---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/16/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:35 AM - To Z12 or not to Z12, that is the question. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 07:47 AM - Hall Effect Sensor Installation (TJPackard) 3. 08:01 AM - Radio Problem (Walt Shipley) 4. 08:16 AM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor Installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:54 AM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor Installation () 6. 09:39 AM - Re: Dual ignition power sourcing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 10:01 AM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor Installation (Ken) 8. 12:14 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor Installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 01:21 PM - Nav Lights? Was: Filtered Buck-Puck LED Drivers (Ralph Finch) 10. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch (Henry Trzeciakowski) 11. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch (Charlie England) 12. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch (jaybannist@cs.com) 13. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch (Carlos Trigo) 14. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch (jaybannist@cs.com) 15. 02:56 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor Installation (currydon@bellsouth.net) 16. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch (Carlos Trigo) 17. 04:35 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor Installation (David M) 18. 06:44 PM - Hall Effect Sensor (David M) 19. 10:18 PM - Re: Hall Effect Sensor (David M) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: To Z12 or not to Z12, that is the question. >Comments/Questions: Bob a couple of years ago I emailed you >requesting information on the Z-14 for my RV-7. Your response was >that it may be "overkill" for my airplane. The airplane has a 60 >amp main, belt driven alternator and a 20 amp standby alternator, >both from B & C. It has one battery. It'll have back-up batteries >for the EFIS, GPS and a TruTrak ADI. Now I'm trying to decide >between Z-12 and Z-13/20. As I understand your wiring diagrams, >Z-12 basically runs off the main alternator, with the standby ready >in case voltage from the main drops below a certain level and then >it (the standby) takes over. Whereas Z-13/20 utilizes the standby >to power an endurance bus, which in turns runs a series of backup >instruments and needed lights, flaps, etc. Am I correct? No. ENDURANCE speaks to minimizing loads on a limited power resource (battery and perhaps battery + 8A alternator) for the purpose of having an electrical endurance that is equal to or greater than flight endurance as established by remaining fuel. This means the E-bus is configured first with those items most useful for HOURS of flight while the airport of intended destination gets closer. It's NOT an emergency bus . . . it's the bus that keeps a maintenance item (crapped alternator) from becoming an emergency. It has a secondary role of keeping a contactor failure from becoming an emergency also by offering dual power paths to e-bus powered equipment. Z-13/20 was a bad dream. I'm sorry I published it. It was removed from the website and will be removed from subsequent print documents. My recommendation is that you go with Z-12 as published. With this abundance of secondary engine-driven power, you don't need much of a plan-B . . .just start turning things off until the SD-20 "overload" light goes out. If you can't make it home on 20A of snort, you've got too much stuff in your airplane. The system you describe has back-ups to back-ups to the extent that it makes a rational failure mode effects analysis problematic . . . not necessarily a bad thing . . . just something of an exercise in feather-chasing. Don't put flaps on the e-bus. Review the archives for e-bus discussions. The real value of the e-bus speaks to battery-only endurance . . . an instance that is exceedingly unlikely in your airplane. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:38 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation From: "TJPackard" GRT's EIS has a Hall Effect sensor that can be used to sense battery current or Alternator output. Which is the preferred installation,and what are the pros/cons of either one. TJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219596#219596 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:17 AM PST US From: "Walt Shipley" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Problem Bob, I have an Apollo SL-30 NavCom in my Rv-8 which has a rather unique (to me, anyway) problem. On the ground, even with the engine running at high RPM, the radio works flawlessly. In the air it's a different story - as soon as I take off, a loud background noise begins which makes receiving transmissions nearly impossible. Usually, sometime during the flight, this noise goes away and the reception is crystal clear. I have a belly mounted Comant bent whip antenna. Coax connections are tight. Any ideas of what the problem might be? Thanks, Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation At 09:45 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote: > >GRT's EIS has a Hall Effect sensor that can be used to sense battery >current or Alternator output. Which is the preferred >installation,and what are the pros/cons of either one. >TJ Ammeters have virtually no useful purpose as a flight systems management device. They're mostly useful for diagnostics . . . something that should be accomplished on the ground. The choice for architecture is not a very critical consideration. It's only important that you understand the significance of the readings offered at the location you choose. Cessnas favored battery ammeters for years, everyone else liked alternator load meters. Either one performs a useful duty. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation From: Speaking of Hall Effect stuff, I just purchased two LightSpeed III hall effect ignition modules. The mfg says to connect the + side of the controller through a pull-able breaker then directly to the battery terminal. Ok, that covers their insurance folks if I crash. On the other hand I am using Z-13 and was thinking of using the same scenario but connecting them to the main battery bus using an ATC fuse and skipping the breaker. I was never a proponent of having extra wires hanging off the + side of the battery terminal. AS in Z-13 I will have a switch to turn them on/off as necessary. Has anyone wired up two of these and which method did you use. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:16 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation At 09:45 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote: > >GRT's EIS has a Hall Effect sensor that can be used to sense battery >current or Alternator output. Which is the preferred >installation,and what are the pros/cons of either one. >TJ Ammeters have virtually no useful purpose as a flight systems management device. They're mostly useful for diagnostics . . . something that should be accomplished on the ground. The choice for architecture is not a very critical consideration. It's only important that you understand the significance of the readings offered at the location you choose. Cessnas favored battery ammeters for years, everyone else liked alternator load meters. Either one performs a useful duty. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:16 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Dual ignition power sourcing At 10:52 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote: > >Speaking of Hall Effect stuff, I just purchased two LightSpeed III hall >effect ignition modules. The mfg says to connect the + side of the >controller through a pull-able breaker then directly to the battery >terminal. Ok, that covers their insurance folks if I crash. On the other >hand I am using Z-13 and was thinking of using the same scenario but >connecting them to the main battery bus using an ATC fuse and skipping >the breaker. I was never a proponent of having extra wires hanging off >the + side of the battery terminal. AS in Z-13 I will have a switch to >turn them on/off as necessary. > >Has anyone wired up two of these and which method did you use. Is this really a useful question? We can hypothesize a dozen variations on a theme for wiring up these products. How do you select valuable information from them? Throw darts? Go with the guy who is most persuasive in describing his particular selection of architectures? On the TC side of the house, these kinds of questions are fed to the Failure Mode Effects Analysis machine in all combinations looking for the highest probability of comfortable termination of flight. Connecting BOTH systems to the same power source (no doubt under the same bolt head!) does not speak well of the writer's thought processes. Loss of an always-hot battery bus wired as suggested in the Z-figures is a very rare event. Even so, it's not unreasonable to consider running one ignition from the battery-bus and the other from the main bus. Of course you need switches to control them . . . and fuses are perfectly reasonable alternatives to breakers . . . ESPECIALLY breakers on the panel that are wired to the battery(+) terminal with a long, always-hot feeder wire. This scenario also addresses the notion that electrically dependent engines should get enough energy from the battery bus to insure operations with the battery-master and alternator turned off. You have two of these things, either will run the engine just fine by itself. There's no high-probability, single- failure that leaves you without sparks. It's sad to observe that so many fabricators of accessories for aircraft are so ignorant of their function in the constellation of flight system components. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:45 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation It's a bit of a stretch but in some circumstances a loadmeter can be useful for discovering a problem: -did the boost pump really start? -are all the nav lights on or is a bulb burned out? -I smell something odd, is something drawing excess current? Ken Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 09:45 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote: >> >> >> GRT's EIS has a Hall Effect sensor that can be used to sense battery >> current or Alternator output. Which is the preferred installation,and >> what are the pros/cons of either one. >> TJ > > Ammeters have virtually no useful purpose as a flight > systems management device. They're mostly useful for > diagnostics . . . something that should be accomplished > on the ground. The choice for architecture is not > a very critical consideration. It's only important that > you understand the significance of the readings offered > at the location you choose. Cessnas favored battery > ammeters for years, everyone else liked alternator > load meters. Either one performs a useful duty. > > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:16 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation At 11:59 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote: > >It's a bit of a stretch but in some circumstances a loadmeter can be >useful for discovering a problem: >-did the boost pump really start? >-are all the nav lights on or is a bulb burned out? >-I smell something odd, is something drawing excess current? Point well taken . . . and I'll admit that my earlier comments were made while visions of what has passed for "electrical instrumentation" in years gone by were foremost in my thoughts . . . http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Instruments/bat_ammeter.jpg http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Instruments/loadmeter.jpg You're quite right that if your current measuring device has the necessary resolution, it COULD be used for in-flight or pre-flight validations as suggested. However, if one has LED position lights, detecting one malfunctioning fixture out of three may still be problematic. I think if I had an engine that needed actively pumped source of fuel, a fuel pressure gage would be part of the instrumentation too. If I smelled smoke, this gray-haired ol' sniffer of many failures could decide if it was petroleum fed or some tortured electrical component. If a builder understands what the instrument is capable of showing and finds it's useful to build it into checklists then by all means. The digital displays offer the most promise for such utility. I've never flown behind digital displays of current so I'll beg some indulgence for the 20 year old thought processes. Thanks for rattling the cage! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:12 PM PST US From: "Ralph Finch" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Nav Lights? Was: Filtered Buck-Puck LED Drivers I'm reviving this thread just to ask what LED Nav lights will work with this driver? Specifically looking for an RV-9 wingtip. I guess there are several companies making Nav lights, would like to know what people have tried. Thanks, Ralph Finch Davis, CA RV-9A QB ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:27 PM PST US From: "Henry Trzeciakowski" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch Bob: I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR. If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip the switch to keyway down? Sorry for my confusion ? Henry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:03 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch > > At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: > > > > > >Bob: > > > >I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my > >master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do have a > >question: > > > >I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly: > > > >#2 - to battery contactor > >#5 - to 5 Amp CB > >#1 - to ground > >#4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator > > > >Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"... > > That's what the diagrams show. It should work. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:38 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch. (Slide switches are different animals, obviously.) Charlie Henry Trzeciakowski wrote: > Bob: > > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR. > > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip > the switch to keyway down? > > Sorry for my confusion ? > > Henry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:03 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch > > > >> > > >> At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Bob: >>> >>> I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my >>> master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do >>> > have a > >>> question: >>> >>> I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly: >>> >>> #2 - to battery contactor >>> #5 - to 5 Amp CB >>> #1 - to ground >>> #4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator >>> >>> Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"... >>> >> That's what the diagrams show. It should work. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> ----------------------------------------) >> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) >> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) >> ( appearance of being right . . . ) >> ( ) >> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch From: jaybannist@cs.com I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up.? When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward.? I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down.? All worked correctly after that. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 3:54 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch ? I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch.? ? (Slide switches are different animals, obviously.)? ? Charlie? ? Henry Trzeciakowski wrote:? > Bob:? >? > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears? > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be? > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY? > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.? >? > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to? > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip? > the switch to keyway down?? >? > Sorry for my confusion ?? >? > Henry? >? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" ? > To: ? > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:03 PM? > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch? >? >? > >> > ? > >> At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote:? >> >>> ? >>>? >>> Bob:? >>>? >>> I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my? >>> master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do? >>> > have a? > >>> question:? >>>? >>> I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly:? >>>? >>> #2 - to battery contactor? >>> #5 - to 5 Amp CB? >>> #1 - to ground? >>> #4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator? >>>? >>> Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"...? >>> >> That's what the diagrams show. It should work.? >>? >>? >> Bob . . .? >>? >> ----------------------------------------)? >> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )? >> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )? >> ( appearance of being right . . . )? >> ( )? >> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )? >> ----------------------------------------? >>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >>? >> >>? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >>? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >>? >>? >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>? >> ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:55 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch What is the =93keyway=94 of a switch? Carlos _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up. When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward. I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down. All worked correctly after that. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 3:54 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch. (Slide switches are different animals, obviously.) Charlie Henry Trzeciakowski wrote: > Bob: > > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR. > > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip > the switch to keyway down? > > Sorry for my confusion ? > > Henry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:03 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch > > >> > > >> At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> Bob: >>> >>> I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my >>> master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do >>> > have a > >>> question: >>> >>> I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly: >>> >>> #2 - to battery contactor >>> #5 - to 5 Amp CB >>> #1 - to ground >>> #4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator >>> >>> Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"... >>> >> That's what the diagrams show. It should work. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> ----------------------------------------) >> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) >> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) >> ( appearance of being right . . . ) >> ( ) >> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >> _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch From: jaybannist@cs.com There is a groove in the threaded barrel of the switch.=C2- That groove i s the keyway. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Trigo Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 4:23 pm Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch What is the =9Ckeyway=9D of a switch? =C2- Carlos =C2- =C2- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannis t@cs.com Sent: ter=C3=A7a-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch =C2- I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up.=C2- When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switch es were backward.=C2- I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down.=C2- All worked correctly after that. Jay in Dallas =C2- =C2- -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 3:54 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England =C2- =C2- I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with w as to 'make' th e contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label p late matched to the switch.=C2- =C2- (Slide switches are different animals, obviously.)=C2- =C2- Charlie=C2- =C2- Henry Trzeciakowski wrote:=C2- > Bob:=C2- >=C2- > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. With the keyway up, it appears=C2- > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be=C2- > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY=C2- > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR.=C2- >=C2- > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to=C2- > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip=C2- > the switch to keyway down?=C2- >=C2- > Sorry for my confusion ?=C2- >=C2- > Henry=C2- >=C2- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =C2- > To: =C2- > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:03 PM=C2- > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch=C2- >=C2- >=C2- Nuckolls, III"=C2- >> > =C2- > >> At 05:20 PM=2 012/14/2008, you wrote:=C2- Trzeciakowski"=C2- >>> =C2- >>>=C2- >>> Bob:=C2- >>>=C2- >>> I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my=C2- >>> master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do=C2- >>> > have a=C2- > >>> question:=C2- >>>=C2- >>> I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly:=C2- >>>=C2- >>> #2 - to battery contactor=C2- >>> #5 - to 5 Amp CB=C2- >>> #1 - to ground=C2- >>> #4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator=C2- >>>=C2- >>> Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"...=C2- >>> >> That's what the diagrams show. It should work.=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >> Bob . . .=C2- >>=C2- >> ----------------------------------------)=C2- >> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )=C2- >> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )=C2- >> ( appearance of being right . . . )=C2- >> ( )=C2- >> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )=C2- >> ----------------------------------------=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >> >>=C2- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=C2 - >>=C2- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =C2- >>=C2- >>=C2- >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>=C2- >> =C2- =C2- =C2- size=2 width="100%" align=center> 0A Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:16 PM PST US From: currydon@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:05 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch Thanks Jay Non-native English speaker problem solved! Carlos in Portugal P.S. ' I normally install all my DT toggle switches with the keyway facing down _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:34 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch There is a groove in the threaded barrel of the switch. That groove is the keyway. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Trigo Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 4:23 pm Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch What is the =93keyway=94 of a switch? Carlos _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: ter=E7a-feira, 16 de Dezembro de 2008 22:07 aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch I always thought that the keyway on any switch should go up. When I completed the wiring of my panel, I found that about a third of the switches were backward. I simply reversed the switches, placing the keyway down. All worked correctly after that. Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Charlie England < ceengland@bellsouth.net> aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 3:54 pm Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch ceengland@bellsouth.net> I'm not Bob, but the behavior of every toggle switch I've ever played with was to 'make' the contacts that were opposite the position of the toggle. Try to visualize the action inside the switch. The lever passes through a pivot, so when you move the lever up, it moves the 'guts' of the switch down. Keyway isn't relevant to this particular issue, except possibly for a keyed label plate matched to the switch. (Slide switches are different animals, obviously.) Charlie Henry Trzeciakowski wrote: > Bob: > > I've attached a jpeg picture of the wiring. W ith the keyway up, it appears > to me that since terminal #3 & #6 are empty that theOFF position would be > with the toggle in the up position ---the middle position would be BATTERY > ONLY and with the toggle in the down position, BATTERY & ALTERNATOR. > > If that is correct, then could I move Ground to terminal 3 and Regulator to > #6, so that the OFF position would be down, or would I be better off to flip > the switch to keyway down? > > Sorry for my confusion ? > > Henry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > To: < aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:03 PM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master Switch > > >> > < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > >> At 05:20 PM 12/14/2008, you wrote: >>> < hammer408@comcast.net> >>> >>> Bob: >>>&nb sp; >>> I've just wired my DPDT switch - (2TL-1-10) switch which I'm using as my >>> master. It is a locking switch and wired as in you Z-diagrams. I do >>> > have a > >>> question: >>> >>> I mounted the switch keyway-up and wired the terminals accordingly: >>> >>> #2 - to battery contactor >>> #5 - to 5 Amp CB >>> #1 - to ground >>> #4 - to #6 terminal on the regulator >>> >>> Is this correct, I want my OFF position to be "down"... >>> >> That's what the diagrams show. It should work. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> ----------------------------------------) >> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) >> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) >> ( appearance of being right . . . ) >> ( ) >> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> >> _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?AeroElectric-List p://forums.matronics.com _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:11 PM PST US From: "David M" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor Installation ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:43 PM PST US From: "David M" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:44 PM PST US From: "David M" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect Sensor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.