---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/27/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - B+C alternator problem (rocket2man) 2. 04:49 AM - Re: Dry Cell Batteries? (Beemer) 3. 06:22 AM - Re: B+C alternator problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:28 AM - Re: Crimpers (Ralph Finch) 5. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:27 AM - Re: Crimpers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? (Ken) 8. 10:01 AM - Re: Crimpers (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 9. 11:35 AM - Voltage dropping resistor calculations (Richard Girard) 10. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 12:03 PM - Re: Voltage dropping resistor calculations (jon@finleyweb.net) 12. 01:02 PM - Re: Voltage dropping resistor calculations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? (Ken) 14. 02:11 PM - Re: Voltage dropping resistor calculations (Ken) 15. 04:56 PM - Re: Push-to-Test Lamp (Henry Trzeciakowski) 16. 05:55 PM - Re: Crimpers (Bill Ledbetter) 17. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp (Don Curry) 18. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 10:27 PM - Re: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp (Etienne Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:02 AM PST US From: rocket2man Subject: AeroElectric-List: B+C alternator problem Time: 12:54:19 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: B&C alterator problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > > Bob and others - > >> > >I have a newly purchased RV8 with a B&C 40 amp alternator and automotive >> > >style blade fuses. Good grounding with a firewall mounted ground bus >> > >which is then routed to the engine. The digital ammeter indicates a >> > >running load of 6-7 amps. The battery is a Concorde dry cell mounted on >> > >the firewall. On two separate occasions the 15 amp alternator field fuse >> > >has blown without any additional or noted transient loads being placed on >> > >the alternator. The builder had this happen to him also and he thought it >> > >was the battery so he replaced it. The new, year old Concorde battery has >> > >great cranking power so I am not looking at this as a potential >> > >problem. The only other problem I have noted is when using all of the >> > >lights, strobes, fuel pump and electric flaps the main 40 amp C/B popped >> > >once. Ignoring this as an overload my real problem appears to be the >> > >field fuse. Why does the 15 amp field fuse blow and what's the smartest >> > >way to diagnose this problem? Thank you. JBB >> The first problem is that the original builder did not understand the physics of the system he/she was crafting and chose not to study and understand why the z-figures were designed the way they are. A 40A breaker on a 40A alternator is UNDERSIZED. The nameplate rating of an alternator is for worst-case conditions. I.e. minimum rpm for full output and max ambient operating temperature. Under less stressful conditions, the alternator may deliver 15 to 25% more current. This says that the 60A breaker on the b-lead of 60A alternators in 100,000 GA aircraft is DESIGNED to nuisance trip. Suggest you replace the 40A breaker with a 30-50A current limiter out on the firewall. There should not be a field fuse with an LR series regulator. These us crowbar OV protection and are designed to work downstream of a breaker only. Is the recommended 5A breaker also installed? IF so, the wiring between the breaker and the bus needs little if any protection. The z-figures recommend a fusible link . . . exceedingly robust compared to the fuse. Now we need to figure out what's irritating the OV protection system. Do I presume correctly that the regulator also came from B&C (LR3 series?) or is there some other combination of regulator/ov in place? I'll assume that since the field protection is being nuisance tripped, there is some form of crowbar ov protection in place. The ov protection may be an older version that was sensitive to some forms of normal bus transients. The designs at both B&C and AeroElectric Connection were modified to eliminate that condition . . . the system you're working with may need to be updated. This is not a condition unique to 'crowbar' ov protection. EVERY ov protection system has some form of comparator between bus voltage and some stable reference. When a setpoint is exceeded, it sends a signal to some form of disconnect device (relay, transistor, scr, etc). There is a dynamic component to ov protection too . . . voltage excursions above the setpoint are allowed as long as they do not exceed certain time intervals. It's the fine tuning of the dynamic sensitivity that makes some products prone to nuisance trips. I've probably designed two dozen or more OV protection systems in my career, I've only had to re-tune two of them. In one case, the transient condition generated by the aircraft was greater than the Mil-STD-704 guidelines to which the product was crafted. Tell us what regulator/ov combination is installed. If an LR3, what's the manufacturing date? If an AEC crowbar module, what colors of wires does it have. Older versions are red/black, newer are orange/black. Bob . . . Bob - Here are more specifics for this installation: The wiring diagram provided by the builder (and it seems to be accurate) is the "Z-1, Simple system with Toggle Mag Sw and Linear Regulator." The battery is a Concorde RG 25XC. The alternator is a B+C L40, s/n 010806. The regulator/OV prot is a B+C LR-3, s/n 11920211. The C/B from the alt output is only 40 amps! I'm guessing it should be bigger based on your previous comments or I can use a current limiter you suggest but I'll need to know which one/where are they available. The alternator field fuse that has blown several times I rechecked and is 15 amps. Does the "nuisance trip" scenario you speak of manifest as blowing the 15 amp fuse? What else would you like to know and what do you think? Thank you. JBB ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:38 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? From: "Beemer" Is there a source for these batteries in an 8ah rating that does not have the fast-on tabs, such as those used on wheelchairs? The smallest I've found with bolt-on terminals is 17ah. Thx, Bradley -------- Beemer KF2 (and now an M3!) Middle Georgia Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0872#200872 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B+C alternator problem At 11:41 PM 8/26/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob - >Here are more specifics for this installation: > >The wiring diagram provided by the builder (and it seems to be accurate) >is the "Z-1, Simple system with Toggle Mag Sw and Linear Regulator." Okay, this drawing was 'retired' at Z-9 or so and replaced with Z-11. They are similar in many respects. >The battery is a Concorde RG 25XC. >The alternator is a B+C L40, s/n 010806. >The regulator/OV prot is a B+C LR-3, s/n 11920211. I don't recall how to read B&C's serial numbers with respect to manufacturing date. But it may well be that this one pre-dates the modifications added later to reduce probability of nuisance trips. > >The C/B from the alt output is only 40 amps! I'm guessing it should be >bigger based on your previous comments or I can use a current limiter you >suggest but I'll need to know which one/where are they available. You can get the legacy current limiters and mounting bases from B&C. Alternatively, a MAXI fuse holder from the O'Rileys or some other parts store would do too. http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/Fuse_Holders/MaxiFuse_Holder.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/Fuses/maxi.gif They can supply the fuse too. Use a 60A. Tie the fuseholder onto the fat wire that feeds your starter contactor and tie b-lead power into the system at the starter contactor. > The alternator field fuse that has blown several times I rechecked and > is 15 amps. Does the "nuisance trip" scenario you speak of manifest as > blowing the 15 amp fuse? Yes. I dug back into the archives and found that Z-1 suggested the 15A fuse protected feeder from the fuseblock that was followed downstream by a 5A breaker on the panel. Later drawings suggested a much more robust protection of the alternator field breaker feed in the form of a fusible link . . . see Z-11. For your purposes now, replace the 15A fuse with a 30A fuse. This will probably transfer the trip to the breaker instead of the fuse. It seems likely that the LR3 is seeing something that irritates it's ov protection sensing. The original design observed all the recommendations for noise immunity but when we started installing this system in the Bonanzas, one of the test pilots found that if he turned both landing and taxi lights on at the same time, he could trip the standby alternator ov system. The noises generated by this event were pretty spectacular. Inrush currents from two large lamps through the very bouncy contacts of W31 breaker-switches put some really ugly transients onto the bus. It was doubtful that anyone would DO that thing but it wasn't difficult to modify the circuit to ignore this stimulus. We modified the circuit and have experienced no difficulties (that I'm aware of) since. >What else would you like to know and what do you think? Thank you. JBB Call B&C at 316-283-8000 and see if they're interested in updating your LR-3 with respect to noise immunity. If push comes to shove, I can modify it for you but let's see what they say first. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:31 AM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers I use Ideal 45-097: http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218%20#45-097 The wire stop can be handy for multiple strips you want of the same length, it's quickly removable, and only $7: http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218%20#L-5270 The 45-097 uses replaceable dies which come in different wire sizes. Not sure what you mean by 'recommendations for Molex 0.062" contacts'. I bought a collection of Molex connectors recently at Frys. Ralph Finch RV-9A QB Davis, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:38 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers Searching through the archives, the comment made was that the best stripper is the Ideal 45-187, which naturally is discontinued. Looking through their catalog shows a wide variety of apparently almost identical strippers. The 45-177 seems quite similar, but is missing the short stop latch and wire stop. How useful are those features ? Should I be looking for a 45-187 in the marketplace anyway ? Non of the the strippers seem to handle the range of wire that is used in aircraft. Do I need to buy two strippers to handle 10-14 gauge and another for 16-26, or can I just swap blades (how much of a pain is that ??) ? What about the "Lite" strippers, smaller and easier to squeeze sounds great. What is the downside ? Additionally, I was unable to find any recommendations for Molex 0.062" contacts. How about the Sargent 3133-CT ? Thanks ! Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? At 04:48 AM 8/27/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Is there a source for these batteries in an 8ah rating that does not have >the fast-on tabs, such as those used on wheelchairs? The smallest I've >found with bolt-on terminals is 17ah. > >Thx, >Bradley The field of choices drops rapidly when you go below 17 a.h. Few manufacturers of smaller batteries are interested in the applications that include engine cranking. Concorde used to have a smaller battery with machine screw threaded brass terminals but I think they've discontinued it. B&C offers a 12 a.h. with fat-wire connections . . . http://www.bandc.biz/BC103-1.pdf I believe this is the Odyssey PC545 http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc545series.htm aa56ea1.jpg which has a 14 a.h. capacity at the 20 hr rate. There is one smaller. The PC310 has fat-wire terminals (4mm) and capable of cranking engines. You can get the technical manual for the PC series batteries at: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Batteries/Enersys_Hawker/Odyssey_PC_Series_TM.pdf You'll note that the 310 is less than half the battery than the popular PC625. What are your requirements for capacity? Have you done an energy study for battery-only endurance? The 310 is not cheap and it's fragile compared to it's larger siblings. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:05 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers At 01:38 AM 8/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Searching through the archives, the comment made was that the best >stripper is the Ideal 45-187, which naturally is discontinued. >Looking through their catalog shows a wide variety of apparently >almost identical strippers. > >The 45-177 seems quite similar, but is missing the short stop latch >and wire stop. How useful are those features ? Should I be looking >for a 45-187 in the marketplace anyway ? No, the 177 is fine. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Ideal_Stripmaster/stripmaster.pdf I've had stops on my strippers over the years . . . took 'em of and pitched 'em. Not particularly useful at least to me. >Non of the the strippers seem to handle the range of wire that is used >in aircraft. Do I need to buy two strippers to handle 10-14 gauge and >another for 16-26, or can I just swap blades (how much of a pain is >that ??) ? You DON'T want to disassemble these for the purpose of stripping a few large wires. Get the 45-177. Review http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html and do something else for the very few numbers of larger wires you need to strip. >What about the "Lite" strippers, smaller and easier to squeeze sounds >great. What is the downside ? They're fine. >Additionally, I was unable to find any recommendations for Molex >0.062" contacts. How about the Sargent 3133-CT ? Molex catalogs cite a low-cost tool HT B&C offers an open-barrel crimp tool BCT-1 thata will install the .062, .093 and similar pins from all suppliers of the open-barrel pin product. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html Don't buy a 45-177 yet. I'm negotiating for a bucket full of industrial surplus tools that includes a quantity of 4-quadrant crimp tools and Idea strippers with Tefzel dies in them. They will be offered from my website for a whole lot less than new. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:07 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? Search the Dekka line. Same thing as Odysey with bolt on terminials 8 AH. Ken Beemer wrote: > > Is there a source for these batteries in an 8ah rating that does not have the fast-on tabs, such as those used on wheelchairs? The smallest I've found with bolt-on terminals is 17ah. > > Thx, > Bradley > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:26 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:24 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers At 01:38 AM 8/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Searching through the archives, the comment made was that the best >stripper is the Ideal 45-187, which naturally is discontinued. >Looking through their catalog shows a wide variety of apparently >almost identical strippers. > >The 45-177 seems quite similar, but is missing the short stop latch >and wire stop. How useful are those features ? Should I be looking >for a 45-187 in the marketplace anyway ? No, the 177 is fine. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Ideal_Stripmaster/stripmaster .pd f I've had stops on my strippers over the years . . . took 'em of and pitched 'em. Not particularly useful at least to me. >Non of the the strippers seem to handle the range of wire that is used >in aircraft. Do I need to buy two strippers to handle 10-14 gauge and >another for 16-26, or can I just swap blades (how much of a pain is >that ??) ? You DON'T want to disassemble these for the purpose of stripping a few large wires. Get the 45-177. Review http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html and do something else for the very few numbers of larger wires you need to strip. >What about the "Lite" strippers, smaller and easier to squeeze sounds >great. What is the downside ? They're fine. >Additionally, I was unable to find any recommendations for Molex >0.062" contacts. How about the Sargent 3133-CT ? Molex catalogs cite a low-cost tool HT B&C offers an open-barrel crimp tool BCT-1 thata will install the .062, .093 and similar pins from all suppliers of the open-barrel pin product. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html Don't buy a 45-177 yet. I'm negotiating for a bucket full of industrial surplus tools that includes a quantity of 4-quadrant crimp tools and Idea strippers with Tefzel dies in them. They will be offered from my website for a whole lot less than new. Bob . . . I have a CSA 0760. This is a ratchet type and is good for 22 - 10 AWG wire. Mine are old and have the manufacturer name Crimpcx. The current name on the internet is Pressmaster, appears to be exactly the same as the ones I have. These work very well, and the crimp pressure ratchet can be adjusted for proper crimp. Roger ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:34 AM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage dropping resistor calculations Okay guys take it esy on the electrically ignorant. I have a Lowrance 2000C GPS in my trike that just eats batteries. I get about an hour from 4 new AA's. It was no problem when I was only flying that long one way, I'd just carry four spares in my pocket and change them out before starting home. When I started going further afield I decided to use one of the open slots on the fuse panel and power it from ship's power instead. Since I had the lighter cord that came with the GPS but no lighter recepticle on the trike, I cut off the lighter plug, put on a couple of fastons on the ends of the wires and was FD & H for the last year. I should add that I was smart enough to look at the innards of the plug just to make sure there wasn't anything inside that looked critical to powering the unit. There was one small resistor, but it seemed to me it was for the LED and not the GPS. It was while going through the manual some thirty hours since making the change to onboard power that I began to worry there is no universal power adapter built into the GPS. I fear that I may be pumping 12V into a 6V power supply. This morning I pulled the + wire at the fuse panel and measured the current draw at just slightly under .6 amps. If I understand Ohm's law, and there's some doubt in my mind about that, I need a 10 ohm resistor to drop the voltage, so a stop at Rat Shack was in order. I now have a pair of 10 ohm 1 watt resistors, and two questions. Did I do the math correctly? Am I worrying about nothing? Seems to me the GPS runs through the lighter cord just fine on 12 volts, but I sure would hate to damage it by being stupid. Thanks, Rick Girard ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? At 10:35 AM 8/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: > >Search the Dekka line. Same thing as Odysey with bolt on terminials 8 AH. >Ken Do you have a specific part number for Deka? While looking for them I found this "Power Star" product on Ebay bb99768.jpg It's a 9 a.h. device, probably at the 20hour rate. This makes it a 4.5 a.h. battery for powering an e-bus for 3 hours . . . i.e, about 1.5A ebus. Size is L = 5.91 x W = 3.39 H = 4.21 A 9 a.h. battery would weigh in at about 7-8 pounds. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:18 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Voltage dropping resistor calculations From: jon@finleyweb.net =0AFear not Rick, you are ok. I too have the 2000c wired directly into my 12V bus. I don't remember the exact specs but the unit is very tolerant of voltage. Seems like it was anything from 6 to 24 volts (or something like that - check the documentation to confirm).=0A=0A =0A=0AAlso, if you insta ll a resistor, the 2000c's voltage display will no longer represent what is on the ship's bus. This is not my primary voltage display but it is a nic e backup.=0A=0A =0A=0AJon=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: "Richard Girard" =0ASent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:33pm=0AT o: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage dr opping resistor calculations=0A=0A=0A=0AOkay guys take it esy on the electr ically ignorant. I have a Lowrance 2000C GPS in my trike that just eats bat teries. I get about an hour from 4 new AA's. It was no problem when I was o nly flying that long one way, I'd just carry four spares in my pocket and c hange them out before starting home. When I started going further afield I decided to use one of the open slots on the fuse panel and power it from sh ip's power instead. Since I had the lighter cord that came with the GPS but no lighter recepticle on the trike, I cut off the lighter plug, put on a c ouple of fastons on the ends of the wires and was FD & H for the last year. I should add that I was smart enough to look at the innards of the plug ju st to make sure there wasn't anything inside that looked critical to poweri ng the unit. There was one small resistor, but it seemed to me it was for t he LED and not the GPS. It was while going through the manual some thirty h ours since making the change to onboard power that I began to worry there i s no universal power adapter built into the GPS. I fear that I may be pumpi ng 12V into a 6V power supply.=0AThis morning I pulled the + wire at the fu se panel and measured the current draw at just slightly under .6 amps. If I understand Ohm's law, and there's some doubt in my mind about that, I need a 10 ohm resistor to drop the voltage, so a stop at Rat Shack was in order . I now have a pair of 10 ohm 1 watt resistors, and two questions.=0ADid I do the math correctly? Am I worrying about nothing? Seems to me the GPS run s through the lighter cord just fine on 12 volts, but I sure would hate to damage it by being stupid.=0A=0AThanks,=0ARick Girard=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage dropping resistor calculations At 01:33 PM 8/27/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Okay guys take it esy on the electrically ignorant. I have a Lowrance >2000C GPS in my trike that just eats batteries. I get about an hour from 4 >new AA's. It was no problem when I was only flying that long one way, I'd >just carry four spares in my pocket and change them out before starting >home. When I started going further afield I decided to use one of the open >slots on the fuse panel and power it from ship's power instead. Since I >had the lighter cord that came with the GPS but no lighter recepticle on >the trike, I cut off the lighter plug, put on a couple of fastons on the >ends of the wires and was FD & H for the last year. I should add that I >was smart enough to look at the innards of the plug just to make sure >there wasn't anything inside that looked critical to powering the unit. >There was one small resistor, but it seemed to me it was for the LED and >not the GPS. It was while going through the manual some thirty hours since >making the change to onboard power that I began to worry there is no >universal power adapter built into the GPS. I fear that I may be pumping >12V into a 6V power supply. >This morning I pulled the + wire at the fuse panel and measured the >current draw at just slightly under .6 amps. If I understand Ohm's law, >and there's some doubt in my mind about that, I need a 10 ohm resistor to >drop the voltage, so a stop at Rat Shack was in order. I now have a pair >of 10 ohm 1 watt resistors, and two questions. >Did I do the math correctly? Am I worrying about nothing? Seems to me the >GPS runs through the lighter cord just fine on 12 volts, but I sure would >hate to damage it by being stupid. Hmmmm . . . if this was the cord supplied with the unit, it seems that it SHOULD run on 12v . . . however, the manual I found at: http://www.lowrance.com/upload/Lowrance/Documents/Manuals/airMap2000c_0148-471_080504.pdf page 11 says it runs on 6v using an external power cord with cigar lighter adapter. This implies to me that the power cord has a 14v to 6v down converter. Recommend you do not use a resistor . . . too much voltage variation with respect to current draw. Further, the resistor would dissipate .6 at 6 to 8 volts for a maximum of 5w . . . pretty warm for your 1 watt devices. Better to craft a voltage regulator that is not unlike the little variable dimmer supplies we used to offer . . . and B&C still does. You can get the parts at RS and wire like: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Dimmers/9013_Ins.pdf In this case, you would replace the 910 ohm resistor with a 1500 ohm resistor and just run it to ground instead of taking it off the board to a control pot. We'll be offering a filtered, regulated, step-down supply that's jumper selectable for 9, 7.5, 6, 4.5 and 3 volts. If you're not in a big hurry, you can have the proof-of-concept model. Probably late next week. It's 2.1 x 2.1 inches footprint an looks like this critter . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9006/9006-800-2.jpg except that it will have metal mounting base and a small array of jumper pins on top to select one of 5 operating voltages. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:52 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? Mine are ETX9 Dekka Power Sports batteries. As mentioned before one will start my subaru fine but they normally auto parallel for cranking on my bird as per Z-14. The cables bolt onto the top or the side of the battery which is convenient. Next size up is the ETX12 at about the same price. Made in USA. Ken Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 10:35 AM 8/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Search the Dekka line. Same thing as Odysey with bolt on terminials 8 AH. >> Ken > > Do you have a specific part number for Deka? While looking > for them I found this "Power Star" product on Ebay > > bb99768.jpg > > > It's a 9 a.h. device, probably at the 20hour rate. This makes > it a 4.5 a.h. battery for powering an e-bus for 3 hours . . . > i.e, about 1.5A ebus. Size is L = 5.91 x W = 3.39 H = 4.21 > > *Truncated!* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *This message exceeded the Maximum Message Size set in Account Settings, > so we have only downloaded the first few lines from the mail server.* > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:53 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Voltage dropping resistor calculations I think Jon is right and you are fine. If there was any kind of voltage dropping in the plug it would get noticeably warm like my cell phone plug and I've never noticed the 2000c plug to get warm. And as mentioned the 2000c will display the correct system voltage of 14.3 when I look. Also notice that the display dims noticeably on 6v battery power compared to using 12 volts and I believe the manual says that is normal. The only batteries worth putting in my unit are 2000mah or larger NiMh. Alkaline life seems to be measured in minutes. The black and white model is much more battery friendly. Ken jon@finleyweb.net wrote: > Fear not Rick, you are ok. I too have the 2000c wired directly into my > 12V bus. I don't remember the exact specs but the unit is very tolerant > of voltage. Seems like it was anything from 6 to 24 volts (or something > like that - check the documentation to confirm). > > Also, if you install a resistor, the 2000c's voltage display will no > longer represent what is on the ship's bus. This is not my primary > voltage display but it is a nice backup. > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Richard Girard" > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:33pm > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage dropping resistor calculations > > Okay guys take it esy on the electrically ignorant. I have a Lowrance > 2000C GPS in my trike that just eats batteries. I get about an hour from > 4 new AA's. It was no problem when I was only flying that long one way, > I'd just carry four spares in my pocket and change them out before > starting home. When I started going further afield I decided to use one > of the open slots on the fuse panel and power it from ship's power > instead. Since I had the lighter cord that came with the GPS but no > lighter recepticle on the trike, I cut off the lighter plug, put on a > couple of fastons on the ends of the wires and was FD & H for the last > year. I should add that I was smart enough to look at the innards of the > plug just to make sure there wasn't anything inside that looked critical > to powering the unit. There was one small resistor, but it seemed to me > it was for the LED and not the GPS. It was while going through the > manual some thirty hours since making the change to onboard power that I > began to worry there is no universal power adapter built into the GPS. I > fear that I may be pumping 12V into a 6V power supply. > This morning I pulled the + wire at the fuse panel and measured the > current draw at just slightly under .6 amps. If I understand Ohm's law, > and there's some doubt in my mind about that, I need a 10 ohm resistor > to drop the voltage, so a stop at Rat Shack was in order. I now have a > pair of 10 ohm 1 watt resistors, and two questions. > Did I do the math correctly? Am I worrying about nothing? Seems to me > the GPS runs through the lighter cord just fine on 12 volts, but I sure > would hate to damage it by being stupid. > > Thanks, > Rick Girard > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:40 PM PST US From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp Bob: I've purchased 2 Push-to-Test Lamps: MS25041 (amber) for my Low Voltage Warning Lamp and another one (blue) for Low Oil Pressure. The lamps have3 tabs, numbered 1-2-3 and I'm trying to determine how to wire this lamp: which is ground, hot and common.... Any help or suggestions appreciated. Henry ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:35 PM PST US From: Bill Ledbetter Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimpers Bob.. Looks like that link to for the 177 data should be http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Ideal_Stripmaster/Stripmaster.pdf v. the ... /stripmaster.pdf Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 01:38 AM 8/27/2008 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Searching through the archives, the comment made was that the best >> stripper is the Ideal 45-187, which naturally is discontinued. >> Looking through their catalog shows a wide variety of apparently >> almost identical strippers. >> >> The 45-177 seems quite similar, but is missing the short stop latch >> and wire stop. How useful are those features ? Should I be looking >> for a 45-187 in the marketplace anyway ? > > No, the 177 is fine. See: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Tools/Ideal_Stripmaster/stripmaster.pdf > > > I've had stops on my strippers over the years . . . took 'em > of and pitched 'em. Not particularly useful at least to me. > >> Non of the the strippers seem to handle the range of wire that is used >> in aircraft. Do I need to buy two strippers to handle 10-14 gauge and >> another for 16-26, or can I just swap blades (how much of a pain is >> that ??) ? > > You DON'T want to disassemble these for the purpose > of stripping a few large wires. Get the 45-177. Review > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strippers/strippers.html > > and do something else for the very few numbers of larger > wires you need to strip. > > >> What about the "Lite" strippers, smaller and easier to squeeze sounds >> great. What is the downside ? > > They're fine. > >> Additionally, I was unable to find any recommendations for Molex >> 0.062" contacts. How about the Sargent 3133-CT ? > > Molex catalogs cite a low-cost tool HT > > B&C offers an open-barrel crimp tool BCT-1 thata > will install the .062, .093 and similar pins from > all suppliers of the open-barrel pin product. > > See: > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html > > Don't buy a 45-177 yet. I'm negotiating for a bucket > full of industrial surplus tools that includes a > quantity of 4-quadrant crimp tools and Idea strippers > with Tefzel dies in them. They will be offered from > my website for a whole lot less than new. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:35 PM PST US From: "Don Curry" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp I'm not Bob, but if I may, I'd like to provide at least a cursory answer. I just installed a pair of these lights (made by Dialight) in my aircraft and here's how we did it (the attached document is from Dialight and should bear this out). There are two hot terminals and one ground terminal. One of the hot terminals is for a switched input, so when the condition you are trying to alert yourself to (e.g., low oil pressure) occurs, the switch is closed on that wire, the circuit is completed, and the light lights. The other hot terminal is unswitched and is for the push-to-test feature; it allows the light to light when the lens is pressed even when the condition doesn't exist. I believe it is the center terminal that is the ground. Hope this helps. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henry Trzeciakowski > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:58 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp > > > > Bob: > > I've purchased 2 Push-to-Test Lamps: MS25041 (amber) for my Low Voltage > Warning Lamp and another one (blue) for Low Oil Pressure. The lamps have3 > tabs, numbered 1-2-3 and I'm trying to determine how to wire this lamp: > which is ground, hot and common.... > > Any help or suggestions appreciated. > > Henry > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp At 07:58 PM 8/27/2008 -0700, you wrote: > > >Bob: > >I've purchased 2 Push-to-Test Lamps: MS25041 (amber) for my Low Voltage >Warning Lamp and another one (blue) for Low Oil Pressure. The lamps have3 >tabs, numbered 1-2-3 and I'm trying to determine how to wire this lamp: >which is ground, hot and common.... > >Any help or suggestions appreciated. A schematic for the fixture can be found at: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/PTT_Dim_Fixture.jpg An exemplar application can be found in: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Push-to-Test Lamp From: Etienne Phillips On 28 Aug 2008, at 5:01 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > An exemplar application can be found in: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf > > > Bob . . . > Hi Bob Just a question. From my understanding, looking at this doc and the attachment from Don Curry, it looks as though pin 1 is common, 2 is normal and 3 is engaged on push. In your wiring, the bulb will only light up when external power is applied, which is great. What happens though when the bulb doesn't light up , and there's supposedly external power applied? There are only 3 possibilities: there is a problem with the external power, the bulb has popped, or the circuit breaker is not closed. In the first 2 cases, pushing the lens will not make the bulb light up. Would it not be better to wire the bulb so that it allows better fault-tracing? My suggestion would be pin 1 to ground, pin 2 to the high voltage side of the contactor coil (where pin 1 is connected on your diagram), and pin 3 to a fuse then onto the battery bus (or any bus that would normally be powered when you'd want to use external power). The behaviour of the light would change though: If there is external power, the lamp will light up with the switch in either position, indicating external power is available for use If there is no external power getting in (incorrect polarity or broken power supply) the bulb will not light To test the bulb at any time, with or without external power applied, push the lens What do you think? Am I smoking my socks? Thanks Etienne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.