---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/05/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:20 AM - List Fund Raiser (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:38 AM - Re: Re:Crossflow Subaru Engine (Ernest Christley) 2. 08:58 AM - Re: Re:Crossflow Subaru Engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 3. 04:57 PM - Intercom Audio Ground (Carlos Trigo) 4. 06:32 PM - Re: Intercom Audio Ground (Robert McCallum) 5. 06:32 PM - Re: Intercom Audio Ground () ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:16 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: List Fund Raiser A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... 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I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercials that are so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List sites. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution related message. For example, if someone replies to one of the messages, when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum. The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are anonymous public access methods, there is no simple way to filter them.] ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:06 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Crossflow Subaru Engine Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > > The idea that these are "plug and play" and can just be popped into > your airframe like a Lyco is false, The idea that a Lyco is "plug and play" and can just be popped into your airframe is false also. A proper Lyco installation requires no less engineering than an auto installation. What is different is that usually all the engineering has already been done by the plane's designer. It is not at all uncommon to here of engine problems in a new airplane design. Those problems are generally dismissed with a "Yeah, we know how to handle that" or "That's just the way Lycomings are." (Oil seeping cases anyone?) It boils down to the simple fact that using an alternative engine means that you are working on an alternative airplane design. You can't pull just one string of a spider's web. For planes that are designed for an alternative engine*, just popping in a Lyco would be the difficult choice. *If it is designed for an alternative engine, wouldn't that make the Lyco the alternative? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:42 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re:Crossflow Subaru Engine I havent replied to this thread but having built both a Lycoming and a soob powered airplanes here are my thoughts. As others have said be prepared to do some engineering with an auto conversion. The problem is not normally with the engine itself, its if the engine has been "rebuilt" and the ancillery components like the gearbox have a lot less development hours than the engine itself. As an installation is only as strong as the weakest link then it is not unusual to find some issues... Fuel consumption for the same amount of power are really not much different between a Lyc and a soob...Now a Lyc with fuel injection can be run LOP which improves the BSFC by quite a bit. I don't honestly know if automotive FI systems have this option. One thing not mentioned below is cooling drag. This is a hotly debated issue. In a slow airplane its probably not going to make any difference, but in a fast airplane the cooling drag is a significant part of the overall drag. A radiator has a lower temp than a cylinder head. This translates into more cooling flow required for the same amount of horsepower rejected. I have seen a few RV's with water cooled engines that have larger exits scoops for this very reason...How much does this translate into increased fuel flow to fly at the same speed as an air cooled motor has yet to be determined. I think the old wives tale about "lycomings need 100LL" is now long dead and buried..a lot of them are run on mogas and mine is now run on 10% ethanol without a problem. I too will avoid 100LL if I can. The big advantage as far as I can see for an automotive install is the rebuild cost will be considerably lower than a lyc. Frank Rv7a IO360..330 hours Zenair zodiac Ea 81 soob..4000 hours Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:46 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Crossflow Subaru Engine Which is all mostly true but mostly surmountable with effort. My one off 2.2 liter subaru with dual multi port EFI and electrical systems comes in at about the same weight as an 0-320. The mission weight with fuel for the same range is arguably quite a bit less. SFC's are similar to a Lyc running LOP but I happily cruise at very low power (just over 4 gph) with no fouling, temperature, or mixture issues. Yet it seems to match a fixed pitch 0-320 for take off and climb performance. All with an economical Warp Drive prop. I cruise slow but I usually catch up to my buddies (same aircraft types) by the time they've finished refueling. At the end of the day I've burnt about half the fuel quantity and it is cheaper mogas. I don't participate in the "how hot is your engine" conversations, and I'm there in time for the first beer ;) My only issue has been the gearbox which in my case is indeed heavy and expensive. But so far I'm happy with the second one. Conversions are over hyped and definitely not for everyone but they can be absolutely wonderful for some applications like mine. 0-320 STOL performance, the advantages of EFI, rotax 912 fuel consumption in cruise, hassle free winter flying, etc. Downside includes: I'm on my own if anything needs repair. Since I avoid leaded fuel, it is sometimes less convenient obtaining mogas on long trips. (Long means more than 7 hours in my case). It is getting harder to avoid alcohol but I will burn it in preference to 100LL as long as it is consumed within about 24 hours. Ken (I promise not to say any more on this list) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:09 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Audio Ground Hi there fowkes I am installing my Flightcom 403 intercom and I have a problem to solve. I need to connect several (4 or 5) audio ground wires that come from the pilot and co-pilot mic and headset jacks to a single pin in the D-Sub 25-pin connector. Can somebody please indicate me the best technique to do it? Carlos ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:03 PM PST US From: "Robert McCallum" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Audio Ground Carlos; This has been covered in the archives , but try techniques similar to these illustrated on Bob's web site. http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html or the "practical example" at the bottom of this page; http://aeroelectric.com/articles/multiplewires/multiplewires.html One of these should work for you. Bob McC ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Trigo To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Audio Ground Hi there fowkes I am installing my Flightcom 403 intercom and I have a problem to solve. I need to connect several (4 or 5) audio ground wires that come from the pilot and co-pilot mic and headset jacks to a single pin in the D-Sub 25-pin connector. Can somebody please indicate me the best technique to do it? Carlos ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:03 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Audio Ground Carlos Solder the 4-5 wires together with one extra wire and heat shrink the solder joint bundle. Take the one extra wire and put that into the D-sub connector. Neil _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Audio Ground Hi there fowkes I am installing my Flightcom 403 intercom and I have a problem to solve. I need to connect several (4 or 5) audio ground wires that come from the pilot and co-pilot mic and headset jacks to a single pin in the D-Sub 25-pin connector. Can somebody please indicate me the best technique to do it? Carlos ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.