Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:10 AM - Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:36 AM - Re: Failed Contactor? (RALPH HOOVER)
2. 08:55 AM - Re: Circuit lesson (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Failed contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:01 AM - Re: RFI problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: E-Bus Alternate Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:14 AM - Re: Choosing Z-Diagram base (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: E-Bus Alternate Switch (Henry Trzeciakowski)
8. 06:02 PM - 12/24V systems (D Fritz)
9. 07:29 PM - Re: Failed Contactor (Emrath)
10. 08:03 PM - Re: 12/24V systems (Bruce Gray)
11. 11:04 PM - Re: 12/24V systems (n801bh@netzero.com)
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Subject: | Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means three things:..
1) Today I am now officially 45 years old...
2) It marks that last "official" day of this year's List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and
no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support
their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way
to keep the List bills paid.
I will be posting the List of Contributors next week so make sure your name is
on it!
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly
appreciated.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Failed Contactor? |
Marty,
Just to amplify what Bob has said.
A simple troubleshooting technique is as follows.
(Ground to operate circuit as in Master Contactor)
1. (Switch off) Measure from Ground to either small terminal should be
Battery voltage.
2. If 0 on both terminals battery supply is missing. If 0 on only one
terminal then the coil is open.
3. (Switch on) If both terminals are battery voltage the ground circuit
through the switch is open.
4. If one is battery and one is 0 then the contactor should operate. (If not
the coil is suspect).
5. If the coil is suspect measure it's DC resistance with an ohmmeter (I
imagine less than 100 ohms is good, It will probably be OK or open to very
high resistance, If shorted expect smoke)
6. As an aside a 12V test lamp between the ground side of the contactor and
battery ground should glow if the supply voltage is present, the coil is OK
and the switch is off. With the switch on it will go off if the ground
circuit is OK.
Reading the voltage across the contactor coil verified that there is no
voltage drop and thus no operation but it doesn't tell you what part of the
circuit is open. Measuring to the battery ground tells you exactly what is
missing.
Usually parts are reliable (although not 100%), and problems are
found in installation workmanship. Suspect bad crimps and the like. (I have
been doing electronic wiring for 45 years and I still screw-up a crimp now
and again (crimp insulation only, cut the wire, not crimped tight etc.)).
Check everything!
Happy hunting.
Ralph & Laura Hoover
RV7A N527LR
21 hours and having a ball
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Failed Contactor?
I was demonstrating my newly wired panel for family this weekend and the
contractor mysteriously dropped off line. I had my battery charger
connected to the battery and system voltage was 13.3v DC. When the master
is OFF, I'm seeing .5v between the two small contactor terminal with the
diode removed and zero volts when the master is ON, yet contactor will not
activate. All other external wiring checks out and the contractor is wired
per the B&C web site. System has been working fine up until now, any one
have ideas as to what has happened? Did the Contactor suddenly go bad?
Marty RV6A
Brentwood TN getting ready to paint!
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Circuit lesson |
At 05:58 PM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Why do we feed power to the starter contactor thru the master contactor?
>Could one run a short hot lead from the always hot terminal on the master
>contactor to the starter contactor. Thus eliminating the voltage drop and
>stress on the master contactor when starting. Interested in your comments.
>
>Marty RV-6A Brentwood TN
You've already seen a good answer to this. I would elaborate
by sharing two tense moments in OBAM aircraft where the starter
contactor stuck closed (it's the most abused contactor in the
airplane) and the battery master was not wired to shut down the
starter. In one case, the starter survived but the 17 a.h. battery
case melted. In the other case, the pilot was able to get out,
pull the cowl and disconnect the battery before anything smoked
or melted.
Type certificated aircraft have always been wired such that
EVERYTHING other than battery-bus power goes through the battery
master contactor. Turning off the battery switch gets the electrical
system the most benign condition possible.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: re: Failed contactor |
At 05:58 PM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
>
>Bob:
>
>I disconnected the diode between the terminals. With the master off, I read
>on my Fluke meter 13.34 VDC on the terminal fed from the jumper to the fat
>battery terminal. The other terminal with the ground lead to the master
>switch reads 0.47 VDC with the master off. With the master switch on,
>voltage between the two small terminals reads 13.34 VDC. I checked the
>continuity of the master wire and switch to ground and it works fine. I also
>disconnected everything and get an open circuit reading between the two
>small terminals, no resistance and no short circuit warning on my Fluke. If
>you ask me, the small internal coil on the contractor has failed open. Does
>this seem possible with a new contactor?
ANYTHING is possible. Your measurements do indicate that
the contactor coil is indeed open. It would be interesting
to do a tear-down and find out where it broke. You should
be able to get a replacement from whoever sold it to you.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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At 10:13 AM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
><kesleyelectric@chooseblue.coop>
>
>Bob,
>
>I need to get 5-10 feet outside of the building before the reception clears
>up.
Hmmm . . . assuming it's a metal building, it seems
likely that the noise is radiating directly into
the radio through the enclosure. You stated that the
antenna was outside and would therefore expect to
see a similar benefit of shielding or distance
attenuation.
If you have several fixtures, it's probably easier
to find a radio that is more resistant to local
noises than to figure out how to filter/shield
the lamps.
As a final experiment, can you pull the antenna
coax outside and then operated the radio outside
the building while connected to the antenna coax?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: E-Bus Alternate Switch |
At 08:02 PM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
><hammer408@comcast.net>
>
>Bob:
>
>In your Z-32 Diagram, you use a 1-3 Switch - Is this a B&C S700-1-3: Single
>Pole-Double Throw ???
Yes. This presumes also that your system includes
a pullable 5A breaker for the alternator field supply.
This allows you to do ground operations battery only
by pulling the field breaker.
>My second question is:
>
>I have a Honeywell 1TL-1-2D (MS24658-22D) - Locking Single Pole-Single
>Throw that I purchased from Digi-Key and I'm wondering if that would work in
>place of the 1-3 ? If it can, then this switch has 2 terminals: #2 &
>#3..... (NO #1)....would I wire the ground to #2 and 22g from the relay to
>#3...........or do I really need to order a SPDT ?
The Honeywell switch is fine. The 1TL1-2D is OFF when
the toggle is on the key-way side. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Microswitch_TL-Series.pdf
This means that the switch would have to be installed
key-way down.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Choosing Z-Diagram base |
At 11:33 AM 11/17/2008, you wrote:
>
>Two questions on Z13-8...
>
>I like the design. My engine comes with an 80 amp internally regulated
>alternator. Assuming its use, but not yet needing 80 amps (may add
>air-conditioning later), may I reduce the current at the ANL using say,
>a 50 amp ANL? I am assuming the shunt would be 80 AMP coming off the
>Alt.
No, the ANL or any other protective device is intended to
open under extreme stress of faulting a wire. It's not
a controlling device to change or limit the effects of
your alternator.
Aside from weight and size, there's nothing wrong with
having a "too big" alternator. There's a bunch of C-150/
C-152 flying with 60A alternators! Lots of OBAM aircraft
with Continental engines use salvaged 60A alternators
from a Cessna even if their power requirements are a hand-full
of amps.
>Does B & C offer a product to monitor/switch (from DC Power Master sw)
>an alternator that is already internally regulated?
Any switch (including those sold by B&B) will control
an alternator that is controllable. Do you know the
brand and part number of the alternator supplied?
Are there instructions with it that indicate the alternator
is controllable?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: E-Bus Alternate Switch |
So Bob,
If I understand what you're saying: mount the 1TL-1-2D keyway down, #2
terminal = ground wire and #3 terminal = 22 g wire from S401 relay.....or
do I have it backwards ???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-Bus Alternate Switch
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 08:02 PM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
> ><hammer408@comcast.net>
> >
> >Bob:
> >
> >In your Z-32 Diagram, you use a 1-3 Switch - Is this a B&C S700-1-3:
Single
> >Pole-Double Throw ???
>
> Yes. This presumes also that your system includes
> a pullable 5A breaker for the alternator field supply.
> This allows you to do ground operations battery only
> by pulling the field breaker.
> >My second question is:
> >
> >I have a Honeywell 1TL-1-2D (MS24658-22D) - Locking Single Pole-Single
> >Throw that I purchased from Digi-Key and I'm wondering if that would work
in
> >place of the 1-3 ? If it can, then this switch has 2 terminals: #2 &
> >#3..... (NO #1)....would I wire the ground to #2 and 22g from the relay
to
> >#3...........or do I really need to order a SPDT ?
>
> The Honeywell switch is fine. The 1TL1-2D is OFF when
> the toggle is on the key-way side. See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/Microswitch_TL-Series.pdf
>
> This means that the switch would have to be installed
> key-way down.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 8
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Hello all, I'm building a Velocity with a Deltahawk Diesel engine.- This
engine requires 24 volts to start, so I'm planing a 24 V system.- Most ev
erything I'm installing is able to handle 24V without any problem; however,
the hydraulic pump and associated circuitry that raise the gear are design
ed for 12V, so I'll need a 12V bus.- I've been looking at battery equaliz
ers as a way to feed this bus from a center tap while not causing a battery
imbalance.- There are several different models out there, primarily aime
d at RVs, big rigs, and solar electric battery banks.
Does anyone have experience with these units?- Any recommendations on the
best unit for use in an aircraft I probably need a 10 or 20 A unit)?- Al
so, what kind of failure modes do I need to prepare for in architecting a s
ystem using these.- Finally, will having one of these units allow me to e
ffectively charge both batteries using a 12V battery charger (this isn't te
rribly important, but nice to know).
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dan
=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Failed Contactor |
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll call Todd at B&C tomorrow about
this.
Marty
Subject: Re: re: Failed contactor
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckolls.bob@cox.net)
At 05:58 PM 11/29/2008, you wrote:
>
>Bob:
>
>I disconnected the diode between the terminals. With the master off, I
read
>on my Fluke meter 13.34 VDC on the terminal fed from the jumper to the fat
>battery terminal. The other terminal with the ground lead to the master
>switch reads 0.47 VDC with the master off. With the master switch on,
>voltage between the two small terminals reads 13.34 VDC. I checked the
>continuity of the master wire and switch to ground and it works fine. I
also
>disconnected everything and get an open circuit reading between the two
>small terminals, no resistance and no short circuit warning on my Fluke.
If
>you ask me, the small internal coil on the contractor has failed open.
Does
>this seem possible with a new contactor?
ANYTHING is possible. Your measurements do indicate that
the contactor coil is indeed open. It would be interesting
to do a tear-down and find out where it broke. You should
be able to get a replacement from whoever sold it to you.
Bob . . .
Marty
Message 10
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I'll ask the obvious. Have you contacted the vendor who makes the
hydraulic
pump to see if a 24v version is available. If the pump is made by
Oildyne,
I'm sure a 28v version can be had. Same with relays.
Bruce
<http://www.glasair.org/> www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D
Fritz
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12/24V systems
Hello all, I'm building a Velocity with a Deltahawk Diesel engine. This
engine requires 24 volts to start, so I'm planing a 24 V system. Most
everything I'm installing is able to handle 24V without any problem;
however, the hydraulic pump and associated circuitry that raise the gear
are
designed for 12V, so I'll need a 12V bus. I've been looking at battery
equalizers as a way to feed this bus from a center tap while not causing
a
battery imbalance. There are several different models out there,
primarily
aimed at RVs, big rigs, and solar electric battery banks.
Does anyone have experience with these units? Any recommendations on
the
best unit for use in an aircraft I probably need a 10 or 20 A unit)?
Also,
what kind of failure modes do I need to prepare for in architecting a
system
using these. Finally, will having one of these units allow me to
effectively charge both batteries using a 12V battery charger (this
isn't
terribly important, but nice to know).
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dan
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Message 11
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I think his biggest obstacle will be actually obtaining a DeltaHawk engi
ne, <G>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org> wrote:
I'll ask the obvious. Have you contacted the vendor who makes the hydrau
lic pump to see if a 24v version is available. If the pump is made by Oi
ldyne, I'm sure a 28v version can be had. Same with relays. Bruce
www.Glasair.org
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:of
fice" />
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroele
ctric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D Fritz
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:59 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12/24V systems
Hello all, I'm building a Velocity with a Deltahawk Diesel engine. This
engine requires 24 volts to start, so I'm planing a 24 V system. Most
everything I'm installing is able to handle 24V without any problem; how
ever, the hydraulic pump and associated circuitry that raise the gear ar
e designed for 12V, so I'll need a 12V bus. I've been looking at batter
y equalizers as a way to feed this bus from a center tap while not causi
ng a battery imbalance. There are several different models out there, p
rimarily aimed at RVs, big rigs, and solar electric battery banks.
Does anyone have experience with these units? Any recommendations on th
e best unit for use in an aircraft I probably need a 10 or 20 A unit)?
Also, what kind of failure modes do I need to prepare for in architectin
g a system using these. Finally, will having one of these units allow m
e to effectively charge both batteries using a 12V battery charger (this
isn't terribly important, but nice to know).
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dan
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