Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - Re: Tachometer Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 07:35 AM - Re: What's My Contribution Used For? ()
3. 07:54 AM - Lessons Learned, Lessons Forgotten, Tools for Sharing (James H Nelson)
4. 08:28 AM - Re: Choosing Z-Diagram base ()
5. 08:38 AM - Electronic ignition reliability (James H Nelson)
6. 08:57 AM - Re: What's My Contribution Used For? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:22 AM - Re: What's My Contribution Used For? (mlwynn@aol.com)
8. 09:35 AM - Re: Choosing Z-Diagram base ()
9. 09:54 AM - Re: Electronic ignition reliability (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 01:01 PM - Electronic ignition reliability (James H Nelson)
11. 02:27 PM - Re: Electronic ignition reliability (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 02:50 PM - Christmas Tree project for EAA (RScott)
13. 04:12 PM - Soldering fat wires (Sam Hoskins)
14. 05:36 PM - Re: Lessons Learned, Lessons Forgotten, Tools for Sharing (Henador Titzoff)
15. 05:57 PM - Re: Soldering fat wires (MLWynn@aol.com)
16. 08:02 PM - What wire to use for pitch servo ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tachometer Question |
At 08:59 PM 11/16/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>I have a Rotax 912S in a Europa I have been building. I have a Mitchell
>tach. installed and also an Audio Flight Avionics
>AV-10 digital electronic engine monitor. I want to monitor the rpm on both
>of these at the same time. Can anyone tell me what precautions I need to
>take in connecting these in parallel? I'm not very electronic savy, but I
>can understand some of the terms and parts one might use. Any thoughts?
I wish there were a simple answer. There are tachometers, and then
there are tachometers. MOST were originally crafted to interpret the
frequency (read rpm) information from magneto p-leads . . . the most
gawd awful 'signal' in an airplane.
Over the years, variations popped up including tachs that looked at
the AC widing of a Rotax engine, hall effect devices that read
the magnetic field spinning inside a magneto, crankshaft or tach
drive transducers, etc.
Each of these variants had 'signal' qualities that might
make the indicators incompatible with each other when driven
by a single signal source.
You need to know what the two indicators expect in the way
of an RPM sensing signal. Given that you're flying a Rotax,
it seems likely that the only choices you may have for this
engine is to read the AC voltage from the alternator winding
or some sort of add-on crankshaft sensor.
Given that most tachometer folks expect to read p-leads,
it may be that your engine will require some sort of signal
conditioner to make your existing tach indicators function.
Further, it may need to be a dual-output signal conditioner
that accommodates both tachs.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dumb question,
Why not get rid of the expensive 20 year old T1 technology and get high
speed cable for $100.00 /month? Are you married to the vendor? Storage
is cheap. I recently bought a Terabyte of storage for $130.00 that I can
carry in my hand. I can also store it off-site for a lot less money
because I don't need to crate tapes and other space consuming items
around. It's not like your serving up streaming video, this is just text
and a few pictures. Further, do you really have a requirement to provide
the public domain with guaranteed backups? Who is going to sue you if
you lose a year or two?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Dralle
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 3:46 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: What's My Contribution Used For?
<dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good
question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support
enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1
Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and
minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the
regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest
performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine,
List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive
data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets
the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom
applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse,
Search Engine, Forums, Wiki and PhotoShare.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you
and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free
from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and
computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all
those statements these days?
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of
these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List
Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your
Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Message 3
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| Subject: | Lessons Learned, Lessons Forgotten, Tools for Sharing |
Hernando,
I'm in my Phase one and have 20 hours on them. My engine starts
quickly and I love the timing method if you have to remove them for any
updating.
Jim
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Choosing Z-Diagram base |
Et al,
Thanks for your suggestions. My e-bus load will easily fall below 8A
with one ignition and one Dynon running. The Z-13/8 may be a great
opportunity to save weight, money and still keep the lights on. Other
than the dual electronic ignition my system has no special requirements.
I'll check it out.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Choosing Z-Diagram base
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 03:07 PM 11/12/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I am building a system which will contain a Lycoming 360 with dual
>electronic ignition and one alternator.
>
>I have looked at Z-12, Z-19 and Z-28 as an addendum.
>
>Which one or combination of these diagrams would support a good
>solution? I read somewhere in the pages that dual electronic ignition
>would best be served by two batteries.
. . . that statement is pretty old . . . when folks
were still installing a lot of vacuum pumps. Do you
plan a vacuum system or all electric?
If all electric, have you done a load analysis to
see how much power you need for comfortable completion
of flight with the main alternator out? You mentioned
Z-12 but consider also, Z-13/8. This is an exceedingly
light and inexpensive way to make sure you have electrons
to keep an engine running. I suspect you can trim an
e-bus load down to 8A or less. Keep in mind too that
you don't need to run both electronic ignitions all
the time. During alternator-out operations, you can
drop to one ignition with very little loss of performance
which still holds a second system in reserve.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Electronic ignition reliability |
Hi Ed
I'm just a new one. I've only got 20 hours on the bird since new
and I have upgraded the ignition units at every opportunity. I was going
to use the Light speed ign. units but went with the E-Magair system.
Time will tell but I'm very happy with the service and so far zero
problems. Since they are going for certification for regular aircraft,
they are not going to be a fly by night supplier. There are some units
out there with a lot more time than mine naturally. I am not sure who
has the greatest time but I would not be surprised if it were over 500
hours.
Jim
____________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
At 10:31 AM 11/17/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Dumb question,
>
>Why not get rid of the expensive 20 year old T1 technology and get high
>speed cable for $100.00 /month? Are you married to the vendor? Storage
>is cheap. I recently bought a Terabyte of storage for $130.00 that I can
>carry in my hand. I can also store it off-site for a lot less money
>because I don't need to crate tapes and other space consuming items
>around. It's not like your serving up streaming video, this is just text
>and a few pictures. Further, do you really have a requirement to provide
>the public domain with guaranteed backups? Who is going to sue you if
>you lose a year or two?
This isn't about hardware and connectivity, it's about $time$
and the willingness of folks with extra-ordinary abilities
and resources to support an activity that otherwise would
not exist.
How many folks have Matt's $time$, skills, resources and
enthusiasm for this activity? If it were cheap/easy, everybody
would be doing it. Given that $time$ is the rudimentary
commodity of exchange amongst free-market participants,
how many $hours$ were not wasted because the short
path to success was freely offered on the List? How
many such $hours$ were made available for more productive
efforts because of ideas shared on the List? Where
else can you get nearly instantaneous like-minded
individuals located anywhere on the surface of the
planet?
It's an honorable free-market decision for everyone who
participates on Matt's lists. One can free-load for ever,
and nobody is going to kick them off the List. At the same
time there is always risk that Matt will find the demans
on $time$ too great for his skills, resources and willingness
to to bear. I'm not suggesting that Matt is approaching
anything a tipping point . . . but it would be short-sighted
of us not to consider the extremes of all possibilities
both pleasant and unpleasant. We make choices, react to those
choices and hope we accurately assess risk, return on investment
and consequences.
I suggest that an investment that won't take the family
out to McDonald's offers an attractive and often demonstrated
return with very low risk.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: What's My Contribution Used For? |
I can only say that my contribution is a real bargin.? There is so much useful
information on this and the other associated lists.? Thanks, Bob, for all the
time you put into this.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
Sent: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 8:56 am
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What's My Contribution Used For?
?
At 10:31 AM 11/17/2008 -0500, you wrote:?
>?
>Dumb question,?
>?
>Why not get rid of the expensive 20 year old T1 technology and get high?
>speed cable for $100.00 /month? Are you married to the vendor? Storage?
>is cheap. I recently bought a Terabyte of storage for $130.00 that I can?
>carry in my hand. I can also store it off-site for a lot less money?
>because I don't need to crate tapes and other space consuming items?
>around. It's not like your serving up streaming video, this is just text?
>and a few pictures. Further, do you really have a requirement to provide?
>the public domain with guaranteed backups? Who is going to sue you if?
>you lose a year or two??
?
? This isn't about hardware and connectivity, it's about $time$?
? and the willingness of folks with extra-ordinary abilities?
? and resources to support an activity that otherwise would?
? not exist.?
?
? How many folks have Matt's $time$, skills, resources and?
? enthusiasm for this activity? If it were cheap/easy, everybody?
? would be doing it. Given that $time$ is the rudimentary?
? commodity of exchange amongst free-market participants,?
? how many $hours$ were not wasted because the short?
? path to success was freely offered on the List? How?
? many such $hours$ were made available for more productive?
? efforts because of ideas shared on the List? Where?
? else can you get nearly instantaneous like-minded?
? individuals located anywhere on the surface of the?
? planet??
?
? It's an honorable free-market decision for everyone who?
? participates on Matt's lists. One can free-load for ever,?
? and nobody is going to kick them off the List. At the same?
? time there is always risk that Matt will find the demans?
? on $time$ too great for his skills, resources and willingness?
? to to bear. I'm not suggesting that Matt is approaching?
? anything a tipping point . . . but it would be short-sighted?
? of us not to consider the extremes of all possibilities?
? both pleasant and unpleasant. We make choices, react to those?
? choices and hope we accurately assess risk, return on investment?
? and consequences.?
?
? I suggest that an investment that won't take the family?
? out to McDonald's offers an attractive and often demonstrated?
? return with very low risk.?
?
? Bob . . .?
?
?
?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Choosing Z-Diagram base |
Two questions on Z13-8...
I like the design. My engine comes with an 80 amp internally regulated
alternator. Assuming its use, but not yet needing 80 amps (may add
air-conditioning later), may I reduce the current at the ANL using say,
a 50 amp ANL? I am assuming the shunt would be 80 AMP coming off the
Alt.
Does B & C offer a product to monitor/switch (from DC Power Master sw)
an alternator that is already internally regulated?
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
longg@pjm.com
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Choosing Z-Diagram base
Et al,
Thanks for your suggestions. My e-bus load will easily fall below 8A
with one ignition and one Dynon running. The Z-13/8 may be a great
opportunity to save weight, money and still keep the lights on. Other
than the dual electronic ignition my system has no special requirements.
I'll check it out.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Choosing Z-Diagram base
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 03:07 PM 11/12/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I am building a system which will contain a Lycoming 360 with dual
>electronic ignition and one alternator.
>
>I have looked at Z-12, Z-19 and Z-28 as an addendum.
>
>Which one or combination of these diagrams would support a good
>solution? I read somewhere in the pages that dual electronic ignition
>would best be served by two batteries.
. . . that statement is pretty old . . . when folks
were still installing a lot of vacuum pumps. Do you
plan a vacuum system or all electric?
If all electric, have you done a load analysis to
see how much power you need for comfortable completion
of flight with the main alternator out? You mentioned
Z-12 but consider also, Z-13/8. This is an exceedingly
light and inexpensive way to make sure you have electrons
to keep an engine running. I suspect you can trim an
e-bus load down to 8A or less. Keep in mind too that
you don't need to run both electronic ignitions all
the time. During alternator-out operations, you can
drop to one ignition with very little loss of performance
which still holds a second system in reserve.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Electronic ignition reliability |
Yeah I got about 300 on mine and there were some early problems but I think they
have those licked now.
Frank
RV7a IO360 (mogas with 10% ETOH)
no.com>
Hi Ed
I'm just a new one. I've only got 20 hours on the bird since new and I
have upgraded the ignition units at every opportunity. I was going to use the
Light speed ign. units but went with the E-Magair system.
Time will tell but I'm very happy with the service and so far zero problems. Since
they are going for certification for regular aircraft,
they are not going to be a fly by night supplier. There are some units
out there with a lot more time than mine naturally. I am not sure who has the
greatest time but I would not be surprised if it were over 500 hours.
Jim
Message 10
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| Subject: | Electronic ignition reliability |
Frank,
Which injection unit are you using. I also have an IO-360 and
AFP injection and would like to use mogas but with the ethanol issue, I
have not been anxious to try it.
Jim
____________________________________________________________
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Electronic ignition reliability |
I am using the AFP unit which is compatible with 100% and any mixture therof.
I also built a vapour lock proof fuel system in that both of my electric fuel pumps are in the wingroots..If you do a search under the username "Frankh" at www.vansairforce.net you will see how I built it.
The problem areas will be the fuel drain O rings (easily swapped to florosilicone),
the viton fuel cap oring (I fly negative G acro and so far seems to be fine
but also easily swapped) and the meachanical fuel pump..As I don't have a mechanical
fuel pump that issue solved itself.
There is rumour the mech fuel pump diaphram won't like ethanol but I have no way
to prove this one way or the other.
Frank
RV7a IO360, with 10%ETOH
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James H Nelson
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronic ignition reliability
--> <rv9jim@juno.com>
Frank,
Which injection unit are you using. I also have an IO-360 and AFP injection
and would like to use mogas but with the ethanol issue, I have not been
anxious to try it.
Jim
Message 12
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| Subject: | Christmas Tree project for EAA |
Willow,
Thank you, thank you thank you! for volunteering to help out on this by
contacting the growers.
I have attached information on Young Eagles as well as a list of tree
growers with contact info. I am sending a copy of this note to Keith
Pugh and Henry Pflegl and they may have additional info to add or may
suggest changes in what I have written.
We have an offer of 50 trees from Dan Green (not on the list), so that's
a start.
The most we can handle is probably about 250 more.
I can see a couple ways we can approach this. One is to make contact
soon, so they can keep us in mind and think about what they are going to
do with left over trees, if they have any. Then we call back around
December 1 when all the trees have been shipped. The second way is to
just call once, around December 1.
Some growers will hold on to left over trees, hoping they will find a
local buyer (retailer) who needs more trees. Others may just want to
get done with the project and will be willing to let us have them right
away so we can start selling the first weekend in December.
Growers need to understand certain things:
We are asking for a donation of trees, not looking to buy--we don't have
any money.
We are a non-profit.
We don't expect we can handle more than 250 more trees and we will be
contacting multiple growers. Any number of trees up to 250 is good and
we are grateful. But if grower A offers 25, that's wonderful, and if
grower B offers 50 we can't handle more than 175 from grower C even if
he offers 250.
We are hoping for /baled/ trees. On the other hand, beggars can't be
choosers, so we'll take what we can get. Most trees left over are
baled, so this will probably not be an issue.
The grower doesn't have to do anything beyond giving us permission and
access to the trees. We'll pick up and haul.
Either nobles or Doug firs are OK.
If you have any questions, please feel free to call.
Dick Scott
503-630-4739
Message 13
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| Subject: | Soldering fat wires |
I just started attempting to solder terminals onto several 4awg wires. I'm
using welding cable and one of those little butane torches.
I am attempting to use the techniques n Bob's article. However, when I
apply the solder, it seems to wick along the cable, up to two inches past
the terminal. It seems to run on the inside, without saturating the outside
of the butt end.
The second time I tried it I was more careful to apply the solder around the
perimeter of the wire, but still had the same result.
Is this normal, or is it just me?
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lessons Learned, Lessons Forgotten, Tools for |
Sharing
Jim,
Come back in 500 hours and tell us about how fabulous they are. 20 hours ain't
nothing in light of the reliability problems they're having.
Henador Titzoff
----- Original Message ----
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 10:52:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lessons Learned, Lessons Forgotten, Tools for Sharing
Hernando,
I'm in my Phase one and have 20 hours on them. My engine starts
quickly and I love the timing method if you have to remove them for any
updating.
Jim
____________________________________________________________
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Soldering fat wires |
Hi Sam,
I found a technique that works pretty well. Several companies have little
solder and flux slugs that fit right down into the terminal. Then, you heat
the terminal until the solder melts, push in the wire and keep heating until
you have good solder flow. Let it cool, apply the heat shrink to the outside
and there you are.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
In a message dated 11/17/2008 4:15:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
sam.hoskins@gmail.com writes:
I just started attempting to solder terminals onto several 4awg wires. I'm
using welding cable and one of those little butane torches.
I am attempting to use the techniques n Bob's article. However, when I
apply the solder, it seems to wick along the cable, up to two inches past the
terminal. It seems to run on the inside, without saturating the outside of the
butt end.
The second time I tried it I was more careful to apply the solder around the
perimeter of the wire, but still had the same result.
Is this normal, or is it just me?
Sam Hoskins
_www.samhoskins.blogspot.com_ (http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com/)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
Message 16
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| Subject: | What wire to use for pitch servo |
I need to wire my Ray Allen servo on my Europa. I think it's a T3 servo,
has 5 wires.
I don't mind working with very small wires. Will install a connector at
servo. Will run servo wiring on port side, and antennas on starboard.
What suggestions on wire to use?
Some options:
****Ray Allen sells 5 color coded 26 gauge that is not twisted:
WC2 ... 5 WIRE TEFLON INSTALLATION CABLE
We highly recommend using this wire cable for Ray Allen trim
installations. It consists of 5 separate color coded, 26 gauge, 19 strand,
silver coated, DuPont FEP Teflon insulated wires inside a tough, all
Teflon sheathing. This wire cable will easily last the lifetime of your
airframe. The cable is .140 inch (3.5 mm) in diameter.
****Stein Air sells 7 conductor twisted tefzel servo wire, consisting of 5
of 22 gauge and 2 of 20 gauge.
Can remove 2 of the 20 and have 5 of 22 left, or remove 2 of the 22 and
have 2 of 20 and 3 of 22 left
****Aircraft Spruce sells 24 gauge and 22 gauge tefzel wire.
Options:
5 of 24
3 of 24 and 2 of 22
Twist or not twist?
Thanking you in advance.
Ron Parigoris
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