AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 09/30/08


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:52 AM - Re: [OT] Pronunciation question (Richard Girard)
     2. 05:41 AM - Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair (Ernest Christley)
     3. 07:19 AM - Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 09:59 AM - Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair ()
     5. 10:07 AM - Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects ()
     6. 11:37 AM - Re: A Tale of Two Batteries (Ed Holyoke)
     7. 11:59 AM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects (Mike Humphrey)
     8. 12:22 PM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects (Ed Gilroy)
     9. 01:42 PM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects ()
    10. 01:54 PM - Re: Capacitance Probes ()
    11. 02:51 PM - VDC Battery Minders (Ed Holyoke)
    12. 03:03 PM - Re: [OT] Pronunciation question (Gilles Thesee)
    13. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Capacitance Probes (James Robinson)
    14. 04:52 PM - Re: VDC Battery Minders (Ed Mueller)
    15. 04:53 PM - Re: [OT] Pronunciation question (Robert McCallum)
    16. 06:53 PM - Re: VDC Battery Minders (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 07:40 PM - Re: VDC Battery Minders (follow up) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 07:58 PM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects (Mike Humphrey)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:52:07 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Girard" <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: [OT] Pronunciation question
    Bob, Your reference to the period being used as a decimal point is a bit ethnocentric. Take a look at the manuals written for the Rotax engines. A comma is used as the decimal point.Confusing? You bet. Drove me crazy at first (just as the organization of the manuals did, too) then I realized this was a "Mounties hat" situation and my head changed to fit. :-} Rick On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:48 PM, raymondj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote: > raymondj@frontiernet.net> > > One point zero two eight would be my 1st choice. > > Common usage would also be one point oh two eight, but can lead to > confusion between the letter "o" and the number "0". > > Hope this helps, > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "Hope for the best, > but prepare for the worst." > > do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Thesee" < > Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 2:55 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: [OT] Pronunciation question > > >> Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> >> >> Hi all, >> >> No electrics this time. >> >> Some time ago the FCL 1.028 Language proficiency was implemented. >> How do you natural English speakers pronounce FCL 1.028 ? >> >> One thousand twenty eight ? >> One point.... >> etc.. >> >> Thanks, >> Best regards, >> -- >> Gilles >> http://contrails.free.fr >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > 1:30 PM > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:41:16 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair
    Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > Again, this goes to my earlier suggestion that wires > should be twisted based on manufacturer's installation > instructions . . . and the fact that one system get > twisted wires doesn't mean that all systems should get > them. > Just to be clear, twisting wires isn't 'bad', per se. It is just that it isn't necessary. Correct? If I have up to four wires following the same route (same origin and destination), I tend to twist them. It's not for any electrical purpose ... just makes the installation neater and easier to handle. I have a rack with four colors of wire in various gauges. Twisting more that four wires doesn't create a tight bundle, so I switch to using looming after that. The technique does have the drawback that if one wire goes bad or is damaged, I will have to replace two or more, but I figure there isn' t much that can damage one that won't damage all of them if they're following the same path anyway.


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:19:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Unshielded Twisted Pair
    At 08:40 AM 9/30/2008 -0400, you wrote: ><echristley@nc.rr.com> > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> Again, this goes to my earlier suggestion that wires >> should be twisted based on manufacturer's installation >> instructions . . . and the fact that one system get >> twisted wires doesn't mean that all systems should get >> them. > >Just to be clear, twisting wires isn't 'bad', per se. It is just that it >isn't necessary. Correct? Correct. It has a downside of making wire bundles more bulky. >If I have up to four wires following the same route (same origin and >destination), I tend to twist them. It's not for any electrical purpose >... just makes the installation neater and easier to handle. I have a >rack with four colors of wire in various gauges. Twisting more that four >wires doesn't create a tight bundle, so I switch to using looming after that. Nothing wrong with process-for-a-purpose. I've often used my drill motor to twist a pair or trio of 22AWG wires together for the purpose of bundling . . . just as you've suggested. We just need to be careful that our conversation is not mis-understood by bunches of other folks and they start twisting everything under a misguided notion that it automatically adds value. >The technique does have the drawback that if one wire goes bad or is >damaged, I will have to replace two or more, but I figure there isn' t >much that can damage one that won't damage all of them if they're >following the same path anyway. This is an exceedingly low risk. It's been my experience that single wires don't take mechanical hits very often. Single wires are most at-risk from poor protection due to over-current. When wires take mechanical hits, it generally involves multiple wires. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:59:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Unshielded Twisted Pair
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Hey, When I look behind my panel, all the wires are twisted :) Do Not Archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Unshielded Twisted Pair --> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> At 08:40 AM 9/30/2008 -0400, you wrote: ><echristley@nc.rr.com> > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >> Again, this goes to my earlier suggestion that wires >> should be twisted based on manufacturer's installation >> instructions . . . and the fact that one system get >> twisted wires doesn't mean that all systems should get >> them. > >Just to be clear, twisting wires isn't 'bad', per se. It is just that >it >isn't necessary. Correct? Correct. It has a downside of making wire bundles more bulky. >If I have up to four wires following the same route (same origin and >destination), I tend to twist them. It's not for any electrical purpose >... just makes the installation neater and easier to handle. I have a >rack with four colors of wire in various gauges. Twisting more that four >wires doesn't create a tight bundle, so I switch to using looming after that. Nothing wrong with process-for-a-purpose. I've often used my drill motor to twist a pair or trio of 22AWG wires together for the purpose of bundling . . . just as you've suggested. We just need to be careful that our conversation is not mis-understood by bunches of other folks and they start twisting everything under a misguided notion that it automatically adds value. >The technique does have the drawback that if one wire goes bad or is >damaged, I will have to replace two or more, but I figure there isn' t >much that can damage one that won't damage all of them if they're >following the same path anyway. This is an exceedingly low risk. It's been my experience that single wires don't take mechanical hits very often. Single wires are most at-risk from poor protection due to over-current. When wires take mechanical hits, it generally involves multiple wires. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:07:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging, securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome. I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to feed them back through when the wing is removed. Thanks, Glenn


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:37:51 AM PST US
    From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: A Tale of Two Batteries
    Follow up: I tested Battery 3 yesterday and quit at 11volts instead of 10.5 because it had already proved itself and I wanted to get it on the charger before I left the hangar. It tested to 25.4 ah at a 4 amp draw (and stopping early). I have no doubt that it would last longer than my fuel after an alternator failure. Displayed on the same graph as Battery 2, it looks better, but only slightly. By the way, I looked closer and these batteries are rated at 24 ah, not 25. I think we'll probably set 16 or 17 amp hours as the bottom limit, test at annual and run this battery for a long, long time to come. It might take a while to pay for the CBA in un-replaced batteries, but the knowledge of just how much is in there is priceless. Pax, Ed Holyoke Ed Holyoke wrote: > <bicyclop@pacbell.net> > > Howdy, > > I recently bought the West Mountain Radio CBA and did some tests on > some old batteries. Here's what I found: > > Battery 1 came with our airplane and after about 2 years we decided to > replace it. It is a Conorde RG-25XC rated at 25 ah. It was removed > from the airplane in January of 06 and charged 2 or 3 times since. It > mostly just sat. I charged it with a BatteryMINDer at 8 amps and > discharged it at 4amps to 10.5v. It tested to 12.1 ah, or about half > it's rated capacity. > > Battery 2 is the same make and model and is the battery which replaced > Bat 1 in Jan/06. This battery gave no problems in service until the > day that the positive cable chafed through and shorted against a > stainless braided brake line in flight. It resulted in a smoke filled > cabin and an emergency landing (on airport). When I arrived on the > scene an hour and a half later, I moved the brake line away from the > cable and measured 5 volts on the battery. Needless to say, the cable > has been protected from this ever happening again. The battery was > charged overnight (on an ancient non-smart charger) and returned to > service. A month or two later, it failed to start the airplane and was > changed out for another RG-25 XC. This was all about a year ago. I > don't remember if I charged this battery after removal, but it was at > 12.66 volts before I charged it for this test. I discharged it at 4 > amps to 10.5v. It, surprisingly, came in at 25.4 ah - right at rated > capacity. I'm going to swap it back into the airplane long enough to > test Battery 3 and see how that one is doing. > > I also tested a friend's 35 ah Concorde battery which is a year old > but hasn't yet seen service at 4 amps to 10.5v and got 37.4 ah out of it. > > In the meantime, my computer's UPS quit working so I pulled the 8 ah > battery out of it and found it to be 5.3v. I extended the leads out of > the UPS box and hooked them to Battery 1 and hooked my computer back > up to it. The float voltage seems high at 13.72, but I'm not worried > about it seeing as how that battery is useless for much else and if it > fails at some point, I have another to replace it. > > Hope I didn't bore Y'all too much, > > Ed Holyoke > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:59:21 AM PST US
    From: "Mike Humphrey" <mike109g6@insideconnect.net>
    Subject: Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
    Glenn, Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc. Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: <longg@pjm.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects > > > I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and > trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead > disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective > and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one > 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging, > securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome. > > I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking > two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to > feed them back through when the wing is removed. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:22:47 PM PST US
    From: "Ed Gilroy" <egilroy@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
    How about a WeatherPak connector? Available in your finer auto establishments... On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:06 PM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote: > > > I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and > trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead > disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective > and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one > 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging, > securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome. > > I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking > two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to > feed them back through when the wing is removed. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:42:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Mike, Great idea. Since my tiny trim wire is about 26 and those trailer connectors are about 14, I'm not sure how that will tie together. I see a lot of those with the pigtails already molded in. Are they available without wires? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Humphrey Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:58 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects <mike109g6@insideconnect.net> Glenn, Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc. Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: <longg@pjm.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects > > > I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights and > trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead > disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost effective > and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one > 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage unplugging, > securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome. > > I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am thinking > two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to > feed them back through when the wing is removed. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:54:42 PM PST US
    From: "" <wlively@gvtc.com>
    Subject: Re: Capacitance Probes
    Jim Could you describe your set-up more thoroughly? What type probes, converter and output volts, ect. The probes themselve work as a capacitor, two plates with one wire for each. The three wires you mentioned probably go to the converter. Which converts the capacitive reading to probably vdc (0-5 my guess) for your display. If so, you can read the output of the converter with a multimeter and see if that jives with the level reading. You can also set your multimeter to diode check and use that as a voltage source to inject a voltage (1. something if I remeber right)to your gauge and see what level it gives to test the wiring and gauge. Can compare to other side. This ONLY applies if your system is set-up as I guessed. Hard to say more without more details of the system. Wade


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:51:51 PM PST US
    From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
    Subject: VDC Battery Minders
    Howdy, Just got off the phone with the tech rep at VDC. Had a chat about the difference between the "aviation adjusted" charger and the straight 12248. He says that the aviation specific batteries, ie; Concorde and Gill, use a chemistry with a higher concentration of acid than other batteries and require a different charge profile. He said that the voltage is slightly lower and the time in the second phase of the charge cycle is longer, and the voltage in the float is lower. The de-sulfation circuit is exactly the same in all the models. They also make a model of this charger specific to the Hawker Odyssey battery which wants a higher charge voltage and specific charging profile because of the pure lead used for the plates. They also have a model for the Optima battery with it's own charging profile. He said that these are all settable inside the unit via dip switch setting, but not user accessible. I bet you'd void the warranty if you played around with it. He stated that leaving any battery hooked up to the wrong profile charger for an extended period of time, say more than 3 months, would damage it. That being said, he agreed that almost any sort of smart charger would work for the occasional recharge of a battery kept reasonably charged by it's vehicle or after a discharge capacity test. If a battery were to be left hooked up the the straight 12248 charger for a longer term float, one could mitigate the potential damage by setting to the "Gell cell" setting which floats at a lower voltage and wouldn't cook the battery off. I told him that I didn't want to have to buy 3 or 4 chargers do do all this. The key is that I fly often, nearly daily in fact. Most of the people, to whom they sell chargers, don't and want something to keep their batteries in tip-top shape even if they can't afford the avgas to keep them charged up. He agreed with me, that for my purposes and taking into account how I use a charger, that the 12248 would be the most versatile of their offerings. The chargers sense ambient temperature and so the $20 temp probe is of limited value is what we agreed. Your mileage may vary. By the way, the 12248 is on sale now at Northern Tool for $85, $15 less than their regular price and a bunch cheaper than anywhere else I could find. They, and VDC for that matter, have been out of stock, but the guy said that Northern should be getting theirs in within a week. Pax, Ed Holyoke


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:03:52 PM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: [OT] Pronunciation question
    > > One point zero two eight Hi all, Thanks to all who responded. Oh, and by the way, what about ICAO ? Eye See Ay Oh or Eye Kay-Oh, or....;-) Thanks again, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:17:37 PM PST US
    From: James Robinson <jbr79r@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Capacitance Probes
    Wade Thanks for the response.- I have Vision Micro probes (lt and rt) that fee d into a converter box (analog to digital) then into the GRT- EAU.- I s poke to Princeston Electronics (they make the converter box)- He said tha t they have had some problems with the older unit I have and they have impr oved the newer units.- He was very gracious to warrantee my units, and is sending me new converters.- The new units have some other diagnostic fun ctions that mine don't so that should be helpful.- I'll keep you posted. Jim Robinson N79R- Glll --- On Tue, 9/30/08, <wlively@gvtc.com> wrote: From: <wlively@gvtc.com> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Capacitance Probes <wlively@gvtc.com> Jim Could you describe your set-up more thoroughly? What type probes, convert er and output volts, ect. The probes themselve work as a capacitor, two plates with one wire for ea ch. The three wires you mentioned probably go to the converter. Which converts the capacitive reading to probably vdc (0-5 my guess) for your display. If so, you can read the output of the converter with a multimeter and see if that jive s with the level reading. You can also set your multimeter to diode check and use that as a voltage source to inject a voltage (1. something if I remeber rig ht)to your gauge and see what level it gives to test the wiring and gauge. Can co mpare to other side. This ONLY applies if your system is set-up as I guessed. Hard to say more without more details of the system. Wade


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:52:45 PM PST US
    From: Ed Mueller <ed@muellerartcover.com>
    Subject: Re: VDC Battery Minders
    I think I've voided more warranties then I can remember. I wonder if a nice 4 position switch would give it a lot of versatility. Ed On Sep 30, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Ed Holyoke wrote: > <bicyclop@pacbell.net> > > Howdy, > > Just got off the phone with the tech rep at VDC. Had a chat about the > difference between the "aviation adjusted" charger and the straight > 12248. He says that the aviation specific batteries, ie; Concorde and > Gill, use a chemistry with a higher concentration of acid than other > batteries and require a different charge profile. He said that the > voltage is slightly lower and the time in the second phase of the > charge cycle is longer, and the voltage in the float is lower. The > de-sulfation circuit is exactly the same in all the models. > > They also make a model of this charger specific to the Hawker Odyssey > battery which wants a higher charge voltage and specific charging > profile because of the pure lead used for the plates. They also have a > model for the Optima battery with it's own charging profile. He said > that these are all settable inside the unit via dip switch setting, > but not user accessible. I bet you'd void the warranty if you played > around with it. > > He stated that leaving any battery hooked up to the wrong profile > charger for an extended period of time, say more than 3 months, would > damage it. That being said, he agreed that almost any sort of smart > charger would work for the occasional recharge of a battery kept > reasonably charged by it's vehicle or after a discharge capacity test. > If a battery were to be left hooked up the the straight 12248 charger > for a longer term float, one could mitigate the potential damage by > setting to the "Gell cell" setting which floats at a lower voltage and > wouldn't cook the battery off. > > I told him that I didn't want to have to buy 3 or 4 chargers do do all > this. The key is that I fly often, nearly daily in fact. Most of the > people, to whom they sell chargers, don't and want something to keep > their batteries in tip-top shape even if they can't afford the avgas > to keep them charged up. He agreed with me, that for my purposes and > taking into account how I use a charger, that the 12248 would be the > most versatile of their offerings. The chargers sense ambient > temperature and so the $20 temp probe is of limited value is what we > agreed. Your mileage may vary. > > By the way, the 12248 is on sale now at Northern Tool for $85, $15 > less than their regular price and a bunch cheaper than anywhere else I > could find. They, and VDC for that matter, have been out of stock, but > the guy said that Northern should be getting theirs in within a week. > > Pax, > > Ed Holyoke > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:53:11 PM PST US
    From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Re: [OT] Pronunciation question
    Now, now Gilles. Lets not carry this too far. We could go on forever. Your command of English is excellent by the way. Far better than some whose first language is English. Bob McC. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [OT] Pronunciation question <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > > > > > One point zero two eight > > Hi all, > > Thanks to all who responded. > Oh, and by the way, what about ICAO ? > Eye See Ay Oh or Eye Kay-Oh, or....;-) > > Thanks again, > Best regards, > -- > Gilles > http://contrails.free.fr > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:53:12 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: VDC Battery Minders
    At 02:45 PM 9/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Howdy, > >Just got off the phone with the tech rep at VDC. Had a chat about the >difference between the "aviation adjusted" charger and the straight 12248. >He says that the aviation specific batteries, ie; Concorde and Gill, use a >chemistry with a higher concentration of acid than other batteries and >require a different charge profile. He said that the voltage is slightly >lower and the time in the second phase of the charge cycle is longer, and >the voltage in the float is lower. The de-sulfation circuit is exactly the >same in all the models. > >They also make a model of this charger specific to the Hawker Odyssey >battery which wants a higher charge voltage and specific charging profile >because of the pure lead used for the plates. They also have a model for >the Optima battery with it's own charging profile. He said that these are >all settable inside the unit via dip switch setting, but not user >accessible. I bet you'd void the warranty if you played around with it. > >He stated that leaving any battery hooked up to the wrong profile charger >for an extended period of time, say more than 3 months, would damage it. >That being said, he agreed that almost any sort of smart charger would >work for the occasional recharge of a battery kept reasonably charged by >it's vehicle or after a discharge capacity test. If a battery were to be >left hooked up the the straight 12248 charger for a longer term float, one >could mitigate the potential damage by setting to the "Gell cell" setting >which floats at a lower voltage and wouldn't cook the battery off. > >I told him that I didn't want to have to buy 3 or 4 chargers do do all >this. The key is that I fly often, nearly daily in fact. Most of the >people, to whom they sell chargers, don't and want something to keep their >batteries in tip-top shape even if they can't afford the avgas to keep >them charged up. He agreed with me, that for my purposes and taking into >account how I use a charger, that the 12248 would be the most versatile of >their offerings. The chargers sense ambient temperature and so the $20 >temp probe is of limited value is what we agreed. Your mileage may vary. > >By the way, the 12248 is on sale now at Northern Tool for $85, $15 less >than their regular price and a bunch cheaper than anywhere else I could >find. They, and VDC for that matter, have been out of stock, but the guy >said that Northern should be getting theirs in within a week. The only reason to put any kind of charger on an RG battery is because you ran it down accidently and you want to get it back to 80% or more capacity before you fly again. The self discharge rate on an RG battery is so low that you should be able to put your airplane away in the fall and come back next spring to crank it right up. If one insists on plugging the battery in for storage every night and the battery was put away charged, the charger won't even have a chance to do a full blown recharge, top-off-drop-to-float cycle. This slicing and dicing of float voltage from a charger is mostly smoke and mirrors. Open circuit on a SVLA battery at room temperature is right at 13.0 volts. Ideal float voltage would be right at 13.0 volts too. All you're wanting to do is externally offset the internal leakage of the battery. Now if you really screw up and float it at say 13.4 volts, the current that flows into the battery will be somewhere around 30 mA on a 17 a.h. battery. If you plan on routinely abusing the battery with the "wrong charger" then perhaps there is value in fine tuning the product. Keep in mind that your airplane's electrical system really sucks for air as a charging system. The alternator runs full-out at recharge at top-off voltage until the recharge current "breaks". Top-off voltage is maintained until engine shut down. Typical recharge current after 2 hours of flight will be on the order of 100 to 500 mA. No pampering of the battery with a "float voltage" while in flight! If I were chartered with crafting a new regulator design, it would be software driven and have some smarts that drops to a float voltage after recharge is assured . . . increase in service life? No idea. Won't launch into a $100K$ test program to prove it one way or another. I'll suggest that spending the $time$ to optimize the recharging/maintaining of batteries in airplanes is a lousy return on investment. If your battery fails to meet manufacturer's fondest wishes for a laboratory-pure service life, it's because you have it bolted to an airplane . . . not because you've charged it with the wrong charger. Batteries used for motive power (golf carts, trolling, weed eaters, etc) are another matter. These spend 99% of their time on a charger getting replenished from a deep-cycle service. You MIGHT see a couple more passes around the yard or one more trip out onto the pond by fine tuning the technology in the charger. If you have a dead battery, charge it with ANYTHING and go fly. If you're storing a battery for less than 60 days, don't beat it up with an unnecessary, less-than- ideal charger. If you're storing over the winter, take the battery home and put it on a Battery Tender out in the garage until spring. Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:40:21 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: VDC Battery Minders (follow up)
    > > > If one insists on plugging the battery in for storage > every night and the battery was put away charged, the > charger won't even have a chance to do a full blown > recharge, top-off-drop-to-float cycle. This > slicing and dicing of float voltage from a charger > is mostly smoke and mirrors. Open circuit on a SVLA > battery at room temperature is right at 13.0 volts. > Ideal float voltage would be right at 13.0 volts too. > All you're wanting to do is externally offset the > internal leakage of the battery. Now if you really > screw up and float it at say 13.4 volts, the current > that flows into the battery will be somewhere around > 30 mA on a 17 a.h. battery. Just took one of my instrumentation SVLA batteries that have been off the charger for several months. The open circuit voltage was 13.03 volts. I hooked it to a power supply set for 13.5 volts. As soon as the clips touched, the 'charge' current jumped to over 1.5 amps. Came back in 20 minutes at it was down to 0.013 amps or 13 milliamps. I raised the power supply to 13.6 volts. Again, charge current jumped up to about 400 mA. But after 20 minutes, it was again down around 0.022 amps or 22 mA. This suggests that if I "floated" this battery anywhere between 13.1 and 13.6 volts, it would be just fine. In my shop, I used to keep the instrumentation batteries all clipped in parallel on a single Battery Tender Jr. That was several years ago. Now, after using a battery to some task, I put it on the SC2500 (super-duper smart charger with a switch for "deep-cycle", "AGM" and "regular". I think the charger defaults to "regular" when plugged in. I hook it to the battery, come back in the morning and put the battery back on the shelf. All of my batteries are still above 80% of new capacity after 6 years with no special pampering to "optimize" service life. Walmart generally stocks the Schumacher SEM1562A for under $20. This is a fine low rate, charger maintainer at a very attractive price. See page 11 of http://www.schumacherproducts.com/assets/pdf/sec_catalog.pdf Bob . . .


    Message 18


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    Time: 07:58:14 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Humphrey" <mike109g6@insideconnect.net>
    Subject: Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects
    Glenn, I used it on my RAC electric trim servo in the elevator so that I could detach stab/elevator for transport. RAC wires are 26awg. Just expose an extra long piece of wire, make a 'J' shaped loop in the trailer wire, wrap the 26awg around the 14awg inside the J loop(5 or 6 wraps will do), crip down on the J loop lightly, just to snug the wires together. Solder well with high grade silver solder. When cooled cover soldered connection with a piece of heat shrink. Your done. If you want to be extra careful, place a piece of large diameter heat shrink over the wire bundle before starting any of this and then heat shrink the entire 5 wire bundle under one piece, or wrap the entire assembly in high quality electrical tape or silicon tape. Hope that this helps, Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: <longg@pjm.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects > > Mike, > Great idea. Since my tiny trim wire is about 26 and those trailer > connectors are about 14, I'm not sure how that will tie together. I see > a lot of those with the pigtails already molded in. Are they available > without wires? > > Glenn > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike > Humphrey > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:58 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects > > <mike109g6@insideconnect.net> > > Glenn, > Aeroelectric advises the use of the 5 prong waterproof trailer towing > male/female plugs which you could leave excess in wings. Available > anywhere, ie Lowe's, Home Depot, NAPA, AutoZone, etc. > Mike H 9A/8A > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <longg@pjm.com> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:06 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects > > >> >> >> I have two 5 wire bundles coming off the wings which control lights > and >> trim. My wings are detachable and I want to incorporate bulkhead >> disconnects. What approach have any of you taken which is cost > effective >> and relatively easy to plug and unplug? I do not have easy access (one >> 3" hole) outside the cockpit so I need to be able to manage > unplugging, >> securing etc from inside. Pictures welcome. >> >> I have thought about fast tabs something or 9 pin d-subs. I am > thinking >> two 9 pin d's would be bulky. They would also need a good size hole to >> feed them back through when the wing is removed. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Glenn >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >




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