---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/07/08: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:20 AM - Re: Alt to starter connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 05:51 AM - Re: ANL current limiter location on rear battery installations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: FAQ question... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:02 AM - invitation to Slobovia Outernational Pumpkin Drop 2008 (Charlie England) 5. 08:34 AM - Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses () 6. 08:41 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Charlie England) 7. 08:49 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Harley) 8. 09:02 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Matt Prather) 9. 09:04 AM - What's better? Re: thermocouple switching... (Steve Stearns) 10. 09:22 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 09:28 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Dale Ellis) 12. 09:42 AM - Re: What's better? Re: thermocouple switching... (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 13. 10:11 AM - Re: Thermocouple switching... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 10:20 AM - Re: Anything you walk away from is a GOOD landing . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 11:04 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses () 16. 11:14 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses () 17. 11:33 AM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Bill Boyd) 18. 12:10 PM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Carlos Trigo) 19. 05:20 PM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (LarryMcFarland) 20. 08:22 PM - Re: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alt to starter connection At 05:32 PM 11/6/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Thank you. I suspected it to be as you said, but I wanted to make sure >before I blow up an otherwise working alternator. > >The distance from the starter to alternator big leads is about 12 inches. It >will only save a few ounces, but I need all I can from up there, plus it >makes a slightly simpler installation. Simple is good. It is not be necessary to "worry about blowing up and otherwise good working alternator." Like aviation with a combination of SAE, RTCA, MIL-Specs, FARs, ISO, etc. etc the automotive industry is no less motivated to craft a product that shrugs off anything a system and most things that an installer throws at it. Aside from lack of cooling and flimsy installation with respect to vibration, there's nothing the OBAM aircraft installer should concern themselves with . . . especially nuances in wiring. These are NOT hand-painted china cups that will crumble in the hands of the uninitiated user. I mentioned a few weeks ago that I was privileged to get a huge data dump and first-hand look at an alternator refurbishment operation. That trip rebutted many of the popularly endorsed ideas about how alternators work and how they should be treated to protect the owner's return on investment. I'm working on an article that will share all I have learned. In the mean time, know that the shiny electro-whizzy you pulled out of the box from Smiley Jack's Purty Good Car Parts store is not the fragile device looking for a pampering. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ANL current limiter location on rear battery installations At 05:44 PM 11/6/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Ahhh, I see. I took your stance to be that the ANL fuse is a much required >item in our OBAM systems. I now take you to mean them to be fine to add, but >not wholly necessary to safety. Correct? It's not an easy thing to decide. Everything we do in terms of refining a design go to the problems of lowering failure rates (lowered risk and cost of ownership), reducing cost to manufacture (cost of ownership) and raising performance. >So having no circuit protection in both/either the alternator and/or starter >circuit in a competently-designed system is ok? Hard to swallow, but that's >why I'm asking. This is an excellent example of the value of studying the history of our craft and gleaning understanding of how ideas and products evolved from the time Wallace, Piper, Beech and others bolted their first batteries and generators onto a production aircraft. The question to be asked and answered is "protection from what?" Obviously, shorted or overloaded wires represent some hazard to overall functionality of the system. The idea of protection is to limit risk by limiting loss of function to the faulted pathway thus preventing the fault from propagating to other parts of the system. >I have an ANL fuse and holder, but in the interest of fewer connections >(hence less to go wrong), I may forego it. Given the very short transition between your alternator b-lead terminal and the starter terminal, it's EASY to make sure that wire is never faulted to ground. So the risk to be mitigated is taking a system down due to shorted diodes in the alternator. Let us assume you subscribe to the idea of keeping a robust battery on board. Probability is that shorted diodes will produce fault currents within the alternator that will fuse internal stator wires which are on the same order of robustness as the ANL limiters. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf These guys take a LOT of current to open them . . . the kind of current that you can expect from a battery that is maintained for the purposes of running your e-bus for duration of fuel aboard. So leaving the ANL out of this lead raises no specter of risk. Now, run that battery until it doesn't crank the engine any more and it's conceivable that a shorted set of diodes could put a load on the system that the battery cannot support and everything comes down. Having an ANL in the b-lead probably wouldn't have made any difference. The point is that if you procure, craft, and operate a system from the perspective of meeting design goals and understanding how that's accomplished, your risks go WAY down compared to the vast majority of our flying brothers who only pull levers and twist knobs. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: FAQ question... At 05:38 PM 11/6/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >I feel comfortable with the alternator disconnect solenoid in series with >the "control" wire on my IR alternator. If I should feel the need to throw >the Master DC switch to the BATT position, my alternator will simply become >a spinning weight up front. > >I'm installing the OVM-14 on the 5 amp CB on the panel, so the only thing >yet missing from my panel is the 2x4 coming at me during the over/under >voltage event. I'm still considering options for which way I want to go, and >the B&C BC207-1 is looking right for the job. I designed the BC207 to fill a niche on ultralights. If you have OV protection, you do not need OV warning. That light will be on and off so fast that you won't notice it. This leaves only LV warning. I used to offer a LV warning product but discontinued it in favor of a quantum jump upgrade. Details are available at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/LV_Warn_Fab_and_Install.pdf . . . if you're willing to spend some time with a soldering iron and herd a few parts, you can craft his device yourself. Alternatively, we're working on a new stable of products from the 'Connection that will include this guy . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1C.pdf It has three functions which may be used in any combination and would provide your LV warning. Additionally, the second LV warning channel could be used to monitor any present or future AUX Battery installation to remind you to bring it on line after engine start when that battery is used to support products not designed to live in the real world of airplanes. It will be in the same ball park for price as the BC207. I'm looking into practicality of having it also control the b-lead disconnect contactor in a Z-24 like installation. Jury is still out on that. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:01 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: AeroElectric-List: invitation to Slobovia Outernational Pumpkin Drop 2008 If anyone on the aeroelectric list is near central Mississippi, you're invited to come on down to Slobovia Outernational (MS71), 10 miles north of Jackson MS, to eat some BBQ & participate in our 2nd annual Pumpkin Drop tomorrow, Nov 8, 2008. Give me a call at 601-879-9596 if you need directions. Charlie ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses From: Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find anything below 5 amp. Thanks, Glenn Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:15 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses longg@pjm.com wrote: > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > anything below 5 amp. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > > Do Not Archive If you're talking about the old 1/4x 1 1/4 inch glass fuses, try an electronics supply house. Blade type, you might have to resort to mail order. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:38 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses Not sure whether you want the newer blade fuses, or the old standard tubular type, but Radio shack carries them both. Just checked online and they do indeed have them both from 1 amp and up. Harley ------------------------------------------------------------------------ longg@pjm.com wrote: > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > anything below 5 amp. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > > Do Not Archive > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Agelesswings certifies that no virus is in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses From: "Matt Prather" What size wire requires a fuse less than 5A? Or is this for another application? Matt- > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > anything below 5 amp. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:17 AM PST US From: Steve Stearns Subject: AeroElectric-List: What's better? re: thermocouple switching... Bob and the group, I've read and understood the book and list info on switching thermocouples (i.e. importance of iso-thermally balanced couples etc.) and haven't found the answer as to which is better between the following choices related to type "K" to copper transition connections going into/out-of the "switch box" (which is via a single "DB" style connector). A) terminate "K" wires with "K" type pins (Expensive, but I already have them. They are stamped, not machined, pins. ), terminate copper wires with standard machined gold pins -> resulting balanced couples between "K" wire types and gold at pin/socket interface. (how important is contact pressure to a repeatable "couple" connection?) B) terminate "K" wires with standard gold pins, terminate copper with mating pins -> resulting balanced couples between "K" wire types and gold at a machined pin crimp connection (my favorite at my current level of ignorance... but I don't know the mechanical stability of "K" type wire in this type of crimp - at least the "K" type wire IS stranded here, and I also don't know the voltage/temp relationship between "K" wire types and gold) C) terminate "K" wires with copper pig-tails via single crimp over both wires (i.e. put both wires into one side of a butt splice and crimp) terminate copper pigtails with machined gold pins, terminate switch copper with mating gold pins. -> resulting matched couples are gas-tight crimps between "K" wires and copper. (seemingly best for bi-metal interface but worse for ensuring iso-thermal connections and logistics) D) some other option I haven't thought of? Anyone know the voltage/temp relationship between the two "K" wire types and gold? I except that each of the above is likely to work "good enough" but hey, if I have to choose anyway, I might as well pick a method I can argue is the best of the options. Thanks in advance, Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses At 09:59 AM 11/7/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >What size wire requires a fuse less than 5A? Or is this for another >application? > > >Matt- > > > > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > > anything below 5 amp. 5A is certainly adequate for protection of 22AWG wire which is the smallest practical feeder that should be tied to a bus. Having said that, it's useful to drop to still lower protection levels to extend protection to the interior of an appliance. This goes beyond the simple idea of protecting the airframe. The smaller sizes are not in common distribution. I used to stock 1, 2 and 3A sizes. B&C still does at: http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?27X358218#S889-1 You won't find them in auto parts stores but lots of folks offer them on the 'net. Do a Google on "ATC-1". "ATC-2" etc. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:33 AM PST US From: Dale Ellis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses B & C Electic has the blade type fuses in amp ratings below 5 amps Dale -----Original Message----- >From: longg@pjm.com >Sent: Nov 7, 2008 11:31 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses > > >Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? >I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find >anything below 5 amp. > > >Thanks, >Glenn > > >Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:32 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What's better? re: thermocouple switching... Steve & Bob, I have been led to believe that the connector pin material does not matter if the temperature of both sided (male and female) are the same. I am not sure of this, and maybe Bob has an answer. Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Stearns Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 1:03 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: What's better? re: thermocouple switching... Bob and the group, I've read and understood the book and list info on switching thermocouples (i.e. importance of iso-thermally balanced couples etc.) and haven't found the answer as to which is better between the following choices related to type "K" to copper transition connections going into/out-of the "switch box" (which is via a single "DB" style connector). A) terminate "K" wires with "K" type pins (Expensive, but I already have them. They are stamped, not machined, pins. ), terminate copper wires with standard machined gold pins -> resulting balanced couples between "K" wire types and gold at pin/socket interface. (how important is contact pressure to a repeatable "couple" connection?) B) terminate "K" wires with standard gold pins, terminate copper with mating pins -> resulting balanced couples between "K" wire types and gold at a machined pin crimp connection (my favorite at my current level of ignorance... but I don't know the mechanical stability of "K" type wire in this type of crimp - at least the "K" type wire IS stranded here, and I also don't know the voltage/temp relationship between "K" wire types and gold) C) terminate "K" wires with copper pig-tails via single crimp over both wires (i.e. put both wires into one side of a butt splice and crimp) terminate copper pigtails with machined gold pins, terminate switch copper with mating gold pins. -> resulting matched couples are gas-tight crimps between "K" wires and copper. (seemingly best for bi-metal interface but worse for ensuring iso-thermal connections and logistics) D) some other option I haven't thought of? Anyone know the voltage/temp relationship between the two "K" wire types and gold? I except that each of the above is likely to work "good enough" but hey, if I have to choose anyway, I might as well pick a method I can argue is the best of the options. Thanks in advance, Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:06 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Thermocouple switching... At 11:02 AM 11/7/2008 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob and the group, > >I've read and understood the book and list info on switching thermocouples >(i.e. importance of iso-thermally balanced couples etc.) and haven't found >the answer as to which is better between the following choices related to >type "K" to copper transition connections going into/out-of the "switch >box" (which is via a single "DB" style connector). > >A) terminate "K" wires with "K" type pins (Expensive, but I already have >them. They are stamped, not machined, pins. ), terminate copper wires >with standard machined gold pins -> resulting balanced couples between "K" >wire types and gold at pin/socket interface. (how important is contact >pressure to a repeatable "couple" connection?) >B) terminate "K" wires with standard gold pins, terminate copper with >mating pins -> resulting balanced couples between "K" wire types and gold >at a machined pin crimp connection (my favorite at my current level of >ignorance... but I don't know the mechanical stability of "K" type wire in >this type of crimp - at least the "K" type wire IS stranded here, and I >also don't know the voltage/temp relationship between "K" wire types and gold) >C) terminate "K" wires with copper pig-tails via single crimp over both >wires (i.e. put both wires into one side of a butt splice and crimp) >terminate copper pigtails with machined gold pins, terminate switch copper >with mating gold pins. -> resulting matched couples are gas-tight crimps >between "K" wires and copper. (seemingly best for bi-metal interface but >worse for ensuring iso-thermal connections and logistics) >D) some other option I haven't thought of? > >Anyone know the voltage/temp relationship between the two "K" wire types >and gold? Doesn't matter if you faithfully observe the doctrine of parasitic couple error mitigation by thermally local pairing. For example, you can carry a thermocouple through a d-sub connector with minimal error because the parasitic thermocouples of wire-to-pin crimps in each path cancel each other's effects. The pin-to-pin junctions cancel because they are equal voltages (close thermal proximity) and opposite polarity with respect to each other. You can take your wires though an all copper switch box as long as there are NO DIFFERENCES in the number, style and temperatures amongst the parasitic joints inserted in both sides of a thermocouple pair. The finish and base material of the various couples need to be minimized but for the way we use thermocouples in airplanes, errors introduced by an array of paired-opposing parasitic couples are negligible. >I except that each of the above is likely to work "good enough" but hey, >if I have to choose anyway, I might as well pick a method I can argue is >the best of the options. Do what you need to do to meet design goals for function . . . disconnects, switches, etc and keep the errors equal in magnitude and opposite in polarity. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Anything you walk away from is a GOOD landing . . . At 10:31 AM 11/6/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >>Something to be said for torque-tube aileron controls. >>If this airplane had been rigged with cables . . . >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv_w3IrRYq0 > > They got you Bob - it is an RC model in a "faked" video... :-) Which is why it's always good to have lots of eyes looking at it. After the initial surprise and amazement, a careful sifting of the simple-ideas can launch a line of questions that ultimately expose underlying simple-ideas. I used to do forensic animations for a living. We called the "Videmations - real time demonstrations of facts in evidence." Obviously, one can animate anything the imagination can conjure. When producing an animation for the purpose of adding understanding, it's important that everything shown has foundation in physics and good data. I crafted model motion systems to position vehicles in accordance with data on frame-by-frame vehicle positions provided to me by the analyst expert. The analyst first testifies as to how the data was generated. We would then offer a real-time illustration of the expert's analysis. The video assists an expert in guiding the viewers perceptions of his/her testimony true-time. The simple-ideas behind our efforts were subject to discovery by all interested parties. Close inspection of this video folks here on the List have demonstrated the forensic weaknesses in its production. Good work folks. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses From: Thanks for the suggestions. I am looking for the ATC blade type. The key term is "on the street". I need them tomorrow. I'll try the Radio Shanty. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ellis Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses B & C Electic has the blade type fuses in amp ratings below 5 amps Dale -----Original Message----- >From: longg@pjm.com >Sent: Nov 7, 2008 11:31 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses > > >Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? >I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find >anything below 5 amp. > > >Thanks, >Glenn > > >Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses From: Matt, You must have one of those 48' Bonanzas :) Many pieces of modern equipment are now running well below 5 amps. My strobes, efis panels, nav lights, trim, some radios, gauges, led lights and so on all run in the 1-3 amp range. Pretty soon these things will run on batteries and well just place a solar panel on the wind screen and fly above the clouds. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses What size wire requires a fuse less than 5A? Or is this for another application? Matt- > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > anything below 5 amp. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:42 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses IIRC, fuses are sized to protect the wire, not the device. Where are you finding wire gauges light enough to need 1, 2, or 3 A protection? I've never encountered wire this small in experimental aviation except possibly a MAC trim servo, and for some reason never fused those wires. Minds that need examining want to know... -Bill B On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:12 PM, wrote: > > Matt, > > You must have one of those 48' Bonanzas :) Many pieces of modern > equipment are now running well below 5 amps. My strobes, efis panels, > nav lights, trim, some radios, gauges, led lights and so on all run in > the 1-3 amp range. Pretty soon these things will run on batteries and > well just place a solar panel on the wind screen and fly above the > clouds. > > Glenn > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt > Prather > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:00 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses > > > > What size wire requires a fuse less than 5A? Or is this for another > application? > > > Matt- > > > > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the > street? > > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > > anything below 5 amp. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Glenn > > > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- --Bill So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause... ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:29 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses Bill I am not an EE, as a matter of fact I'm a Civil Eng, but it seems to me that although fuses are designed to protect the wire, the current (which determines the fuse Amp) that runs through the wire depends on the device it serves. For example, when installing the GPSx96 in the panel the instructions call for a 1A fuse or CB, and the AOA Cpu from Proprietary (now AFS) calls for 4A, and Flightcom 403 intercom call for AWG 20 or 22 wire and 1A breaker/fuse. Am I missing something? Carlos _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boyd Sent: sexta-feira, 7 de Novembro de 2008 19:30 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses IIRC, fuses are sized to protect the wire, not the device. Where are you finding wire gauges light enough to need 1, 2, or 3 A protection? I've never encountered wire this small in experimental aviation except possibly a MAC trim servo, and for some reason never fused those wires. Minds that need examining want to know... -Bill B On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:12 PM, wrote: Matt, You must have one of those 48' Bonanzas :) Many pieces of modern equipment are now running well below 5 amps. My strobes, efis panels, nav lights, trim, some radios, gauges, led lights and so on all run in the 1-3 amp range. Pretty soon these things will run on batteries and well just place a solar panel on the wind screen and fly above the clouds. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses What size wire requires a fuse less than 5A? Or is this for another application? Matt- > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > anything below 5 amp. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > > Do Not Archive > > -- --Bill So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause... ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:18 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses Hi Glen, I just purchased 2 Amp fuses from Home Depot, the electrical parts department. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive longg@pjm.com wrote: > > Does anyone know of a place to purchase 1,2 & 3 amp fuses on the street? > I've tried a number of auto stores, Walmart etc, but cannot find > anything below 5 amp. > > > Thanks, > Glenn > > > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Need 1,2 & 3 amp fuses At 08:08 PM 11/7/2008 +0000, you wrote: >Bill > > >I am not an EE, as a matter of fact I m a Civil Eng, but it seems to me >that although fuses are designed to protect the wire, the current (which >determines the fuse Amp) that runs through the wire depends on the device >it serves. > >For example, when installing the GPSx96 in the panel the instructions call >for a 1A fuse or CB, and the AOA Cpu from Proprietary (now AFS) calls for >4A, and Flightcom 403 intercom call for AWG 20 or 22 wire and 1A breaker/fuse. > > >Am I missing something? It's a matter of perspective. Folks who sell you an electro-whizzy would appreciate it if you did not power their 100 milliampere device with a 14AWG wire and 15A breaker. The flight safety guys wouldn't care, their job is to see that faults on the feeder don't unnecessarily increase risk to the airframe. But if the electro-whizzy shorts a 15-cent capacitor and burns a trace on a board, the repairs may be costly if not impossible. As a practical matter, you (as system integrator, owner and operator) can choose to run 14AWG wire for very low voltage drop and protect with a 1A fuse for ECB protection without insulting the bureaucrat or warranty service manager's sensibilities. In the final analysis, you're the one who does the implementation and is required to shoulder consequences. This is one feature of Greg Richter's one-size-fits-all philosophy of populating the power distribution with one value of protection and routing power all over the airplane on one size of wire. While it relieves the installer of having to make any decisions it keeps the thoughtful builder from tailoring system components to satisfy a variety of design goals. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.