AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 12/14/08


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:23 AM - Re: Crimping Butt Splices (Henry Trzeciakowski)
     2. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Crimping Butt Splices (Robert McCallum)
     3. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Crimping Butt Splices (Dan Brown)
     4. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: Crimping Butt Splices (Henry Trzeciakowski)
     5. 12:17 PM - Re: Master Switch (Henry Trzeciakowski)
     6. 12:32 PM - Re: Need for start-up protection? (tommuller2000)
     7. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Crimping Butt Splices (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 04:39 PM - Transformer (off subject) (jaybannist@cs.com)
     9. 05:18 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (Ron Quillin)
    10. 06:06 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (jaybannist@cs.com)
    11. 06:36 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (Bob White)
    12. 06:39 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (Vern Little)
    13. 06:39 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (earl_schroeder@juno.com)
    14. 06:39 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 06:49 PM - Re: Need for Start-Up Protection (Michael Forhan)
    16. 06:54 PM - Re: Transformer (off subject) (jaybannist@cs.com)
    17. 11:05 PM - Re: Need for Start-Up Protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:23:28 AM PST US
    From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Crimping Butt Splices
    Bob: This may seem like a rather silly question, but what type of crimper do I use to crimp butt splices......I've looked thru your website, looked at terminaltown's website and even "googled" this questions and can't find anything regarding what type of crimper is used....just instructions of how to do it. Thanks Henry


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:41:24 AM PST US
    From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Re: Crimping Butt Splices
    Henry; Different Bob, but a butt splice is no different than any other type of wire terminal. Same crimper you would use for say a fast-on or ring, just that you have two crimps, one on each end instead of just one. Bob McC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimping Butt Splices <hammer408@comcast.net> > > Bob: > > This may seem like a rather silly question, but what type of crimper do I > use to crimp butt splices......I've looked thru your website, looked at > terminaltown's website and even "googled" this questions and can't find > anything regarding what type of crimper is used....just instructions of how > to do it. > > Thanks > > Henry > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:51:19 AM PST US
    From: "Dan Brown" <dan@familybrown.org>
    Subject: Re: Crimping Butt Splices
    Quoting "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net>: > This may seem like a rather silly question, but what type of crimper do I > use to crimp butt splices......I've looked thru your website, looked at Pretty much any type will do, if you're talking about the splices like these: http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/page98.html A good choice is a ratcheting tool like the ones here: http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/EclipseCrimpTools.html -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring." -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:13:16 PM PST US
    From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Crimping Butt Splices
    Bob: I just tried is on my fuseble link and it worked like a charm !! Thanks Henry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 8:37 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimping Butt Splices <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca> > > Henry; > > Different Bob, but a butt splice is no different than any other type of wire > terminal. Same crimper you would use for say a fast-on or ring, just that > you have two crimps, one on each end instead of just one. > > Bob McC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:26 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimping Butt Splices > > > <hammer408@comcast.net> > > > > Bob: > > > > This may seem like a rather silly question, but what type of crimper do I > > use to crimp butt splices......I've looked thru your website, looked at > > terminaltown's website and even "googled" this questions and can't find > > anything regarding what type of crimper is used....just instructions of > how > > to do it. > > > > Thanks > > > > Henry > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:17:06 PM PST US
    From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Master Switch
    Bob: I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do have a question: I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly: #2 - to battery contactor #5 - to 5 Amp CB #1 - to ground #4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"... Thanks Henry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Brown" <dan@familybrown.org> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 8:50 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimping Butt Splices > > Quoting "Henry Trzeciakowski" <hammer408@comcast.net>: > > > This may seem like a rather silly question, but what type of crimper do I > > use to crimp butt splices......I've looked thru your website, looked at > > Pretty much any type will do, if you're talking about the splices like these: > > http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/page98.html > > A good choice is a ratcheting tool like the ones here: > > http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/EclipseCrimpTools.html > > -- > Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org > "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the > more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring." > -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:32:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Need for start-up protection?
    From: "tommuller2000" <tommuller@fairpoint.net>
    I have dual Dynons (D100 / D120) and the IC-200 com radio and faced the same issue. Since I need the D120 engine information before startup and don't need the radio, I put most of my radios on the avionics master, but the Dynons on the primary master. Once the engine is running, I turn on the avionics master in the same checklist item as the strobes, position lights and (if needed) the landing lights. Since it is also hardened, the Garmin 496 is on the primary master. That way I can program my destination and check the weather without burning any avgas! I agree that system design is better than airmanship. I tried to make my airplane as idiot proof as possible for the times when I am an idiot. Adding unneccessary cockpit load merely detracts from safety. -------- Tom Muller RV-9A, flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219331#219331


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:31:00 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Crimping Butt Splices
    At 12:26 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: ><hammer408@comcast.net> > >Bob: > >This may seem like a rather silly question, but what type of crimper do I >use to crimp butt splices......I've looked thru your website, looked at >terminaltown's website and even "googled" this questions and can't find >anything regarding what type of crimper is used....just instructions of how >to do it. > >Thanks Successful use of ANY wire termination device that functions by "mashing" begs understanding with respect to designed wire size along with dimensions and shape of the finished joint. A huge range splices are offered that speak to joining wires with equally large array of design goals. This is why I've focused the majority of my suggestions for crimp-on terminations on a small constellation of products embraced for decades by the type certificated aircraft industry. I've written at length about the AMP PIDG (Pre-Insulated Diamond Grip) devices which are part of the Mil-T-7928, Type II family of products offered by dozens of capable manufacturers. I did comic book . . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html . . . that compared two tools suited for application of devices in this family of terminals . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/s816p.jpg which includes knife and butt splices . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/knife_splice_1.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/PIDG-Splices.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/ksplc2.jpg Now, just because someone says, "My terminal is (better/ same) as the other guy's terminal does not make it so. Here's a low cost terminal I evaluated some years ago with the notion of offering them as alternatives to the AMP PIDG terminals . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/JST_Samples_2.jpg Electrically, these terminals went on well using tools already on hand for installing PIDG devices . . . but you can see the difference in how the insulation grip was treated. Needless to say, I didn't switch my inventory to offer these devices. In terms of butt-splice alternatives, there's a host of options. We looked at these critters a few weeks ago . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/Krimpa-Seal_Butt_Splice.jpg Crimped splices with built-in heat-shrink jackets. Pretty cool. Worked good. Will last a long time . . . but DO NOT apply well with PIDG rated tools. Here's a cut and paste from a message I posted some time back that suggests a tooling-independent technique for joining wires: -------- start of excerpt ------------------ We know that solder sleeves have a wide following in aviation and other venues for splicing wires. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/619/628.pdf http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/406%20Solder%20Sleeves.html http://www.raychem.com/US/datasheets/REVISED32004/Sec_8/8-006_8-011_SolderSleeve.pdf So, if we can get past the ol' saw about "make it mechanically secure and then solder for electrical integrity", how about this? http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_1.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_3.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_4.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/PM_SS_Splice/PM_Solder_Sleeve_5.jpg This technique provides equivalent mechanical and electrical integrity with your ordinary hand tools for a lot less cost than pe-fabricated solder sleeves and splices. The only edge I can see for solder sleeves is the sealant included in each end of the sleeve . . . I'll suggest that the technique described meets our needs nicely for a fraction of the cost. Bulk of the slice is small too. However, if you're splicing a bundle of multiple wires, it's still a good idea to stagger the splice locations along the bundle. ----------- end of excerpt --------- Sorry if this seems like a data dump from a big bucket but I think this illustrates the potential for error in communication by limiting your query to "butt splices" when it comes to tooling. It's important to know the style of the splice for the purpose of offering suitable tools. ASSUMING that you're wanting to install these guys . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Terminals/AMP_PIDG_Splices.jpg you use the same tool as the other PIDG devices illustrated above. But consider adding the lap-soldered splices covered with heat-shrink to your bag-of-tricks. They're lower cost, smaller volume, and just as reliable as the PIDG splices and even NASA approved. See section 19 of . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/NASA/NASA-STD-8739p4c4.pdf . . . and know that there's a lot of options available to you for joining wires in your airplane. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:39:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Transformer (off subject)
    From: jaybannist@cs.com
    Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from building my panel.? My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely accessible) wall outlet.? The transformer is 120V, 80W.? Can I safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:18:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com>
    I should certainly think so. If that transformer draws anywhere near 15A that's a powerful big train. Do make sure the terminals are not accessible. Ron Q. At 16:38 12/14/2008, you wrote: >From: jaybannist@cs.com > >Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical >question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from >building my panel. My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have >an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely >accessible) wall outlet. The transformer is 120V, 80W. Can I >safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? > >Jay in Dallas


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:06:35 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    From: jaybannist@cs.com
    Thanks, Ron.? I plan to make an accessory box for the switch.? - Jay -----Original Message----- From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 7:17 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transformer (off subject) I should certainly think so. If that transformer draws anywhere near 15A that's a powerful big train. Do make sure the terminals are not accessible. Ron Q. At 16:38 12/14/2008, you wrote: From: jaybannist@cs.com Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from building my panel.? My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely accessible) wall outlet.? The transformer is 120V, 80W.? Can I safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? Jay in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:36:08 PM PST US
    From: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    If you are putting the switch on the 110V side of the transformer, be sure you put the switch on the 'hot' side. (Probably a black wire inside the wall fixture.) If the switch is going on the train side, it won't matter too much which wire, but the transformer will still be pulling a little current. Bob W. On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:59:04 -0500 jaybannist@cs.com wrote: > > Thanks, Ron.? I plan to make an accessory box for the switch.? - Jay > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 7:17 pm > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transformer (off subject) > > > > > > > > > > > > I should certainly think so. > > If that transformer draws anywhere near 15A that's a powerful big > train. > > Do make sure the terminals are not accessible. > > > Ron Q. > > At 16:38 12/14/2008, you wrote: > > > From: jaybannist@cs.com > > > Pleas pardon the diversion, > but I have a Christmas electrical question: I have a bunch of left-over > Carling toggle switches from building my panel.? My grandkid's toy > train transformer doesn't have an on-off switch so it has to be > un-plugged at the (barely accessible) wall outlet.? The transformer > is 120V, 80W.? Can I safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch > on one leg of the power line? > > > Jay in Dallas > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:39:00 PM PST US
    From: "Vern Little" <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    Yes, if you turn off the power first! Seriously, you want to switch the "Hot" wire. This is the one that goes to the narrow tab on your wall plug-in. If you look at the plug in, you'll notice that the two parallel tabs are different sizes (if you home was built in the last few decades). The narrow tab is the wire that you want to switch. I don't know if Bob has a reference drawing for this, though. A purist would also put an in-line fuse. Vern ----- Original Message ----- From: jaybannist@cs.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transformer (off subject) Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from building my panel. My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely accessible) wall outlet. The transformer is 120V, 80W. Can I safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? Jay in Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:39:15 PM PST US
    From: "earl_schroeder@juno.com" <earl_schroeder@juno.com>
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    Hi Jay, another thing worth considering is to use the switch to 'break' the hot side of the line (if it is a single pole type). This would prevent a possible shocking experience for someone who finds a 'ground' to complete the circuit. We love our Grand Children. Earl Merry Christmas! At 16:38 12/14/2008, you wrote: > From: jaybannist@cs.com > > Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from building my panel. My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely accessible) wall outlet. The transformer is 120V, 80W. Can I safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? > > Jay in Dallas


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:39:24 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    At 06:38 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: >Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical >question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from >building my panel. My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have >an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely >accessible) wall outlet. The transformer is 120V, 80W. Can I >safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? Absolutely. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:49:44 PM PST US
    From: Michael Forhan <ohioip@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Need for Start-Up Protection
    Bob- My apologies for my previous digest post. That was only my second post, so I'm still learning the ropes! I'm more of a listener than a talker. With regard to your questions, I would like to provide you with specific details, test data and analyses of the products and the airframes that I alluded to, but I do not wish to "throw" the OEM avionics mfr. or the airframers "under the bus" to support what is, in the end, nothing more than my personal design philosophy. Besides, such a discussion would inevitably devolve into a narrowly-focused critique relating to specific situations rather than a discussion of the merits of a general design philosophy (i.e., whether or not to incorporate an avionics master switch). In a way, I believe you made my point for me. You stated that your livelihood includes investigating "unanticipated characteristics" and failures to meet design goals. It is well-known that such characteristics and design failures are often not discovered until a product is fielded and problems arise in service. I personally prefer to assume the system-reliability risk of of an avionics master switch as a safeguard against such potential issues, even if the extent of the risk of equipment damage is unquantified. And for the record, I was not trying to "persuade" anyone, instill "fear" of "imagined" issues, nor prove you wrong. I apologize if I did not clearly convey my thoughts. I was merely stating that there are two schools of thought on the subject, both having (IMHO) valid points, and sharing why I elected to utilize an avionics master switch. Bob, I feel I must share with you that the tenor of your response has made me more hesitant to express my thoughts in the future. I'm telling you this not as a complaint, but rather as honest feedback. Best Regards, Mike


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:54:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transformer (off subject)
    From: jaybannist@cs.com
    Vern,? That's exactly what I need to know.? Now I don't need that Z-drawing !? Thanks - Jay -----Original Message----- From: Vern Little <rv-9a-online@telus.net> Sent: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 7:29 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transformer (off subject) Yes, if you turn off the power first! ? Seriously, you want to switch the "Hot" wire.? This is the one that goes to the narrow tab on your wall plug-in.? If you look at the plug in, you'll notice that the two parallel tabs are different sizes (if you home was built in the last few decades).? The narrow tab is the wire that you want to switch. ? I don't know if Bob has a reference drawing for this, though.? A purist would also put an in-line fuse. ? Vern ----- Original Message ----- From: jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:38 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transformer (off subject) Pleas pardon the diversion, but I have a Christmas electrical question: I have a bunch of left-over Carling toggle switches from building my panel.? My grandkid's toy train transformer doesn't have an on-off switch so it has to be un-plugged at the (barely accessible) wall outlet.? The transformer is 120V, 80W.? Can I safely use a Carling 15A, 125VAC 3/4HP switch on one leg of the power line? Jay in Dallas Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:05:08 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Need for Start-Up Protection
    At 08:49 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: > >Bob- > >My apologies for my previous digest post. That was only my second >post, so I'm still learning the ropes! I'm more of a listener than a talker. No problem . . . just a gentle nudge . . . >With regard to your questions, I would like to provide you with >specific details, test data and analyses of the products and the >airframes that I alluded to, but I do not wish to "throw" the OEM >avionics mfr. or the airframers "under the bus" to support what is, >in the end, nothing more than my personal design >philosophy. Besides, such a discussion would inevitably devolve >into a narrowly-focused critique relating to specific situations >rather than a discussion of the merits of a general design >philosophy (i.e., whether or not to incorporate an avionics master switch). > >In a way, I believe you made my point for me. You stated that your >livelihood includes investigating "unanticipated characteristics" >and failures to meet design goals. It is well-known that such >characteristics and design failures are often not discovered until a >product is fielded and problems arise in service. I personally >prefer to assume the system-reliability risk of of an avionics >master switch as a safeguard against such potential issues, even if >the extent of the risk of equipment damage is unquantified. > >And for the record, I was not trying to "persuade" anyone, instill >"fear" of "imagined" issues, nor prove you wrong. I apologize if I >did not clearly convey my thoughts. I was merely stating that there >are two schools of thought on the subject, both having (IMHO) valid >points, and sharing why I elected to utilize an avionics master switch. > >Bob, I feel I must share with you that the tenor of your response >has made me more hesitant to express my thoughts in the future. I'm >telling you this not as a complaint, but rather as honest feedback. Point taken and many have expressed similar feelings. Please understand that my role here is illuminator of physics and a random access repository for repeatable experiments that have served aviation well for longer than my own decades of participation in the craft. I'm not happy to be proven wrong . . . because it brings forward an error in my thinking (and teaching) that begs immediate rectification. So while not delighted to discover errors, I am grateful when it happens. So please don't read emotions or intent into my words that is not specifically expressed . . . I know this is difficult with only the printed word for communication. Alternative "schools of thought" are not useful teaching tools unless they are part of a revelation of simple-ideas, data gathered, and demonstrated repeatable experiments. For example, it was suggested recently that Transorbs be used downstream of a fuse or breaker to protect some appliance from an over voltage condition. This idea has surfaced here on the list in times past and was shown to be in error after the capabilities of Transorbs (designed to stand off low energy spikes) was shown insufficient to stand off a high energy ov event with an additional expectation of opening the up-stream circuit breaker. I asked the individual to recommend a part number of Transorb for this purpose. I intended to show an energy analysis for the n'th time that would tell us how this part could not be expected to block stresses it was being asked to protect against . . . stresses that either don't exist or are easily managed by tried-and-true recipes for success. My mission here is to assist 1800 readers (mostly neophyte builders) in making decisions based on the collective experiences of myself and many others who have made a living in this business for decades. Any 'push back' you might perceived about your feelings on the topic was not an attempt to persuade you of anything. It was intended to remind everyone that there are reasons to do things based on logic, science and repeatable experiments . . . and there are reasons to do things because they make us feel better. I have no personal interest in anyone's informed decision for any feature they choose to incorporate in their project. However, I will do my best to assist them in BEING INFORMED. My customers don't pay my exorbitant fees to feel better. They expect (and I offer) the best I know how to do based on data and experiences I have at my disposal. I'll be pleased to update that advice when offered new data. Yeah, there ARE fielded products that missed established design goals. But is it our duty as consumers to discover those errors and kick them back up the supply chain . . . or should we modify our behavior (and our designs) to accommodate the POSSIBILITIES so that poor designs get pampered/ tolerated and perhaps never discovered? I'm sorry if you don't share my faith in the skill and integrity of myself and fellow engineers to do our homework. But folks are paying me/us good fees because we do our homework and pretty much expect our associates in the field to do their homework too. The consequences for missing the mark should be levied on US and not upon the consumers of our work-product. Now, we're probably making this more complicated than it needs to be. Let's do the reversed hypothetical: How would you modify a starter/ alternator/battery combination such that it could be predicted to produce stresses that exceed industry design goals for the accessories powered by the system? If you're feeling good for accommodating potential "accidents of design" that produce a non-compliant condition . . . how much of a problem is it to purposefully design a non-compliant system? What would you propose we hammer, bend, break or otherwise modify some component to produce a system that's hazardous to its appliances? I think this is exercise useful to demonstrate that no PURPOSEFUL way exists that demonstrates or mimics anyone's ACCIDENT. In other words, it's so easy to do this one right that worrying about doing it wrong is unworthy of concern. As I mentioned earlier, I've never asked any customer of mine to turn off my gizmo to protect it from anything the airplane can be expected to throw at it. I've never had a customer bring me a box of smoked junk because I missed the design goal. It's not a big deal. Bob . . .




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