Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:38 AM - Z13-8B Brown-out battery question (pgroell)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver (Brantel)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Z13-8B Brown-out battery question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 05:33 AM - Re: Re: B+C alternator problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: EV200 circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:10 AM - Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. Cotner (Jeff Page)
7. 08:37 AM - Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. Cotner (Mike)
8. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. Cotner (S. Ramirez)
9. 09:30 AM - Re: Z13-8B Brown-out battery question (Pascal GROELL)
10. 10:23 AM - Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. Cotner (Marc Zeitlin)
11. 10:57 AM - Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** (Vernon Little)
12. 11:29 AM - Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** (Vernon Little)
13. 01:02 PM - Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/TBM)
14. 01:53 PM - Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** (Vernon Little)
15. 01:57 PM - Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** (Vernon Little)
16. 06:56 PM - E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Well reasoned followup part1 (Steve Stearns)
17. 06:58 PM - E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Well reasoned followup part2 (Steve Stearns)
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Subject: | Z13-8B Brown-out battery question |
Hello,
I have a question about the Z13-8B drawing.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-8B(BrownOutBattery).pdf
I understand that the brown-out battery relay opens when pushing the engine start
button, disconnecting the brownout battery from the main battery circuit.
But I am right to think that in order to have the E-bus energized by the brown-out
battery at cranking time, the e-bus alternate feed has to be closed.
Or is the alternate feed relay closed by another mean I'm unable to figure out
reading the drawing.
Thanks for your help.
Pascal GROELL
www.notreavion.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4531#204531
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on an Elegant LED driver |
Bob,
Have not received the driver board yet. Is it lost or ???
Thanks,
Brian Chesteen
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4537#204537
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Z13-8B Brown-out battery question |
At 02:35 AM 9/16/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hello,
>I have a question about the Z13-8B drawing.
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-8B(BrownOutBattery).pdf
>
>I understand that the brown-out battery relay opens when pushing the
>engine start button, disconnecting the brownout battery from the main
>battery circuit.
>But I am right to think that in order to have the E-bus energized by the
>brown-out battery at cranking time, the e-bus alternate feed has to be closed.
>Or is the alternate feed relay closed by another mean I'm unable to figure
>out reading the drawing.
>Thanks for your help.
Your analysis is correct. To use this feature for the purpose
of preventing reset of e-bus feed systems due to starter
inrush brown-out, the e-bus alternate feed switch needs to
be closed during starting.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: re: B+C alternator problem |
At 11:51 PM 9/15/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>
>This tends to confirm my suspicion that B&C has
> probably not replaced departed technical staff that
> used to support this and other products . . .
>
> <snip>
>
> If push comes to shove, you can mail me your regulator
> and I'll modify it here. I think I recall all the things
> we did to them . . . but it's been 7-10 years ago.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Bob -
>One more data point - before I replaced the blade fuse with a 5 amp C/B, I
>inserted a 20 amp fuse (the biggest I had handy) and flew it. Used the
>fuel pump and strobes a couple of times on and off but it did not
>blow. Then, 20 minutes later without any change in load it blew. Landed,
>installed another 20 amp blade fuse and flew again. No electrical loads
>this time until I turned the nav lights on and it was fine. 20 minutes
>into the flight it blew again. I'm taking the airplane apart again to
>install the 5 amp C/B. ???? How come this seems to be related to
>time? I live in the desert and it was 105 F during these flights. JBB
The best hypothesis of the moment suggests that
were seeing the effects of time in service for
downward drift of trip setting of OV protection,
upward drift in total system noise or both. It's
equally plausible that the conditions that combine
to finally push the OV sensor over the edge are
a statistical aggregate of all conditions where
they stack up at the edge of the bell curve . . .
the conditions that combine to trip the sensor
are not frequent but they are random.
This is the reason that design goals for OV sense
systems use timing values that are substantially
above the worst case noise expected in the airplane.
The operative term here is 'expected' . . . where
we discovered after years of production with one
configuration, a particular airplane produced an
unexpected combination of stimulus that tripped the
OV protection.
Folks mistakenly believe that the size of the upstream
protection sets the sensitivity of the OV protection.
Not so. Increasing the fuse size does not make the
system less likely to trip. This is why we recommend
that the 5A cb be in included in aircraft that are
otherwise protected by fuses. This nuisance tripping
phenomenon is not 100.0% predictable.
Send me your LR3 and I'll see what I can do to
tweak it's setpoint and timing such that it
fixes your problem.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: EV200 circuit |
>Still waiting on my contactor sample.
What size copper strip are you needing. I found
my stash of copper sheet.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. |
Cotner
Any possibility that grounding the P-Lead would have no effect if the
microcontroller was way too busy handling strangely timed interrupts
due to the timing sensor bouncing around ? That would depend on
whether the P-Lead is a standard input read by the microcontroller, or
goes directly to some circuitry that shuts off the spark outputs.
Anyone know how the circuirty is designed ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> As for shutting down the PMags in flight (it seems that Mark Z had a PMag,
> not an Emag), you can't shut it down by just turning the power off because
> it will continue generating its own power (above 900 RPM). It does however
> have a Plead as regular mags have, which will shut it down by grounding. But
> the Plead has to be connected just as on regular mags. Question, did Marc Z
> connect his Pleads in such a way that he could shut the PMags down ?
Message 7
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Subject: | E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. |
Cotner
Tim,
You bring up the most important issue of unstable timing. If you time
advances at high power it reduces you detonation margin. Their are some
important issues here, one you may not recognize detonation, two you
may/will damage internal components of your engine, and three permanent
damage and/or engine can occur.
I have personally rescued a pilot who landed out on a highway in the
high country of Arizona. He was very lucky that he found a place to
land and no cars were on the road at the time. This could have been a
life altering experience. The recap of the failure mode was attributed
to heat on the emag/pmags. I'm not sure if that was a correct
assessment.
I have been running the Lightspeed Plasma III in a dual configuration
for over 300 hours. I have had one hard failure with one ignition unite
at about 60 hours. Since that repair and upgrade (cooling ports for the
hot AZ summers) both unites have worked perfectly.
I can assure you that if I ever have a problem with maintaining proper
timing that I WILL BECOME A MAGNETO CUSTOMER. Maintaining proper timing
is the difference between being a glider and an airplane. An extreme
example of improper timing is shown by watching a Top Fuel dragster or
funny car go off time. Off timing makes for the BIGGEST explosions in
these cars. Check out You Tube.
Mike Larkin
31 years flying
30 wrenching
8 years professional wrenching
15 years avionics
5 years professional avionics
21 years professional flying
24 years homebuilding
I'm an airplane guy and safety is no. 1
NO COMPROMISING
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Andres
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg
from Mr. Cotner
<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
FWIW, a misfiring PMAG/EMAG or plain vanilla mag can break a ring in a
second, and hole a piston in little more time than it takes to read
this.
Can you turn it off that quick? Whether it was wired correctly or not is
not
the real issue. If it losses time (and it's been well documented that
they
do) it can do major damage very quickly.
Tim Andres
9/5/2008 6:57 AM
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from |
Mr. Cotner
Jeff, although a good point to bring up, I highly doubt that such an
important function would go to the microprocessor, except as a status input.
Surely it would go to a hard wired shut off circuit outside the micro to
guarantee outside control without software being involved. If it didn't, it
would be a major design error. However, all of these details are most
likely proprietary data, and only Emagair would know.
Simon
Do Not Archive
Copyright C 2008
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg
from Mr. Cotner
Any possibility that grounding the P-Lead would have no effect if the
microcontroller was way too busy handling strangely timed interrupts
due to the timing sensor bouncing around ? That would depend on
whether the P-Lead is a standard input read by the microcontroller, or
goes directly to some circuitry that shuts off the spark outputs.
Anyone know how the circuirty is designed ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
> As for shutting down the PMags in flight (it seems that Mark Z had a PMag,
> not an Emag), you can't shut it down by just turning the power off because
> it will continue generating its own power (above 900 RPM). It does however
> have a Plead as regular mags have, which will shut it down by grounding.
But
> the Plead has to be connected just as on regular mags. Question, did Marc
Z
> connect his Pleads in such a way that he could shut the PMags down ?
Message 9
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Subject: | Z13-8B Brown-out battery question |
Hello,
Thanks for the answer
Best regards
Pascal
Do not archive
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Envoy: mardi 16 septembre 2008 14:21
> : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Objet: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z13-8B Brown-out battery question
>
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 02:35 AM 9/16/2008 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >Hello,
> >I have a question about the Z13-8B drawing.
> >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-
> 8B(BrownOutBattery).pdf
> >
> >I understand that the brown-out battery relay opens when pushing the
> >engine start button, disconnecting the brownout battery from the main
> >battery circuit.
> >But I am right to think that in order to have the E-bus energized by
> the
> >brown-out battery at cranking time, the e-bus alternate feed has to be
> closed.
> >Or is the alternate feed relay closed by another mean I'm unable to
> figure
> >out reading the drawing.
> >Thanks for your help.
>
> Your analysis is correct. To use this feature for the purpose
> of preventing reset of e-bus feed systems due to starter
> inrush brown-out, the e-bus alternate feed switch needs to
> be closed during starting.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Referenced msg from Mr. |
Cotner
I joined the matronics lists to be able to respond to a few of the comments posted
here, but don't expect to be a regular.
At any rate:
dalamphere(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Either the "P" Lead circuit from his ignition switch was broken, the ignition
switch malfunctioning or miswired, or did not switch to running ignition.
The Emagair products I had on my engine (one Pmag and one Emag) were both wired
with "P" leads, just as the manual explains, and both ignitions were tested with
"mag checks" before every flight, including the one in question. In fact,
you CAN turn off a Pmag, even with the RPM's above the cutoff of the generator
kick-in, with a "P-lead" grounding event, and it had always worked before.
The switch worked correctly for 6.5 years prior to and all tests after the failure
event, indicating that the switch and wiring were/are working fine. While
in the air, I attempted to run off of one EI, then the other EI, then Both EI's,
and saw minor differences in operation in the three cases. After landing and
UNPLUGGING the power from the failed EI, the engine ran perfectly on the single
remaining EI.
dalamphere(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I do not believe that the ignition not shutting off is related to the timing
magnet loosening.
I don't know what the firmware in the EI assumes, or how it works, and I don't
know what the hardware is doing either. All I can tell you is that when the EI
failed due to the magnet slippage and the HUGE change in timing, in this one
case the EI would NOT shut itself off via "P-lead" grounding. In all other cases
of Emagair product failures that I've had (and it's been a substantial number),
they've always shut themselves off when grounded, but in this case, it
did not.
Believe what you will - I'm certainly more than familiar with believing what I
WANT to believe, no matter what the facts of the matter are - just review my usage
history with the Emagair products to see that. But the facts are what the
facts are.
--------
Marc J. Zeitlin
marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
http://www.mdzeitlin.com/Marc/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4621#204621
Message 11
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Subject: | Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** |
Here's some breaking news for those following the burnt-switch thread:
I am receipt of a photo from another builder that shows three switches with
burnt fast-on tabs! He's identified that two of the switches are the
Wig-Wag switch and the Strobe switch. Not sure what the third one is for.
I am getting more information and will post it here, including the
indentification of the switches and the brands.
Compare this new photo:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/PH_Switches.JPG
With the photo from my aircraft:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0935_2.JPG
My investigation shows no burned terminals on my Wig-Wag, Landing or Taxi
switches, although they did get warm. I do have inrush current limiters on
the lighting circuits. My Strobe switch (photo) was toasted, literally, as
shown in the second photo.
What are the commonalities here? Both are from RV-9As but that's
irrelevant. Both aircraft have problems with both the Strobe and Wig-Wag
switches (and potentially Landing and Taxi circuits as well). Have yet to
identify the switch manufacturers, but evidence is leaning towards
brand-independence.
Stay tuned.
Vern
Message 12
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Subject: | Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** |
One correction, there are only 2 switches affected in the photo, the third
has a black tie-wrap on it! The two circuits that show distress (left to
right) are the Wig-Wag and Strobe switches.
I have confirmed that the Strobe switch is made by Carling, but the Wig-Wag
brand has not been confirmed.
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon
Little
Sent: September 16, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking
News**
Here's some breaking news for those following the burnt-switch thread:
I am receipt of a photo from another builder that shows three switches with
burnt fast-on tabs! He's identified that two of the switches are the
Wig-Wag switch and the Strobe switch. Not sure what the third one is for.
I am getting more information and will post it here, including the
indentification of the switches and the brands.
Compare this new photo:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/PH_Switches.JPG
With the photo from my aircraft:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0935_2.JPG
My investigation shows no burned terminals on my Wig-Wag, Landing or Taxi
switches, although they did get warm. I do have inrush current limiters on
the lighting circuits. My Strobe switch (photo) was toasted, literally, as
shown in the second photo.
What are the commonalities here? Both are from RV-9As but that's
irrelevant. Both aircraft have problems with both the Strobe and Wig-Wag
switches (and potentially Landing and Taxi circuits as well). Have yet to
identify the switch manufacturers, but evidence is leaning towards
brand-independence.
Stay tuned.
Vern
Message 13
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Subject: | Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** |
Vern -
I'm betting on sub-standard crimps in high-current circuits. As in not
enough wire in the tube to make a proper crimp. For the sake of
argument, let's call that a "light" crimp. A light crimp may withstand
a tug-test, but then begin to loosen up under the vibration and heat
cycles of normal operation. Heat cycles then accelerate deterioration
of the joint.
Neal
Message 14
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Subject: | Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** |
I've got some crimps into Bob for F/A, so we can test your theory. It's a
bit worrisome, however, that (at least) three persons have had similar
failures on their strobe switches, and two on their lamp switches.
The other photo I provided is from a builder 3000 miles away, using the same
fast-ons and presumably the same crimper.
Vern
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 605 TES/TBM
> Sent: September 16, 2008 1:01 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On
> Tabs **Breaking News**
>
>
>
> USAF ACC
> --> 605 TES/TBM" <Neal.George@Hurlburt.AF.MIL>
>
> Vern -
>
> I'm betting on sub-standard crimps in high-current circuits.
> As in not enough wire in the tube to make a proper crimp.
> For the sake of argument, let's call that a "light" crimp. A
> light crimp may withstand a tug-test, but then begin to
> loosen up under the vibration and heat cycles of normal
> operation. Heat cycles then accelerate deterioration of the joint.
>
> Neal
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** |
More information from the new photo (friend's airplane). The Wig-Wag
switch
that is failing is from: <http://www.apem.com/pdf/600H-600NH.pdf>
http://www.apem.com/pdf/600H-600NH.pdf. It is a 644H.
The wig-wag circuit is flashing an MR16 50W lamp. The HID landing light
switch looks fine. Strobe is a Carling switch.
More data.... maybe not more information, yet!
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vernon
Little
Sent: September 16, 2008 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
**Breaking
News**
One correction, there are only 2 switches affected in the photo, the
third
has a black tie-wrap on it! The two circuits that show distress (left
to
right) are the Wig-Wag and Strobe switches.
I have confirmed that the Strobe switch is made by Carling, but the
Wig-Wag
brand has not been confirmed.
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vernon
Little
Sent: September 16, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking
News**
Here's some breaking news for those following the burnt-switch thread:
I am receipt of a photo from another builder that shows three switches
with
burnt fast-on tabs! He's identified that two of the switches are the
Wig-Wag switch and the Strobe switch. Not sure what the third one is
for.
I am getting more information and will post it here, including the
indentification of the switches and the brands.
Compare this new photo:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/PH_Switches.JPG
With the photo from my aircraft:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0935_2.JPG
My investigation shows no burned terminals on my Wig-Wag, Landing or
Taxi
switches, although they did get warm. I do have inrush current limiters
on
the lighting circuits. My Strobe switch (photo) was toasted, literally,
as
shown in the second photo.
What are the commonalities here? Both are from RV-9As but that's
irrelevant. Both aircraft have problems with both the Strobe and
Wig-Wag
switches (and potentially Landing and Taxi circuits as well). Have yet
to
identify the switch manufacturers, but evidence is leaning towards
brand-independence.
Stay tuned.
Vern
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 16
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Subject: | E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Well reasoned followup part1 |
Although there have been (as one would expect) a variety of replies to
Marc Z's posting on canard-aviators, they were not (my opinion)
informative to the same degree that would prompt me to cross-post.
However, a posting today by Nick U. (another source that over the time I
have been on canard-aviators has struck me as particularly credible) did
seem so worthy. I do not anticipate any need to keep people abreast of
any more messages on Canard-aviators beyond the posting from Nick U.
For those with a particular interest in following the discussion as it
continues to develop on this subject please follow it directly at the
source: canard-aviators on groups.yahoo.com.
Steve Stearns
Boulder/Longmont, Colorado
CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less)
Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs)
Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D
****************** From canard-aviators ********************
10.
Emag/Pmag Discussion Part 1
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canard-aviators/message/46253;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNWFuMzdvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NTY0ODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MzQwMDg1BG1zZ0lkAzQ2MjUzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMjE2MDUwNjM->
Posted by: "U-Nick" unick3@gmail.com
<mailto:unick3@gmail.com?Subject=%20Re%3AEmag%2FPmag%20Discussion%20Part%201>
unick3 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/unick3>
Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:02 pm (PDT)
Hi all,
I wanted to provided an alternate viewpoint to the group discussion
concerning Emagair based on my personal experience.
In our canard community, I am positive I have the most years/flying
hours in front a Pmag and have had many discussions with the owners of
Emagair over the years. I can assure all of you, the owners of the
company are absolutely committed to the success of Emagair, they
listen to each purchasers input, are very open with information, spare
no expense to make their electronic ignition the best product possible
and try to do right by their customers.
I have had a three failures over the years with my Pmag. All the
failures were related to the series 112 optical sensor installation
which was admittedly early in the development of the product line. In
my particular case, I was comfortable early on with the risk I was
taking using an unproven product. I just happen to hate mags and
wanted something different.
Over the years, my confidence with Emagair has grown and I have been
lying with a 113 series for about 260 hrs with no problems (2.5
years). My success may be an isolated case in this community, but
with over a thousand units out there, Emagair would not still be in
business if there was major systemic problems, a high failure rate or
they were totally unsafe to fly as some might indicate.
This being said, I too share the concern others are expressing with
the experience Marc had with his installation. After reading the
latest series of emails, I decided to call Emagair to talk with the
owner to find out the current news on the magnet cup issue.
The reason for my involvement is solely because I am using their
product and inadvertently happened to be at Oshkosh this year when
Marc brought his failed 114 series Pmag to the Emagair booth and
listened to the discussion.
After seeing Marc's Emag and listening to his very valid and well
reasoned points concerning mass, inertia, mounting system, thermal
expansion, adhesive bonding issues, etc, I too could see there was a
problem with the how the magnet was mounted on the shaft.
Although Emagair had only seen one other case at that time of a
loosened magnet assembly they felt this problem needed to be
positively resolved.
Resolution (part 2)
Nick Ugolini
Charleston, SC
LongEZ-N29TM (2390 hrs), Cozy IV-N199V (restoring), Cozy 540RG
(planning stage)
Website: http://www.canardzone.com/members/nickugolini/
<http://www.canardzone.com/members/nickugolini/>
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Subject: | E-Mag P-Mag Safety info - Well reasoned followup part2 |
The second part of Nick U's following message - Steve.
*************** from canard-aviators *******************
11.
Emag/Pmag Discussion Part 2
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canard-aviators/message/46254;_ylc=X3oDMTJydmg1YzNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NTY0ODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MzQwMDg1BG1zZ0lkAzQ2MjU0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyMjE2MDUwNjM->
Posted by: "U-Nick" unick3@gmail.com
<mailto:unick3@gmail.com?Subject=%20Re%3AEmag%2FPmag%20Discussion%20Part%202>
unick3 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/unick3>
Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:02 pm (PDT)
The Resolution:
Immediately after returning from OSH, a in-house review of the
assembly was initiated and a new magnet cup was designed by Emagair to
address the concerns of how the magnet assembly is mounted.
1. The mass was significantly reduced from 9.4g to 3.7g.
2. The shaft now have keyway to lock the cup and shaft together.
3. Roll pins have been inserted through the cup and shaft to lock
them in place.
4. No adhesive is being used (they are press fit into place)
Additionally, a mechanical engineer who is deeply involved with the
aviation field, with years of experience working with aviation engines
was hired to do a top to bottom review of the mechanics of the
ignition system including the magnetic cup assembly.
The "fix" (keyway/rollpin) may be overkill (not I am not an expert in
this area), but to me it is much more sensible and robust than the
previous mounting system. In talking with Emagair the design might
change again IF the engineer they hired determines this new mounting
method is way too robust and can be further modified for ease of
manufacturing and future reliability. The company has issued a
service recall on their Pmag/Emag's to replace the magnet assembly.
They will tear down the units, inspect them, replace bearings, seals,
update electronics, etc free of charge. You only have to pay shipping
one way (to them).
If you wish to see the old and new cup assemblies, they have posted
pictures on thier website under "Service Notes". On a side note,
the electronics of the both the Pmag/Emag systems has been very
reliable and they have seen very few issues in this area.
For my part, I will not ground my plane and will continue to
comfortably fly my Pmag with complete confidence. I still think it is
a great product and it works very well in my installation.
Before anyone has a bone to pick with me for my posts, I want to
assure every I am not an advocate or have any involvement with this
company. I am just a user of their product and want to provided a
fuller picture of this issue based on my discussions with the company
and my overall positive experience. That is what this group is all
about isn't it? Sharing of information information.
Nick Ugolini
Charleston, SC
LongEZ-N29TM (2390 hrs), Cozy IV-N199V (restoring), Cozy 540RG
(planning stage)
Website: http://www.canardzone.com/members/nickugolini/
<http://www.canardzone.com/members/nickugolini/>
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