Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:52 AM - LOC (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:10 AM - Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (dksington)
2. 08:33 AM - Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:42 AM - Re: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:59 AM - Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (dksington)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy ()
7. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT (Iberplanes IGL)
8. 11:30 AM - F.S. Silver plated 2 AWG wire (Sam Hoskins)
9. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
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Dear Listers,
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I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
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Subject: | Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up |
On this topic (kind of), I have a S701-2 but now am only going down the single
Alt route. Do I need to remove the extra diodes for it to work properly as (effectively)
a S701-1? I presume that they are the same internally.
Many thanks,
Derek Sington
RV-7 Finishing
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215737#215737
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Subject: | Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy |
>>Hi Bob. Love your book.
Thank you. I'm pleased that you find it a good value.
>> On page 17-9 dealing with the SD-8 Alt, second column, second
>> paragraph. I assume you would want to open the battery cont,
>> close the E-bus alt feed switch and close the SD-8alt control
>> relay (same as aux alt off/on swithch on Z-13 to on?)ONLY if the
>> main alt fails as mentioned in the next para?
Yes. That was the original intent. E-bus alt feed is closed before
you turn off the battery master for the purpose of load shedding
during battery-only operations. To avoid having the e-bus go down
during the changeover, you turn on alternate-feed first, battery
master off next. SD-8 can go on at any time in the sequence.
Now assuming that an SD-8 is installed, it may be brought on
to support e-bus loads thus saving all the battery's stored
energy to support approach to landing were the battery master
is turned back on and other equipment items are added to
the system loads.
>> Then will the SD-8 just be supplying pwr to charge the battery,
>> or will it directly be supplying pwr to the essential bus because
>> it is supplying more volts?
It's a reasonable assumption that the battery was fully
charged when the main alternator failed. There is no need
for the SD-8 to "charge" the battery . . . it needs to support
e-bus loads so as to NOT discharge the battery. As long as
the SD-8 output remains above 12.7 volts or so, the battery
will not contribute to operation of e-bus loads . . . i.e.
is held in reserve.
>> Someone told me he flies around with his SD-8 aux alt switch on
>> all the time so there will never be a situation where there is no
>> missing pwr to the field to get it to work. I don't think that is
>> the correct way is it? With the SD-8, is it best to assume the
>> endurance bus should not exceed about 7 amps (just under the 8)?
He doesn't understand the equipment installed aboard
his aircraft and has not crafted a Plan-A/Plan-B
operating protocol based on understanding.
His concerns for keeping the SD-8 "alive" are unfounded.
First, the SD8 doesn't have an externally excited field.
Second, assuming he has an active notification of low
voltage (LV warning light) then the changeover from
Plan-A to Plan-B after main alternator failure is
a no-big-rush deal. The battery is sitting there
substantially topped off and will run things nicely
for some time . . . he could finish unwrapping his
stick of gum and properly stow the wrapper before
making the change.
The SD-8 can be loaded to as much as 10A at cruise
rpm without sagging below the 12.8 volt levels that
begins to load the battery. There are no hard and fast
"rules" about operations with the SD-8. Back before
we installed SD-8's on a handy, vacated vacuum pump
pad we sized AND MAINTAINED batteries for the purpose
of supporting e-bus loads to meet design goals.
If the builder's design goals call for battery-only
endurance to be equal to fuel endurance, then the
options for battery-only ops were constrained
by trade-offs for battery size versus endurance
loads.
Once a second engine driven power source is added,
one may use ALL the capability of this source
without taxing the battery. However, let us
assume that endurance loads need to be 12 amps.
Okay, 10A from the SD-8 and 2A from the battery.
This formula for achieving comfortable termination
of flight is still quite attractive.
You make your own rules based on load analysis and design
goals for operating YOUR CHOICE of endurance mode accessories
and planning on how you'll supply that energy.
>> And finally, what is the best way to tie in dual LSEs and the
>> SD-8 together? Thank you very much. David Buntin
Run each ignition from the battery bus on it's
own fuse. Run only one ignition during endurance
mode operations.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up |
At 09:09 AM 11/22/2008, you wrote:
>
>On this topic (kind of), I have a S701-2 but now am only going down
>the single Alt route. Do I need to remove the extra diodes for it
>to work properly as (effectively) a S701-1? I presume that they
>are the same internally.
Correct.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT |
At 11:04 AM 11/21/2008, you wrote:
>My questions are:
>
>
>A. Due to the crazy airframe, it is not uncommon to pull the
>engine at annual inspection time. What would be the best
>connector to use? Could I use a D-sub? The connection to the
>D180 is a 25 pin D-sub.
A d-sub with MACHINED crimped pins is fine.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_20AWG_Pin.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_20AWG_Socket.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_4-quad-crimp.jpg
>B. For temperature accuracy purposes, would it be better to
> position the connector forward or aft of the firewall?
> The most convienient would be forward.
Forward is fine. Just don't mount the connector
THROUGH the firewall with an expectation of
maintaining firewall integrity. I'd recommend
you wrap the mated pair of connectors with silicone
self-fusing tape to help keep them clean in service.
These are NOT environmentally robust with respect
to dirt, oils, etc.
Alternatively, you could consider a mil-spec
connector like the MS3470 series. These can be
installed with the same crimp tool as the d-subs
if you manually position the pins in the tool.
But a mated set in low quantities will cost you
about $50. The d-subs wrapped with silicone tape
is the more economical.
Effects on thermocouple readings will be
small and insignificant.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up |
Thank you for the swift reply, but would you mind clarifying? Am I correct in
assuming that I need to remove the diodes (in which case the photo of the S-701-1
on B&C's website seems to show only one diode with just a wire going from
the side contactor to the front contactor.
http://www.bandc.biz/s701-1l.jpg
Or can I simply leave the S701-2 as-is?
Sorry to be a pain!
Many thanks,
Derek Sington.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215759#215759
Message 6
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Subject: | Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy |
Bob,
Thanks for updating our thinking. I too am going through this
installation.
Just to re-iterate the flow..
Low voltage condition or other on primary alt, so...
1. Switch main DC Power from Alt to Bat.
2. Shed un-necessary load.
2. Close the Alt E-Bus Feed switch.
2. Switch main DC Power from Bat to Off.
2. Switch on the Aux Alt SD-8 (After storing gum wrappers).
4. Fly to a safe place.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 design and operating philosophy
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>>Hi Bob. Love your book.
Thank you. I'm pleased that you find it a good value.
>> On page 17-9 dealing with the SD-8 Alt, second column, second
>> paragraph. I assume you would want to open the battery cont,
>> close the E-bus alt feed switch and close the SD-8alt control
>> relay (same as aux alt off/on swithch on Z-13 to on?)ONLY if the
>> main alt fails as mentioned in the next para?
Yes. That was the original intent. E-bus alt feed is closed before
you turn off the battery master for the purpose of load shedding
during battery-only operations. To avoid having the e-bus go down
during the changeover, you turn on alternate-feed first, battery
master off next. SD-8 can go on at any time in the sequence.
Now assuming that an SD-8 is installed, it may be brought on
to support e-bus loads thus saving all the battery's stored
energy to support approach to landing were the battery master
is turned back on and other equipment items are added to
the system loads.
>> Then will the SD-8 just be supplying pwr to charge the battery,
>> or will it directly be supplying pwr to the essential bus because
>> it is supplying more volts?
It's a reasonable assumption that the battery was fully
charged when the main alternator failed. There is no need
for the SD-8 to "charge" the battery . . . it needs to support
e-bus loads so as to NOT discharge the battery. As long as
the SD-8 output remains above 12.7 volts or so, the battery
will not contribute to operation of e-bus loads . . . i.e.
is held in reserve.
>> Someone told me he flies around with his SD-8 aux alt switch on
>> all the time so there will never be a situation where there is no
>> missing pwr to the field to get it to work. I don't think that is
>> the correct way is it? With the SD-8, is it best to assume the
>> endurance bus should not exceed about 7 amps (just under the 8)?
He doesn't understand the equipment installed aboard
his aircraft and has not crafted a Plan-A/Plan-B
operating protocol based on understanding.
His concerns for keeping the SD-8 "alive" are unfounded.
First, the SD8 doesn't have an externally excited field.
Second, assuming he has an active notification of low
voltage (LV warning light) then the changeover from
Plan-A to Plan-B after main alternator failure is
a no-big-rush deal. The battery is sitting there
substantially topped off and will run things nicely
for some time . . . he could finish unwrapping his
stick of gum and properly stow the wrapper before
making the change.
The SD-8 can be loaded to as much as 10A at cruise
rpm without sagging below the 12.8 volt levels that
begins to load the battery. There are no hard and fast
"rules" about operations with the SD-8. Back before
we installed SD-8's on a handy, vacated vacuum pump
pad we sized AND MAINTAINED batteries for the purpose
of supporting e-bus loads to meet design goals.
If the builder's design goals call for battery-only
endurance to be equal to fuel endurance, then the
options for battery-only ops were constrained
by trade-offs for battery size versus endurance
loads.
Once a second engine driven power source is added,
one may use ALL the capability of this source
without taxing the battery. However, let us
assume that endurance loads need to be 12 amps.
Okay, 10A from the SD-8 and 2A from the battery.
This formula for achieving comfortable termination
of flight is still quite attractive.
You make your own rules based on load analysis and design
goals for operating YOUR CHOICE of endurance mode accessories
and planning on how you'll supply that energy.
>> And finally, what is the best way to tie in dual LSEs and the
>> SD-8 together? Thank you very much. David Buntin
Run each ignition from the battery bus on it's
own fuse. Run only one ignition during endurance
mode operations.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Thermocouples connected to Dynon EGT CHT |
si claro. Si Marta me deja sacar fotos pues lo har=E9, sino no pasa nada.
Rercuerda que no tengo ganas de crear problemas ni mucho menos lastimar
sentimientos de esta gente, que es bastante trajico todo.
un abrazo
2008/11/21 rampil <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> If you are talking about a connector on the firewall, use a metal
> circular connector i.e., AMP. Do not use a a db submini for three
> reasons: They are not deep enough to pass through most firewalls,
> they provide no thermal insulation and are not rated for constant hi temp
> environment, and they are not gas tight against carbon monoxide etc.
>
> AMP makes special pins for TC connections, but I have never seen
> anyone ever use them. Just live with the relatively tiny errors due to
> the extra junction
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215559#215559
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 8
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Subject: | F.S. Silver plated 2 AWG wire |
Please forgive the shameless plug.
25 feet of 2AWG silver plated wire
I bought this a while back and decided not to use it. Selling it for what I
paid for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190268745419
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: S7701-1 battery contactor hook-up |
At 10:58 AM 11/22/2008, you wrote:
>
>Thank you for the swift reply, but would you mind clarifying? Am I
>correct in assuming that I need to remove the diodes (in which case
>the photo of the S-701-1 on B&C's website seems to show only one
>diode with just a wire going from the side contactor to the front contactor.
>
>http://www.bandc.biz/s701-1l.jpg
>
>Or can I simply leave the S701-2 as-is?
Wire per the schematics and pictures. You need
a jumper and one diode for a battery contactor.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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