Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: current draw (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:41 AM - Re: Source for welding cable? (Ron Raby)
3. 06:54 AM - Re: Z13/8 Aux Alternator Fuselink (Jeff Page)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: Source for welding cable? (Christopher Stone)
5. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 Aux Alternator Fuselink (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs (Vernon Little)
7. 11:06 AM - Re: Source for welding cable? (Ron Raby)
8. 12:56 PM - Re: Source for welding cable? (rampil)
9. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs (B Tomm)
10. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs (Vernon Little)
11. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs (Dale Rogers)
12. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs (Vernon Little)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: current draw |
At 05:45 PM 9/23/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone tell me the expected current draw on a facet solid state fuel
>pump? ( 12v - 2.5/4.5 psi ) Also on rac servos. Thanks Bill S.
The Ray Allen servos draw about 500 mA fully loaded.
Most folks systems use 100 mA or so.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Source for welding cable? |
I have a surplus roll of # 2 welding cable aprox 120 feet left. Back in
2000 I paid 90 cents per foot. I also have the lugs 2.50 ea and the
right crimper to put them on. I will make the cable with the lugs
installed for the cost of the material. I also can put on a piece of red
heat shrink if you want.
Regards
Ron Raby
www.advanceddesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John McMahon
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Source for welding cable?
Hi Sam, I got mine from Wiremasters. Sedveral of us have used them,
Deb was very helpful and the price for all their wire was the best I
found.
Deb Sullivan
Account Executive
WireMasters, Inc.
Phone: 800-635-5342
Fax: 615-791-6182
Email: dsullivan@ wiremasters.net
Web site: http://www.wiremasters.net/
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Aux Alternator Fuselink |
> I believe the major idea here is that it's probably not worth your
> productive $time$ to worry about it much. If you're wanting
> to acquire a more academic understanding, then the task before
> you is significant. You can start with AC43-13 and I can offer
> some other references. I made my recommendations knowing that
> the combination suggested was well inside the edges of the
> voltage-drop/temperature-rise envelope.
I guess I am looking for some basic approaches so i can choose the
size of a fuselink. The wire charts easily allow me to select a wire
size for currents based on voltage drop and temperature rise. Is
there a chart for fuselinks ? AC43-13 doesn't seem to even mention
the word. The AeroElectric Connection says to use 4 agw smaller for
fuselinks, but this discourse indicates that is incorrect.
Continuing on in the theme, what about protection for the wire that
activates the battery contactor ? The diode will fail open, but what
about a short internal to the contactor due to, say, mechanical
failure ? There would be an unfused 4awg wire feeding huge currents
through the switched wire to ground. Although an unlikely
possiblilty, it would be ugly if it happened. What about a fuselink
on it ? What size ?
Thanks,
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Source for welding cable? |
Sam...
Check Waytek
http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0F99F83E3041F200097A061+M37+ENG
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 23, 2008 1:09 PM
>To: Aerolectric List <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for welding cable?
>
>I'm looking for a place to get some good 4AWG welding cable. (Small amounts-
>of course). I see McMaster-Carr has some, but I would prefer to get both
>black and red. Does anyone have any sources? I see some on Ebay also.
>
>Sam Hoskins
>Murphysboro, IL
>www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z13/8 Aux Alternator Fuselink |
At 09:51 AM 9/24/2008 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> I believe the major idea here is that it's probably not worth your
>> productive $time$ to worry about it much. If you're wanting
>> to acquire a more academic understanding, then the task before
>> you is significant. You can start with AC43-13 and I can offer
>> some other references. I made my recommendations knowing that
>> the combination suggested was well inside the edges of the
>> voltage-drop/temperature-rise envelope.
>
>I guess I am looking for some basic approaches so i can choose the
>size of a fuselink. The wire charts easily allow me to select a wire
>size for currents based on voltage drop and temperature rise. Is
>there a chart for fuselinks ? AC43-13 doesn't seem to even mention
>the word. The AeroElectric Connection says to use 4 agw smaller for
>fuselinks, but this discourse indicates that is incorrect.
And it shouldn't. You need to review the writings I've
posted on fusible links. I've cautioned that they are not
replacements for fuses or circuit breakers. They are
circuit protection with timing constants on the same order
as the ANL current limiters and similar devices used in
the automotive world. I do not recommend their use in any
locations and/or sizes not illustrated in the Z-figures.
You seldom see them incorporated into the Z-figures and there's
a reason for that . . .
>Continuing on in the theme, what about protection for the wire that
>activates the battery contactor ? The diode will fail open, but what
>about a short internal to the contactor due to, say, mechanical
>failure ? There would be an unfused 4awg wire feeding huge currents
>through the switched wire to ground. Although an unlikely
>possiblilty, it would be ugly if it happened. What about a fuselink
>on it ? What size ?
The Z-figures are direct descendants of system architectures
that go back 70 years or more. They've been crafted to
illustrate architecture and protection philosophies that
have been filtered through the production history of hundreds
of thousands of airplanes. The fact that no "protection" is
shown on any given wire is not accidental. I've never seen
or heard of a coil suppression device failing in service. They
are VERY lightly stressed as-installed. I.e., not worthy of
additional concern for protection against failure.
Adding circuit protection where none is shown/needed/recommended
only increases parts count and drives system reliability down.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs |
Update on my findings.
One question that I had was if vibration could be working the rivets loose
on the Carling switches. Given that I believe the rivets to be suspect to
begin with-- even new switches have loose rivets-- vibration may be a
trigger for a cascade of overheating problems.
I took a photo of my switches from under the panel, seen here:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0988_1.JPG.
This photo shows the black sheathed wiring bundled which brings the airframe
circuits to the panel, and the 2-3 inch pigtails to the switches.
Based on my inspection, there may be a vibration coupling into the pigtails
from the main bundle. Even though the bundle is secured every 8 inches or
so, I was able to move it by hand in the vertical (pitch) dimension.
Given the uncertainties here, I will not add more tie-downs to this bundle
yet. I want to see if the switch replacement has done the trick. This may
take a year or so to complete the experiment. If it solves the problem, we
will know that the superior construction of the switches is a fix. If it
does not, I will add tie downs to the bundle and re-run the experiment.
The problem with doing both right now, is that we'll never know what the
root cause was. I'm willing to sacrifice a few switches in the greater
search for knowledge. At least this area is easy to get at!
Vern
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Source for welding cable? |
I also have some extraflex 4awg tin coated fine stranded copper wire.
The marking on the wire say's awm I A/B 105C FT1 LL59358. not sure what
that means. seems better than welding cable. I paid 1.88 a foot. I have
both black and green. I will sell it for a buck a foot.
Regards
Ron Raby
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Raby
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Source for welding cable?
I have a surplus roll of # 2 welding cable aprox 120 feet left. Back
in 2000 I paid 90 cents per foot. I also have the lugs 2.50 ea and the
right crimper to put them on. I will make the cable with the lugs
installed for the cost of the material. I also can put on a piece of red
heat shrink if you want.
Regards
Ron Raby
www.advanceddesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John McMahon
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Source for welding cable?
Hi Sam, I got mine from Wiremasters. Sedveral of us have used them,
Deb was very helpful and the price for all their wire was the best I
found.
Deb Sullivan
Account Executive
WireMasters, Inc.
Phone: 800-635-5342
Fax: 615-791-6182
Email: dsullivan@ wiremasters.net
Web site: http://www.wiremasters.net/
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Source for welding cable? |
for the few feet you probably need, it doesn't make sense to mail order it.
any local welding supply will have appropriate cable. Welding cable
by definition is fine stranded 100% copper. Buy a touch long since
despite the fine stranding, it still has a significant bend radius
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5988#205988
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs |
Vern,
I agree with the experiment. Be sure to add a couple switches and tools to
the A/C repair kit. Probably a good thing to have on all our airplanes
especially when away from home base.
Bevan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon
Little
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
--> <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
Update on my findings.
One question that I had was if vibration could be working the rivets loose
on the Carling switches. Given that I believe the rivets to be suspect to
begin with-- even new switches have loose rivets-- vibration may be a
trigger for a cascade of overheating problems.
I took a photo of my switches from under the panel, seen here:
http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0988_1.JPG.
This photo shows the black sheathed wiring bundled which brings the airframe
circuits to the panel, and the 2-3 inch pigtails to the switches.
Based on my inspection, there may be a vibration coupling into the pigtails
from the main bundle. Even though the bundle is secured every 8 inches or
so, I was able to move it by hand in the vertical (pitch) dimension.
Given the uncertainties here, I will not add more tie-downs to this bundle
yet. I want to see if the switch replacement has done the trick. This may
take a year or so to complete the experiment. If it solves the problem, we
will know that the superior construction of the switches is a fix. If it
does not, I will add tie downs to the bundle and re-run the experiment.
The problem with doing both right now, is that we'll never know what the
root cause was. I'm willing to sacrifice a few switches in the greater
search for knowledge. At least this area is easy to get at!
Vern
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs |
Good idea. I'll keep the list posted on any developments.
Vern
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of B Tomm
> Sent: September 24, 2008 12:57 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
>
>
>
> <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
>
> Vern,
>
> I agree with the experiment. Be sure to add a couple
> switches and tools to the A/C repair kit. Probably a good
> thing to have on all our airplanes especially when away from
> home base.
>
> Bevan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Vernon Little
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:35 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
>
> --> <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
> Update on my findings.
>
> One question that I had was if vibration could be working the
> rivets loose on the Carling switches. Given that I believe
> the rivets to be suspect to begin with-- even new switches
> have loose rivets-- vibration may be a trigger for a cascade
> of overheating problems.
>
> I took a photo of my switches from under the panel, seen
> here:
> http://www.vx-aviation.com/rv-9a/photos/Electrical/IMG_0988_1.JPG.
>
> This photo shows the black sheathed wiring bundled which
> brings the airframe circuits to the panel, and the 2-3 inch
> pigtails to the switches.
>
> Based on my inspection, there may be a vibration coupling
> into the pigtails from the main bundle. Even though the
> bundle is secured every 8 inches or so, I was able to move it
> by hand in the vertical (pitch) dimension.
>
> Given the uncertainties here, I will not add more tie-downs
> to this bundle yet. I want to see if the switch replacement
> has done the trick. This may take a year or so to complete
> the experiment. If it solves the problem, we will know that
> the superior construction of the switches is a fix. If it
> does not, I will add tie downs to the bundle and re-run the
> experiment.
>
> The problem with doing both right now, is that we'll never
> know what the root cause was. I'm willing to sacrifice a few
> switches in the greater search for knowledge. At least this
> area is easy to get at!
>
> Vern
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs |
Vernon Little wrote:
> Update on my findings.
>
> One question that I had was if vibration could be working the rivets loose
> on the Carling switches. Given that I believe the rivets to be suspect to
> begin with-- even new switches have loose rivets-- vibration may be a
> trigger for a cascade of overheating problems.
>
Vern,
If you have loose rivets on a new switch, the manufacturer
has a QA problem. A tab that is not held in intimate contact
the inner component with sufficient force to resist
movement by finger pressure has already begun to fail.
If I got switches like that from two or more production
lots, that manufacturer would be off my supplier list.
Dale R.
Mesa, AZ
COZY MkIV #0497
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs |
Yup, mine too.
Do not archive.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Dale Rogers
> Sent: September 24, 2008 6:52 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Toggle Switches with Fast-On Tabs
>
>
>
>
> Vernon Little wrote:
> > Update on my findings.
> >
> > One question that I had was if vibration could be working
> the rivets
> > loose on the Carling switches. Given that I believe the
> rivets to be
> > suspect to begin with-- even new switches have loose rivets--
> > vibration may be a trigger for a cascade of overheating problems.
> >
>
> Vern,
>
> If you have loose rivets on a new switch, the manufacturer
> has a QA problem. A tab that is not held in intimate contact
> the inner component with sufficient force to resist movement
> by finger pressure has already begun to fail.
>
> If I got switches like that from two or more production
> lots, that manufacturer would be off my supplier list.
>
> Dale R.
> Mesa, AZ
> COZY MkIV #0497
>
>
>
>
>
>
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