---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/02/08: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects (Etienne Phillips) 2. 07:02 AM - Re: Switch question (paul wilson) 3. 08:27 AM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:29 AM - Re: Switch question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:59 AM - Re: D-Sub Connector Follow-up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 01:29 PM - Re: [OT] Pronunciation question (Gilles Thesee) 7. 02:56 PM - Re: Dimmer Control Units (Henry Trzeciakowski) 8. 04:23 PM - Re: Switch question (William Slaughter) 9. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Dimmer Control Units (Terry Watson) 10. 08:33 PM - Re: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects (RALPH HOOVER) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:50 AM PST US From: "Etienne Phillips" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects 2008/10/2 Robert L. Nuckolls, III > nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs > are connectors of choice. Hi Bob Would this be 4A per wire? I'd feel very nervous about putting that amount of current through an itty-bitty pin. Although here on the southern tip of the dark continent, we don't get the machined pins, only the useless pressed ones... If think it's fine, then I'll believe you - I've just spent big bucks on this (see attached pic) military style breakout plug, which is rated at 5A per pin. :-( Etienne ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:00 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch question Thanks Bob, I have been following the Carling thread. Now I ask what the Microswitch part to match the 2-10 Carling. Sorry I did not save the Micro link, but now I need a part number. Thanks again, Paul ====================== At 09:10 PM 10/1/2008, you wrote: > > >At 07:13 PM 10/1/2008 -0600, you wrote: >> >>Can any one give me a quick answer for the amp rating of a >>S700-2-10 switch The application is for a fuel pump that draws 8.5 >>amps steady state. >>Thanks, Paul > > It should be okay for this application. We've seen > a rash of failures for the Carling switches sold > by B&C and others . . . the ones with riveted fast-on > tabs. Be sure and install these with LOOSE coupling > between bundled wires and individual tabs . . . something > like 2" of free wire that has a pretty good bend > in it too. > > I'm pretty convinced that the failures observed had > a beginning with too much mechanical stress on these > riveted joints. Once the pressure in the joint starts > to relax, resistance goes up and it's downhill from > there. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:11 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects At 09:27 AM 10/2/2008 +0200, you wrote: >2008/10/2 Robert L. Nuckolls, III ><nuckolls.bob@cox.net> >><nuckolls.bob@cox.net> >> >>For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs >>are connectors of choice. > >Hi Bob > >Would this be 4A per wire? I'd feel very nervous about putting that amount >of current through an itty-bitty pin. See: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/HDC_Series.pdf Note contact current rating of 7.5A. In aircraft wire bundles this assumes a 20AWG wire. Of course, this drops to what ever the smaller wire is de-rated to for bundling . . . 5A in the case of 22AWG. Conservative designers will look at total connector current density and de-rate further if most or all of the pins are continuously loaded to max rated. The open barrel d-sub pins are generally rated the same electrically but they're much more process sensitive to the installation of single pins by the neophyte technician using tools like: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/bct-1.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/obc-1.jpg The machined pins are essentially mil-spec and installed with either an inexpensive ratchet-handled 4-quadrant crimp tool like . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/rct-3.jpg or the super-cool, $high$ tool like . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_1.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_2.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_3.jpg All of which produce a consistent installation of a machined pin. Although here on the southern tip of the dark continent, we don't get the machined pins, only the useless pressed ones... Steinair, and B&C both stock them. >If think it's fine, then I'll believe you - I've just spent big bucks on >this (see attached pic) military style breakout plug, which is rated at 5A >per pin. :-( Then the $time$ invested to swap horses right now is probably not a good investment. For others watching this thread, know that it is possible and practical to achieve nearly full-mil-spec connections in your small wires using the really good pins and anybody's removable-pin d-sub shells. Know too that if you need to run more than 5-7 amps though any one wire, you CAN parallel pins if you include a 12" or so total length of 22AWG wire for ballasting-resistance in series with each pin (10-20 milliohms). This mall resistance washes out pin-to-pin variables that make short-wire paralleling risky. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg I used this technique in a mil-qualified super-sonic target http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_1st_Ops_Flight.jpg power distribution controller . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_Power_Dist.jpg to switch 20+ amp battery feeders. I de-rated to 3A per pin, had 12" 22AWG wire in series with each of 7 paralleled pins to effect a high current feeder through the d-sub. It passed all the qualification tests. Bottom line is that the lowly D-Sub is an exceedingly good value if you can exploit the simple-ideas behind its design and amplications. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch question At 07:50 AM 10/2/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Thanks Bob, > I have been following the Carling thread. Now I ask what the Microswitch > part to match the 2-10 Carling. >Sorry I did not save the Micro link, but now I need a part number. >Thanks again, Paul I published that last week: ----------------------------------------------- At 06:27 PM 9/25/2008 -0500, you wrote: Hi Bob, Can you furnish a list of the Microswitch part numbers to correlate to the various switch configurations as shown in Fig 11-14, particularly the progressive transfer switches? I have some of the Carlings on hand, but am considering switching to the more robust product line before installing anything. Thanks. William Slaughter There's a Microswitch catalog for the TL series devices on my server at: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Microswitch_TL-Series.pdf There is a correlation between the dash-numbers I adopted (and B&C retained) for identifying switch functionality. An S700-1-3 is a Micoroswitch 1TL1-3 An S700-2-10 is a Microswitch 2TL1-10 etc. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: D-Sub Connector Follow-up Hi Bob Would this be 4A per wire? I'd feel very nervous about putting that amount of current through an itty-bitty pin. See: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/HDC_Series.pdf Note contact current rating of 7.5A. In aircraft wire bundles this assumes a 20AWG wire. Of course, this drops to what ever the smaller wire is de-rated to for bundling . . . 5A in the case of 22AWG. Conservative designers will look at total connector current density and de-rate further if most or all of the pins are continuously loaded to max rated. The open barrel d-sub pins are generally rated the same electrically but they're much more process sensitive to the installation of single pins by the neophyte technician using tools like: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/bct-1.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/obc-1.jpg The machined pins are essentially mil-spec and installed with either an inexpensive ratchet-handled 4-quadrant crimp tool like . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/rct-3.jpg or the super-cool, $high$ tool like . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_1.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_2.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Daniels_4-Quad_3.jpg All of which produce a consistent installation of a machined pin. Although here on the southern tip of the dark continent, we don't get the machined pins, only the useless pressed ones... Steinair, and B&C both stock them. If think it's fine, then I'll believe you - I've just spent big bucks on this (see attached pic) military style breakout plug, which is rated at 5A per pin. :-( Then the $time$ invested to swap horses right now is probably not a good investment. For others watching this thread, know that it is possible and practical to achieve nearly full-mil-spec connections in your small wires using the really good pins and anybody's removable-pin d-sub shells. Know too that if you need to run more than 5-7 amps though any one wire, you CAN parallel pins if you include a 12" or so total length of 22AWG wire for ballasting-resistance in series with each pin (10-20 milliohms). This mall resistance washes out pin-to-pin variables that make short-wire paralleling risky. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/Paralleled_D-Sub_Pins.jpg I used this technique in a mil-qualified super-sonic target http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_1st_Ops_Flight.jpg power distribution controller . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/GQM_Power_Dist.jpg to switch 20+ amp battery feeders. I de-rated to 3A per pin, had 12" 22AWG wire in series with each of 7 paralleled pins to effect a high current feeder through the d-sub. It passed all the qualification tests. Bottom line is that the lowly D-Sub is an exceedingly good value if you can exploit the simple-ideas behind its design and applications. Here's the tool/locator reference chart for those of you who prowl about the hall of the auctions: http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/Tool-Locater_Cross_Reference.jpg Note that there's a super-pin for D-subs that handles a single 18AWG wire or two 22AWG wires. This pin's crimp is at the back of a long pin where the wire grip resides outside the connector shell. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:10 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: [OT] Pronunciation question Robert McCallum a crit : > > Now, now Gilles. Lets not carry this too far. We could go on forever. Your > command of English is excellent by the way. Far better than some whose first > language is English. > Bob, Thank you for your message. Sorry for bothering everyone with non-electric questions. Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:48 PM PST US From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimmer Control Units Bob: My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of hardware is the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and controllers: ACS has many types... Ameri-King Light Dimmers Solid State Light Kits Lc-40E/LC-40 Lighting Controllers Val CLA 500 Solid State Assembly Multiple Circuit Solid State Dimmers MAX DIM DIMMER Control Unit B&C's Dimmer System VANS ES Dimmer Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats? My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for radio/gps/transponder. What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have.... Henry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:26 PM PST US From: "William Slaughter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch question "There's a Microswitch catalog for the TL series devices on my server at: http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Microswitch_TL-Series.pdf There is a correlation between the dash-numbers I adopted (and B&C retained) for identifying switch functionality. An S700-1-3 is a Micoroswitch 1TL1-3 An S700-2-10 is a Microswitch 2TL1-10 etc. Bob . . ." You can order them through DigiKey. Note that the TL series all use screw terminals, but Honeywell has similar switches with Fast-On Tabs. It appears that the -50 and -70 types are only available in the TL series. The Digikey catalog page has all the details. William Slaughter RV-8QB -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:50 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch question Thanks Bob, I have been following the Carling thread. Now I ask what the Microswitch part to match the 2-10 Carling. Sorry I did not save the Micro link, but now I need a part number. Thanks again, Paul ====================== At 09:10 PM 10/1/2008, you wrote: > > >At 07:13 PM 10/1/2008 -0600, you wrote: >> >>Can any one give me a quick answer for the amp rating of a >>S700-2-10 switch The application is for a fuel pump that draws 8.5 >>amps steady state. >>Thanks, Paul > > It should be okay for this application. We've seen > a rash of failures for the Carling switches sold > by B&C and others . . . the ones with riveted fast-on > tabs. Be sure and install these with LOOSE coupling > between bundled wires and individual tabs . . . something > like 2" of free wire that has a pretty good bend > in it too. > > I'm pretty convinced that the failures observed had > a beginning with too much mechanical stress on these > riveted joints. Once the pressure in the joint starts > to relax, resistance goes up and it's downhill from > there. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:57 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimmer Control Units I'm not Bob and this doesn't directly answer your question, but I saw an ad in the current (8/08) issue of Sport Aviation, page 17, for a new dimmer that looks interesting. http://pilotlights.net/ They sell various lights and light strips and stuff too. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henry Trzeciakowski Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dimmer Control Units Bob: My instrument panel is about 80% complete and the next piece of hardware is the dimmer system. I've been looking at numerous systems and controllers: ACS has many types... Ameri-King Light Dimmers Solid State Light Kits Lc-40E/LC-40 Lighting Controllers Val CLA 500 Solid State Assembly Multiple Circuit Solid State Dimmers MAX DIM DIMMER Control Unit B&C's Dimmer System VANS ES Dimmer Is one better than another: i.e. solid state vs using rheostats? My plan is to have 2 systems: 1 for flight instruments and 1 for radio/gps/transponder. What experience or suggestions do you or anyone have.... Henry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:23 PM PST US From: "RALPH HOOVER" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects The EN3 series from switchcraft is also a good choice available in both bulkhead and cord mount, weather tite, not difficult to solder. They are small, light, good strain relief, inexpensive and work well for the trim system. I also have one in the panel for a Hand held radio power/audio interface to the audio panel. (Available from Digikey http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T083/P0394.pdf) http://www.switchcraft.com/products/pdf_files/connector-28c_schematic.pdf Ralph & Laura Hoover RV7A N527LR -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:16 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Preferred Bulkhead Disconnects Picked up the end of this thread late and wasn't sure what kinds of wires were being considered. For 22 to 20 AWG wires at 4A or less, the d-subs are connectors of choice. They're inexpensive and tooling for installing the machined pins is also inexpensive. For transitions between the gawd-awful 26AWG leadwires on a RAC trim actuator, consider this technique: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html If you need to break robust wires that carry landing lights or pitot heat, consider this technique http://aeroelectric.com/articles/wingwire/wingwire.html or something similar. 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