Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:29 AM - Re: What am I doing wrong? (Larry Mac Donald)
2. 10:41 AM - Another alternator question (Neil Clayton)
3. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 12:57 PM - Re: What did I do wrong? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 02:01 PM - Re: Ammeter reading oddly (Peter Pengilly)
6. 03:55 PM - Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens) (F. Tim Yoder)
7. 06:07 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Brantel)
8. 09:00 PM - proper cable for engine instrument (apg86)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What am I doing wrong? |
Fergus,
Area is Pi-R squared. Not Pi-Dia.
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 15:04:37 -0400 "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> writes:
> I know, I know.
> I get into these pickles and need a rescue - must be
> age.....
> I want to replace a #4SWG welding cable with brass bar
> (copper not
> available).
> The diameter of #4 is (AE Connection, chap.8) 204 mils, or
> 0.204".
> That, times
> pi, should give the area. Divide the area by 1/8inch thick bar,
> gives 5127.1
> mils, or
> 5 inches. I cannot for the life of me believe that a bar
> cross-section of 5
> by 1/8 inches
> Is equivalent (approximately) to this piece of #4 here in my
> hands.....
> What am I doing wrong?
> Ferg
> $1/10 =10 cents; square both sides; $1/100 = 100 cents; 1 cent =
> $1.
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Another alternator question |
Also at low RPM (1000-1200) I'm seeing a "pulsing" of the ammeter,
which I took to mean the alternator is on the cusp of turning on and off.
(Also the RPM is pulsing too suggesting the alternator load is
turning on and off).
Does the alternator turn off at low revs? What dictates the
switching? Can I affect the switching point?
Thanks
Neil
At 06:10 PM 9/6/2008, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
>At 05:49 PM 9/6/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>When I first start the engine, and then engage the alternator, the
>>Van's ammeter flips over to +20 for a few seconds.
>>Then it gradually descends to zero and settles a needle's width on
>>the -ve side of zero, where it sits for the duration.
>>If I turn the alternator off, the ammeter goes to -10 so I know
>>it's sensing something, but the slight -ve reading in flight bothers me.
>>
>>Do you think it's just an adjustment issue on the gauge, or is
>>something else going on?
>
> Van's ammeter is an electronically signal conditioned instrument
> with scale and offset adjustment pots inside. It sounds like
> it's just out of calibration. This is ONE of the reasons
> I don't recommend battery ammeters.
>
> If you also have a voltmeter . . . THIS is the true guardian
> of flight confidence. If the voltage is staying above
> battery charge levels 13.8 minimum, 14.2 nominal, 14.6 maximum
> then all is well in Electronville.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
At 08:04 AM 9/4/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>The driver shipped direct to you on Tuesday. Please let me know when you
>get it.
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
Got all the parts in and assembled a WAG filter
assembly. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/Buck-Puck_1.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Lighting/Buck-Puck/Buck-Puck_2.jpg
Don't have time to do the RFI tests so I'll just mail the
whole thing back to you to see how well we did.
Shoot me your return address right quick.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: What did I do wrong? |
At 04:13 PM 9/6/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>At 13:14 9/6/2008, you wrote:
>>Well, of course - my memory of simple math let me down again!
>>Thanks to rjquillin and N8ZG, I have found that pi*D is the circumference.
>>On the other hand I got three different answers, since Circular Mils is a
>>square of D, the answers are a bit different.
>> In any event, what an advantage this net is!
>>Thanks again!
>>Ferg
>
>Mercy, the coffee and day finally kicked in...
>No one ripped me earlier, despite my rightfully deserving it.
>Besides being decimally challenged, and suffering fat fingers, I forgot
>the CMA to in2 conversion of .7854 x 10e-6.
>
>That .204 diameter listed is for solid wire, you don't have solid wire and
>there is void area between the individual strands of the cable, so to use
>that, solid, diameter would yield a result with some error.
>
>You said #4 welding so it's likely not the 7x19/25 rope lay cable, but
>either 259/27 or more likely 1666/36. The CMA of 1666/36 is 41650 from a
>stranded wire table. Cross sectional area in sq mils = CMA x .7854;
>41650 x .7854 = 32712 square mil or 0.032712 square in. So .032712/.125 =
>0.261696 width required to equal the same conductor area.
>
>Factoring in resistivity, from an old Chem-Physics handbook, 'properties
>of metals used as conductors' lists resistivity of annealed copper as 1.72
>and brass as 7. So brass has about 4.12 times more resistance. Take that
>.26 x 4.12 and you have a bit over an inch; 1.07.
>
>So, if I haven't again had a massive brain f**t, it would seem a bit more
>than an inch width of your 1/8 inch brass would equal AWG-4 copper welding
>cable; at 20C.
>
>I think I got it correct this time, but do check it out...
Bravo my friend. There is no substitute for considered
application of simple ideas which includes facts of physics
and artfully applied math. Your assumptions and deductions
based thereon are in the ballpark. I'll leave it to others
to grade your math. The point I'd like to make here is
that all such questions yield nicely to this kind
of thought process. It's also useful to consider other
details. For example, I've oft suggested that ALL battery(+)
and battery(-) jumpers be made of 4AWG welding cable irrespective
of fat wire sizes used elsewhere. This is a consideration of
the fragile nature of lead posts used on some batteries
combined with the difficulty of using only two hands to
position wire, bolt, and washer in relation to the post
while a nut is installed. More than one set of hardware
has been launched into the nether regions of structure
by a stiff battery jumper that got loose!
It's a study in trade offs. If the electrics of Ferg's jumper
are higher loss than 4AWG equivalent, how bad is the temperature
rise during a cranking event? Keep in mind that the flat strap
sheds heat faster than a round, insulated wire. How bad is
the voltage drop during a cranking event? We KNOW that the
system total loop resistance is significant. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Voltage_Drop_Study_2.pdf
Gee . . . it may well be that the thin brass strip originally
proposed might be okay in the grand scheme of things.
I mention all this only because the elegant solution
considers ALL the ingredients that go into a recipe for
success . . . of which getting the math right for deducing
equivalency is but one part.
Thanks for taking the time to walk us through this
exercise!
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ammeter reading oddly |
You probably don't really want to hear this, but Van's gauges aren't the
best quality items on the planet. I have found that the temperature and
pressure gauges are not that accurate (+/- 15%), so no reason why the
ammeter should be any better! I've always found a voltmeter very
comforting to tell the alternator is still at work.
Regards, Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neil
Clayton
Sent: 06 September 2008 22:50
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ammeter reading oddly
<harvey4@earthlink.net>
When I first start the engine, and then engage the alternator, the
Van's ammeter flips over to +20 for a few seconds.
Then it gradually descends to zero and settles a needle's width on
the -ve side of zero, where it sits for the duration.
If I turn the alternator off, the ammeter goes to -10 so I know it's
sensing something, but the slight -ve reading in flight bothers me.
Do you think it's just an adjustment issue on the gauge, or is
something else going on?
Thanks for ideas.
Neil
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens) |
FINAL REPORT!!!!!!!!
After removing the engine ground system, that I ran through the motor mount
via light jumpers, and replacing it with a fat Braded Bonding Strap (#2 AWG)
direct from the engine to the battery negative the movement of the oil
pressure needle was almost eliminated. Not enough to worry about now.
The radio turned out to be a separate problem. With the engine off, the
battery and radio on I held the PTT and wiggled wires behind the panel. I
was able to recreate the intermittent TX. It turned out to be a defective
BNC connection, faulty assembly! It only lasted 10 years.
Thanks to all who made suggestions!
I now have a fresh (clean) and improved ground system.
Tim N52TY TIME TO GO FLYING
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
<ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens)
> {#} Replies are directed back to kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com
> {#} To reply to the author, write to <bakerocb@cox.net>
>
> 8/1/2008
>
> Hello Tim, While I am pondering your situation I will pass your info on to
> the experts on the Matronics aeroelectric-list to see what they can come
up
> with.
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
> To: <kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 5:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens)
>
>
> > {#} Replies are directed back to kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com
> > {#} To reply to the author, write to "F. Tim Yoder"
> > <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
> >
> > Hi OC,
> >
> > Two things;
> >
> > First, I flew my TR-1, with a friend, to OSH on the 26th and returned
the
> > 31st. We actually flew into FLD From Mesa AZ (FFZ). Their were
noticabley
> > fewer people in the crowd but the number of planes on the ramp at OSH
and
> > FLD seemed about the same as last year. I flew from Mesa, AZ to FLD,
about
> > 1350 nm and back using 125.1 GAL. in 19.8 HRS. That works out to 6.32
GPH,
> > not bad! My TR-1 has the IO-240 B1B and I flew at 2550 RPM slightly rich
> > of
> > peak. Also, I have the Light Speed Elect. Ign. on one side.
> >
> > Second, I need some help!
> > A couple of months ago I noticed that after starting my engine the
elect.
> > oil pressure needle would jump when I turned on the Altinator switch,
> > sometimes. Now I notice it doing that every time I start up. also, I
find
> > that ocasionally when the oil temp. is hot the needle will pulse from
> > 45psi
> > to 35psi. Then yesterday, the first flight after returning from OSH, I
> > flew
> > to another local airport for cheeper fuel. My radio transmitted normally
> > leaving however, when I transmitted at the destination airport it was
> > garbled and unreadable. I noticed that the TX symbel was flashing during
> > my
> > transmissions. My reception was clear. After fueling I transmitted and
the
> > radio appeared to be okay. When I got back to my home field my
> > transmissions
> > were garbled again. When I got back to the hanger I determined the
> > following.
> > At idle RPM I could hear a little of the clicking noise during test
> > transmissions.
> > The co-pilot PTT did the same thing.
> > I also noticed that the oil pressure needle would jump when I pushed the
> > PTT.
> > I pulled all the circut breakers one at a time and was unable to
eliminate
> > the problem.
> > With the radio off the oil pressure needle jumps when I cycle the
> > altinator
> > switch.
> >
> > I hope this information might allow you to give me some suggestions on
> > what
> > might be going on.
> > Personally I think it's Voo Doo & Black Magic!
> >
> > Thanks, Tim
>
>
> {#} ----------------------------------------------------+[
kisbuilders ]+---
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
Bob,
I sent you my address to the nuckolls.bob@cox.net
email account.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3113#203113
Message 8
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| Subject: | proper cable for engine instrument |
I need to run the cables for the engine monitor. Which is the better cable to run I want to have at least 20 leads for a 6 cylinder engine with turbo and fuel flow. I'm thinking to get the G3 from http://www.insightavionics.com/g3.htm
any suggestion
Thanks for the advice
--------
Andrew P Geraghty
Corona CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3123#203123
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