---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/18/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:36 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (John McKiernan) 2. 07:17 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (Etienne Phillips) 3. 07:17 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:19 AM - Re: Search for Gremlins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:24 AM - AT165 Headset noise (Scott Mills) 6. 07:35 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (Etienne Phillips) 7. 07:45 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (Harley) 8. 07:58 AM - Re: AT165 Headset noise (Kelly McMullen) 9. 08:15 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (John Cox) 10. 08:36 AM - AT 165 Noise in headset (Scott Mills) 11. 09:25 AM - Re: AT165 Headset noise (Scott Mills) 12. 10:03 AM - Re: LEDs for strobes and position lights (Scott R. Shook) 13. 04:40 PM - Re: AT 165 Noise in headset () 14. 09:52 PM - Re: Search for Gremlins (F. Tim Yoder) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:00 AM PST US From: "John McKiernan" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights I just began flying using 700ma buck puck power supplies and 2 parallel 3 series K2 Stars. The power supplies are hitting my VHF radios with a lot of RFI. I've got some .1uf capacitors and ferrite beads to try and clean these up. I know of one other new aircraft that wound up removing the power supply and using a series resistor after cleaning up the noise, but losing some range on his radios. I'd like to solve the issue using the power supply. Anyone have any experience with cleaning these devices up? Thanks Rocky ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:02 AM PST US From: "Etienne Phillips" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights Hi John There are 2 options that I would consider doing if I were in your position... 1) Put a 1Ohm resistor in the supply line, and a range of 4 or 5 capacitors from 0.1uF to 10,000uF right at the supply to the regulator. This should create a very wide-band filter on the supply line. This won't help if the noise in your radio is coming from EMI through the receiver (rather than through the power line). This is a fairly quick and easy mod to make though. 2) Build yourself a linear (i.e. not switching) regulator to replace the BuckPuck. They're fairly simple to set up, and pretty robust. Assuming a forward bias of the Luxeons to be 3.9V @1A, using a properly heat-sinked 7810 with a 2.2Ohm 5W resistor in series with 2 Luxeons will give you a very clean supply. However, if your bus voltage drops below about 10V, these babies are going to get a bit dim. But that's just me. Maybe someone will come up with a better suggestion? Etienne 2008/8/18 John McKiernan > I just began flying using 700ma buck puck power supplies and 2 parallel 3 > series K2 Stars. The power supplies are hitting my VHF radios with a lot of > RFI. I've got some .1uf capacitors and ferrite beads to try and clean these > up. I know of one other new aircraft that wound up removing the power > supply and using a series resistor after cleaning up the noise, but losing > some range on his radios. I'd like to solve the issue using the power > supply. Anyone have any experience with cleaning these devices up? > > Thanks > > Rocky > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:03 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights At 07:29 AM 8/18/2008 -0500, you wrote: >I just began flying using 700ma buck puck power supplies and 2 parallel 3 >series K2 Stars. The power supplies are hitting my VHF radios with a lot >of RFI. I ve got some .1uf capacitors and ferrite beads to try and clean >these up. I know of one other new aircraft that wound up removing the >power supply and using a series resistor after cleaning up the noise, but >losing some range on his radios. I d like to solve the issue using the >power supply. Anyone have any experience with cleaning these devices up? Are you sure the noise is coming in through the antenna? If the noise is conducted, the filtering process could be different. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:47 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Search for Gremlins At 11:47 PM 8/17/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >8/17/2008 > >To reply to the author, write to "F. Tim Yoder" > >Report on this weekends search for Gremlins; > >I spent several hours under the panel checking all the ground buss >connections, breaker and switch grounds. I loosened the connections to the >amp, volt, oil temp and oil pressure gauges, wiggled the terminals and re >tightened. I did the same thing to the alternator and removed the regulator >spades and replaced them.I removed the radio, cleaned the connectors and re >installed it. I checked the ground straps from the engine to the motor >mount. I spent some time looking for something,anything wrong. There should be no ground straps from engine to motor mount. Only one fat-wire jumper from crankcase to your single-point ground on the firewall. >I started the plane and found that I had not ran off any Gremlins. When I >turn on the Alt. the oil pressure dropped from 75# to 60# then settled on >70#, this takes about one second. As soon as I turn off the Alt. the oil >pressure goes back to 75#. With the radio and Alt. on the oil pressure >needle drops a needle width when I key the radio. Again, with the Alt. off >keying the radio does not effect the oil pressure gauge which was back to >75#. > >I did not fly so I didn't have any radio issues. I think I need to find the >cause of the apparent load on the oil pressure gauge first. It sounds like a ground loop issue driven by too much resistance between crankcase and the oil pressure instrument ground. Try removing the existing ground wire for the instrument and grounding the instrument directly to the crankcase. If this makes the wiggle go away, I'll suggest you remove all jumpers from engine to mount and add one fat-jumper between crankcase and ground block. >Oh, the Amp. meter is a little positive at idle and the voltage is showing >a charge of about 14.4V and 13.5V with at Alt. off. Those numbers are right in the ballpark. >I'll appreciate any suggestions. > >Thanks again, Tim Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:00 AM PST US From: "Scott Mills" Subject: AeroElectric-List: AT165 Headset noise Alas my AT50 gave up the ghost and had to be replaced. Well of course, we all know where this is headed. I now have a new annoying sound in my headset. While it is more noticeable when on the ground as opposed to flying it is always there. It's related to the reply function of the transponder. I have read the other posts regarding this issue and, while mine is similar I'd like to give some of the specifics. 1. If I turn the new transponder (Narco AT165) to standby, the noise goes away. 2. Turn transponder back on and turn comm radio off (ICOM A200) noise goes away. In all cases the intercom is still working (Flightcom 403) 3. Adjusting volume knob on the A200 makes the noise louder/softer. So it would appear that the problem is related to interference between the AT165 and the ICOM A200. This is where I'm stumped. The AT50 never gave this problem. The encoder was not changed (Trans-Cal). Is the issue with inductive coupling in the wiring or is the power output of the AT165 a problem for the ICOM? Although these weren't problems with the AT50. The Antennas are bottom mounted on an RV9A. The transponder is up by the right fuel tank vent and the com is centered under the pilot's seat, they're about 30 inches apart. Nowhere do the cables ever cross or run together except at the radio stack where they come in from opposite sides anyhow. I used RG 400 for this installation. What's the fix for this? Where do I start troubleshooting? All help is greatly appreciated. Regards, Scott Mills N339A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:10 AM PST US From: "Etienne Phillips" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights And then I would read your mail properly to see that you're using K2 Stars and not Luxeon III's, which have a slightly different Voltage / Current ratio... Doh. There are 2 types of K2 Stars... The 100 lumen and the 75 lumen. The so-called 100 Lumen can actually be driven up to 140 lumen, at 1.5A, which makes the 7810 a bad choice if you want to drive it at 1.5A. Same methodology applies though. Regulate to a known voltage, just above the series voltage of however many LEDs you choose, then use a resistor to regulate the current and step down the voltage the last bit. 2008/8/18 Etienne Phillips > Hi John > > There are 2 options that I would consider doing if I were in your > position... > > 1) Put a 1Ohm resistor in the supply line, and a range of 4 or 5 capacitors > from 0.1uF to 10,000uF right at the supply to the regulator. This should > create a very wide-band filter on the supply line. This won't help if the > noise in your radio is coming from EMI through the receiver (rather than > through the power line). This is a fairly quick and easy mod to make though. > > 2) Build yourself a linear (i.e. not switching) regulator to replace the > BuckPuck. They're fairly simple to set up, and pretty robust. Assuming a > forward bias of the Luxeons to be 3.9V @1A, using a properly heat-sinked > 7810 with a 2.2Ohm 5W resistor in series with 2 Luxeons will give you a very > clean supply. However, if your bus voltage drops below about 10V, these > babies are going to get a bit dim. > > But that's just me. Maybe someone will come up with a better suggestion? > > Etienne > > 2008/8/18 John McKiernan > >> I just began flying using 700ma buck puck power supplies and 2 parallel >> 3 series K2 Stars. The power supplies are hitting my VHF radios with a lot >> of RFI. I've got some .1uf capacitors and ferrite beads to try and clean >> these up. I know of one other new aircraft that wound up removing the power >> supply and using a series resistor after cleaning up the noise, but losing >> some range on his radios. I'd like to solve the issue using the power >> supply. Anyone have any experience with cleaning these devices up? >> >> Thanks >> >> Rocky >> >> > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:15 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights Everyone... As long as we're back on this topic again, has anyone visited the AveoFlash guys when they were at Oshkosh this year? And, if so, what are your opinions of their product for wingtip strobe and position lighting? www.aveoaviationlights.com/products/AveoFlash/index.php Still considering them... Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ (working on the engine for awhile...before I go back to sanding the wing!) Hangar 29, Airport Canandaigua, NY ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:57 AM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AT165 Headset noise I don't have a clue what in the AT165 might do with your Icom. However, one thought would be to bypass your intercom or just turn the intercom off. Intercoms are well known for picking up stray RF in the cockpit and amplifying for your listening annoyance. I also suspect Icom might be more responsive than Narco on inquiry. Narco does have toll free number, so it can't hurt to call. Scott Mills wrote: > > Alas my AT50 gave up the ghost and had to be replaced. Well of course, > we all know where this is headed. I now have a new annoying sound in > my headset. While it is more noticeable when on the ground as opposed > to flying it is always there. Its related to the reply function of > the transponder. I have read the other posts regarding this issue and, > while mine is similar Id like to give some of the specifics. > > 1. If I turn the new transponder (Narco AT165) to standby, the noise > goes away. > > 2. Turn transponder back on and turn comm radio off (ICOM A200) noise > goes away. In all cases the intercom is still working (Flightcom 403) > > 3. Adjusting volume knob on the A200 makes the noise louder/softer. > > So it would appear that the problem is related to interference between > the AT165 and the ICOM A200. This is where Im stumped. The AT50 never > gave this problem. The encoder was not changed (Trans-Cal). > > Is the issue with inductive coupling in the wiring or is the power > output of the AT165 a problem for the ICOM? Although these werent > problems with the AT50. > > The Antennas are bottom mounted on an RV9A. The transponder is up by > the right fuel tank vent and the com is centered under the pilots > seat, theyre about 30 inches apart. Nowhere do the cables ever cross > or run together except at the radio stack where they come in from > opposite sides anyhow. I used RG 400 for this installation. > > Whats the fix for this? Where do I start troubleshooting? All help is > greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > > Scott Mills > > N339A > > * > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights From: "John Cox" Loved them, don't know if the lumens are enough at a distance. From 10 feet they were great. Let's try 1,000 yards. Do not want them in their encased plastic bezel. Would like to install them in my own covers. John Cox From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:43 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights Everyone... As long as we're back on this topic again, has anyone visited the AveoFlash guys when they were at Oshkosh this year? And, if so, what are your opinions of their product for wingtip strobe and position lighting? www.aveoaviationlights.com/products/AveoFlash/index.php Still considering them... Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ (working on the engine for awhile...before I go back to sanding the wing!) Hangar 29, Airport Canandaigua, NY ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:57 AM PST US From: "Scott Mills" Subject: AeroElectric-List: AT 165 Noise in headset Bob, et all Alas my AT50 gave up the ghost and had to be replaced. Well of course we all know where this is headed. I now have a new annoying sound in my headset. While it is more noticeable when on the ground as opposed to flying it is always there. It is related to the reply function of the transponder. Anytime the LCD is blinking "RCV" I hear the noise. Here are some of the specifics. 1. If I turn the new transponder (Narco AT165) to standby noise goes away. 2. Turn transponder back on and turn comm radio off (ICOM A200) noise goes away. In all cases the intercom is still working (Flightcom 403) 3. Adjusting volume knob on the A200 makes the noise louder/softer. So it would appear that the problem is related to interference between the AT165 and the ICOM A200. The A200 sits on top of the AT165 in the radio stack. (These are the only two radios I have) This is where I'm stumped. The AT50 never gave this problem. The encoder was not changed (Trans-Cal). Is the issue with inductive coupling in the wiring or is the power output of the AT165 a problem for the ICOM? Could it be the multiplexing LCD display causing the interference? These weren't problems with the AT50. The Antennas are bottom mounted on an RV9A. The transponder is up by the right fuel tank vent and the com is centered under the pilot's seat, they're about 30 inches apart. Nowhere do the cables ever cross or run together except at the radio stack where they come in from opposite sides anyhow. I used RG 400 for this installation. Is there a simple fix for this? Where do I start troubleshooting? All help is greatly appreciated. Regards, Scott Mills N339A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:44 AM PST US From: "Scott Mills" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AT165 Headset noise I tried that. The noise does not appear to be coming through the intercom. What is interesting is that whenever the "RCV" blinks on the AT 165 I get this static noise. It seems as though the LCD on the transponder is causing the interference in the ICOM. Could this be a multiplexer in the AT 165 wreaking havoc with ICOM? Not sure. Would and RF filter help? If so where should I connect it? Scott I don't have a clue what in the AT165 might do with your Icom. However, one thought would be to bypass your intercom or just turn the intercom off. Intercoms are well known for picking up stray RF in the cockpit and amplifying for your listening annoyance ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:15 AM PST US From: "Scott R. Shook" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights I loved them. I thought the price was right too. When I figured in the LED's, power-pucks, assembly (was going to do something like Jeff did for his RV - http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/LEDPROJECT1.htm ), strobe tubes, strobe power supply, and tail light - the price was about the same. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harley Sent: Monday, 18 August, 2008 07:43 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LEDs for strobes and position lights Everyone... As long as we're back on this topic again, has anyone visited the AveoFlash guys when they were at Oshkosh this year? And, if so, what are your opinions of their product for wingtip strobe and position lighting? www.aveoaviationlights.com/products/AveoFlash/index.php Still considering them... Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ (working on the engine for awhile...before I go back to sanding the wing!) Hangar 29, Airport Canandaigua, NY ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:20 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AT 165 Noise in headset How are your headset/mic jacks mounted? Are they insulated from airframe? Could you be picking up a ground loop during transmit? James Redmon Berkut #013/Race 13 www.berkut13.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Mills To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:32 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: AT 165 Noise in headset Bob, et all Alas my AT50 gave up the ghost and had to be replaced. Well of course we all know where this is headed. I now have a new annoying sound in my headset. While it is more noticeable when on the ground as opposed to flying it is always there. It is related to the reply function of the transponder. Anytime the LCD is blinking "RCV" I hear the noise. Here are some of the specifics. 1. If I turn the new transponder (Narco AT165) to standby noise goes away. 2. Turn transponder back on and turn comm radio off (ICOM A200) noise goes away. In all cases the intercom is still working (Flightcom 403) 3. Adjusting volume knob on the A200 makes the noise louder/softer. So it would appear that the problem is related to interference between the AT165 and the ICOM A200. The A200 sits on top of the AT165 in the radio stack. (These are the only two radios I have) This is where I'm stumped. The AT50 never gave this problem. The encoder was not changed (Trans-Cal). Is the issue with inductive coupling in the wiring or is the power output of the AT165 a problem for the ICOM? Could it be the multiplexing LCD display causing the interference? These weren't problems with the AT50. The Antennas are bottom mounted on an RV9A. The transponder is up by the right fuel tank vent and the com is centered under the pilot's seat, they're about 30 inches apart. Nowhere do the cables ever cross or run together except at the radio stack where they come in from opposite sides anyhow. I used RG 400 for this installation. Is there a simple fix for this? Where do I start troubleshooting? All help is greatly appreciated. Regards, Scott Mills N339A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:40 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Search for Gremlins Hello Bob, Thank you for your suggestions. I will try grounding the oil pressure gauge directly to the engine case and report the results. FYI, my plane is a KIS two place all composite that I have been flying for about 10 yrs. She has a little over 300 hrs. on her. This is a new problem .As far as I know .I didn't add or change any operating systems prior to these symptoms showing up. Thank You Again, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 7:17 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Search for Gremlins > > At 11:47 PM 8/17/2008 -0400, you wrote: > > > >8/17/2008 > > > >To reply to the author, write to "F. Tim Yoder" > > > >Report on this weekends search for Gremlins; > > > >I spent several hours under the panel checking all the ground buss > >connections, breaker and switch grounds. I loosened the connections to the > >amp, volt, oil temp and oil pressure gauges, wiggled the terminals and re > >tightened. I did the same thing to the alternator and removed the regulator > >spades and replaced them.I removed the radio, cleaned the connectors and re > >installed it. I checked the ground straps from the engine to the motor > >mount. I spent some time looking for something,anything wrong. > > There should be no ground straps from engine to motor mount. Only > one fat-wire jumper from crankcase to your single-point ground on > the firewall. > > > >I started the plane and found that I had not ran off any Gremlins. When I > >turn on the Alt. the oil pressure dropped from 75# to 60# then settled on > >70#, this takes about one second. As soon as I turn off the Alt. the oil > >pressure goes back to 75#. With the radio and Alt. on the oil pressure > >needle drops a needle width when I key the radio. Again, with the Alt. off > >keying the radio does not effect the oil pressure gauge which was back to > >75#. > > > >I did not fly so I didn't have any radio issues. I think I need to find the > >cause of the apparent load on the oil pressure gauge first. > > It sounds like a ground loop issue driven by too much resistance > between crankcase and the oil pressure instrument ground. Try > removing the existing ground wire for the instrument and > grounding the instrument directly to the crankcase. > > If this makes the wiggle go away, I'll suggest you remove all > jumpers from engine to mount and add one fat-jumper between > crankcase and ground block. > > > >Oh, the Amp. meter is a little positive at idle and the voltage is showing > >a charge of about 14.4V and 13.5V with at Alt. off. > > Those numbers are right in the ballpark. > > > >I'll appreciate any suggestions. > > > >Thanks again, Tim > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.