Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:45 AM - (Fergus Kyle)
2. 08:23 AM - Re:B+C alternator problem (rocket2man)
3. 09:12 AM - Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens) (F. Tim Yoder)
4. 08:50 PM - Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** (Vernon Little)
Message 1
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"
Time: 06:47:46 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EV200 circuit
>Still waiting on my contactor sample.
What size copper strip are you needing. I found my stash of copper sheet.
Bob . . ."
You're very kind.... The bar is not much longer than 4 inches, so I
figured
I could use the brass after all. I have 1/8" bar and am fashioning several
busses
In case the brass won't do the job I plan to duplicate in copper in good
time
. This Europa doesn't provide much room behind the instruments, so some of
it
will go six feet aft, including a second battery with a 1/2inch copper pipe
as conduit
and auxiliary ground. Your 2battery/2alternator circuit refers.
Roll on the contractor sample! I will have to choose twixt that
and EV200s
soon.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 2
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Subject: | re:B+C alternator problem |
Bob,
Thank you for your offer to take a look at my LR-3B. But before I
disconnect and send it to you I was <again> poking around last night and
noticed the "overvoltage" test switch. I see it on the wiring diagram
but what is it or when is it used in a test mode? The reason I ask is
the switch appeared to be intermittent (didn't have a good "on-off"
feel) and I figure to eliminate it from the list of possible faults I
could cut it out of the system or replace it with a new one. Comments? JBB
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens) |
Final Final Report,
I went flying Sat. and found the same radio transmit problem. I did notice
better reception after repairing the bad coax B&C connector.
Back at the hanger, I started the wire wiggling again and ultimately found a
failed solder joint at a auxiliary mike jack tab. The shrink sleeve was
holding it in place so that ground operations were usually ok but contact
was intermittent in flight.
Will try again this weekend.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Cc: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens)
> {#} Replies are directed back to kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com
> {#} To reply to the author, write to "F. Tim Yoder"
<ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
>
> FINAL REPORT!!!!!!!!
>
> After removing the engine ground system, that I ran through the motor
mount
> via light jumpers, and replacing it with a fat Braded Bonding Strap (#2
AWG)
> direct from the engine to the battery negative the movement of the oil
> pressure needle was almost eliminated. Not enough to worry about now.
>
> The radio turned out to be a separate problem. With the engine off, the
> battery and radio on I held the PTT and wiggled wires behind the panel. I
> was able to recreate the intermittent TX. It turned out to be a defective
> BNC connection, faulty assembly! It only lasted 10 years.
>
> Thanks to all who made suggestions!
>
> I now have a fresh (clean) and improved ground system.
>
> Tim N52TY TIME TO GO FLYING
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>; <kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com>;
> <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens)
>
>
> > {#} Replies are directed back to kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com
> > {#} To reply to the author, write to <bakerocb@cox.net>
> >
> > 8/1/2008
> >
> > Hello Tim, While I am pondering your situation I will pass your info on
to
> > the experts on the Matronics aeroelectric-list to see what they can
come
> up
> > with.
> >
> > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> > understand knowledge."
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
> > To: <kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 5:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Igntion Switches------ (Electrical Grimlens)
> >
> >
> > > {#} Replies are directed back to kisbuilders@angus.mystery.com
> > > {#} To reply to the author, write to "F. Tim Yoder"
> > > <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
> > >
> > > Hi OC,
> > >
> > > Two things;
> > >
> > > First, I flew my TR-1, with a friend, to OSH on the 26th and returned
> the
> > > 31st. We actually flew into FLD From Mesa AZ (FFZ). Their were
> noticabley
> > > fewer people in the crowd but the number of planes on the ramp at OSH
> and
> > > FLD seemed about the same as last year. I flew from Mesa, AZ to FLD,
> about
> > > 1350 nm and back using 125.1 GAL. in 19.8 HRS. That works out to 6.32
> GPH,
> > > not bad! My TR-1 has the IO-240 B1B and I flew at 2550 RPM slightly
rich
> > > of
> > > peak. Also, I have the Light Speed Elect. Ign. on one side.
> > >
> > > Second, I need some help!
> > > A couple of months ago I noticed that after starting my engine the
> elect.
> > > oil pressure needle would jump when I turned on the Altinator switch,
> > > sometimes. Now I notice it doing that every time I start up. also, I
> find
> > > that ocasionally when the oil temp. is hot the needle will pulse from
> > > 45psi
> > > to 35psi. Then yesterday, the first flight after returning from OSH, I
> > > flew
> > > to another local airport for cheeper fuel. My radio transmitted
normally
> > > leaving however, when I transmitted at the destination airport it was
> > > garbled and unreadable. I noticed that the TX symbel was flashing
during
> > > my
> > > transmissions. My reception was clear. After fueling I transmitted and
> the
> > > radio appeared to be okay. When I got back to my home field my
> > > transmissions
> > > were garbled again. When I got back to the hanger I determined the
> > > following.
> > > At idle RPM I could hear a little of the clicking noise during test
> > > transmissions.
> > > The co-pilot PTT did the same thing.
> > > I also noticed that the oil pressure needle would jump when I pushed
the
> > > PTT.
> > > I pulled all the circut breakers one at a time and was unable to
> eliminate
> > > the problem.
> > > With the radio off the oil pressure needle jumps when I cycle the
> > > altinator
> > > switch.
> > >
> > > I hope this information might allow you to give me some suggestions on
> > > what
> > > might be going on.
> > > Personally I think it's Voo Doo & Black Magic!
> > >
> > > Thanks, Tim
> >
> >
> > {#} ----------------------------------------------------+[
> kisbuilders ]+---
> >
> >
>
>
> {#} ----------------------------------------------------+[
kisbuilders ]+---
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking News** |
OK, here's where I'm heading: Strobe switches are failing. We now have
5
confirmed failures (I've had 2, Bob Nuckolls has done a failure analysis
on
another, plus three more that I have been advised about recently). In
addition, we've had wig-wag and landing/taxi switch failures reported.
The most recent information I have from the new case documented in the
previous message is that yes, indeed, the switch rivets are loose. It
looks
like a common contributing factor.
Since my replacement switches work fine, but only have a couple of hours
of
flight time on them, it's tough to tell if we have a problem with
certain
manufacturers' switches, or an application problem. At this point, I'm
betting that we have an application problem due to the high inrush
currents
that landing/taxi lamps and strobe supplies exhibit.
Bob, based on my personal experience and the evidence provided by
others, I
think it would be a good idea to use high-inrush automotive relays for
these
circuits, controlled by low-cost switches. Since landing and taxi
lights
are often wig-wagged, it would be possible to replace the wig-wag
flasher
with a configuration that only uses relays to handle the high currents
in
all three modes (wig-wag, taxi, landing). The Strobe circuit would be a
simple SPST relay.
I know you haven't received my bag-o-bits with the failed switch
components
and crimps yet so I may be jumping the gun. Nevertheless, there are
enough
burning switches and terminals out there where we have a potential
safety
problem that needs to be addressed. Relays may be a band-aid to cover
up
cheap switch design, but they are designed for this purpose and are very
reliable.
Thanks,
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vernon
Little
Sent: September 16, 2008 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
**Breaking
News**
More information from the new photo (friend's airplane). The Wig-Wag
switch
that is failing is from: <http://www.apem.com/pdf/600H-600NH.pdf>
http://www.apem.com/pdf/600H-600NH.pdf. It is a 644H.
The wig-wag circuit is flashing an MR16 50W lamp. The HID landing light
switch looks fine. Strobe is a Carling switch.
More data.... maybe not more information, yet!
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vernon
Little
Sent: September 16, 2008 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
**Breaking
News**
One correction, there are only 2 switches affected in the photo, the
third
has a black tie-wrap on it! The two circuits that show distress (left
to
right) are the Wig-Wag and Strobe switches.
I have confirmed that the Strobe switch is made by Carling, but the
Wig-Wag
brand has not been confirmed.
Vern
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Vernon
Little
Sent: September 16, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs **Breaking
News**
Here's some breaking news for those following the burnt-switch thread:
I am receipt of a photo from another builder that shows three switches
with
burnt fast-on tabs! He's identified that two of the switches are the
Wig-Wag switch and the Strobe switch. Not sure what the third one is
for.
I am getting more information and will post it here, including the
indentification of the switches and the brands.
Compare this new photo:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/PH_Switches.JPG
With the photo from my aircraft:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0935_2.JPG
My investigation shows no burned terminals on my Wig-Wag, Landing or
Taxi
switches, although they did get warm. I do have inrush current limiters
on
the lighting circuits. My Strobe switch (photo) was toasted, literally,
as
shown in the second photo.
What are the commonalities here? Both are from RV-9As but that's
irrelevant. Both aircraft have problems with both the Strobe and
Wig-Wag
switches (and potentially Landing and Taxi circuits as well). Have yet
to
identify the switch manufacturers, but evidence is leaning towards
brand-independence.
Stay tuned.
Vern
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