---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/16/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Re: Rochester dual indicator (bouguy) 2. 06:57 AM - Re: No sidetone driving me insane! (rampil) 3. 07:35 AM - Re: No sidetone driving me insane! (keithmckinley) 4. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: No sidetone driving me insane! (Bruce Gray) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Rochester dual indicator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 08:39 AM - Re: 30 Amp switch? (Ernest Christley) 7. 09:03 AM - Re: No sidetone driving me insane! (Joe Garner) 8. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: John Deere dynamo (Ernest Christley) 9. 09:31 AM - Re: 30 Amp switch? (Dale Rogers) 10. 11:30 AM - The accelerating impediments to data retrieval . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 11:32 AM - COTS (commercial off the shelf) OAT indicator? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: John Deere dynamo (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 01:56 PM - The Word According to ISO (Off Topic) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 06:16 PM - Re: 30 Amp switch? (Bob White) 15. 06:33 PM - Do you suppose this is why elephants are afraid of them? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 09:56 PM - B&C alterator problem () 17. 10:37 PM - LEDs for strobes and position lights (corvairkelso) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rochester dual indicator From: "bouguy" hi , i have a Rochester dual indicator , Oil temp and Oil Press , Cessna Part N S3279-1 coming from a 28volts Skyhawk . i would like to use it but as i have no Parts catalog , am not able to determine probe and sender references . is somebody able to help me ? thanks a lot , Guy , Barracuda builder . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198887#198887 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:44 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No sidetone driving me insane! From: "rampil" Assuming that the hardware supports sidetone(and I think all intercoms do), then lessee: shoddy amateur wiring with obvious failed connectors vs. solid state radio..... In all of aircraft, it's not what you want to do, you do what needs to be done. Take your time, get it right, and if you can't replace the crappy molex connectors, at least solder them after crimping -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198914#198914 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:07 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No sidetone driving me insane! From: "keithmckinley" sidetone is supported by intercom and radio. I think I'll pull the radio for a bench test....had enough Keith -------- Wizard Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198920#198920 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:53 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: No sidetone driving me insane! A good crimp with the proper tool is just as good as a solder joint. Now when you solder a crimped joint you create a single stress joint at the solder point. Unless you provide some stress/flex relief (shrink wrap tube), you're asking for trouble down the road. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: No sidetone driving me insane! Assuming that the hardware supports sidetone(and I think all intercoms do), then lessee: shoddy amateur wiring with obvious failed connectors vs. solid state radio..... In all of aircraft, it's not what you want to do, you do what needs to be done. Take your time, get it right, and if you can't replace the crappy molex connectors, at least solder them after crimping -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198914#198914 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rochester dual indicator At 12:10 AM 8/16/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >hi , > >i have a Rochester dual indicator , Oil temp and Oil Press , >Cessna Part N S3279-1 coming from a 28volts Skyhawk . > >i would like to use it but as i have no Parts catalog , am not >able to determine probe and sender references . > >is somebody able to help me ? > >thanks a lot , The S-number is probably one you read off the cluster. That a Cessna Standards number that I can go look up and tell you what the specs are for the instrument and probably the Rochester number it was supplied under to Cessna. It will probably reference the companion sensors too and those can be researched. However . . . Can I try to talk you out of using these parts? You're assuming that these are good parts in spite of their pedigree. If one of them is bad now or in the future, where will you get a replacement? There's a host of alternative gages in the automotive and aviation worlds that are of equal quality but modern design and production. Check out these devices: http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/mitchoilpress.php http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/mitchoiltemp.php http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?ref=search&gid=3723 http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?ref=search&gid=3727 If you're building a 28v airplane, you can easily craft a 28v to 14v down-regulator to supply power to the modern automotive instruments. If you REALLY want to use the salvage parts, I'll see what I can find out for you. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:57 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 30 Amp switch? Dale Rogers wrote: > > Re: >> >> The header paragraph in the tinyurl.com front page >> includes the following statement: >> >> "By entering in a URL in the text field below, we will >> create a tiny URL that will not break in email postings >> and never expires." >> >> Are you perhaps thinking of another service? >> >> Bob . . . >> > > > Nope. Just a non-optimal choice of words. After 28 years in the > computer industry, I have less than full confidence that a free > service like tinyurl will continue forever. Maybe they are well > funded by a subsidy from one of Gilby Productions' other operations. > Maybe ... > > Dale R. He's right you know, Bob. You've got to be able to read computer industry speak, which doesn't necessarily correspond with any known language. Words like "never" and "forever" are loosely translated to "for as long as we feel like it". You should plan accordingly. On another completely unrelated note, mpja.com has some nice panel-mounted temp guages for $3.95 that have a remote probe. The supplied battery will cost that much at the corner drug store. One for OAT, one for carb temp and half a dozen more for various temps that I'd want to measure, and I'd still not be into serious money. -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:29 AM PST US From: Joe Garner Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: No sidetone driving me insane! One thing you might check is where the headset is wired to. Most radios have a headset AND a speaker output, they are not the same. Speaker is muted with transmit and headset has sidetone. This bit me when I installed a SL30! Still have to go under the panel and move that pin... HTH, Joe keithmckinley wrote: > "keithmckinley" > > Hi, > > I've got an Icom a200 radio connected through a > pm 1200 intercom. > > When I got the plane it had no side tone at > all. Pulled the radio and tried to adjust the > sidetone pot to no avail. Turned off intercom > and still no side tone. > > I've tried numerous different headsets. I did > notice what seems to be a disconnected wire(s) > at the molex connector but don't no if that's > an issue. The wiring job is shoddy to begin > with but I'd hate to rip it out and start new > if it's actually a radio issue. > > radio transmits and receives just fine and the > intercom is awesome at canceling out noise in > my very loud warbird. > > Just hoping for some last chance advice before > I send the radio out for a bench test. > > Thanks, > > Keith > > -------- Wizard > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:08 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: John Deere dynamo Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > This critter is good for about 12-15A when turned > fast enough and assuming that the companion regulator- > rectifier isn't over-stressed by the higher input > operating voltage. I've prayed a bit over the > schematics for an exemplar device . . . > > http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/3-Phase_PM_Rectifier_Regulator.gif > > Bob, this is a switching type regulator, isn't it? I'm using a PM generator, and I'm unsure about the regulator that came with the kit. From what I can gather, it appears that Harley-Davidson is still using linear regulators. I'd rather avoid that extra heat and wear if possible. -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:32 AM PST US From: Dale Rogers Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 30 Amp switch? Ernest Christley wrote: > > > On another completely unrelated note, mpja.com has some nice > panel-mounted temp guages for $3.95 that have a remote probe. The > supplied battery will cost that much at the corner drug store. One > for OAT, one for carb temp and half a dozen more for various temps > that I'd want to measure, and I'd still not be into serious money. Ernest, was that item # 16370 ME? Dale R. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: The accelerating impediments to data retrieval . . .. >> >>Nope. Just a non-optimal choice of words. After 28 years in the >>computer industry, I have less than full confidence that a free service >>like tinyurl will continue forever. Maybe they are well funded by a >>subsidy from one of Gilby Productions' other operations. Maybe ... >> >>Dale R. > >He's right you know, Bob. You've got to be able to read computer industry >speak, which doesn't necessarily correspond with any known >language. Words like "never" and "forever" are loosely translated to "for >as long as we feel like it". You should plan accordingly. > >On another completely unrelated note, mpja.com has some nice panel-mounted >temp guages for $3.95 that have a remote probe. The supplied battery will >cost that much at the corner drug store. One for OAT, one for carb temp >and half a dozen more for various temps that I'd want to measure, and I'd >still not be into serious money. Absolutely! If Matt were to meet an untimely demise, what would the future of the Lists and their archives hold? Same goes for me and aeroelectric.com In fact, I'm already wrestling with a reorganization plan for the website and cursing decisions that drove some of the present configuration. A recent search on yahoo for "aeroelectric.com" preoduced 42,000 hits. If I alter it for the sake of 'improvements', no doubt a large number of archived links will be broken. I'm resigned to living within the present organizational structure . . . or creating a new one that mirrors the old one while improvements will be added to the new one only. Ultimately, we're probably best off by anchoring our short term (5-10 years?) in the functionality of search engines that update continuously. After a few years of co-existence, the 'old' section of the website could be taken down after mirrored 'new' section is adequately scanned and cataloged by the search engines. But all archived links will be trashed. Like the cylinder, 78, 33, 45, wire, tape, cassette and no doubt the CD . . . staying agile and useful in the recording, storage, search and retrieval of information is a never ending effort. Worse yet, the rate at which things are being replaced is accelerating. Hold on to your hats! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: COTS (commercial off the shelf) OAT indicator? At 09:29 AM 8/16/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Ernest Christley wrote: >> >> >>On another completely unrelated note, mpja.com has some nice >>panel-mounted temp guages for $3.95 that have a remote probe. The >>supplied battery will cost that much at the corner drug store. One for >>OAT, one for carb temp and half a dozen more for various temps that I'd >>want to measure, and I'd still not be into serious money. > >Ernest, was that item # 16370 ME? >Dale R. Yeah, those critters have been around for awhile. I bought one a number of years ago to evaluate. That version used a forward biased diode as a temperature sensor. It was pretty good for non-industrial/aviation use. There are some new, more sensitive, VERY linear temperature sensors that could be applied to products like this. In fact, the would push suitability of the device's operating range up high enough to use for oil temperature measurement too. Next time a put in an order to MPJA, I'll pick one up and check it out. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: John Deere dynamo At 12:05 PM 8/16/2008 -0400, you wrote: > > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> This critter is good for about 12-15A when turned >> fast enough and assuming that the companion regulator- >> rectifier isn't over-stressed by the higher input >> operating voltage. I've prayed a bit over the >> schematics for an exemplar device . . . >> >>http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/3-Phase_PM_Rectifier_Regulator.gif >> >Bob, this is a switching type regulator, isn't it? Uhhh . . . I guess you could call it that. It's not the legacy switch-mode regulator where duty-cycle controlled switches, inductors, capacitors and catch diodes do high efficiency voltage shifting. These are simple series switches that either reduce throughput by delaying the time between waveform zero- crossing and the firing of an SCR at the optimum later time to throttle throughput. It's exceedingly simple and adequate to the task if not terribly efficient. These regulators use single junction diodes AND 4-layer SCRs. Total voltage drop in the on-state, especially in a 14v system chews up quite a chunk of system efficiency. They're better at the higher voltages so a 28v version is not quite so bad. I've often thought about rewinding one of these things for say 60-80 volts of 3-phase AC output that would then be rectified and conditioned by a REAL switch-mode supply. But pencilling the numbers wasn't a BIG improvement in efficiency and a BIG increase in parts-count. >I'm using a PM generator, and I'm unsure about the regulator that came >with the kit. From what I can gather, it appears that Harley-Davidson is >still using linear regulators. I'd rather avoid that extra heat and wear >if possible. I doubt that any one does a true linear regulator at these power levels. They HAVE moved from the pure shunt (waste what you don't need) type of regulator common to 1970 designs) to a series configuration that does not waste as much energy overall. The only heat issue is in keeping the regulator itself cool . . . and as you can see in pictures of the various products offered, the BIG guys are in cast housings with fins. There are no significant wear advantages between the various offerings as long as things stay cool enough. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: The Word According to ISO (Off Topic) At 07:45 AM 8/11/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob et al., > >I too had a thousand similar experiences in industry. Recently in the >Worcester Business Journal I published a rebuttal to a "Business Leader" >who believed the solution to all our problems is to hire more foreign >H-1B's. (For anyone interested I will email you my flame job). Yes, I'd like to read it . . . >My advise to young engineers/designers: Don't work for ANY company for >more than five years unless you own a serious piece of it. Period. Don't >even think about it. And as soon as you can, start your OWN company. You >might not make a fortune, but you won't have to work for jerks and you'll >wake up in the morning with a contented soul, happy to start the day. My approach has not been so direct . . . but in the same spirit. In my capacity as subject matter lead I was tasked several times by the chief scientist at RAC/H-B to take new hire EE's on a familiarization tour of the facilities. I would take them to places that their hire-on job might never go. They needed to be aware of every activity/opportunity on the square-mile . . . ESPECIALLY those opportunities to get their hands dirty working on a real life project! At lunch, I would inquire as to the vision they have for their own future, "What would you like to be doing 5 years from now?" These discussions would go into quite a bit of detail and I would let them know where things on the square-mile might support their goals . . . as well as any inability of the current organization to support those goals. Several times during our encounter I would re-enforce the notion that everything they'd done up to now was but the beginning of their education. If at any time they found themselves stagnant in the acquisition of new knowledge/skills, it was time to re-assess the relationship. I told them to call me at any time and I'd arrange lunch with the chief scientist to discuss how we (the company) and the disenchanted engineer might set things back on track. If it could not be done, they were given to understand that the chief scientist, myself, and perhaps a dozen others within the organization would help them make a useful transition to another situation, even if outside the company. >"THE VERY BIG STUPID" is a thing which breeds by eating >The Future. Have you seen it? It sometimes disguises itself as a >good-looking quarterly bottom line, derived by closing the R&D >Department. >--Frank Zappa We sorta avoided looking like a financial albatross by placing contract testing facilities under the auspices of engineering. It was gratifying to see that we always showed a positive cash flow at the end of the year . . . We also got "credit" for stopping the bleed when a field failures problem was resolved through the efforts of our in-house talents. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:31 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 30 Amp switch? On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:39:08 -0400 Ernest Christley wrote: > > On another completely unrelated note, mpja.com has some nice > panel-mounted temp guages for $3.95 that have a remote probe. The > supplied battery will cost that much at the corner drug store. One for > OAT, one for carb temp and half a dozen more for various temps that I'd > want to measure, and I'd still not be into serious money. > > Not so fast Ernest. I found that item, at least I guess it's the right one. "Requires 1 "LR1130" button cell. (Not included)", so you've probably doubled your cost. :) Bob W. -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:48 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Do you suppose this is why elephants are afraid of them? As if bird's nests weren't bad enough, now we have . . . http://tinyurl.com/5vmasm Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:57 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: B&C alterator problem Bob and others - I have a newly purchased RV8 with a B&C 40 amp alternator and automotive style blade fuses. Good grounding with a firewall mounted ground bus which is then routed to the engine. The digital ammeter indicates a running load of 6-7 amps. The battery is a Concorde dry cell mounted on the firewall. On two separate occasions the 15 amp alternator field fuse has blown without any additional or noted transient loads being placed on the alternator. The builder had this happen to him also and he thought it was the battery so he replaced it. The new, year old Concorde battery has great cranking power so I am not looking at this as a potential problem. The only other problem I have noted is when using all of the lights, strobes, fuel pump and electric flaps the main 40 amp C/B popped once. Ignoring this as an overload my real problem appears to be the field fuse. Why does the 15 amp field fuse blow and what's the smartest way to diagnose this problem? Thank you. JBB ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:50 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights From: "corvairkelso" In response to a previous question about using LED for position lights and strobe, check www.luxeonstar.com. I have used their rebel stars in the white tri-emitter powered by their power supply, called a buck puck successfully. The buck pucks imput 12 volts fine and output a fixed current, 700ma in my case. I am using a group of five stars, for about 1400 lumens per side. Luneon III stars are available in both red and green for position lights. Mounting was a challenge, finally using NAPA 549SWD surface mount dome light as a container for them. I used the lambertain style, which is 140 degree of coverage . This is my first posting so please forgive any errors and for being unable to provide an actual link to the referenced web site. 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