________ Internet Security Software - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mEWr8Wt7VaslAiYB3kw4BSsEYs6jwH1XKet2kO7WWCWZ0BT/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) From: "Chuck Jensen" Unfortunately, your understanding is incorrect. The Credit Card Company has 60-90 days to backcharge your account if the recipient of the charge (cardholder) contests the charge--which they most certainly will if the card or card information has been stolen. A credit card charge is not like a Certified Check (and even those have to be looked at with a jaundiced eye). In short, the CCC protect the cardholder with maximum exposure of $50, but the merchant is pretty much at full risk for 90 days. With all the scams and flim-flams, about the only sure method of payment, if you don't know or trust the other party, is cash-in-hand. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rd2@evenlink.com Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) This is strange (one aspect of it) - you mean that the credit card processor will revert a legitimate charge, even if the merchant complied, shipped the order, but the card was later found to be stolen? I thought these risks are born by the credit card company releasing both the holder and the merchant from liability (some cards may have $50 card holder liability). Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from James H Nelson; Date: 08:50 AM 8/8/2008 -0400) ________________________________________________________________ Eric, I have a small business and was also a "victim" of this style fraud. They wanted about $500 worth of "bearings" that I sell. They used a third party phone conversation. They provided a "good" charge card and promised the same deal. But then, said they could not come by and pick the order up. Would I send it FED X to the address given. When I called Fed X, they said it was going to Nigeria with out me even giving them the complete address. They turned me over to their fraud division of Fed X and they confirmed it was a scam. They said I should call the FBI here in Tampa and report it. The FBI said that they get about 10 to 20 a day reported to them. I thank Fed X for the heads up. BTW, the credit card will go through as a good transaction but the charge will be declined later as the card will be found to be stolen. Your are then out of the merchandise and freight charges. Been there, done that Glad you were not "had" by the scum of the world. Also, most of these scams originate in Nigeria. Jim Nelson N15JN leaking tank-- ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free info on Graduate Degrees. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nNPPsIHgZAnN0gGTzFdIuVlBb x6TH3q1cDwtK6doEMCrZ7D/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:29 AM PST US From: Don Hall Subject: AeroElectric-List: fwf wiring questions... 1) Alternator. Is it normal\ok to run the alt-field line along the same route as the heavy gauge power output line from the alternator, along the underside of the engine around the top of the sump? (my case: rv7/io360) 2) What is typically used for small gauge connections under the cowl? For instances, leads to rpm sensor, fuel flow, etc solder, butt-splice, small fastons? Also fwf, my direct crank sensor has a 2-pair shielded line that needs to be joined. Is 9-pin D-Sub ok fwf? or should I just KISS and splice... Don ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:30 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) With all the scams and flim-flams, about the only sure method of > payment, if you don't know or trust the other party, is cash-in-hand. > Even that one is not 100% safe.... So may crooks printing green notes :-) Carlos do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/06/08 At 05:20 PM 8/7/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Afternoon, Jeff... > > >>I would expect a "sales" answer to a call like this :-( << > >Excuse me for inserting my two cents here, but I think I have something to >offer as well. > >I doubt very much that you would get a salesmen's type of reply to any >call you make to Brad. Tom and Brad ARE Emagair ... not salesmen or >support staff. Even though, come to think of it, they also ARE salesmen >AND the support staff. And the designers, and the technicians...well you >get the picture. > >A more helpful and knowledgeable couple of guys I've never run across with >any company. They would not pull any punches or give you any false >information about their products. No one, either in their company or >users, knows their products better than they do, and in this case, I >relying on information from "An outsider who has seem the schematics and >heard the behind the scenes stories" would not be as informed or helpful >as Brad would be. > >Excellent company to do business with... > >As far as user stories, I think there are some here in the archives if you >want to search for them...maybe also in the Canard-Aviators Yahoo group, >if you belong to that as well. Thank you Harley, you beat me to it. I'll confirm that Emagair is a very small company, Brad, Tom (and when I was there) one other fellow who helped out in a variety of tasks. They were forthcoming about their design and business philosophies and willing to share their knowledge. If you have any questions, I'll suggest you e-mail so that they can work you in as time becomes available. I've not heard from them on my questions of several days ago . . . but they just got back from OSH and probably have dozens of items in their mailbox. If anyone has a pressing issued (broken airplane) then by all means call. You won't be disappointed in the treatment you receive. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:58 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-20 repairable? At 07:55 PM 8/7/2008 -0400, you wrote: >I had a secondary buss failure in the last couple of day. Tracked it back >to the alternator and SD-20. After some simple debugging, I decided to >see if I could see anything move inside it when I turned the engine over >by hand. While the ratio is pretty small, I could detect no >movement. Further I found that the cooling fins that I could see where >moveable with a simple small pointy tool inserted in the back of the unit >while it was still attached to the engine. > >Long story short, after removal, I found that the input spline shaft was >intact (all of it's teeth there), but it freely spins and it's obvious >that it's not attached to the central armature of the SD-20 any longer. > >Are these things serviceable? I called B&C, but no tech people until >Monday due to travel back from OSH. It sounds like the shear section on your spline shaft has opened up. Yes, that's imminently repairable. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: relay wiring question At 05:27 PM 8/7/2008 -0400, you wrote: Thanks for the reply A comment and an additional question. I noticed the battery contactor only works with the large post opposite the small post connected to positive and does not work with the other large post connected to positive (i.e.. flip flopping the positive) This does not seem to be the case for the starter contactor, it seems to work with either post connected to positive. Is there a reason for this? Nothing special . . . it's the factory's way of accommodating a variety of design goals for incorporating the device into an electrical system. I'll refer you to the 3rd and 4th pages of the .pdf catalog for the 70 series contactors from Stancor: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Contactors/Stancor-WhiteRogers/Stancor_70-Series.pdf Note that the 4-terminal device features no internal coil connections. This is the style contactor I used to offer (B&C still does) as "universal" to the task of battery contactor, cross-feed contactor, hydraulic pump contactor, alternator b-lead contactor, etc. In all these instances, the little terminals and fat terminals are interchangeable. In cases where you want to purchase a bunch of contactors for use as a battery contactor only, then they'll be pleased to sell you a version wherein one coil connection is tied to a fat terminal. Obviously, one of the fat terminals needs to be designated "BATTERY" and if you look at the contactor shell, this terminal will be labeled "BAT" or "BATTERY". This leaves you but one wire to hook up to the battery master that pulls the free end of the coil to ground to energize the contactor. This feature can be used in a variety of applications where "pull to ground" control is desired. Just connect the BAT terminal to power source and the other terminal to supply the load. If you want to use the contactor in a "pull to bus" situation, you can also purchase a version where one end of the coil is internally connected to contactor case. Now, the fat terminals are still interchangeable but attention must be paid to the small terminal(s) where one will be internally connected to case. This wiring convention is quite common in intermittent duty, starter contactors. ---------------------- On Thursday, August 07, 2008, at 08:27AM, "Jerry Ricciotti" wrote: I am looking for the proper way to wire my battery and starter contactor. I have a Spruce bought battery contactor, which is a White-Rodgers Type 70 DC power contactor. I expected to see two large posts and two small posts on the unit but it has only one small post. The manufactures web site refers to this as a "Terminal Type 3B - Coil Common to Load" . The term "3B" comes from the schematic description of functionality from the 4th page of the above catalog excerpt. In this case, your coil suppression device would go between the small terminal and the one marked "BAT" as opposed to the externally jumpered wiring depicted in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/s701-1.jpg I want to confirm how to properly wire this to my DPDT master switch, the manufacturers diagram shows a pig tail to the small post from large post that is connected to battery positive. I assume I wire from that large post to the master switch and the back to small post on the contactor. No, you wire the battery to the BAT terminal of the contactor and take a single wire from the small terminal through your battery master switch to ship's ground. This is illustrated in all of the z-figures. There is no connection from the master switch to ground in this case? Yes there IS a master switch ground connection . . . as shown in the z-figures. Part 2 I have B&C starter relay, it also has only one small post. I assume that it is grounded through it's own case and I should bring positive line through the starter switch and back to the small post and then pig tail a ground wire from the case mounting bolt to the firewall ground? Yes, except if you have a metal firewall, there's no need for an extra ground between the mounting flange and the firewall ground. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fraudulent Purchase attempt (Off Topic) From: "Eric M. Jones" And let's not forget the Western Union payment to the consolidator. WU takes only cash in hand...no CCs or checks. That $230.00 would have come out of my pocket. Eric -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197374#197374 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: relay wiring question I discovered a diagram I'd published a few years ago at: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Contactors_PU_and_PD.pdf In this drawing, you see the control paths for the classic "pull down" to ground control of battery contactor (shown in red) and the "pull up" to bus control typical of starter contactors (shown in green). I've also published a one-pager on the three common contactor wiring conventions at: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Contactor_Wiring_Conventions.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:10 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator part number? From: eddyfernan@aol.com On the way back from Oshkosh to Florida my alternator died (lasted 2 years).? Switched off the main bus and ran the E bus all the way home (thanks Bob N.).? It was a 35 amp externally regulated part #14184.? Anyone out there know what the part number is for the same type of alternator?except in?55 amp unit externally regulated? Eddy Fernandez RV9A 300 TT ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fwf wiring questions... At 01:06 PM 8/8/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >1) Alternator. Is it normal\ok to run the alt-field line along the >same route as the heavy gauge power output line from the alternator, >along the underside of the engine around the top of the sump? (my >case: rv7/io360) Sure >2) What is typically used for small gauge connections under the >cowl? For instances, leads to rpm sensor, fuel flow, etc solder, >butt-splice, small fastons? The no-arguments best joining of wires happens with permanent splices of some variety . . . .crimped or soldered. The automotive experience with under-the-hood connectors has been a mixed bag . . . but sealed connectors over the past 15 years or so seem to hang in there quite well. Problem is that these critters are not easy to get in small end-user quantities . . . nor are the installation tools cheap. There's a host of options that range from permanent solder lap joints (how often do you expect to open these joints?) as shown at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html > Also fwf, my direct crank sensor has a 2-pair shielded line >that needs to be joined. Is 9-pin D-Sub ok fwf? or should I just >KISS and splice... . . . I'd consider lap-solder-and-shrink for this important signal path. I'm aware of no reasonably priced, easily acquired crimp connector/tools combination that would be very attractive. Hirose makes a line of solderable connectors which are very small and environmentally pretty tight. See: http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e11000216.pdf You can get these from Digikey.com http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=HR1598-ND http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=HR1583-ND A mated pair will set you back about $25. A d-sub with metal backshells would probably work well for you also. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator part number? At 03:04 PM 8/8/2008 -0400, you wrote: >On the way back from Oshkosh to Florida my alternator died (lasted 2 >years). Switched off the main bus and ran the E bus all the way home >(thanks Bob N.). It was a 35 amp externally regulated part >#14184. Anyone out there know what the part number is for the same type >of alternator except in 55 amp unit externally regulated? I'm wondering if that was originally an externally regulated unit. There's a lot of not terribly favorable traffic that comes up on a Google search about that part number as a Van's supplied alternator. There's a 'stock', probably internally regulated version offered on Ebay right now: http://tinyurl.com/6crakr It appears to be an older, external fan ND. If yours runs externally regulated, then do you know who might have modified it to bypass the internal regulator? About any of the more modern, internal fan ND alternators would mechanically adapt to your installation and are pretty easy to acquire up to at least 60A output. If you're presently using external regulation, you have a choice of changing over to keep the internal regulator that will certainly come with the alternator, or to embark upon an external regulator mod-program that's not terribly hard to do. That same supplier on Ebay is offering a wide variety of alternators that are sure to include a 50-60 amp machine in the more modern frame. You might drop them an email and inquire. For example, this item http://tinyurl.com/5bu25h is a husky looking ND product and I can't see a fan so it might be an attractive alternative to the device you have installed at the moment. They talk about "custom" reman . . . they might be willing to supply you an alternator with the regulator already by-passed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:56 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: I-Phone Inclinometer From: My partner just showed me the 2 axis Inclinometer on his I-Phone. Curious if one can use it as emergency attitude indicator? Degree wheel for roll, pitch you would use the less definitive widening line? Anyone want to give it a try? Ron P. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: I-Phone Inclinometer From: "Matt Prather" Would you suppose it uses force or acceleration sensors for this data. I did a minor amount of googling to try to learn that.. If force, I doubt it would provide reliable pitch and roll data - just like the 'ball' doesn't provide bank angle while in coordinated flight. Even if it's a mems gyro I suspect for that application, very little effort would have been made to cancel out drift rates. I'd be happy to be wrong, however... Matt- > > My partner just showed me the 2 axis Inclinometer on his I-Phone. > > Curious if one can use it as emergency attitude indicator? Degree wheel > for roll, pitch you would use the less definitive widening line? > > Anyone want to give it a try? > > Ron P. > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:58 PM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: I-Phone Inclinometer Won't work because it doesn't have a gyro. Would get fooled just like a weight on a string. RF -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 8:20 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: I-Phone Inclinometer My partner just showed me the 2 axis Inclinometer on his I-Phone. Curious if one can use it as emergency attitude indicator? Degree wheel for roll, pitch you would use the less definitive widening line? Anyone want to give it a try? 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