AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/31/08


Total Messages Posted: 28



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:22 AM - Watsonville Weekend Seminar Date Set (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 07:02 AM - 0.092 round post meter female connectors? (Steve Stearns)
     3. 09:35 AM - Re: 0.092 round post meter female connectors? (Richard Girard)
     4. 09:49 AM - Re: Avionics Back-Up Power (Carlos Trigo)
     5. 10:46 AM - Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Eric M. Jones)
     6. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 01:42 PM - Thermocouple question... (Steve Stearns)
     8. 02:33 PM - New background image on aeroelectric.com (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 03:04 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Brantel)
    10. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Ralph Finch)
    11. 03:22 PM - Dancing Ammeter (Ed Gilroy)
    12. 03:35 PM - D-100 Encoder Help (Edward Christian)
    13. 04:20 PM - Re: D-100 Encoder Help (Walstroom (Isbeschikbaar))
    14. 05:37 PM - Re: Thermocouple question... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 05:51 PM - Re: Avionics Back-Up Power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    16. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 06:25 PM - Re: Dancing Ammeter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    19. 06:49 PM - New Thermocouple question... (David M)
    20. 06:51 PM - Re: D-100 Encoder Help (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 06:57 PM - Re: D-100 Encoder Help (OOPS!) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    22. 07:16 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Brantel)
    23. 07:37 PM - Re: New background image on aeroelectric.com (Bret Smith)
    24. 07:50 PM - Re: New background image on aeroelectric.com (Sam Hoskins)
    25. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Jim Wickert)
    26. 07:59 PM - New Thermocouple question... (David M)
    27. 09:35 PM - New Thermocouple question... (David M)
    28. 10:18 PM - test (David M)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:22:49 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Watsonville Weekend Seminar Date Set
    The 'Connection is coming to the Watsonville, CA of Aircrafter's Inc to present a weekend seminar in aircraft electrical systems. Details are available at: http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/seminars.html The Watsonville seminar reservations page is at: http://aeroelectric.com/seminars/Watsonville.html Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:02:28 AM PST US
    From: Steve Stearns <steve@tomasara.com>
    Subject: 0.092 round post meter female connectors?
    Hi Bob, Do you have a recommended source for the wire terminations required to slide on the 0.092 posts on the back of electric engine instruments? Also, if a special crimp tool is required (which I'm assuming), could you recommend that as well? Many thanks, Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:35:08 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: 0.092 round post meter female connectors?
    Steve, I got those terminals from Wick's and Radio Shack has a cheap (~$10) installation tool. RickGirard On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Steve Stearns <steve@tomasara.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Bob, > > Do you have a recommended source for the wire terminations required to > slide on the 0.092 posts on the back of electric engine instruments? Also, > if a special crimp tool is required (which I'm assuming), could you > recommend that as well? > > Many thanks, > > Steve Stearns > Boulder/Longmont, Colorado > CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) > Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) > Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:49:38 AM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Avionics Back-Up Power
    > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 03:47 PM 8/30/2008 +0100, you wrote: > > >Bob > > > >Thanks for your explanation and suggestions. > > > > > > > >Anyway, which is the reason you say "we don't want to leave that feeder > >hot while the airplane is shut down ? > > > >If it s not so important, 2 relays and 1 switch could be avoided, and > >pilot workload as well& > > It's just not done (at least in the TC aircraft world) both for maintenance > and crash safety. How would you propose to wire it? > > Bob . . . > I am thinking in installing the battery in the tail deck (under the RV-9A tail fairing), in order to obtain the longest arm to help with the Balance of the aircraft. The (-) terminal will be connected to a local Ground (which is the same I used for the tail light), and the (+) terminal connected to a 16A fuse located near the battery. (Is this fuse adequate to protect the wire and the battery from any inadvertent short along the hot wire?) By the way, regarding your observation that the wire should not be hot after shutdown, because of maintenance and crash safety, my humble opinion is that, in case of maintenance it is easy to disconnect the battery or pull out the fuse, and in case of crash I do have many hot wires around. >From the fuse I will run an AWG#14 wire to a buss behind the instrument panel. Actually I'm planning this "buss" to be the "out" terminal of a diode, and I am thinking to connect the Main Battery to the "In" terminal of the Diode, to charge the Back-Up Battery. >From that "buss" (the "out" terminal of the diode) I would run wires to each of the Avionics to be fed with back-up power. And that's where I come back to my initial question: How do I wire from this back-up "buss", which is permanently hot, to each of the Avionics (Comm Radio and Transponder) which only have one power input? I am prepared to be technically fustigated but please be gentle.. Carlos


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:46:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
    My two cents.... I think Jim Weir was not well-advised in publishing his article. There are tons of DC-DC converters available for less than what it would cost you to build one, even if you forget the bench full of test gear and the years of education, and the labor required to do this job well. My advice-- 1) Buy the supply if you need one. www.Astrodyne.com, etc. or Google "DC-DC switcher supply" 2) Don't use a switcher supply if battery voltage DC will do. 3) If you really MUST make one, sign onto National Semiconductor's Web Bench where they will design a supply to your specs, component list, PCB layout and all. 4) This is not a job for the amateur. Switchers supplies are hard work, especially the quiet ones. Here's a free million-dollars-worth of education--"Spend the extra money for a four-layer PCB". 5) The fact is that the LED will almost certainly last longer than the power supply. This should give one pause.... "Inventor: A person who makes an ingenious arrangement of wheels, levers and springs, and believes it civilization." --Ambrose Bierce -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1826#201826


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:57:24 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    At 10:44 AM 8/31/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >My two cents.... > >I think Jim Weir was not well-advised in publishing his article. There >are tons of DC-DC converters available for less than what it would cost >you to build one, even if you forget the bench full of test gear and the >years of education, and the labor required to do this job well. > >My advice-- > >1) Buy the supply if you need one. www.Astrodyne.com, etc. or Google >"DC-DC switcher supply" Agreed. One is almost always $time$ ahead to "buy" rather than "make". >2) Don't use a switcher supply if battery voltage DC will do. The idea of "will do" needs defining. The thing that started this thread was a quest to drive a high-output LED. These tend to be in the hundreds of milliamps. Deriving a constant-current supply is impossible without resorting to active electronics. Linear drivers are as inefficient as resistors; energy -> heat >3) If you really MUST make one, sign onto National Semiconductor's Web >Bench where they will design a supply to your specs, component list, PCB >layout and all. Yeah . . . sorta. As I mentioned in the earlier post, LEDs like to be driven constant current. The web-design applications on most sites tend to be constant voltage supplies. >4) This is not a job for the amateur. Switchers supplies are hard work, >especially the quiet ones. Here's a free million-dollars-worth of >education--"Spend the extra money for a four-layer PCB". Multilayer boards can be helpful in reducing conducted and radiated noise . . . but it's not essential nor is it terribly expensive. Expresspcb.com will fabricate 4-layer boards for really cheap if you use their software and order over the 'net using credit card. However, I've not found it necessary to resort to multi- layer topology. Compact layout with good grounds combined with metallic enclosures drives your radiated emissions issues more than anything else. Filters in the input/output lines controls conducted emissions. NONE of the design-on-line software programs speak to EMC compatibility issues. You add the QUIET parts after you get the WORKING parts going. > >5) The fact is that the LED will almost certainly last longer than the >power supply. This should give one pause.... Yup, $education$ IS always expensive. Zach and I are taking on his first HVAC job in M.L. next Tuesday. We expect to salvage a new install that the only local guy attempted but fell short on some combination of skills, materials, or tools. We're not going to even break even on this effort due to spool up costs of nearly $1,000 in tools and supplies (with more to come) plus the fact that the job economics won't support paying what the service is REALLY worth. However, we're going to add to our $education$ while our customer is going to see a demonstration of do-it-right-the-first-time. I expect to add the contractor to Zach's further list of appreciative and confident customers. Risky? Yes. Give us pause? Yes . . . just long enough to figure out that it's but the beginning of a long-term goal. So if your short term goals are to get daylight under the wheels on a 99% complete project, by all means buy your LED drivers. But if figuring out how to DIY fits your combination of curiosity and willingness to add to a skill-set, go for it - and we'll help! See: http://tinyurl.com/6djl2y for a host of components and architectures for constant current supplies. If one wants to make it work first, then we'll tackle the make it quiet part later. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:42:24 PM PST US
    From: Steve Stearns <steve@tomasara.com>
    Subject: Thermocouple question...
    Bob and group, First I would like confirmation that I'm correctly interpreting my inherited EGT/CHT installation. What I found on my pusher project was that the EGT and CHT thermocouple wire ended on the firewall at a terminal strip (and possibly even on the way to the terminal strip in the CHT case). The rest of the run to the instrument (an EC-1) is in copper and included another terminal strip junction and a lap-solder junction at the instrument. The wires coming out of the instrument appears to be tinned copper. Instrument manual clearly says the extension wiring must be type "K" thermocouple wire but the wire exiting the instrument (that used to be connectorized) appears to be tinned copper. My interpretation is that they were using on the connections to the instrument wires as the cold junction and assumed the temperature at these junctions were the same as that in the instrument (which seems like a good enough assumption). From this I would believe that the readings used by the previous owner would be in error (presumably low) by the difference in temperature between the back of the panel and under the cowl. Is this right? My intended fix is to use thermocouple extension wire continuously from the thermocouple sensor wire up to behind the panel. And since I am converting from one cylinder coverage to all four plus a spare, I'll be adding a five position, double pole rotary switch to each set (EGT and CHT). To both get the extra couples to cancel and to be able to fit acceptable sized rotary switches, my plan is to run all the thermocouple wires to a set of terminal blocks (or an equivalent) at convenient place behind the panel. There the signals switch to smaller gauge copper (four six-wire cables) up to the rotary switches (wire length less than 3', signal length less than 6'). Back at the terminal strip the post-switch EGT pair and CHT pair go back to type "K" extension wire and run back up to the instrument for connection (via connectors in place of lap-joints) for correctly located "cold" junctions. Did I get this right? Is there a significant negative to the "less than six feet" of signal path on copper behind the panel? Thanks in advance, Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:33:20 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: New background image on aeroelectric.com
    Yesterday, Rich Girard added to the life-experiences of Dr. Dee and myself with rides in his Trike. That's what I call getting up close and personal to the flying experience! Got a picture of the present state of 1K1 on short final and stuck it up on aeroelectric.com as the background picture. You can see the new 2000' extension of the runway in the distance. The ol' cow pasture has become a 'real' airport. Scenes for the movie Gypsy Moth were filmed at 1K1. It was still a sod strip then. We had a sign on the wall of the big hangar making note of the fact that Burt Lancaster used it for a dressing room during the filming. I note that the runway is now 17/35 . . . seems the compass- north has moved enough to justify re-numbering the runway. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:04:19 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    From: "Brantel" <bchesteen@hughes.net>
    Guys, We already have a cheap OTS driver available, what I want to know is how to put it on an airplane and keep it from trashing my airband radio gear with RFI noise..... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1850#201850


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:06:13 PM PST US
    From: "Ralph Finch" <rgf@dcn.davis.ca.us>
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    I fully agree. Describing this is the same as a handyman magazine describing how to design wall studs. Huh? As a kitplane builder I don't want to design and build fundamental electrical/electronic devices. If I did I'd be subscribing to ARRL or similar. Instead, Kitplanes should have electrical articles that either describe basic technique (for the steady stream of beginners) or higher-level issues like connecting displays/autopilots/GPSs, maybe some of the APRS stuff, maybe electronic ignitions... Given Mr. Weir's well-deserved reputation as an abusive hot-head in public forums, and his poor reputation as a seller in VAF, maybe Kitplanes should consider someone else writing the electrical articles. Bob? Ralph Finch -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M. Jones Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:45 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver --> <emjones@charter.net> My two cents.... I think Jim Weir was not well-advised in publishing his article. There are tons of DC-DC converters available for less than what it would cost you to build one, even if you forget the bench full of test gear and the years of education, and the labor required to do this job well. <cut>


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:22:25 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Gilroy" <egilroy@gmail.com>
    Subject: Dancing Ammeter
    Hello: Been a member for a few weeks now, trying to figure out a problem on a club 172 (building a RV-8). The term "dancing" seems to be applied to what is happening. With light load on (no landing/taxi lights, pitot heat, etc) the ammeter makes a rhythmic swing around the zero point of the meter. I would guess 60-80 times per second. This started a year ago and our A+P says no big deal, at least 3 ships at our airport have the same problem!!! With a heavy, full load (turn everything on), ammeter firms right up. I had a nasty alternator/battery failure last november inside the NYC VFR corridor (no place to lose your comm!!!) and replaced alternator + regulator but this problem stills haunts us. We recently swapped the regulator with another, no joy. Ideas on how to proceed? Thanks... Ed


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:35:19 PM PST US
    From: Edward Christian <edchristian@knology.net>
    Subject: D-100 Encoder Help
    Just rewired new instrument panel in RV-6. Everything works except the altitude encoder? Dynon D-100 EFIS (using this as encoder) From the DB25 PIN #13 goes out and splits to: 1. Garmin 300XL Nav/Comm for altitude input - goes to pin 17 (RS 232 input) 2. To Dynon Altitude Encoder Converter (to grey scale) then to King KT-76A Transponder (Grey Code connections) Anybody have experience with this setup? Does anyone know the specific settings in D-100 and Garmin 300XL I need to change? Thanks, Ed


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:20:03 PM PST US
    From: "Walstroom (Isbeschikbaar)" <walstroom@isbeschikbaar.nl>
    Subject: Re: D-100 Encoder Help
    Did you check your baudrates ? 9600 bps. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Edward Christian" <edchristian@knology.net> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 12:34 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-100 Encoder Help > <edchristian@knology.net> > > Just rewired new instrument panel in RV-6. > > Everything works except the altitude encoder? > > Dynon D-100 EFIS (using this as encoder) > > From the DB25 PIN #13 goes out and splits to: > > 1. Garmin 300XL Nav/Comm for altitude input - goes to > pin 17 (RS 232 input) > > 2. To Dynon Altitude Encoder Converter (to grey scale) > then to King KT-76A Transponder (Grey Code connections) > > Anybody have experience with this setup? Does anyone know the > specific settings in D-100 and Garmin 300XL I need to change? > > Thanks, > > Ed > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:37:48 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Thermocouple question...
    At 02:40 PM 8/31/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Bob and group, > >First I would like confirmation that I'm correctly interpreting my >inherited EGT/CHT installation. What I found on my pusher project was >that the EGT and CHT thermocouple wire ended on the firewall at a terminal >strip (and possibly even on the way to the terminal strip in the CHT >case). The rest of the run to the instrument (an EC-1) is in copper and >included another terminal strip junction and a lap-solder junction at the >instrument. The wires coming out of the instrument appears to be tinned >copper. Instrument manual clearly says the extension wiring must be type >"K" thermocouple wire but the wire exiting the instrument (that used to be >connectorized) appears to be tinned copper. My interpretation is >that they were using on the connections to the instrument wires as the >cold junction and assumed the temperature at these junctions were the same >as that in the instrument (which seems like a good enough >assumption). From this I would believe that the readings used by the >previous owner would be in error (presumably low) by the difference in >temperature between the back of the panel and under the cowl. Is this right? Yes . . . >My intended fix is to use thermocouple extension wire continuously from >the thermocouple sensor wire up to behind the panel. And since I am >converting from one cylinder coverage to all four plus a spare, I'll be >adding a five position, double pole rotary switch to each set (EGT and >CHT). To both get the extra couples to cancel and to be able to fit >acceptable sized rotary switches, my plan is to run all the thermocouple >wires to a set of terminal blocks (or an equivalent) at convenient place >behind the panel. There the signals switch to smaller gauge copper (four >six-wire cables) up to the rotary switches (wire length less than 3', >signal length less than 6'). Back at the terminal strip the post-switch >EGT pair and CHT pair go back to type "K" extension wire and run back up >to the instrument for connection (via connectors in place of lap-joints) >for correctly located "cold" junctions. Did I get this right? Is there a >significant negative to the "less than six feet" of signal path on copper >behind the panel? How many total measurement points are you installing? "four, 6-wire cables" brings an image of 24 conductors for 12 thermocouples total. One of my favorite "tiny" switches for thermocouples is a Grayhill GH5602 . . . http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GH5602-ND which only handles 6 thermocouples. If you need a full 12 positions, then consider the Grayhill GH7103 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GH7103-ND which is also quite compact. Consider using T/C wire all the way from the splices at the engine couples, through the switch and to the instrument. You can use "connectors" in the form of d-subs (use machined pins and 4-quad crimp tools to install) and/or 2-screw barrier strips to join K-wire to K-wire but avoid k-wire to copper joints until you are at the rear of the instrument case. Suggest TT-K-24S wire at: http://www.omega.com/pptst/XC_K_TC_WIRE.html You can get this wire in short amounts for just over a dollar a foot. See quote form at the bottom of the page cited above. I think I'd bring copper wires at the instrument out to a female wire-to-wire connector (Omega SMPW-K-MF) shown on http://www.omega.com/pptst/SMPW_SMP_HMP_HMPW.html You could bond the connector off the instrument's pigtail to the back of the instrument case with E6000. Depending on room inside the instrument, you might be able to even modify the instrument to accept a midge panel jack as shown in: http://www.omega.com/pptst/MPJ.html The 'secret' to accurate thermocouples is do-unto-Chromel- as-you-do-unto-Alumel all the way from the temp-sense junction to the instrument . . . even inside the instrument if possible but at the back of the case would probably suffice. Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:51:59 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Avionics Back-Up Power
    I am thinking in installing the battery in the tail deck (under the RV-9A tail fairing), in order to obtain the longest arm to help with the Balance of the aircraft. The (-) terminal will be connected to a local Ground (which is the same I used for the tail light), and the (+) terminal connected to a 16A fuse located near the battery. (Is this fuse adequate to protect the wire and the battery from any inadvertent short along the hot wire?). Sure, fuses are fast and tend to limit energy in the fault to the lowest practical values. By the way, regarding your observation that the wire should not be hot after shutdown, because of maintenance and crash safety, my humble opinion is that, in case of maintenance it is easy to disconnect the battery or pull out the fuse, and in case of crash I do have many hot wires around If this meets your design goals, then go for it! From the fuse I will run an AWG#14 wire to a buss behind the instrument panel. Actually Im planning this buss to be the out terminal of a diode, and I am thinking to connect the Main Battery to the In terminal of the Diode, to charge the Back-Up Battery. From that buss (the out terminal of the diode) I would run wires to each of the Avionics to be fed with back-up power. And thats where I come back to my initial question: How do I wire from this back-up buss, which is permanently hot, to each of the Avionics (Comm Radio and Transponder) which only have one power input? Okay, you already have two batteries and you've suggested that the always hot wire does not violate your design goals. You've also stated a desire not to add switches. I am prepared to be technically fustigated but please be gentle. Not a problem. If I understand your design goals accurately, then how about simply adding the second battery in parallel to the battery that is already tasked with running the panel when the alternator is off line. Fuses at both ends protects the wire, minimized parts count and avoids voltage drops associated with diodes. There's much M-Squared (mythology and misunderstanding) about paralleling batteries. It is true that any number of batteries may be paralleled for the purpose of charging them on a constant voltage source. All batteries will accept what ever energy they are capable of holding. Any number of batteries may be paralleled for the purpose of discharging them and aside from shorted-cell failures (exceedingly rare in RG batteries) all paralleled batteries will deliver all their contained energy to the load irrespective of their size or condition. Energy storage abilities of the tail-battery will be seamlessly added to those of the existing panel- battery if you simply parallel them. For the purposes of supporting good recharging times on the tail battery and minimizing voltage drop on that long run, I'll suggest 10AWG wire and 20A MAXI fuses at both ends. Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:08:46 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    At 03:03 PM 8/31/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >I fully agree. Describing this is the same as a handyman magazine >describing how to design wall studs. Huh? As a kitplane builder I don't >want to design and build fundamental electrical/electronic devices. If I >did I'd be subscribing to ARRL or similar. > >Instead, Kitplanes should have electrical articles that either describe >basic technique (for the steady stream of beginners) or higher-level issues >like connecting displays/autopilots/GPSs, maybe some of the APRS stuff, >maybe electronic ignitions... ????? I would REALLY like to see the OBAM aviation publications rise to the levels of expertise and pioneering spirit of say Contact magazine. Some of their stuff gets really technical but the articles have enough lay-speak to encourage the motivated and interested among us to pursue opportunities to learn. There are PLENTY of cook-book publications out there. I would expect many of the folks who hang out here on the List are intrigued with doing things that expand their understanding if not their core competencies while also being served with proofed recipes for success. There's room (and a need) for well written and practical articles in all disciplines and at levels of expertise in our craft. I too would be delighted if folks with expertise in the arenas you've cited were members of this List . . . but what we have is what we have . . . >Given Mr. Weir's well-deserved reputation as an abusive hot-head in public >forums, and his poor reputation as a seller in VAF, maybe Kitplanes should >consider someone else writing the electrical articles. Bob? I have spoken with the folk at Kitplanes but not in the last ten years or more. I think I even submitted an article or two but the feedback at the time suggested that their technical writing needs were covered. So without investing $time$ in discussion of how good/bad anyone else is, let us tend to our house for the purposes of enlightening our family . . . irrespective of how their goals might stack up the goals of others. Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 06:25:43 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Dancing Ammeter
    At 06:20 PM 8/31/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Hello: > > Been a member for a few weeks now, trying to figure out a problem on a > club 172 (building a RV-8). > > The term "dancing" seems to be applied to what is happening. With > light load on (no landing/taxi lights, pitot heat, etc) the ammeter makes > a rhythmic swing around the zero point of the meter. I would guess 60-80 > times per second. This started a year ago and our A+P says no big deal, > at least 3 ships at our airport have the same problem!!! With a heavy, > full load (turn everything on), ammeter firms right up. > > I had a nasty alternator/battery failure last november inside the NYC > VFR corridor (no place to lose your comm!!!) and replaced alternator + > regulator but this problem stills haunts us. We recently swapped the > regulator with another, no joy. > > Ideas on how to proceed? See list-server thread at: http://tinyurl.com/6fb32p also top of column 2 on the last page of: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Regulators/Zeftronics/R15V00_Ford_Style_Reulator.pdf and column 2, third paragraph, page 4 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grnding.pdf It'a a 99% sure deal that if you start with the circuit breaker at the bus and replace and/or clean-refurbish ALL metallic joints between the bus and the voltage regulator, the problem will go away for the twenty+ years it took for the root cause of the problem to build up. I've never encountered a mechanic that had heard of this nor an instructor that included it in his/her teachings. The slow build of TOTAL resistance in the power path that supplies field current AND shares bus voltage sense duties will eventually cause ALL airplanes to do this. The Cessnas are the worst because of the gross numbers of metallic joints in this power path. Replacing ONE of the many components may cause it go reduce or go away leading the observer to believe he/she has "slain the dragon". In fact, until all the dragons are cleaned out, others will grow to sufficient size to become the triggering event. Metallic joint include those inside the breaker, master switch, any OV relays, connector pins, and crimps to wires. Each is small but they all add up. An alternative is to replace the stock 'ford' style regulator with a more modern device that has a separate bus voltage sense wire apart from that which carries field current. Bob . . .


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:25:58 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    At 03:03 PM 8/31/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Guys, > >We already have a cheap OTS driver available, what I want to know is how >to put it on an airplane and keep it from trashing my airband radio gear >with RFI noise..... Which driver are you using. What currents flow in the leads that attach to the device. Which radios are being affected and have you determined whether the noise is getting in through audio, power or antenna leads? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:49:14 PM PST US
    From: "David M" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: New Thermocouple question...


    Message 20


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    Time: 06:51:16 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: D-100 Encoder Help
    At 06:34 PM 8/31/2008 -0400, you wrote: ><edchristian@knology.net> > >Just rewired new instrument panel in RV-6. > >Everything works except the altitude encoder? > >Dynon D-100 EFIS (using this as encoder) > > From the DB25 PIN #13 goes out and splits to: > >1. Garmin 300XL Nav/Comm for altitude input - goes to > pin 17 (RS 232 input) > >2. To Dynon Altitude Encoder Converter (to grey scale) > then to King KT-76A Transponder (Grey Code connections) > >Anybody have experience with this setup? Does anyone know the >specific settings in D-100 and Garmin 300XL I need to change? When you use one encoder to drive more than one load, it's customary to isolate the two loads from each other by means of a set of diodes in each data line wire from each load. Transcal encoder installation manuals talk about this. See pages 37 and 38 of http://www.trans-cal.com/882189rA.pdf Given that the KT-76 is not a "modern" device, I suspect leads out of the King transponder would benefit from addition of diodes. 1N4148 or similar have been used with success but a Schottky diode is preferred. See http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=SD101CDICT-ND http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=497-2493-1-ND Check the Garmin manual for "diode isolation" of the encoder data leads . . . or call the factor. It MIGHT need them too. One way to confirm that diode isolation is a viable avenue for investigation is see if the two users of altitude information work with the other user disconnected. Bob . . .


    Message 21


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    Time: 06:57:04 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: D-100 Encoder Help (OOPS!)
    At 01:17 AM 9/1/2008 +0200, you wrote: ><walstroom@isbeschikbaar.nl> > >Did you check your baudrates ? 9600 bps. > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Edward Christian" <edchristian@knology.net> >Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 12:34 AM >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: D-100 Encoder Help > >><edchristian@knology.net> >> >>Just rewired new instrument panel in RV-6. >> >>Everything works except the altitude encoder? >> >>Dynon D-100 EFIS (using this as encoder) >> >> From the DB25 PIN #13 goes out and splits to: >> >>1. Garmin 300XL Nav/Comm for altitude input - goes to >>pin 17 (RS 232 input) >> >>2. To Dynon Altitude Encoder Converter (to grey scale) >>then to King KT-76A Transponder (Grey Code connections) >> >>Anybody have experience with this setup? Does anyone know the >>specific settings in D-100 and Garmin 300XL I need to change? I got lost. I thought we were talking parallel connections to both loads. If the Garmin is able to accept either grey-code parallel OR serial data, then hook up only the serial data line from the Dynon. Leave the grey-code lines at the Garmin floating. The King needs parallel grey-code so you would hook only the King transponder to the Dynon's parallel data output. This configuration would not allow the two loads to affect each other and the diode isolation I spoke to earlier is not applicable. If there are choices of baud-rate for either the Dynon or Garmin, of course, they should be matched. Bob . . .


    Message 22


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    Time: 07:16:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    From: "Brantel" <bchesteen@hughes.net>
    Bob, I and several others have tried the wired buck puck by LEDDynamics: http://www.ledsupply.com/03023-d-n-1000.php I think most if not all of these different types of drivers from LEDDynamics have similar circuits in them and similar noise issues. I personally have the 1000mA version with two parallel runs of three K2 stars in series for 500mA on each series string of 3 LED's. This 6 LED's total side of the airplane. I do not have a panel mounted radio yet to try but several others have tried them with the SL30 with no success. I do however have a handheld with similar problems when used near these drivers. The symptoms that most report with panel mount radios is noise over the headsets and reduced sensitivity (distant signals go quiet) when the LED driver is powered on. Handheld goes nuts (tons of static/noise/inability to squelch it out) when within 50ft of these things while running the handheld on separate battery power. The literature for the driver says to put a 220uF cap across the power leads to the driver when operating with long input leads. Most report that this does nothing to help the noise issue. Others have went a step farther and installed a 220uF cap and a .1uF cap in parallel across the input leads and this reduced the audible noise on the panel mount radio but had no effect on the reduced sensitivity. Still another went a step farther and tried the same on the input and outputs of the driver with the same results. Reduced the audible noise on the panel mount radio but had no effect on the reduced sensitivity. And as a final straw, one guy put both the caps on the input leads and also added a loop thru a ferrite bead optimized for the airband on the input leads, output leads, and the wires going to and coming from his audio panel and panel mount radio. This eliminated the audible noise on the panel mount radio but had no effect on the reduced sensitivity (turn off the driver and distant stations come in loud and clear, turn on the driver and they go quiet, seems to trigger the active noise reduction circuits of the panel mount radio when the noise floor is raised). The only thing we have not tried is to put this whole mess in a sealed aluminum box and ground it. There are a bunch of us over on the VAF site that would love to get these things working with our airplanes. The driver is just too simple and inexpensive. There has to be some relativly simple fix for this. These drivers have great constant current, run at wide voltage ranges, work great with the high power LED's, and produce little to no heat. If it was not for this noise issue, the perfect thing for us.... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1904#201904


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:37:31 PM PST US
    From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
    Subject: New background image on aeroelectric.com
    Hey Bob, we can see a nice view of your house on the right before the threshold... Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:28 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: New background image on aeroelectric.com Yesterday, Rich Girard added to the life-experiences of Dr. Dee and myself with rides in his Trike. That's what I call getting up close and personal to the flying experience! Got a picture of the present state of 1K1 on short final and stuck it up on aeroelectric.com as the background picture. You can see the new 2000' extension of the runway in the distance. The ol' cow pasture has become a 'real' airport. Scenes for the movie Gypsy Moth were filmed at 1K1. It was still a sod strip then. We had a sign on the wall of the big hangar making note of the fact that Burt Lancaster used it for a dressing room during the filming. I note that the runway is now 17/35 . . . seems the compass- north has moved enough to justify re-numbering the runway. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 24


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    Time: 07:50:37 PM PST US
    From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: New background image on aeroelectric.com
    Is that an all-electric trike? Sam On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote: > Yesterday, Rich Girard added to the life-experiences of Dr. Dee and > myself with rides in his Trike. That's what I call getting > up close and personal to the flying experience! Got a picture of the > present state of 1K1 on short final and stuck it up on aeroelectric.com > as the background picture. You can see the new 2000' extension of > the runway in the distance. The ol' cow pasture has become a 'real' > airport. > > Scenes for the movie Gypsy Moth were filmed at 1K1. It was still > a sod strip then. We had a sign on the wall of the big hangar > making note of the fact that Burt Lancaster used it for a > dressing room during the filming. > > I note that the runway is now 17/35 . . . seems the compass- > north has moved enough to justify re-numbering the runway. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 07:57:09 PM PST US
    From: Jim Wickert <jimw_btg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver
    I had a conversation with an engineer from the mfg of the Buck Puck and the very first thing he suggested is to package the PWS in a container. Just going to try this? Hope he is right. Taks care Jim Wickert Vision #159 -----Original Message----- >From: Brantel <bchesteen@hughes.net> >Sent: Aug 31, 2008 10:15 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver > > >Bob, > >I and several others have tried the wired buck puck by LEDDynamics: > >http://www.ledsupply.com/03023-d-n-1000.php > >I think most if not all of these different types of drivers from LEDDynamics have similar circuits in them and similar noise issues. > >I personally have the 1000mA version with two parallel runs of three K2 stars in series for 500mA on each series string of 3 LED's. This 6 LED's total side of the airplane. > >I do not have a panel mounted radio yet to try but several others have tried them with the SL30 with no success. I do however have a handheld with similar problems when used near these drivers. > >The symptoms that most report with panel mount radios is noise over the headsets and reduced sensitivity (distant signals go quiet) when the LED driver is powered on. Handheld goes nuts (tons of static/noise/inability to squelch it out) when within 50ft of these things while running the handheld on separate battery power. > >The literature for the driver says to put a 220uF cap across the power leads to the driver when operating with long input leads. Most report that this does nothing to help the noise issue. > >Others have went a step farther and installed a 220uF cap and a .1uF cap in parallel across the input leads and this reduced the audible noise on the panel mount radio but had no effect on the reduced sensitivity. > >Still another went a step farther and tried the same on the input and outputs of the driver with the same results. Reduced the audible noise on the panel mount radio but had no effect on the reduced sensitivity. > >And as a final straw, one guy put both the caps on the input leads and also added a loop thru a ferrite bead optimized for the airband on the input leads, output leads, and the wires going to and coming from his audio panel and panel mount radio. This eliminated the audible noise on the panel mount radio but had no effect on the reduced sensitivity (turn off the driver and distant stations come in loud and clear, turn on the driver and they go quiet, seems to trigger the active noise reduction circuits of the panel mount radio when the noise floor is raised). > >The only thing we have not tried is to put this whole mess in a sealed aluminum box and ground it. > >There are a bunch of us over on the VAF site that would love to get these things working with our airplanes. The driver is just too simple and inexpensive. There has to be some relativly simple fix for this. These drivers have great constant current, run at wide voltage ranges, work great with the high power LED's, and produce little to no heat. If it was not for this noise issue, the perfect thing for us.... > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1904#201904 > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 07:59:57 PM PST US
    From: "David M" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: New Thermocouple question...


    Message 27


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    Time: 09:35:26 PM PST US
    From: "David M" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: New Thermocouple question...
    =======AVGMAIL-48BB705F0000=======--


    Message 28


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    Time: 10:18:57 PM PST US
    From: "David M" <ainut@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: test




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