---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/03/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:05 AM - Re: Where to find closed-end lugs for Super-CCA cable (Eric M. Jones) 2. 07:42 AM - Re: breaker specs (Ron Quillin) 3. 08:02 AM - Re: breaker specs (Jay Hyde) 4. 09:54 AM - Re: breaker specs (Joe Ronco) 5. 11:25 AM - Re: Heavy Duty E-Bis Diode (Eric M. Jones) 6. 03:42 PM - Does the Alternator shut down if battery power is removed? (MauleDriver) 7. 08:29 PM - Re: 12/24V systems12/24V systems (D Fritz) 8. 09:12 PM - Re: breaker specs (B Tomm) 9. 09:37 PM - Re: 12/24V systems12/24V systems (n801bh@netzero.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Where to find closed-end lugs for Super-CCA cable From: "Eric M. Jones" You can get the closed end version from marine supply: http://www.boatersworld.com/product/199323221msk.htm The "Super-2-CCA" takes a 1/0 AWG (one-aught) connector and the "Super-4-CCA" take a 2 AWG connector, because CCA cable is slightly larger than the copper sizes. I have been selling a lot of this CCA cable recently, and SteinAir is distributing the Super-2-CCA. We sell a lot of this in custom sizes to NASCAR and Indy racers, as well as some military aircraft builders. The Tesla electric car also uses it. The NASCAR guys are super-secretive about the material--demanding no markings on the insulation or on the spools! "...Beans for supper tonight, six o'clock. Navy beans cooked in Oklahoma ham... Got to eat 'em with a spoon, raw onions and cornbread; nothing else...." --Will Rogers -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217478#217478 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs From: Ron Quillin Try here: http://www.sensata.com/ Ron Q. At 22:35 12/2/2008, you wrote: >Bob, et al > >I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this >case). I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from >Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc. Can you suggest a source? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:38 AM PST US From: "Jay Hyde" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs Just as a general note on electrical protection; the trip times that you mention for such an overload (in the region of 150-250%) are perfectly acceptable; an overload condition should not produce a quick response, but allow the system time to shed the overload if it is a transient condition (starting for example). If there is a fault that generates a high current then the protection element (cct breaker) should trip much faster. In large power electrical systems this is called an IDMT characteristic (Inverse Definite Mean Time); in a small CB this characteristic is attained by use of a bi-metallic strip that heats up slowly during an overload; once past a certain limit the circuit is opened using clever spring thingie arrangements.. ;-) When a large current is passed the strip heats a lot faster causing the faster trip. The circuit that you are feeding should be able to handle the overload condition for that period of time without damage, itll just heat up. Incidentally, that is why there is an earth (or ground) in electrical systems- it is there to create a defined return path to the power source that will create a good solid and DETECTABLE fault. Once detected it can be cleared. Thats another reason to make sure that metal skins are well bonded (electrically- that is, they are electrically continuous) in an aircraft, so that if a positive wire rubs through somewhere it must find a good return path to the negative terminal of the battery as soon as possible. That way the fault can be detected and isolated by your cleverly designed reticulation system and fuses/ breakers :-) Fuses have similar characteristics; they also rely on heat generated by conducted current.. Jay ________________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: 03 December 2008 08:36 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs Bob, et al I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this case). I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc. Can you suggest a source? I'm beginning to think Klixon is not a manufacture's name but just a product name. Still, Ishould be able to find performance specs online though, no? Relevance: Due to space and design goals, I am incorporating fuse blocksand some breakers (Klixon) into my panel (RV7A). However, I have just recently discovered another type of breaker that I'm sure you're aware of, namely the switch/breaker, see http://www.avionicsmall.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&prod ucts_id=8161 This nifty puppy will save space by incorporating a switch and circuit breaker into one unitat comparable cost to a switch and klixon breaker. However, when reading the performance specs,(click on the data sheet tab here http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=655-W31-X2M1G-5) it looks to be very slow acting at the current flows that we are dealing with. I would think that we want an overload to be shut own within seconds not minutes. Even at a response time of 10 seconds, the amount of overload would have to be 150-250% of rated value ( I suppose dependant on ambient temperature). I don't think this is acceptable for an aircraft, do you? This is why I wonder what the Klixon's response times are. Maybe they are no better. I'm pretty sure that an ATO type fuse will be lightning fast at 150% overload, no? I look forward to you comments. Thanks Bevan -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:16 AM PST US From: "Joe Ronco" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs BEVAN: I don't know if this is what you are looking for but try this link. http://www.sensata.com/products/controls/acb.htm They also have a catalog that you can download. Hope this helps. Joe R From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs Bob, et al I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this case). I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc. Can you suggest a source? I'm beginning to think Klixon is not a manufacture's name but just a product name. Still, I should be able to find performance specs online though, no? Relevance: Due to space and design goals, I am incorporating fuse blocks and some breakers (Klixon) into my panel (RV7A). However, I have just recently discovered another type of breaker that I'm sure you're aware of, namely the switch/breaker, see http://www.avionicsmall.com/index.php?main_page=product_info &cPath=189&products_id=8161 This nifty puppy will save space by incorporating a switch and circuit breaker into one unit at comparable cost to a switch and klixon breaker. However, when reading the performance specs, (click on the data sheet tab here http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=655-W31-X2M1G-5 ) it looks to be very slow acting at the current flows that we are dealing with. I would think that we want an overload to be shut own within seconds not minutes. Even at a response time of 10 seconds, the amount of overload would have to be 150-250% of rated value ( I suppose dependant on ambient temperature). I don't think this is acceptable for an aircraft, do you? This is why I wonder what the Klixon's response times are. Maybe they are no better. I'm pretty sure that an ATO type fuse will be lightning fast at 150% overload, no? I look forward to you comments. Thanks Bevan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:11 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Heavy Duty E-Bis Diode From: "Eric M. Jones" > I'm putting together my Relay and just noticed that your Z 32 diagram for the Heavy Duty E-Bus relay uses a IN4001 Diode. When I ordered my relay from B&C a month or 2 ago, they supplied me with the IN5400 Diode which corresponds to their diagram..... > My question is: Is it critical that I use the IN4001 Diode for my Heavy > Duty E-Bus configuration or can I use the 5400? Thanks, Henry By the way....that's ONE N5400 not EYE N5400. You should use bidirectional Zeners anyway.... -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217509#217509 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:39 PM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: AeroElectric-List: Does the Alternator shut down if battery power is removed? Given an alternator and an LR3 controller, with the engine running, will the alternator shut down if the battery master is switched off? I'm guessing that the alternator will continue to function normally since it's still self-exciting the field line. Shutting down the alternator would require pulling the field breaker. Is that correct? Thanks Bill Watson RV10 with a Z-14 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:54 PM PST US From: D Fritz Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12/24V systems12/24V systems Bob and Bruce, Thanks for the helpful advice. - Ben, This probably isn't the right forum for bashing your competition in engine development and production. - dan=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:38 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs Thanks for the replies. Exactly what I'm looking for. Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Ronco Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:53 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: breaker specs BEVAN: I don't know if this is what you are looking for but try this link. http://www.sensata.com/products/controls/acb.htm They also have a catalog that you can download. Hope this helps. Joe R ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:36 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12/24V systems12/24V systems I Guess the key word there is "production".. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- D Fritz wrote: Bob and Bruce,Thanks for the helpful advice. Ben,This probably isn't the right forum for bashing your competition in engine development and prod uction. dan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ____________________________________________________________ Domain Registration - Click Here http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Smzqaf5lZN8RGjfzHM zWHv3cekQldz7HmYYgEOqBC2A1HT/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.