Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - Re: Durocell Leaking Batteries (Richard Girard)
2. 06:35 AM - Off topic - 737 runs out of battery power (Sam Hoskins)
3. 06:56 AM - Re: Installing Audio Jacks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:45 AM - Vision Microsystems IO Board ()
5. 09:07 AM - Re: Durocell Leaking Batteries (John Cox)
6. 09:35 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 10/26/08 (John Markey)
7. 09:45 AM - Dynon EFIS & EMS power on the main bus (Jeff Davidson)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Dry Cell Batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:07 AM - Re: Off topic - 737 runs out of battery power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:21 AM - Re: Off topic - 737 runs out of battery power (MauleDriver)
11. 03:42 PM - Re: Installing Audio Jacks (Carlos Trigo)
12. 05:20 PM - Re: Installing Audio Jacks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:38 PM - Re: AUX BATTERY MANAGEMENT MODULE (Mike Pienaar)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Durocell Leaking Batteries |
Following Bob's report on the quality of alkaline batteries from Dollar
General several years ago, I've been using them exclusively. Never had the
problem you're experiencing with a single one and they're half the price of
the major brands, typically 20 for $5.
Rick
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:18 PM, jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Has anyone else experienced an increase of Durocell batteries leaking in
> devices in the last couple years. I've used them for years in test
> equipment, cameras, and high dollar radios because they didn't leak. Can't
> say that no more. So far I had them leak in a couple small Mag flashlights,
> my PDA device, and my GPS. A little further back they done in my red/white
> lens aviation flash light also. I never used to have a problem with them.
> They cost more than ever today and appear to leak more, is there a
> relationship here. I never recharge them.
>
> Darn, I just looked behind me at a package to see if I had spelled the name
> right, and found another one of a few I had sitting their has leaked.
> Crap.... Might they relabeling Rayovac's. What is different with these
> batteries selling now?
> jerb
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Off topic - 737 runs out of battery power |
Speaking of standby power, here is an interesting preliminary NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 081007X03940&key=1
I wonder why they didn't land when they first switched to battery power,
since "The QRH procedure also referenced that, "The battery will provide bus
power for approximately 30 minutes." ".
Message 3
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| Subject: | Installing Audio Jacks |
At 08:53 PM 10/26/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>Bob
>
>
>I really didn t find anything about my question in the link you provided,
>although it is your book s chapter about Audio Systems.
My apologies, I thought I'd touched on signal grounds
in that chapter . . .
In complex machines where there is a mix of power (100 ma and
up) and signal systems (milliamperes and down) it is useful to
make some effort to isolate these systems from each other as
much as practical.
This starts with single point grounding so that no potential
victim (in this case headphones) has it's desired signal (ATC
talking to you) polluted with undesired signals (alternator
whine) because the power and signal ground paths are shared
along some portion of the airframe.
The underlying thought here is that "ground is not ground"
for all systems when you simply tie the ground wires to the
vehicle structure. At Cessna way back when, we simply tied
mic and headset jacks to airframe ground at the lower edge
of the panel. As loads in the airplane went up and generators
were replaced with alternators, there was the occasional situation
where alternator noise was heard by folks at the other end of
your transmission . . . or you could hear alternator whine
in your headsets.
NONE of the noise mitigating techniques (isolation washers,
single point grounds, shielded wires, etc) are absolute
guarantees against having to wrestle with a noise issue. These
are easy to accomplish, prophylactic measures that have been
shown to be useful in the past and when implemented in total
one can expect eliminating 99.9% of all potential noise
propagation paths . . . therefore we recommend that they be
implemented as standard practice.
Bob . . .
>
>
>Can you please be more specific about what you think about not insulating
>the Headphone jack?
>
>And if I isolate it, to where exactly should I connect the ground lug of
>the Headphone jack?
>
>
>Carlos
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
>
> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>
> > Sent: domingo, 26 de Outubro de 2008 20:23
>
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Installing Audio Jacks
>
> >
>
>
> > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> >
>
> > At 07:25 PM 10/26/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >I am installing the Intercom in my RV and I remember reading in this forum
>
> > >that, when installing the audio jacks on the panel or any other aluminium
>
> > >surface of the cockpit, one shall isolate the jacks from the metal surface
>
> > >with plastic or rubber insulating washers.
>
> > >
>
> > >However, in the Flightcom instructions they only recommend (and include
>
> > >washers to) isolation of the Microphone jack and not in the Headphone
> jack.
>
> > >
>
> > >They even show in the schematic drawing the Headphone jack locally
> grounded.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >Is this correct? If yes, why?
>
> >
>
> > It's a good idea if not a necessary thing to isolate
>
> > small signal systems from airframe ground . . .
>
> >
>
> > See
>
> > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Bob . . .
>
> >
>
> > ----------------------------------------)
>
> > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
>
> > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
>
> > ( appearance of being right . . . )
>
> > ( )
>
> > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
>
> > ----------------------------------------
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ==========
>
> > AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
>
> > browse
>
> > Un/Subscription,
>
> > FAQ,
>
> >
>
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> > ==========
>
> > bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
> > Forums!
>
> >
>
> > ==========
>
> > bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -
>
> >
>
> > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> > ==========
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>2:52 PM
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Vision Microsystems IO Board |
Does anyone have any information of the Vision Micros systems IO Board? I'd
like to add one to my existing EPI800 system but JPI/VMS no longer stock the
item. They're not particularly helpful in locating one or providing
information so I can build one (I have the technology). Any information
would be helpful. A manual, wiring diagram, schematic, hi-res picture,
anything. Thanks Neil
Message 5
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| Subject: | Durocell Leaking Batteries |
Confirming an increased rate in the Duracell batteries, AA and AAA
purchased at Costco in large quantity packs in the last 36 months.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jerb
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Durocell Leaking Batteries
Hi,
Has anyone else experienced an increase of Durocell batteries leaking
in devices in the last couple years. I've used them for years in
test equipment, cameras, and high dollar radios because they didn't
leak. Can't say that no more. So far I had them leak in a couple
small Mag flashlights, my PDA device, and my GPS. A little further
back they done in my red/white lens aviation flash light also. I
never used to have a problem with them. They cost more than ever
today and appear to leak more, is there a relationship here. I never
recharge them.
Darn, I just looked behind me at a package to see if I had spelled
the name right, and found another one of a few I had sitting their
has leaked. Crap.... Might they relabeling Rayovac's. What is
different with these batteries selling now?
jerb
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 10/26/08 |
Jerb,
-
YES !!!
-
I have seen them fail most recently in my 121.5Mhz ELT - ruined it, they le
aked so bad.
Also, I pitched out a new LED flashlight that used 1 AA battery. The batter
y was so swelled and caused so much corrosion in the casing that I couldn't
extract it.
-
Not sure what's up with DURACELL, but this is killin' me. I need a new ELT
and don't want to buy an old 121.5 unit, and my cheap slef isn't willing to
buy an overpriced 405 unit.
-
John
Glasair 2FT
Hi,
Has anyone else experienced an increase of Durocell batteries leaking
in devices in the last couple years.- I've used them for years in
test equipment, cameras,- and high dollar radios because they didn't
leak.- Can't say that no more.- So far I had them leak in a couple
small Mag flashlights, my PDA device, and my GPS.- A little further
back they done in my red/white lens aviation flash light also.- I
never used to have a problem with them.- They cost more than ever
today and appear to leak more, is there a relationship here.- I never
recharge them.
Darn, I just looked behind me at a package to see if I had spelled
the name right, and found another one of a few I had sitting their
has leaked.- Crap....- Might they relabeling Rayovac's.---What is
different with these batteries selling now?
jerb
=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS & EMS power on the main bus |
Background: I tried to start my Jabiru 3300A yesterday. It didn't start because
of a lack of fuel. I can address that. At the same time, an electrical system
question has come up. The battery is a 2-3 year old 17 Amp Hour motorcycle
battery. It was charged up and eventually spun the engine fast enough to start
under normal circumstances in my opinion. I intend to replace it soon.
The ship's wiring diagram is a combination of Jabiru's design from their installation
manual augmented with Aeroconnection techniques like the forest of ground
tabs. As such, with the Permanent Magnet alternator, I followed Jabiru's
advice that Over Voltage protection is not needed.
Question: My question here is about the wiring of the Dynon EMS and EFIS to the
main bus. They are powered up when the Master Switch grounds the Battery Contactor.
The starter contactor is downstream of the battery contactor. When the
starter is engaged by grounding the starter contactor with the ignition switch,
both Dynons lost ship's power and came up on the backup battery. When we
had tried this several times, the Dynon backup battery was exhausted and the
Dynons simply went off. Again, the engine never started so all this was happening
while the starter was engaged. My question is whether or not the Dynons
should be moved to the Avionics bus. Yes, I have an Avionics Master and understand
the concern about it. The functional problem is that the tachometer and
oil pressure are displayed on the EMS and nowhere else. In the certified planes
with glass panels that I'm familiar with, the glass panels are similarly connected
to the Master Switch and stay on when the engine is started. I need
to be able to check oil pressure as soon as the engine starts.
Thanks for any light you can shed on this. Next time, I'll move the fuel selector
from the Off position!
Jeff Davidson (still an electrical newbie)
CH601-HD w/Jabiru3300A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Batteries? |
At 02:59 PM 10/26/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>The "AUX BATTERY MANAGEMENT MODULE" illustrated on page 2 in the article
>mentioned, can I buy that or do I have to make it.
>
That version of the device is no longer in production. For a time
I was offering bare boards . . . so you could do your own. There's
a DIY article on the website at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf.
However, depending on how soon you need it, there's
a new product under development (we started the software
last week) intended to replace the LV_Warn/ABMM with
a LV_Warn/On_Board_Battery_Capacity Meter.
Since Z-19 cannot readily make good use of a battery
capacity meter (two batteries that need to be tracked)
then perhaps we should consider a version of the new
product that drops in to replace the LV_Warn/ABMM . . .
I'll consider that as an option.
I just checked an we're out of the bare boards and
don't plan to restock those. If you'd like to go the
DIY route, there's artwork for the boards posted
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/9005-301-1C_Fab.pcb
You need to download free ECB crafting and ordering
software from:
http://expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
The minimum order for the boards is 3 coupons that
make 2 boards each for total of 6. This will cost
you about $61 total but perhaps you can find some
other DIY enthusiasts to share the board costs with.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic - 737 runs out of battery power |
At 08:29 AM 10/27/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Speaking of standby power, here is an interesting preliminary NTSB report:
><http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 081007X03940&key=1>http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 081007X03940&key=1
>
>I wonder why they didn't land when they first switched to battery power,
>since "The QRH procedure also referenced that, "The battery will provide
>bus power for approximately 30 minutes." ".
I'm presently involved in a task to upgrade and
airframe with new engines and associated accessories
along with a total overhaul of the cockpit to glass
screens. The customer is adamant that systems
functionality and operations in the upgraded electrical
system be identical to the older versions. The
rationale is that flight crews need to transition
across the fleet of aircraft with minimal risk
of doing the wrong thing in a new airplane based
on their experience with the old airplane.
This is a subtle if not overt admission that
in spite of specific perfectly accurate written
instructions, folks in command are vulnerable
to episodes of logic-lock . . .
Having a carefully crafted plan-B to back up
plan-A is one of those seemingly innocuous ideas
that can be exceedingly useful during situations
that are rare by design goal. Here our design goal
is to mini
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic - 737 runs out of battery power |
Very interesting. I'm not sure there is enough information here for an
untrained person (me) to actually see what was done correctly or
incorrectly. But I'm thinking that the procedure that called for the
standby system to be switched to BATT killed the charging of the main
battery. Conversely, it it had been left OFF, some subsystems would
have been offline but the critical systems would have continued to run
on battery power and the battery would have been charged....
...and while none of that quite makes sense to me, the write-up seems
like a lot of bureacratic-speak that is impossible to understand outside
of the 757/pro community.
Good off-topic. Thanks
do not archive
Sam Hoskins wrote:
> Speaking of standby power, here is an interesting preliminary NTSB report:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 081007X03940&key=1
> <http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 081007X03940&key=1>
>
> I wonder why they didn't land when they first switched to battery
> power, since "The QRH procedure also referenced that, "The battery
> will provide bus power for approximately 30 minutes." ".
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 11
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| Subject: | Installing Audio Jacks |
Many thanks Bob
Now I got the whole picture!! Obviously I will isolate the headphone jacks
as well.
Now, isolating the headphone jacks from the airframe, where should I connect
its ground lugs to?
Shall I run a dedicated wire from each jack ground lug?
Shall this wire go to the firewall single point ground, or to pin 13 (mic
return) or pin 1 (ground) of the Intercom?
By the way (and forgive me for asking so many questions), since I am using
shielded wire to connect Mic and Headphone jacks to the Intercom, on which
side should I connect the shield mesh to ground, the jack or the Intercom?
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: segunda-feira, 27 de Outubro de 2008 13:54
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Installing Audio Jacks
>
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 08:53 PM 10/26/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >I really didn t find anything about my question in the link you provided,
> >although it is your book s chapter about Audio Systems.
>
> My apologies, I thought I'd touched on signal grounds
> in that chapter . . .
>
> In complex machines where there is a mix of power (100 ma and
> up) and signal systems (milliamperes and down) it is useful to
> make some effort to isolate these systems from each other as
> much as practical.
>
> This starts with single point grounding so that no potential
> victim (in this case headphones) has it's desired signal (ATC
> talking to you) polluted with undesired signals (alternator
> whine) because the power and signal ground paths are shared
> along some portion of the airframe.
>
> The underlying thought here is that "ground is not ground"
> for all systems when you simply tie the ground wires to the
> vehicle structure. At Cessna way back when, we simply tied
> mic and headset jacks to airframe ground at the lower edge
> of the panel. As loads in the airplane went up and generators
> were replaced with alternators, there was the occasional situation
> where alternator noise was heard by folks at the other end of
> your transmission . . . or you could hear alternator whine
> in your headsets.
>
> NONE of the noise mitigating techniques (isolation washers,
> single point grounds, shielded wires, etc) are absolute
> guarantees against having to wrestle with a noise issue. These
> are easy to accomplish, prophylactic measures that have been
> shown to be useful in the past and when implemented in total
> one can expect eliminating 99.9% of all potential noise
> propagation paths . . . therefore we recommend that they be
> implemented as standard practice.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Installing Audio Jacks |
At 10:38 PM 10/27/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>Many thanks Bob
>
>Now I got the whole picture!! Obviously I will isolate the headphone jacks
>as well&
>
>
>Now, isolating the headphone jacks from the airframe, where should I
>connect its ground lugs to?
back to ground at the same device that drives the
headphones (iso amp, intercom?). See . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/Audio_Isolation_Amplifier.pdf
. . . in every schematic, I show the signal ground for EACH
headset and EACH microphone jack returned to ground on the
device that gets the signal wires.
>Shall I run a dedicated wire from each jack ground lug?
For headsets, I use single shielded (shielded pair for
stereo) and often use the shield itself as the ground
return. This way all the conductors stay together. Mic
jacks can be a shielded trio (or shielded pair with
ground being the signal ground for the mic jack. Either
way works fine.
>Shall this wire go to the firewall single point ground, or to pin 13 (mic
>return) or pin 1 (ground) of the Intercom?
To the device that needs or delivers signals to the other
end.
The next audio isolation amp under design will have LOTS
of extra ground pins to accommodate minimum-risk wiring
techniques without having to splice a half dozen grounds
before dropping them into a single pin. These grounds
never go to an airframe ground like g1 thru g5 unless
specifically called out on the diagram.
Bob . . .
>
>
>By the way (and forgive me for asking so many questions), since I am using
>shielded wire to connect Mic and Headphone jacks to the Intercom, on which
>side should I connect the shield mesh to ground, the jack or the Intercom?
At the intercom end only unless you're using that
ground as part of the signal path.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: AUX BATTERY MANAGEMENT MODULE |
Thanks,
No rush, I'll wait for your module
Cheers
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dry Cell Batteries?
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 02:59 PM 10/26/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>>The "AUX BATTERY MANAGEMENT MODULE" illustrated on page 2 in the article
>>mentioned, can I buy that or do I have to make it.
>>
>
> That version of the device is no longer in production. For a time
> I was offering bare boards . . . so you could do your own. There's
> a DIY article on the website at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf.
>
> However, depending on how soon you need it, there's
> a new product under development (we started the software
> last week) intended to replace the LV_Warn/ABMM with
> a LV_Warn/On_Board_Battery_Capacity Meter.
>
> Since Z-19 cannot readily make good use of a battery
> capacity meter (two batteries that need to be tracked)
> then perhaps we should consider a version of the new
> product that drops in to replace the LV_Warn/ABMM . . .
> I'll consider that as an option.
>
> I just checked an we're out of the bare boards and
> don't plan to restock those. If you'd like to go the
> DIY route, there's artwork for the boards posted
> at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/9005-301-1C_Fab.pcb
>
> You need to download free ECB crafting and ordering
> software from:
>
> http://expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm
>
> The minimum order for the boards is 3 coupons that
> make 2 boards each for total of 6. This will cost
> you about $61 total but perhaps you can find some
> other DIY enthusiasts to share the board costs with.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
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