AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 11/22/08


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:52 AM - LOC (Matt Dralle)
     1. 07:10 AM - Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (dksington)
     2. 08:33 AM - Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 08:42 AM - Re: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 08:59 AM - Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (dksington)
     6. 09:48 AM - Re: Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy ()
     7. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT (Iberplanes IGL)
     8. 11:30 AM - F.S. Silver plated 2 AWG wire (Sam Hoskins)
     9. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:52:11 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: LOC
    Dear Listers, Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics Email Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 07:10:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up
    From: "dksington" <derek@sington.net>
    On this topic (kind of), I have a S701-2 but now am only going down the single Alt route. Do I need to remove the extra diodes for it to work properly as (effectively) a S701-1? I presume that they are the same internally. Many thanks, Derek Sington RV-7 Finishing Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215737#215737


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:33:51 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy
    >>Hi Bob. Love your book. Thank you. I'm pleased that you find it a good value. >> On page 17-9 dealing with the SD-8 Alt, second column, second >> paragraph. I assume you would want to open the battery cont, >> close the E-bus alt feed switch and close the SD-8alt control >> relay (same as aux alt off/on swithch on Z-13 to on?)ONLY if the >> main alt fails as mentioned in the next para? Yes. That was the original intent. E-bus alt feed is closed before you turn off the battery master for the purpose of load shedding during battery-only operations. To avoid having the e-bus go down during the changeover, you turn on alternate-feed first, battery master off next. SD-8 can go on at any time in the sequence. Now assuming that an SD-8 is installed, it may be brought on to support e-bus loads thus saving all the battery's stored energy to support approach to landing were the battery master is turned back on and other equipment items are added to the system loads. >> Then will the SD-8 just be supplying pwr to charge the battery, >> or will it directly be supplying pwr to the essential bus because >> it is supplying more volts? It's a reasonable assumption that the battery was fully charged when the main alternator failed. There is no need for the SD-8 to "charge" the battery . . . it needs to support e-bus loads so as to NOT discharge the battery. As long as the SD-8 output remains above 12.7 volts or so, the battery will not contribute to operation of e-bus loads . . . i.e. is held in reserve. >> Someone told me he flies around with his SD-8 aux alt switch on >> all the time so there will never be a situation where there is no >> missing pwr to the field to get it to work. I don't think that is >> the correct way is it? With the SD-8, is it best to assume the >> endurance bus should not exceed about 7 amps (just under the 8)? He doesn't understand the equipment installed aboard his aircraft and has not crafted a Plan-A/Plan-B operating protocol based on understanding. His concerns for keeping the SD-8 "alive" are unfounded. First, the SD8 doesn't have an externally excited field. Second, assuming he has an active notification of low voltage (LV warning light) then the changeover from Plan-A to Plan-B after main alternator failure is a no-big-rush deal. The battery is sitting there substantially topped off and will run things nicely for some time . . . he could finish unwrapping his stick of gum and properly stow the wrapper before making the change. The SD-8 can be loaded to as much as 10A at cruise rpm without sagging below the 12.8 volt levels that begins to load the battery. There are no hard and fast "rules" about operations with the SD-8. Back before we installed SD-8's on a handy, vacated vacuum pump pad we sized AND MAINTAINED batteries for the purpose of supporting e-bus loads to meet design goals. If the builder's design goals call for battery-only endurance to be equal to fuel endurance, then the options for battery-only ops were constrained by trade-offs for battery size versus endurance loads. Once a second engine driven power source is added, one may use ALL the capability of this source without taxing the battery. However, let us assume that endurance loads need to be 12 amps. Okay, 10A from the SD-8 and 2A from the battery. This formula for achieving comfortable termination of flight is still quite attractive. You make your own rules based on load analysis and design goals for operating YOUR CHOICE of endurance mode accessories and planning on how you'll supply that energy. >> And finally, what is the best way to tie in dual LSEs and the >> SD-8 together? Thank you very much. David Buntin Run each ignition from the battery bus on it's own fuse. Run only one ignition during endurance mode operations. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:33:51 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up
    At 09:09 AM 11/22/2008, you wrote: > >On this topic (kind of), I have a S701-2 but now am only going down >the single Alt route. Do I need to remove the extra diodes for it >to work properly as (effectively) a S701-1? I presume that they >are the same internally. Correct. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:42:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT
    At 11:04 AM 11/21/2008, you wrote: >My questions are: > > >A. Due to the crazy airframe, it is not uncommon to pull the >engine at annual inspection time. What would be the best >connector to use? Could I use a D-sub? The connection to the >D180 is a 25 pin D-sub. A d-sub with MACHINED crimped pins is fine. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_20AWG_Pin.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_20AWG_Socket.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_4-quad-crimp.jpg >B. For temperature accuracy purposes, would it be better to > position the connector forward or aft of the firewall? > The most convienient would be forward. Forward is fine. Just don't mount the connector THROUGH the firewall with an expectation of maintaining firewall integrity. I'd recommend you wrap the mated pair of connectors with silicone self-fusing tape to help keep them clean in service. These are NOT environmentally robust with respect to dirt, oils, etc. Alternatively, you could consider a mil-spec connector like the MS3470 series. These can be installed with the same crimp tool as the d-subs if you manually position the pins in the tool. But a mated set in low quantities will cost you about $50. The d-subs wrapped with silicone tape is the more economical. Effects on thermocouple readings will be small and insignificant. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:59:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up
    From: "dksington" <derek@sington.net>
    Thank you for the swift reply, but would you mind clarifying? Am I correct in assuming that I need to remove the diodes (in which case the photo of the S-701-1 on B&C's website seems to show only one diode with just a wire going from the side contactor to the front contactor. http://www.bandc.biz/s701-1l.jpg Or can I simply leave the S701-2 as-is? Sorry to be a pain! Many thanks, Derek Sington. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215759#215759


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:48:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Bob, Thanks for updating our thinking. I too am going through this installation. Just to re-iterate the flow.. Low voltage condition or other on primary alt, so... 1. Switch main DC Power from Alt to Bat. 2. Shed un-necessary load. 2. Close the Alt E-Bus Feed switch. 2. Switch main DC Power from Bat to Off. 2. Switch on the Aux Alt SD-8 (After storing gum wrappers). 4. Fly to a safe place. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> >>Hi Bob. Love your book. Thank you. I'm pleased that you find it a good value. >> On page 17-9 dealing with the SD-8 Alt, second column, second >> paragraph. I assume you would want to open the battery cont, >> close the E-bus alt feed switch and close the SD-8alt control >> relay (same as aux alt off/on swithch on Z-13 to on?)ONLY if the >> main alt fails as mentioned in the next para? Yes. That was the original intent. E-bus alt feed is closed before you turn off the battery master for the purpose of load shedding during battery-only operations. To avoid having the e-bus go down during the changeover, you turn on alternate-feed first, battery master off next. SD-8 can go on at any time in the sequence. Now assuming that an SD-8 is installed, it may be brought on to support e-bus loads thus saving all the battery's stored energy to support approach to landing were the battery master is turned back on and other equipment items are added to the system loads. >> Then will the SD-8 just be supplying pwr to charge the battery, >> or will it directly be supplying pwr to the essential bus because >> it is supplying more volts? It's a reasonable assumption that the battery was fully charged when the main alternator failed. There is no need for the SD-8 to "charge" the battery . . . it needs to support e-bus loads so as to NOT discharge the battery. As long as the SD-8 output remains above 12.7 volts or so, the battery will not contribute to operation of e-bus loads . . . i.e. is held in reserve. >> Someone told me he flies around with his SD-8 aux alt switch on >> all the time so there will never be a situation where there is no >> missing pwr to the field to get it to work. I don't think that is >> the correct way is it? With the SD-8, is it best to assume the >> endurance bus should not exceed about 7 amps (just under the 8)? He doesn't understand the equipment installed aboard his aircraft and has not crafted a Plan-A/Plan-B operating protocol based on understanding. His concerns for keeping the SD-8 "alive" are unfounded. First, the SD8 doesn't have an externally excited field. Second, assuming he has an active notification of low voltage (LV warning light) then the changeover from Plan-A to Plan-B after main alternator failure is a no-big-rush deal. The battery is sitting there substantially topped off and will run things nicely for some time . . . he could finish unwrapping his stick of gum and properly stow the wrapper before making the change. The SD-8 can be loaded to as much as 10A at cruise rpm without sagging below the 12.8 volt levels that begins to load the battery. There are no hard and fast "rules" about operations with the SD-8. Back before we installed SD-8's on a handy, vacated vacuum pump pad we sized AND MAINTAINED batteries for the purpose of supporting e-bus loads to meet design goals. If the builder's design goals call for battery-only endurance to be equal to fuel endurance, then the options for battery-only ops were constrained by trade-offs for battery size versus endurance loads. Once a second engine driven power source is added, one may use ALL the capability of this source without taxing the battery. However, let us assume that endurance loads need to be 12 amps. Okay, 10A from the SD-8 and 2A from the battery. This formula for achieving comfortable termination of flight is still quite attractive. You make your own rules based on load analysis and design goals for operating YOUR CHOICE of endurance mode accessories and planning on how you'll supply that energy. >> And finally, what is the best way to tie in dual LSEs and the >> SD-8 together? Thank you very much. David Buntin Run each ignition from the battery bus on it's own fuse. Run only one ignition during endurance mode operations. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:16:02 AM PST US
    From: "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT
    si claro. Si Marta me deja sacar fotos pues lo har=E9, sino no pasa nada. Rercuerda que no tengo ganas de crear problemas ni mucho menos lastimar sentimientos de esta gente, que es bastante trajico todo. un abrazo 2008/11/21 rampil <ira.rampil@gmail.com> > > Hi Sam, > > If you are talking about a connector on the firewall, use a metal > circular connector i.e., AMP. Do not use a a db submini for three > reasons: They are not deep enough to pass through most firewalls, > they provide no thermal insulation and are not rated for constant hi temp > environment, and they are not gas tight against carbon monoxide etc. > > AMP makes special pins for TC connections, but I have never seen > anyone ever use them. Just live with the relatively tiny errors due to > the extra junction > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215559#215559 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:30:46 AM PST US
    From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@gmail.com>
    Subject: F.S. Silver plated 2 AWG wire
    Please forgive the shameless plug. 25 feet of 2AWG silver plated wire I bought this a while back and decided not to use it. Selling it for what I paid for. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190268745419


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:04:00 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up
    At 10:58 AM 11/22/2008, you wrote: > >Thank you for the swift reply, but would you mind clarifying? Am I >correct in assuming that I need to remove the diodes (in which case >the photo of the S-701-1 on B&C's website seems to show only one >diode with just a wire going from the side contactor to the front contactor. > >http://www.bandc.biz/s701-1l.jpg > >Or can I simply leave the S701-2 as-is? Wire per the schematics and pictures. You need a jumper and one diode for a battery contactor. Bob . . . Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------




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